Forms of Payment at Big Shows
Proofmorgan
Posts: 760 ✭✭✭✭✭
Hi guys,
I've been to many local shows and paid cash for items up to $1500. I do a lot of buying online for higher ticket items, as well as using contacts in other states. I've never been to a large show and I'm flying out to Baltimore next month.
I'd like to buy a 10k+ coin, but wouldn't feel comfortable bringing/ carrying around that much cash. Are there other payment methods?
I'm out of state as well, if that matters. I just can't see how some of the "big boys" would go in with 100k of cash buying some of the high end coins.
I've had dealers I didn't know accept personal checks for items before, but less than $500 and they knew I was reliable based on my profession.
Any insight?
I've been to many local shows and paid cash for items up to $1500. I do a lot of buying online for higher ticket items, as well as using contacts in other states. I've never been to a large show and I'm flying out to Baltimore next month.
I'd like to buy a 10k+ coin, but wouldn't feel comfortable bringing/ carrying around that much cash. Are there other payment methods?
I'm out of state as well, if that matters. I just can't see how some of the "big boys" would go in with 100k of cash buying some of the high end coins.
I've had dealers I didn't know accept personal checks for items before, but less than $500 and they knew I was reliable based on my profession.
Any insight?
Collector of Original Early Gold with beginnings in Proof Morgan collecting.
0
Comments
<< <i>Hi guys,
I've been to many local shows and paid cash for items up to $1500. I do a lot of buying online for higher ticket items, as well as using contacts in other states. I've never been to a large show and I'm flying out to Baltimore next month.
I'd like to buy a 10k+ coin, but wouldn't feel comfortable bringing/ carrying around that much cash. Are there other payment methods?
I'm out of state as well, if that matters. I just can't see how some of the "big boys" would go in with 100k of cash buying some of the high end coins.
I've had dealers I didn't know accept personal checks for items before, but less than $500 and they knew I was reliable based on my profession.
Any insight? >>
On-the-spot wire transfer for big transactions.
If it's a $10k+ coin you are after, a check would be best. That said, if a dealer doesn't know you then they will ask for references from other dealers that do know you. Although that doesn't always work. In that case, the dealer might ask you for the payment to be made out by check. And once the check clears, the dealer will mail you the coin.
Another method a dealer might use is a decent down-payment in cash (shows good faith) and the difference in the form of a check. Once the check clears the dealer will mail you the coin.
Hope that was a bit helpful
"Yeah. He's fine. Done business with him for years."
"OK, we'll take your check...."
I wouldnt have any real dealer references that they would care about. I mostly deal with HA, Goldberg, Stacks, and fellow collectors. Again, I'm a small (50-75 table) show person and do a lot of deals online to save money. I'm also only a couple years being real serious into the hobby. I have bought online from some dealers that would be there, but I don't think that's the same.
I've bought my proof Morgan's from HA and fellow collectors.
50% down, ID, check, and 6 figure business card.....would that work?
Now, if you show up with filthy clothes, matted hair, a dog on a chain, and drool a lot, it might be more difficult......
<< <i>Don't see why sellers wouldn't take a Paypal gift payment on the floor of a show. I would. You can do it all from your phone.
I've bought other items like this, and paid for services like that too. >>
+1 .....I've purchased coins at a show on multiple occasions this way (although I've not done a $10k transaction this way)
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
<< <i>Now, if you show up with filthy clothes, matted hair, a dog on a chain, and drool a lot, it might be more difficult...... >>
Sounds like an eccentric coin collector to me
surely a 10k coin at a major show should be no big deal
Why should a dealer trust you and your check if you can't trust them to mail you the coin after the check clears?
Just a aside benefit of doing business with a B&M that does shows or doing business at shows.
It is always best to stay with the ones you do business with!
You are in fact asking a dealer that NEVER met you to trust you.
Trust is earned!
I have NO problem using checks at a show and I am a very small dealer !
There are some dealers with whom, I've had several conversations on the boards and via PM, but have never done any business with them who I'd think would "know me" well enough from the boards alone that they'd be willing to give a reference for me. Am I right? (I ask the question in general...not specifically related to me.)
<< <i>Take 5-6 ounces of gold bullion - you can raise the cash there if needed. >>
I like this idea.
And, at that price level, for a first time customer, you can work with them on manner of shipment because they will want you as a customer.
But, they don't know you at all. They will need to protect themselves. For a coin at that level, they will need bona fide references at that price level. HA will be at the show. They provide references all the time. In fact, I have used them as references. Many years ago, a new dealer (for me) went to HA. They looked me up in the system and nodded yes. Done deal. Another time, the reference just looked at me (because he knew me) and gave the ok.
I remember my first with Steve Fisher. He knew of me, but never did business with me before. But I knew him. So I paid for the coin (by check), and told him it was ok to ship me the coin when the check cleared. He paid for shipping.
Just remember to deal with mainstream dealers with a business sizable enough that they wouldn't risk their reputation on messing with you. (They are tough on other dealers, but with retail customers they are more careful about their reputations -- especially in the Internet age.)
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>A related ancillary question, would any board members who frequent these shows be willing to give a bourse floor reference for someone from the board, with whom they've never done any business in person or online?
There are some dealers with whom, I've had several conversations on the boards and via PM, but have never done any business with them who I'd think would "know me" well enough from the boards alone that they'd be willing to give a reference for me. Am I right? (I ask the question in general...not specifically related to me.) >>
I would never give a reference of a forum member with whom I've had no real experience. The Internet is filled with people who are not quite what they appear to be.
Conversely, I've only had dealings with four non-dealer forum members, and all four I've either gotten to know, or came with references that I trust. Actually, there've been more -- but those were with folks whose payment cleared before I shipped.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Cashiers check w/ Recipient calling to verify it at the branch
Cash withdrawal
<< <i>"Hey Bob, do you know this guy? (yelling across the bourse floor) Is he OK?"
"Yeah. He's fine. Done business with him for years."
"OK, we'll take your check...." >>
Yep, been on both sides of the table for this.
Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.
The only thing I don't have going for me is that I am young. I look way too young to be able to afford the coins I buy, but I hope my knowledge might break some of that up. But again, I'm still pretty new to the hobby.
I still walk into showrooms and get ignored. I enjoyed the look when I had to walk into the guys office and ask to buy a new corvette a few years ago. He changed his tune pretty quick. I guess most people my age are still searching for jobs or just fighting to pay their student loans.
I'm very excited to see the selection, but would hate to get in a snag on a coin I really want.
<< <i>I'm made purchases at most of these. They could give a decent reference? I feel like the dealer wouldn't want to have to run to another table just to find out you are good.....or would they? >>
Dealers who know you will give a reference, or they risk losing your business. Dealers who want your business will try to get your business, or they risk losing their business. It's really that simple. No need to overthink this.
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Its really nice when you have references that you can just shout out names , and they accept the check with pleasure, but it takes time and years to build this reputation and an extensive broad base of references.
I remember also on the other side of the fence when I was helping a dealer friend at the ANA years ago. He let me sell my 93-s $ in pc 50 at his table. A dealer whom I didn't know wanted to buy it for my asking price of 23k. (the have come down a bit since then in 50, mainly because of the overgrading of 45's being put into 50 holders now) (this topic is being discussed in another thread currently) anyway, he couldnt really give me a good reference that checked out, and I didn't want to loose the sale, but could not afford to take a loss of that magnitude, so I asked him if I could ship it too him once the check was good, he agreed, and we had a deal. Everything went smoothly!
<< <i>So essentially there is no way to write a check and walk out of there with a coin? Only having the coin mailed later on.
I wouldnt have any real dealer references that they would care about. I mostly deal with HA, Goldberg, Stacks, and fellow collectors. Again, I'm a small (50-75 table) show person and do a lot of deals online to save money. I'm also only a couple years being real serious into the hobby. I have bought online from some dealers that would be there, but I don't think that's the same.
I've bought my proof Morgan's from HA and fellow collectors.
50% down, ID, check, and 6 figure business card.....would that work? >>
Most dealers would accept a reference from HA, Goldberg, and/or Stacks. But in most cases the dealer will want to check with them first. If it is a large show like ANA or Baltimore where all of these dealers are, it is no problem. For a local show, an unknown collector, and a big purchase, most dealers would send you the coin after your check clears.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>I'm made purchases at most of these. They could give a decent reference? I feel like the dealer wouldn't want to have to run to another table just to find out you are good.....or would they? >>
Sure, for a large purchase the dealer or one of the table assistants would run to the other table to get the OK. If it is the difference between making or not making a good sale, a walk to another table is not a big deal. And, don't feel bad about it, it isn't personal, it is just a way the dealer can protect him/herself against bad checks.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
A check. I probably have not written a check in 5 years, and I am knocking on 60 years old. My wife is 54, not the most computer literate person in the world, and she has never even gotten paper checks for her checking account, which is over 10 years old.
My children, aged 20 - 30, have NEVER written a check.
I buy and sell at a lot of automotive swap meets, and it is an older crowd. I have not seen a check in years.
I typically will have 3 - 5K on me, depending on the swap meet.
I watched a transaction for an engine. Price agreed was $15K, IIRC, Buyer reached in his coat, pulled out $10K in a banded $100, and a second one, broke it open, and gave him the other $XK. Seller counted it, and pulled a bag out of his coat, and put the money in, like it was change at a garage sale.
Some people question about theft or robbery. Well, it is Texas, and probably every third person has a gun on them or within easy reach. CHL
Even Tommy Tent Peg has a card scanner for their IPHONE.
<< <i>
Even Tommy Tent Peg has a card scanner for their IPHONE. >>
No help if Dilbert Dealer won't take CCs or Tommy Tent Peg won't pay the surcharge. Cash is king, but one can see how a dealer might think that bundle of Bens might have a bogus bill or 2 in there.
<< <i>had a friend buy his house with his american express
surely a 10k coin at a major show should be no big deal >>
That's interesting. However, not sure I'd make the comparison. The difference is that the seller knows where the house is, but the dealer no longer knows where the coin is once it leaves the building.
Bullion.
Credit card and negotiate in the related fees.
PayPal gift.
PayPal regular and negotiate in the fees.
Checks as outlined here.
Bank wire if you're a bada**.
I don't think you'll have trouble especially at a BIG show.
I have never encountered a dealer who wouldn't happily take cash, whatever the price.
Most dealers size you up and look for a reference. It isn't hard to get someone to vouch for you. But I wouldn't mind waiting for a coin to be shipped when paying by check, regardless.
Lance.
If I recall the comments from ICTA correctly, the $10,000 threshhold can be crossed over a period of time, in addition to all at once - for example, if you buy bullion with cash, say, $3,000 per week for a month.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
<< <i>"Hey Bob, do you know this guy? (yelling across the bourse floor) Is he OK?"
"Yeah. He's fine. Done business with him for years."
"OK, we'll take your check...." >>
Exactly the way it goes most of the time I've been involved.
<< <i>one thing to remember, big brother expects to be aware of any transaction 10k or over, >>
Seen over $10,000 in hundreds for 1 purchase .. several times
When making a transaction with a financial institution (such as a bank) a Currency Transaction Report needs to be filed. Banks usually generate this report automatically for any qualifying transaction. If you think about the huge numbers of businesses who regularly bring in or distribute large sums of cash, the filing of such a report is rather routine. "Structuring", or making several smaller deposits or withdrawals to avoid this report attracts FAR, FAR more attention than just filling out the dumb report. A CTR Reference Guide
The financial institution has the ability to indicate "suspicious or suspected fraudulent activity" on the form. They are required to complete the form if you inquire about making a cash transaction over $10k and then change your mind, cancel the request, or make a smaller transaction. This is also a great way to attract extra scrutiny.
According to the IRS, Any persons who receive more than $10,000 in one transaction or a series of related transactions (within a 12 month period), while conducting their trade or business, must file a Form 8300. IRS FAQ's Regarding Form 8300
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I have never had a problem, but then again I've been going to shows since the 1970s. Whenever I got ready to pay by check, I simply referred the dealer to someone with whom I had done business in the past, who had a good reputation, and I was set.
Carrying and paying with cash is bad idea for several reasons. The first is obvious: It's a lot easier to get robbed. Beyond that a lot of dealers don't want to take lots of cash these days. There are problems with and reporting requirements to the IRS that can really get nasty. Then there is the issue of banks which charge businesses when they make cash deposits. Overall it's just better to have a good reputation so that you can write checks and avoid the hustles.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>The day my bank charges me for the privilege of accepting my cash is the last day I bank with them. >>
I agree, but they do it to businesses and even non profits. My wife's Friends of the Liberty group has pay to bank a small percentage of cash that they deposit from the receipts their donation bookstore earns.
<< <i>"Hey Bob, do you know this guy? (yelling across the bourse floor) Is he OK?"
"Yeah. He's fine. Done business with him for years."
"OK, we'll take your check...." >>
that worked for me quite a few times. its a wonderful thing
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>Have you ever done business with any of the larger, better known dealers that will have booths at the Baltimore show? If you so you can use them as a reference when you write checks.
I have never had a problem, but then again I've been going to shows since the 1970s. Whenever I got ready to pay by check, I simply referred the dealer to someone with whom I had done business in the past, who had a good reputation, and I was set.
Carrying and paying with cash is bad idea for several reasons. The first is obvious: It's a lot easier to get robbed. Beyond that a lot of dealers don't want to take lots of cash these days. There are problems with and reporting requirements to the IRS that can really get nasty. Then there is the issue of banks which charge businesses when they make cash deposits. Overall it's just better to have a good reputation so that you can write checks and avoid the hustles. >>
This.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."