Do you care about die marriages?

TopographicOceans · February 23, 2015 3:10PM

I know people research them, people find them and make money selling them to collectors who pay a premium for them.

But I really don't have any interest in them.
Am I missing an important faucet of numismatics or do most people not care?

yosclimber · February 23, 2015 3:19PM

Yes.
I enjoy the clallenge of using logic to classify (identify) the die marriage for a coin.
Sort of like diagnosing a disease from a combination of symptoms, some of which may not be observable.

My dad, though, thinks they are trivial.

To each his own level of detail, of course.
After all, some people collect by type, or by year without regard to mintmark.
And some people collect die states within die marriages.

lordmarcovan · February 23, 2015 6:54PM

<< I know people research them, people find them and make money selling them to collectors who pay a premium for them.

But I really don't have any interest in them.
Am I missing an important faucet of numismatics or do most people not care? >>

I'm with you. Never have cared much about them.

But lots of people do find them interesting.

To each his own.

MrHalfDime · February 23, 2015 7:15PM

I am all about die marriages. I don't "make money selling them", but I actively collect die marriages of all half dimes, research them, and write about them when I find something new. My long term goal (for the past 30 years) has been, and remains, to assemble a uniform grade (AU-58) collection of all Capped Bust and Liberty Seated half dimes, by date, mint, die marriage, re-marriage, and even by die state. Yes, it is a sickness, but one in which I have found great enjoyment. Making order out of chaos.

As to whether "Am I missing an important faucet of numismatics", I cannot say, but apparently this faucet runs both hot and cold for different people.

BillJones · February 23, 2015 9:34PM

When I was collecting half cents by Cohen variety I cared a lot about them. Now that I am out of variety collecting not as much although they do provide a link to some very rare coins. For example some rare varieties are a combination of an obverse and a reverse that can found on more common coins. I love early half dimes, but I will never own an 1802. I do have a couple of pieces that are "half of an 1802." Reverse "C" was used for the 1801 LM-2, 1802, and 1803 LM-1 and 2 half dimes. In sense I have a few examples of half of an 1802 half dime.

winky · February 23, 2015 9:40PM

i could care less.

Sonorandesertrat · February 23, 2015 9:41PM

I think die marriages are part of the charm of older U.S. coinage. A big plus.
However, I think die states, especially coins struck from shattered dies, are even more interesting.

TomB · February 23, 2015 9:48PM

They are important to the history of US numismatics. I might be a hybrid collector and dealer of die marriages in that I have the reference material to identify many and often do identify pieces, but it is only a tangent in the overall scheme of things.

ricko · February 23, 2015 9:50PM

It is not an area of numismatics that interest me. I will say that the diligence that goes into this study is amazing.... Cheers, RickO

rkp · February 23, 2015 10:04PM

I wanted to be and tried to be a die marriage guy. It turns out that's not my thing, and am now happy to not have that facet as a part of my collecting strategy.

mbogoman · February 23, 2015 10:07PM

I don't collect them, per se, but I am aware of them and will use them on occasion to authenticate.

291fifth · February 23, 2015 10:08PM

They are probably useful for authentication purposes but otherwise very boring.

Personally, I would never pay a premium for a "rare" die marriage.

BAJJERFAN · February 23, 2015 10:08PM

The mint personnel didn't care when/at the time that the coins were struck. Same with VAMs. To the guys running the presses, it was a matter of changing worn out/defective dies, etc.

rmpsrpms · February 23, 2015 10:20PM

Die marriages can be important for variety collecting, especially if trying to identify stages of a particular variety. There are some RPMs that have several reverse dies associated, and sometimes those reverses have their own identifiable variety (ie Doubled Die). I collect certain varieties by stage, and thus die marriage, so within this niche I find die marriages interesting.

crypto79 · February 23, 2015 11:16PM

I collect the naked eye visible examples of my series (Trade Dollars). They are part of the appeal of the hand made utilitarian nature of coin production that was more of a craft & art back then that was coming to an end in American coinage towards the late 19th Cen. I will take the weak strikes, RPD, die cracks, mismatched dies and the lot over the same old same computer derived assembly line junk produced today.

coindeuce · February 23, 2015 11:17PM

I'll say yes, especially when it has involved increasing market value from 3 figures or even 2 figures up to 4 and 5 figures. Why would it hurt anyone to educate themselves ? Don't you believe in the mantra that "knowledge is power" ? Usually coins in the above cases have some significant historical perspective anyway, which is an integral facet of numismatics.

lkeigwin · February 23, 2015 11:25PM

Yes, without question, if you're a bust half nut.
Lance.

silverpop · February 23, 2015 11:46PM

no

SPalladino · February 23, 2015 11:47PM

Great thread - thoughtful responses covering a range of positions.
For me, looking for and understanding die marriages and identifying die state markers allows one to expand their collection passion beyond the surface of any given series. It seems that most rightfully think of older series when speaking of die marriages, but for me, it is the Ike series that draws my attention to understanding die marriages and identifying die state markers. I believe this endeavor drives the DIVa (Designated Ike Variety) system to be more robust. And, in a way, it draws greater parallel between the Ikes series and older series than newer, more uniformly produced series.

maibockaddict · February 24, 2015 12:09AM

Die Marriages represent opportunity if you know what to look for.

DIMEMAN · February 24, 2015 12:17AM

As a variety collector, yes I am into that area. As MrHalfDime mentioned.......it's a sickness and sometimes fatal!

lkeigwin · February 24, 2015 12:43AM

If you collect screw press era coins, when hubs were largely incomplete, then the variations among die marriages are plentiful, obvious, and full of tidbits about the early Mint and its operation. This is what makes for die marriage enjoyment. Cool coins with lots of interesting history.

Learning that a die for a later year was subsequently used for an earlier year is an "aha" moment. Dissecting overstrikes, punch blunders and die deterioration is fascinating. Studying clashes, cracks, strikes differences and the maintenance and design changes done to deal with such things can be a lot of fun. You ask yourself "how could that have happened?" And you consider Mint operation, working conditions, inconsistent process, marginal tools. Even the health of workers and the effect that diseases like yellow fever had on their lives and livelihoods.

There must have been hundreds of start-up lessons in the early years, evinced in the dies and the marriages that made these coins.

I like this stuff.
Lance.

AUandAG · February 24, 2015 12:44AM

I don't always on all series...but it seems that on Dollars it's a no brainer to do..

bob

indeetlib · February 24, 2015 12:55AM

I love 'em!

OKbustchaser · February 24, 2015 1:17AM

If I don't care about die marriages/stages then I must be even crazier than I thought to own so many 1827 halves.

CoinZip · February 24, 2015 2:36AM

I would be lost without die marriages...........

astrorat · February 24, 2015 2:36AM

I must care at least a little about die marriages ... considering the reference in my signature below!

Nothing quite as invigorating (and frustrating) as discerning die marriages in the era of hubbed design elements! Makes attributing Bust halves almost easy!

keyman64 · February 24, 2015 2:44AM

Short answer is NO.

Long answer: If a particular die marriage happens to contain a significant variety...then yes, I care about those.

CoinZip · February 24, 2015 2:47AM

<< Short answer is NO.

Long answer: If a particular die marriage happens to contain a significant variety...then yes, I care about those. >>

How about if a significant variety has 2 different die marriages? do you want both?

crypto79 · February 24, 2015 2:48AM

<< 

<< Short answer is NO.

Long answer: If a particular die marriage happens to contain a significant variety...then yes, I care about those. >>

How about if a significant variety has 2 different die marriages? do you want both? >>

I do

Yorkshireman · February 24, 2015 2:54AM

<< Die Marriages represent opportunity if you know what to look for. >>

Beyond making a few dollars to finance more of what does excite me in numismatics, I do not care.

Nap · February 24, 2015 3:05AM

I follow die marriages in 200 year old half dollars as well as 1200 year old British coins. I think they are quite interesting.

steveben · February 24, 2015 3:08AM

my opinion is that if two dies want to get married, why should i care? who am i to hinder life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

keyman64 · February 24, 2015 4:01AM

<< 

<< Short answer is NO.

Long answer: If a particular die marriage happens to contain a significant variety...then yes, I care about those. >>

How about if a significant variety has 2 different die marriages? do you want both? >>

I would lean towards no but want the rarer of the two. If it was convenient and I didn't have to tie up a bunch of extra money then maybe I would want both. Hard to say.

oih82w8 · February 24, 2015 4:19AM

When it comes to the coins I collect, I would like to know all that I can about it.

Fill that label up with info!

mr1931S · February 24, 2015 5:22AM

I care about a legitimate obverse being married,at the same instant in time-space,to a legitimate reverse on 1909-S V.D.B. pennies but that's about it.

lordmarcovan · February 25, 2015 3:03PM

<< It is not an area of numismatics that interest me. I will say that the diligence that goes into this study is amazing.... Cheers, RickO >>

True. While I personally have little interest in die variety minutiae, I do respect the people who do the studying. I may not be one of them, but I'm glad there are such people, as their interest certainly does advance our collective knowledge.

MrHalfDime · February 25, 2015 9:05PM

"How about if a significant variety has 2 different die marriages? do you want both?"

Oh my goodness, yes!!

dynamic · February 26, 2015 1:59AM

Agree with Sonorandesertrat.

I myself am interested in the struck die faces (I would have said dies, but not the actual dies themselves as I do collect the coins) and not the marriages so much.
An example: 1822 quarter has 2 varieties, B-1 more common than the pricier B-2 with over-denomination reverse. That reverse is available with a 1828 variety and
that works for me as budget does matter and I can get a nicer example with the 1828 version. I do not feel I need to fill the 1822 B-2 hole for varieties.

To expand on the comments by Sonorandesertrat; I find die states for significant changes (shattered die mentioned, sticking with quarters: ie...1796 B-2) cuds, clashing
very appealing and like to have with and without .

Barndog · February 26, 2015 2:18AM

I collect capped bust half dimes by die marriage and remarriage. That is MY THING. Love it. Enough people try to do the same thing with half dimes that I try to do so that there is a sufficiently-sized market. I can buy and I can sell, making the hobby a bit more enjoyable for me. I used to do the die stage thing, pursuing early die stages, late die stages, and sometimes the ones in between. Don't do that any longer as I prefer to focus my expenditures on the marriages and remarriages.

vplite99 · February 26, 2015 2:24AM

Whatever floats your boat. I'm a simple minded person with no interest in die marriages or even VAMs.

Baley · February 26, 2015 2:29AM

<< Agree with Sonorandesertrat.

I myself am interested in the struck die faces (I would have said dies, but not the actual dies themselves as I do collect the coins) and not the marriages so much.
An example: 1822 quarter has 2 varieties, B-1 more common than the pricier B-2 with over-denomination reverse. That reverse is available with a 1828 variety and
that works for me as budget does matter and I can get a nicer example with the 1828 version. I do not feel I need to fill the 1822 B-2 hole for varieties.

To expand on the comments by Sonorandesertrat; I find die states for significant changes (shattered die mentioned, sticking with quarters: ie...1796 B-2) cuds, clashing
very appealing and like to have with and without . >>

I'll follow up on this and say that, yes, I do collect the early quarters, up through 1828, by die variety (marriages and remarriage) and also by die state. To me, this is a very interesting study of early US numismatics, these dies were hand cut, and they wore out, broke, were switched out with various obverse and reverse combinations of a finite and identifiable and manageable number of dies and therefore coins to study.

I also collect the draped bust halves by die variety, and have made a discovery of a previously unknown obverse die, but that has been difficult to follow up in excitement, and I've focused on the quarters.

Do you care about die marriages?

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