Coin Show Strategy
stevepk
Posts: 238 ✭✭✭
Do any collectors go to a coin show and successfully walk out with more money than they walked in with? Is it possible for a collector to visit one dealer table after another buying material and then selling it at another table for a profit? I know someone who claims to do this, but I find the task nearly impossible. First, most dealers do not have prices on their inventory at a show. You often have to ask for any coin you are interested in. This means waiting for an opportunity to speak and waiting for a price. Typically, it is impossible to scan inventory for potentially underpriced material because there are no marked prices. Secondly, there is always a buy/sell spread. Third, and I could be wrong, but don't dealers give partial treatment to other dealers and charge more to collectors?
This is unrelated to cherrypicking rare die varieties that have not been attributed, but rather addresses slabbed coins. I doubt this is possible. Otherwise, people would just quit their jobs and browse bourse floors for a living. I could be wrong though.
This is unrelated to cherrypicking rare die varieties that have not been attributed, but rather addresses slabbed coins. I doubt this is possible. Otherwise, people would just quit their jobs and browse bourse floors for a living. I could be wrong though.
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Dozens of BST deals completed, including: kalshacon, cucamongacoin, blu62vette, natetrook, JGNumismatics, Coinshowman, DollarAfterDollar, timbuk3, jimdimmick & many more
<< <i>Do any collectors go to a coin show and successfully walk out with more money than they walked in with? Is it possible for a collector to visit one dealer table after another buying material and then selling it at another table for a profit? >>
Yes and Yes. I do hope Mrhalfdime shares with us the story of his friend who was great at doing this.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>Of course this is possible, but to successfully implement this, one has to be a very sharp grader, have a deep knowledge of who is looking for what and who isn't a PITA, and be lucky enough to not get eaten alive by occasional mistakes. Will an intermediate collector be able to do this? No chance. >>
remember, it is not just the grade of the coin that matters. Specialists in die marriages, remarriages, varieties, etc can do quite well for themselves
<< <i>
<< <i>Of course this is possible, but to successfully implement this, one has to be a very sharp grader, have a deep knowledge of who is looking for what and who isn't a PITA, and be lucky enough to not get eaten alive by occasional mistakes. Will an intermediate collector be able to do this? No chance. >>
remember, it is not just the grade of the coin that matters. Specialists in die marriages, remarriages, varieties, etc can do quite well for themselves
True, but I was responding to the OP, who excluded cherrypicking rare varieties. Cherrypicking is easier IMO.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
More than a few people play the buy, crack-out, walk-through submission, and resell trick. The whole key here is to be an astute grader of at least one series. Having good contacts helps too. One really big score could easily cover the cost of the show.
If you're just looking at random material, you'll never get anywhere. You really need to know the game. Next time you're at a show stop and look around the bourse. Ask yourself which people are smarter than you and which ones aren't.
<< <i>Do any collectors go to a coin show and successfully walk out with more money than they walked in with? Is it possible for a collector to visit one dealer table after another buying material and then selling it at another table for a profit? I know someone who claims to do this, but I find the task nearly impossible. >>
It is certainly possible at any show, but much easier at a larger show than at smaller local show where all of the dealers likely know one another and where there is plenty of time for each dealer to see the other dealers' inventory during setup.
<< <i>Third, and I could be wrong, but don't dealers give partial treatment to other dealers and charge more to collectors? >>
Sure, if dealers are friendly with one another and have been doing deals with one another for many years (and hope to continue to do so for many more years), then yes, those dealers are likely to get better prices. But at a larger show, where the relationships between dealers may not be as strong or even non-existent, lower prices aren't necessarily given out just because someone has a dealer badge.
For example, I know when I do business at shows, I have prices in mind for my coins and the cash is just as good coming from a collector or another dealer. I don't give special discounts to folks just because they paid for a table on the other side of the room. But yes, if it's a dealer I've known awhile and have done many successful deals with, I'll try a little harder to work a deal with them.
<< <i>I doubt this is possible. Otherwise, people would just quit their jobs and browse bourse floors for a living. I could be wrong though. >>
I know a few people at the larger shows who just bounce around from table to table with a few coins at a time just trying to make a few bucks... over and over and over throughout the show. Some of them actually buy the coins and try to profit. Others "borrow" the coins from friendly dealers and then try to sell them to others for a few bucks more than they'd have to buy the coin.
Remember, each dealer at a show is bringing hundreds or even thousands of coins... even at a small show it's impossible for a dealer to look at everything else the other dealers have.
And at the larger shows, if you include the coins in the major auctions as part of the show, there is even more opportunity to make money flipping at the shows. I know several guys that buy stuff at the auctions, then flip them on the bourse floor at that same show before the auction company has time to deposit their check!
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Thank you, Barndog, for that lead in. One of the most amazing people that I have ever had the privilege to known in this hobby for attributing rare and scarce die marriages in the early Federal Bust denominations was my very good friend Stan Kubacki, who sadly passed away several years ago. Stan was a member of the John Reich Collectors Society, and while he collected and specialized in the Bust dimes, he had an uncanny ability to correctly attribute the rare and scarce die marriages for all Bust denominations, and he did this quickly and without referring to any notes. I would place Stan's attribution skills in the same league with Brian Greer.
Stan once asked me if I knew what he had as a net investment in his spectacular dime collection. Of course, this was information not known to me, but I knew that he had one of the most complete and highest grade collections of early dimes, so the number had to be substantial. He then told me of his rather amazing philosophy in pursuing his dimes. Stan would travel to all of the major national coin shows, and from bourse opening until noon, he looked only at the other denominations, but not dimes. This must have involved a huge amount of mental discipline, to ignore his own series, but this was his MO at every show. He would scour the bourse, identifying and buying many rare die marriages in the other denominations. Then, at noon, he would contact other specialists in those denominations, who were almost always at the same shows, and offer them his cherry picks. He NEVER had any problem selling any of those rare coins, as he knew all of the specialists, and even had a pretty good idea of what they were each looking for. I was the very happy recipient of several of Stan's half dime cherry picks, including the second known specimen (at that time) of the 1833 LM-5/V10 (current R7), and the second known specimen (at that time) of the 1800 LM-4/V4 (current R7). Then, after finding happy homes for his morning cherry picks, Stan would take the proceeds and begin looking for rare dimes. Thus, his net investment in his substantial dime collection was zero, purchased entirely from cherry pick proceeds.
Stan was an 'interesting' man in several ways. They say that we all have a doppelganger, or someone who looks exactly like us. Certainly for Stan this was true. He was a dead ringer for Willie Nelson, replete with the braids, beard, red neckerchief, and even the Wranglers. He was as knowledgeable as any early Federal coin collector that I have known, and I dearly miss our interesting conversations.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
<< <i>I never tire of hearing that story! Thanks
No kidding. It's what many collectors dream of being able to do.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Theoretically you could have millions of dollars in raw coins at a major show, FUN/Baltimore and get them graded and sold with a big fat check or pile of precious metals in trade. Plus there is lots of cash at many shows for the right coins.
Unless you are a variety person who is smarter than the average bear, I think this sort of thing is quite rare, and for all but a handful of people, impossible to do on a consistent basis.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I don't know any Bust Half collectors here in Fargo other than me. So it was easy to cherry pick both dealers in town. I took my findings 4 R5 bust halves and a number better pieces to FUN a few years back and made a killing.
I think I own the only copy of "The Ultimate Guide to Attributing Bust Half Dollars" in town.
Many dealers have shows where after expenses and costs of sales they are in the red. Making money at a show is no easy thing even if you set up. Its possible a sharp vest pocket trader can make money at a show but it will certainly not be buying from dealer A at Retail and selling to dealer B at Bluesheet.
The only show strategy which works IMO is in setting up at the show sell your coins on Saturday and Buy on Sunday.
The regular collector gets stuck with a margin upon purchase and then gets the ole 15% back of bid haircut upon selling. It's not happening 99% of the time.
<< <i>Well if you're the smartest guy in the room you could >>
Sounds like Stan Kubacki would qualify.
I've known a couple like this. They don't last long once word gets around that they are just looking to shop your inventory around the floor only to return it.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>There is a collector/vest pocket with some notoriety for never taking a risk on a coin, but being ready to clean out dealers who underprice their coins below market value. And he will "buy" a coin early at the coin show and if he can't sell it at a profit, walk it back to the dealer for a refund.
I've known a couple like this. They don't last long once word gets around that they are just looking to shop your inventory around the floor only to return it. >>
If someone tried to walk back a coin after I sell it to him, I would tell him to métlela.... Another reason not to take a check from someone you don't know or can be vouched for by someone you trust.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I always find it entertaining when a dealer will tell me he needs a better price or wants to pay this much for my best pieces so he can resell at a profit. LOL Last I checked that was what I was trying to do.
I have not set up at a local coin show in well over a year but there is some over lap in coin/guns sales. I have seen a trend over the last few years where everyone thinks they are a pawn star or pawn king when trying to buy or sell. I will be polite for the first minute or 2 but if they don't take the hint I spell it out clear to them, move on.
That is a cool story by MrHalfDime.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
I started with, moving from table to table. It always works best when you know that certain dealers are actively looking
for specific pieces (usually for a client, so the dealer knows that the coin already has a home). Buying and selling generic
slabs rarely works.
My best shows have been smaller shows (around 100-150 tables) where some of the dealers are not up-to-date with pricing for
special pieces (nice toners, choice early copper, colonials, etc.). I have done very well with toned Morgan dollars over the
years, and I have taken some big losses on same -- you can't win on every coin.
If you do want to try your hand at this, remember that it is very important to treat the dealers professionally. Be a good
customer, don't block a dealer's table, don't haggle when there is no need to. When offering coins to other dealers, don't
argue if the dealer gives you a low price -- thank the dealer for his/her time, smile, and move on. The same dealer may
be the source for a good profit on another day. Making friends never hurts, but remember that they are there to make a
living, not to expand their social lives.