Your reputation is only as good as your last sale.
I'm really surprised PWCC would take this consignment.
Their wording could have been clearer. Sure, most here understand these are made up racks, but to someone who is new to the hobby, or a novice collector, these racks are nothing but trouble.
They're nothing but older, mid-grade cards, put together in someone's basement and using Santa to help sell them. Shame, shame.
These are basically the equivalent to those blister packs with 100+ random assortment of cards sold at Target, Walmart, etc. Only just Topps cards from '53-whenever. The originals made in 1982 where/are probably good buys, but it seems they are being produced NOW, which means they are junk. The value of all of them is tarnished because who knows if they are the original ones or the new ones.
I must be busy at work to have missed seeing this thread, LOL.
Al, thanks for posting those. I've also traded emails with Skip Mathews in the past. He is quite the character and definitely was plugged into the unopened market back in the day. I just didn't realize you went by Liz too.
My take is that the description is lacking and I'm disappointed Brent and PWCC decided to sell these on consignment. Someone new to the hobby isn't going to get that description. The pure volume with which we see these now coupled with the introduction of late '70's cards in the racks along with other sports shows that these items are a money maker. JMHO.
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting: Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
THanks Al! I remember emailing with Skip about these back when they first started showing up and he told me a similar story about how he brought the find to murphy. He did not share the info that they were packaged in 1982. I believe he told me at the time that they were made most likely in the early 70's based on the aging of the staples. Either he misinformed me or he had new information when he told you 1982. I always liked skip so I will give him the benefit of the doubt that it was new information.
Here is murphy's original ad. Tough to read but tough to miss the headline "One of the greatest unopened finds in the history of the hobby" , also He murphy does state they weren't made by topps but he clearly does NOT state when they were made by the 3rd party and there is no mention of 1982 for sure
I'm not going to lie, whenever I got back in the hobby in 2006 I saw those packs and drooled! I wasn't a member of any sort of forum or board so I had no knowledge about them. I just knew if I bought one I would pull a big hit out of the pack! I know better now.
Murphy was quite the huckster back in the day. His customer service skills were always somewhat challenged, as I recall.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The hobby/business was quite advanced in 1982 and Topps did not have returns laying around from the 50's that they were going to dump to a repackager in 1982. Nothing like this could have come out in 1982 without it being known about the time.
KB--agreed. The fact neither Murphy or Mathews could or would say who did the repacking, and specifically who retailed them, or when, or from whom they obtained them, is suspect. It would be interesting to know who initiated these and when, and if it is the same person(s) putting them out today. It is interesting to me that more has not surfaced about their initial and ongoing source. For me, it is a neat hobby mystery
The original find may have been quasi-legit as far as it went for a third party repackaged item, but I would suspect the glut of recent holiday racks is from various and completely different sources.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Sometimes I wonder why the Xmas header is used at all since it is such an obvious tell? If you're going to fabricate packs, why not just go the whole nine yards? Is it simply because the Xmas headers are easy to reproduce/ obtain?
If somebody were to "go the whole nine yards" and recreate real Topps product, they will get in serious legal trouble. If they were to make up a special 12 panel rack with a 12 Days Of Hanukkah header card, and be very vague about the year, origin, and the manufacturer of the product, they will make a lot of money and not get in any trouble.
One ebay seller really pumps this stuff out. He has Christmas Racks now for 1968-1979. He has 38 negs and 18 neutral basically calling his stuff junk, but most feedback seems positive. The header looks the same as the PWCC listings. This is the disclaimer that he uses in the 1970 that I looked at:
"1970 Topps Holiday Vintage Design Rack Pack. Contains 12 randomly inserted authentic Baseball trading cards. Pack can contain cards from any series, including stars. Back cards showing: unknown due to christmas wreath covering.
GREAT GIFT IDEA for the SPORTS COLLECTOR!
Please take Note: Holiday Rack Packs are sports cards whose vintages are exclusive one to another. They replicate standard three-chamber rack packs, but all of these were repackaged by an independent (non-Topps) entity. Uniformly, they're all presented as Christmas merchandise, but with no indication of manufacturer or retailer. All are soundly packaged with pristinely fresh retail mounting headers, and the cards contained in each of the chambers are virtually immobile. Therefore, you're unable to maneuver the contents to determine any cards other than those on the top and bottom of each chamber. It seems that each of these rack packs holds a total of twelve cards (although this can't be guaranteed). And finally, it appears that all of these cards are minimally EX-EX/MT; they originally circulated through their normal retail channels (per vintage) and then selected (on the merit of condition)."
<< <i>If somebody were to "go the whole nine yards" and recreate real Topps product, they will get in serious legal trouble. If they were to make up a special 12 panel rack with a 12 Days Of Hanukkah header card, and be very vague about the year, origin, and the manufacturer of the product, they will make a lot of money and not get in any trouble. >>
<< <i>THanks Al! I remember emailing with Skip about these back when they first started showing up and he told me a similar story about how he brought the find to murphy. He did not share the info that they were packaged in 1982. I believe he told me at the time that they were made most likely in the early 70's based on the aging of the staples. Either he misinformed me or he had new information when he told you 1982. I always liked skip so I will give him the benefit of the doubt that it was new information.
Here is murphy's original ad. Tough to read but tough to miss the headline "One of the greatest unopened finds in the history of the hobby" , also He murphy does state they weren't made by topps but he clearly does NOT state when they were made by the 3rd party and there is no mention of 1982 for sure
>>
Biggest overstatement since Custer said: "I think they're friendly indians."
I recall at some point he was tooling around in a cigarette speedboat out in SD...that was at least a decade ago.
Hard to believe at one point he was bigger than Steve Hart..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
It's disappointing that anyone would condone selling this garbage, let alone sell it themselves. I'd certainly question the credibility of anyone doing so.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Comments
I'm really surprised PWCC would take this consignment.
Their wording could have been clearer. Sure, most here understand these are made up racks, but
to someone who is new to the hobby, or a novice collector, these racks are nothing but trouble.
They're nothing but older, mid-grade cards, put together in someone's basement and using Santa to help sell them. Shame, shame.
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
Al, thanks for posting those. I've also traded emails with Skip Mathews in the past. He is quite the character and definitely was plugged into the unopened market back in the day. I just didn't realize you went by Liz too.
My take is that the description is lacking and I'm disappointed Brent and PWCC decided to sell these on consignment. Someone new to the hobby isn't going to get that description. The pure volume with which we see these now coupled with the introduction of late '70's cards in the racks along with other sports shows that these items are a money maker. JMHO.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
Here is murphy's original ad. Tough to read but tough to miss the headline "One of the greatest unopened finds in the history of the hobby" , also He murphy does state they weren't made by topps but he clearly does NOT state when they were made by the 3rd party and there is no mention of 1982 for sure
John
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>, they will get in serious legal trouble >>
It's just that I have not seen any evidence of this, unfortunately.
seems positive.
The header looks the same as the PWCC listings.
This is the disclaimer that he uses in the 1970 that I looked at:
"1970 Topps Holiday Vintage Design Rack Pack. Contains 12 randomly inserted authentic Baseball trading cards. Pack can contain cards from any series, including stars. Back cards showing: unknown due to christmas wreath covering.
GREAT GIFT IDEA for the SPORTS COLLECTOR!
Please take Note: Holiday Rack Packs are sports cards whose vintages are exclusive one to another. They replicate standard three-chamber rack packs, but all of these were repackaged by an independent (non-Topps) entity. Uniformly, they're all presented as Christmas merchandise, but with no indication of manufacturer or retailer. All are soundly packaged with pristinely fresh retail mounting headers, and the cards contained in each of the chambers are virtually immobile. Therefore, you're unable to maneuver the contents to determine any cards other than those on the top and bottom of each chamber. It seems that each of these rack packs holds a total of twelve cards (although this can't be guaranteed). And finally, it appears that all of these cards are minimally EX-EX/MT; they originally circulated through their normal retail channels (per vintage) and then selected (on the merit of condition)."
<< <i>If somebody were to "go the whole nine yards" and recreate real Topps product, they will get in serious legal trouble. If they were to make up a special 12 panel rack with a 12 Days Of Hanukkah header card, and be very vague about the year, origin, and the manufacturer of the product, they will make a lot of money and not get in any trouble. >>
Great Idea, I'm on it! Shalom!
<< <i>THanks Al! I remember emailing with Skip about these back when they first started showing up and he told me a similar story about how he brought the find to murphy. He did not share the info that they were packaged in 1982. I believe he told me at the time that they were made most likely in the early 70's based on the aging of the staples. Either he misinformed me or he had new information when he told you 1982. I always liked skip so I will give him the benefit of the doubt that it was new information.
Here is murphy's original ad. Tough to read but tough to miss the headline "One of the greatest unopened finds in the history of the hobby" , also He murphy does state they weren't made by topps but he clearly does NOT state when they were made by the 3rd party and there is no mention of 1982 for sure
Biggest overstatement since Custer said: "I think they're friendly indians."
Mark
T206 Set - 300/524
Breaking rocks in the hot sun?
<< <i>www.bbckid.com for the first time taken on 1/3/1997. Last domain update time is 6/27/2006. >>
His domain is gone.
Once in a while I used to go to his post-fire web - he was selling junk.
In the old days, I found him to be honest but lacking in affable social skills.
One of the best dealers to talk with on an extended time basis? Steve Novella.
Hard to believe at one point he was bigger than Steve Hart..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
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PWCC Christmas Rack & the winning bid is?