I'm done with Stacks Bowers... update first post... complete resolution last post
jhdfla
Posts: 3,030 ✭✭✭
In the past I've always been supportive of Stacks Bowers and have NEVER bashed them, in spite of the many negative threads about their auctions. However, that is over for me now. I bid in last nights auction, won three lots, the invoice was posted to the website early this morning and I paid for my lots... I always try to pay promptly. The invoice showed zero balance, so I figured all was fine. This afternoon I logged on to look at the lots on my watchlist and was surprised to see that one of my lots that I had won... well... I was no longer the winner of the lot. Went to my orders and saw the order was deleted. So I called them. Got a lady on the phone who I asked THREE times what the deal was in a non-confrontational voice (at first), and got nothing but double talk and a runaround. She kept telling me she really didn't know what the problem was... all I really wanted was an explanation. Maybe I jumped the gun in retrospect, but she became annoyed at ME so I told her to cancel my other two wins as well as my account with Stacks Bowers. Before I cancelled I asked if someone who knew what was going on could possibly call me and clue me in on what happened, she said no and continued to give me the runaround. Not very good customer service or professionalism IMHO. Listen, I'm not a six figure buyer or anything like that, but I felt I deserved a little more respect than I received. Opinions?
I'd love to get a call back from someone explaining what the heck happened, but honestly, I'm not holding my breath at this point.
Edited to add update:
About two hours ago I received a call from Brian Kendrella. We had a very pleasant conversation, and he apologized for the associate who originally took my call. He promised to look into it and get back to me, he was most concerned with the unacceptable customer service that I received. I stressed the point that an IT issue was nowhere near as offensive as the unwillingness of an associate of Stacks Bowers to help a customer. If your IT platform is marginal, you sure as hell don't want your customer service to be anything but outstanding, at least IMHO. Frankly I think they were blindsided, and this is just conjecture on my part, but whatever happened they are apparently still trying to sort it all out. No hard feelings, and I wish Brian well in his efforts to improve things.
I'd love to get a call back from someone explaining what the heck happened, but honestly, I'm not holding my breath at this point.
Edited to add update:
About two hours ago I received a call from Brian Kendrella. We had a very pleasant conversation, and he apologized for the associate who originally took my call. He promised to look into it and get back to me, he was most concerned with the unacceptable customer service that I received. I stressed the point that an IT issue was nowhere near as offensive as the unwillingness of an associate of Stacks Bowers to help a customer. If your IT platform is marginal, you sure as hell don't want your customer service to be anything but outstanding, at least IMHO. Frankly I think they were blindsided, and this is just conjecture on my part, but whatever happened they are apparently still trying to sort it all out. No hard feelings, and I wish Brian well in his efforts to improve things.
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Comments
<< <i>In the past I've always been supportive of Stacks Bowers and have NEVER bashed them, in spite of the many negative threads about their auctions. However, that is over for me now. I bid in last nights auction, won three lots, the invoice was posted to the website early this morning and I paid for my lots... I always try to pay promptly. The invoice showed zero balance, so I figured all was fine. This afternoon I logged on to look at the lots on my watchlist and was surprised to see that one of my lots that I had won... well... I was no longer the winner of the lot. Went to my orders and saw the order was deleted. So I called them. Got a lady on the phone who I asked THREE times what the deal was in a non-confrontational voice (at first), and got nothing but double talk and a runaround. She kept telling me she really didn't know what the problem was... all I really wanted was an explanation. Maybe I jumped the gun in retrospect, but she became annoyed at ME so I told her to cancel my other two wins as well as my account with Stacks Bowers. Before I cancelled I asked if someone who knew what was going on could possibly call me and clue me in on what happened, she said no and continued to give me the runaround. Not very good customer service or professionalism IMHO. Listen, I'm not a six figure buyer or anything like that, but I felt I deserved a little more respect than I received. Opinions?
I'd love to get a call back from someone explaining what the heck happened, but honestly, I'm not holding my breath at this point. >>
In today's retail world the "total experience" separates the winners from the losers. Its easy to see what category Stacks-Bowers falls into.
John, let it run down your back...............Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Edited to add,
All I really wanted was an explanation. Maybe they don't even know yet and are trying to figure out what happened???
auction site. I liked a couple of colorfully-toned Franklin halves and placed bids. When the auction was over, it appeared
I had won both. About 24 hours later, I had received no communication from them, so ended up calling the next day
to arrange payment. I was informed that I had won neither lot, even though the web site STILL indicated otherwise.
We are talking about a grand total of $300 or so in coins, but I was so pissed about the situation, I decided then and
there to never deal with them again, and I haven't.
It blows my mind that this situation has gone unresolved for 15+ years now.
I do view their coins at shows and would bid in person, when the opportunity avails itself. It's not personal; there are some great folks in the organization. I think that they just have had trouble transitioning to the internet 24/7 coin environment, especially when compared to some of the competitors. In its day, the ANR iteration was my favorite.
I might return once I hear that they have fixed their problems.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
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<< <i>I have enough drama in my life already, why add some Stacks/Bowers mayhem to it?
I might return once I hear that they have fixed their problems. >>
Other places seem to get it right, why can't SB?
(and I'm not that good!), one of my biggest frustrations
with S/B is that after their auction prices realized are posted,
(which takes longer than Heritage), and I get to the right sale,
there is no box/format for me to punch in a single lot # to see
what it sold for.
You have to press the 4th page number, numerous times, to
get to, say, lot 2,400 in a sale....you can't get there directly,
from what I find.....takes a lot of time - just put in a 'go to
lot #....." box on the darn page.........
<< <i>In the past I've always been supportive of Stacks Bowers and have NEVER bashed them, in spite of the many negative threads about their auctions. However, that is over for me now. I bid in last nights auction, won three lots, the invoice was posted to the website early this morning and I paid for my lots... I always try to pay promptly. The invoice showed zero balance, so I figured all was fine. This afternoon I logged on to look at the lots on my watchlist and was surprised to see that one of my lots that I had won... well... I was no longer the winner of the lot. Went to my orders and saw the order was deleted. So I called them. Got a lady on the phone who I asked THREE times what the deal was in a non-confrontational voice (at first), and got nothing but double talk and a runaround. She kept telling me she really didn't know what the problem was... all I really wanted was an explanation. Maybe I jumped the gun in retrospect, but she became annoyed at ME so I told her to cancel my other two wins as well as my account with Stacks Bowers. Before I cancelled I asked if someone who knew what was going on could possibly call me and clue me in on what happened, she said no and continued to give me the runaround. Not very good customer service or professionalism IMHO. Listen, I'm not a six figure buyer or anything like that, but I felt I deserved a little more respect than I received. Opinions?
I'd love to get a call back from someone explaining what the heck happened, but honestly, I'm not holding my breath at this point. >>
That sounds really fishy.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Sometime around 1999 when I was returning to collecting, I discovered the Bowers and Merena (I believe it was then)
auction site. I liked a couple of colorfully-toned Franklin halves and placed bids. When the auction was over, it appeared
I had won both. About 24 hours later, I had received no communication from them, so ended up calling the next day
to arrange payment. I was informed that I had won neither lot, even though the web site STILL indicated otherwise.
We are talking about a grand total of $300 or so in coins, but I was so pissed about the situation, I decided then and
there to never deal with them again, and I haven't.
It blows my mind that this situation has gone unresolved for 15+ years now. >>
1999???? Give me a break!
Web technology was in its infancy back then. I wouldn't have expected it.
But yes, I agree, they should be better than that now. In fact, SB in its various incarnations over the years has had better websites, such as the old Teletrade one. They have just chosen, however unwisely, to move beyond them.
I once had a situation where I watched a lot close on-line at a price that was below my maximum bid. I stayed on to see if the lot might be re-opened. It wasn't after they had sold over 20 lots beyond it. The next day I get on this site, and the lot I had own was listed among those that people thought had sold for "a bargain." The trouble was the price was $2,000 higher than hammer price I had seen it go for on-line.
I called them and finally got the same run around that jhdfla got until I got a hold of a vice president. He told me that they had missed "snail mail" bid and that was why the price to me was more. To me it sounded like a "Rooster and Bull Story." I got them down $500 because I was being charged a cut bid, but I was still pi$$ed. I really wanted the lot, however, so I paid it.
I've not given up on them, but they can be very disappointing.
<< <i>1999???? Give me a break!
Web technology was in its infancy back then. I wouldn't have expected it.
But yes, I agree, they should be better than that now. In fact, SB in its various incarnations over the years has had better websites, such as the old Teletrade one. They have just chosen, however unwisely, to move beyond them. >>
I beg to differ. By 1999, reliable e-commerce was fairly commonplace and growing like a weed.
I bid on coins on other web sites at the time without similar problems. Furthermore, if their software
was unreliable, a human should have been tasked with updating the realized prices and winning bidders
on the web site as quickly as possible.
1) Incompetence. They have internal issues with the way bids are entered or registered. Someone who actually posted a higher bid than you should have been the rightful winner. This leaves you without the option of countering the bid for something you really, really want.
2) Shenanigans. A crony wanted the lot and was given the opportunity to acquire it on-the-side after your winning bid. Alternatively, a crony consignor may not have been satisfied with the sale price and "withdrew" the lot after the fact. The slightest spine-tingling notion of tripe like this would make me run for the hills. SB has a reasonably decent reputation, but it can be a funny hobby/industry.
3). Half-baked software that is riddled with bugs and errors. Really awesome software is expensive and requires people who actually know what they're doing. See number 1.
I'm guessing their issues are most closely aligned with number 3, but it doesn't really matter. Their competitors do it better so why even bother? They put most of their time and effort into the 5-figure and higher lots where they seem to have a certain level of attention to detail. The juice from the top 10% of coins accounts for the lion's share of their take from any auction. The more "pedestrian" stuff probably slides by.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I didn't realize how bad Stacks-Bowers is. I'm sure one of their fans has already informed them about this thread. It'll be interesting to see if they respond. >>
They did. See my original post Perry.
I've had positive experiences with them over the past two years, so I answered the survey and pointed out three areas in their web site that needs improvement.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>I paid my invoice online this morning for the one coin I won. It still shows me as the winning bidder, but the invoice has disappeared.
Same here, what a joke.
One of the coins I won has now dropped off. (The one I really wanted.)
<< <i>I'm almost wondering if some of the consignors raised so much H that perhaps they are renigging on the sales. >>
I didn't think about that possibility!
Im told it was "Auction department was having technical difficulties while finalizing the internet session."
<< <i>I had 10 lots from yesterdays invoice that disappeared in todays.
Im told it was "Auction department was having technical difficulties while finalizing the internet session." >>
Happened to me before .. I don't even bother anymore putting up the nonsense
<< <i>It must be really bad.......Wondercoin won't even come defend them anymore!
Good one!
Here is the reply I got as to why the coin I won was taken away from me. This message came from Brian Kendrella, who is a really nice guy by the way.
<< <i>It looks like a one of the bid sheets our customer service team was still entering at the close of the auction had a max bid above your $300 bid. The results you saw were preliminary and unaudited, hence the change. I apologize for any confusion. >>
Now when an auction ends, and I am the high bidder, I should win. All bids should be entered before the clock runs out otherwise, how do I know I was outbid? Add to this that I was still winning the next morning, with my bid history clearing stating I won. Then a bid sheet gets entered and I am now a loser? I call BS on this and I am also in the camp of having enough of this whole thing. I can't help but believe the coin was taken back because I got a great price on it. If you can't trust that you will win when you are high bidder at the end of an auction, why bid? Could you imagine eBay or Heritage doing that?
<< <i>I posted this in the wrong thread earlier. Sorry for the double.
Here is the reply I got as to why the coin I won was taken away from me. This message came from Brian Kendrella, who is a really nice guy by the way.
<< <i>It looks like a one of the bid sheets our customer service team was still entering at the close of the auction had a max bid above your $300 bid. The results you saw were preliminary and unaudited, hence the change. I apologize for any confusion. >>
Now when an auction ends, and I am the high bidder, I should win. All bids should be entered before the clock runs out otherwise, how do I know I was outbid? Add to this that I was still winning the next morning, with my bid history clearing stating I won. Then a bid sheet gets entered and I am now a loser? I call BS on this and I am also in the camp of having enough of this whole thing. I can't help but believe the coin was taken back because I got a great price on it. If you can't trust that you will win when you are high bidder at the end of an auction, why bid? Could you imagine eBay or Heritage doing that? >>
+1
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They say that the definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing but expecting to get different results.
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Guys. Understand that all we know thus far (at least what I have read) is essentially that SB might have released Invoices in error, one or more bidders quickly paid those Invoices and SB promptly returned that money. The parties paying those Invoices might believe they have the right to the coins at the prices listed in those Invoices whether SB sent them in error or not. SB might believe that in returning those funds (and canceling those erroneous Invoices) and issuing the correct Invoices, they protected consignors and (probably) the true high bidders on the lots in question. We also know that notwithstanding boilerplate language in the Terms and Conditions that gave SB the express permission to do exactly what I just described, SB offered compensation to the "aggrieved" parties. If an auction company issues an Invoice in error on a coin, does the fact that the recipient quickly pays it translate to a "done deal" between the auction company and that bidder with ownership of the coin passing to the bidder for the erroneous amount of the Invoice? If I understand some of the comments here, I might conclude that is exactly what many here believe.
I believe we are still missing facts here, because SB has not come forward to explain what exactly happened in the final day of their Internet Only auction. Were these Invoices for that Session issued by accident and SB simply needed to correct the error by returning any payments received on the erroneously issued Invoices? Is it more sinister than that? I simply suggest not assuming a sinister motivation for what SB did here unless and until we hear from SB and their explanation warrants such an interpretation.
And let me be clear about something. By no means do I prefer doing business with SB to the detriment of all other auction companies. I have always enjoyed doing business with Heritage over the years AND I LOVE doing business with the Goldbergs especially when I work with Glenn who is just one super straight shooting guy. I also have no issues with nearly all the other auction companies out there. I remember when I loved doing business with Teletrade and I often took a position contrary to a negative post here about Teletrade. What I find quite amusing is that often times those same posters who were quick to call out Teletrade are now calling (if not almost begging) for the return of Teletrade and wishing Teletrade were still around.
In short, let's give SB the benefit of the doubt and hope that a representative of SB stops by and explains to us all what exactly took place in their Internet session of their most recent sale.
As always, just my two cents.
Wondercoin
<< <i>"<< It must be really bad.......Wondercoin won't even come defend them anymore! >>"
Guys. Understand that all we know thus far (at least what I have read) is essentially that SB might have released Invoices in error, one or more bidders quickly paid those Invoices and SB promptly returned that money. The parties paying those Invoices might believe they have the right to the coins at the prices listed in those Invoices whether SB sent them in error or not. SB might believe that in returning those funds (and canceling those erroneous Invoices) and issuing the correct Invoices, they protected consignors and (probably) the true high bidders on the lots in question. We also know that notwithstanding boilerplate language in the Terms and Conditions that gave SB the express permission to do exactly what I just described, SB offered compensation to the "aggrieved" parties. If an auction company issues an Invoice in error on a coin, does the fact that the recipient quickly pays it translate to a "done deal" between the auction company and that bidder with ownership of the coin passing to the bidder for the erroneous amount of the Invoice? If I understand some of the comments here, I might conclude that is exactly what many here believe.
I believe we are still missing facts here, because SB has not come forward to explain what exactly happened in the final day of their Internet Only auction. Were these Invoices for that Session issued by accident and SB simply needed to correct the error by returning any payments received on the erroneously issued Invoices? Is it more sinister than that? I simply suggest not assuming a sinister motivation for what SB did here unless and until we hear from SB and their explanation warrants such an interpretation.
And let me be clear about something. By no means do I prefer doing business with SB to the detriment of all other auction companies. I have always enjoyed doing business with Heritage over the years AND I LOVE doing business with the Goldbergs especially when I work with Glenn who is just one super straight shooting guy. I also have no issues with nearly all the other auction companies out there. I remember when I loved doing business with Teletrade and I often took a position contrary to a negative post here about Teletrade. What I find quite amusing is that often times those same posters who were quick to call out Teletrade are now calling (if not almost begging) for the return of Teletrade and wishing Teletrade were still around.
In short, let's give SB the benefit of the doubt and hope that a representative of SB stops by and explains to us all what exactly took place in their Internet session of their most recent sale.
As always, just my two cents.
Wondercoin >>
I am sure that there is nothing sinister about what happened. To suggest that there is something more than an error is just foolish. That said, this continued string of issues and errors clearly hits at the competence and capability of the company. At some point one must stop blaming IT systems and start blaming the folks who are responsible for managing the company.
Latin American Collection
<< <i>They say that the definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing but expecting to get different results. >>