PCGS wants $250 to weigh a coin!
MarkBen
Posts: 154
I sent in eight patterns to be reholdered, and I asked that they also be weighed. In the past, PCGS weighed coins and put the weight on the label without additional charge.
I received a message from PCGS saying that they need to send the coins to an outside lab to get weighed, and the charge is $250 per coin. So, they want $2,000 to weigh the eight coins. I was told that the decision was made by the head of the variety department. I also got a message from a pattern grader who politely said that they don't put weights on labels unless I pay $250 and also get a full metallic analysis.
Can this possibly be right? Any suggestions about who I could talk to at PCGS to get them to weigh the coins?
I received a message from PCGS saying that they need to send the coins to an outside lab to get weighed, and the charge is $250 per coin. So, they want $2,000 to weigh the eight coins. I was told that the decision was made by the head of the variety department. I also got a message from a pattern grader who politely said that they don't put weights on labels unless I pay $250 and also get a full metallic analysis.
Can this possibly be right? Any suggestions about who I could talk to at PCGS to get them to weigh the coins?
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Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_fluorescence
<< <i>I would look at this as an opportunity to make lemonade. You could start up your own business of analyzing coins metallic composition, certifying weight and dimension, and charging a hell of a lot less than $250 per coin while still making a tidy income.
At a show last year I had a chance to meet and speak in great detail with NGC's exonumia manager. Testing of the metallurgy composition was one of my main concerns on some items I own. NGC doesn't send out to a lab and can offer the service in-house for $35.00 and their lead time is also about 6 weeks or less compared to upwards of 4 months.
<< <i>So, they want $2,000 to weigh the eight coins. >>
Yah load sixteen ton and what do you get.......... another clear holder and further in debt.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>Are you sure it wasn't $250 for all 8? >>
Yes, I am very sure it's not $250 for all 8, which wouldn't be bad. It's clear that they are asking $250 per coin, which would include a metallic analysis. I don't want the metallic analysis, and I am being very clear on that point.
Why is it so important to have the exact weight on the label?
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I sent a gold foreign coin to NGC and they automatically weighed it, not sure what the practice is at the world's premier grading service.
I find the request for additional monies in this case to be ridiculous. edited for spelling error
<< <i> Why is it so important to have the exact weight on the label? >>
Two reasons:
1. I collect patterns, and I've learned that many patterns are designated incorrectly. I am particularly interested in the metallic variations. For example, I submitted two coins with the same Judd number. They look different to me, and I suspect that their metallic content is different. By weighing them both, I will be able to tell if they are really different (in which case I might have discovered something new). I can use the weights as a vehicle to determine which coins need to have a metallic analysis, which is expensive and time consuming. As an example, just by looking at the coin, it's really hard to tell the difference between bronze and copper. I can frequently distinguish them if I know the weight.
2. Some patterns have a thick and a thin variety. Even with the edgeview holder, it's hard to know which one I've got. But, if I know the weight, and I have the weight on the label, I can be sure that I really have both a thin and thick example. I also know something neat about the coins. Indeed, two of the coins that I submitted were designated as "thick", but I want to be sure.
I am a coin collector. For me, part of the fun of collecting is looking at the weight of the coins and, when necessary, performing metallic analysis. I want to be sure that my coins are designated correctly on the holder. Incidentally, when I've discovered an error, I know that PCGS isn't responsible for correcting it. I just want my collection to be labelled correctly. I am not a dealer; I collect for the fun of it and for the challenge. It's too bad that PCGS is making that expensive and difficult.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
That being the case, it really isn't necessary to determine the weight. If you can't find an establishment in your locality that can analyze your patterns with a portable (hand held) XRF gun (I have this service available to me pro bono from another local coin dealer), then you might even seek out an administrator of the physics department of a nearby university or college, which has SEM /EDX (Scanning electron microscopy with energy dispersive X-ray spectroscopy) equipment in their laboratories and would accomodate you on a limited basis. SEM/EDX will provide a very precise and detailed elemental analysis.
As another consideration, the instructors I had several years ago for the Altered & Counterfeit Coin Detecting course at the A.N.A. Summer seminar brought the class to the physics lab on the Colorado College campus to analyze an unconfirmed specimen of 1943 copper cent using their SEM/EDX. That courtesy may very well still be available on a limited basis.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>No weigh! >>
LOL.
Lance.
Have a Great Day!
Louis
<< <i>PCGS is in business to make money for shareholders. >>
Fixed it for ya.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>No weigh! >>
Jose!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>Another option is to weigh the slabs and compare them to each other, and to other raw coins. With a little bit of creativity, you should be able to figure the weight of just about any coin. >>
...spoken like a true dealer of any and all sorts...or at least any business which requires a precise weight of the said product to ensure all parties are satisfied
Erik
Hoard the keys.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>PCGS is in business to make money. >>
How does providing good customer service not help the bottom line? How much work is it to put a coin on an electronic scale and to write down a number?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Another option is to weigh the slabs and compare them to each other, and to other raw coins. With a little bit of creativity, you should be able to figure the weight of just about any coin. >>
Weighing the complete remnants of a cracked out slab which held the same diameter coin & subtracting it from the weight of your coin while slabbed will yield close to exact weight.
Or weighing your coin while slabbed then cracking it out and subtracting the weight of the empty slab... Oh never mind option one works just as well
<< <i>How does providing good customer service not help the bottom line? How much work is it to put a coin on an electronic scale and to write down a number? >>
The PCGS service people have been polite and responsive. I was impressed that a grader sent me an email. Those guys must be pretty busy! I believe that PCGS tries to be responsive to the needs of their customers. I am hoping that, by shining a light on this situation, the pricing policy can be improved.
<< PCGS is in business to make money for shareholders. >>
Of course, and I want PCGS to continue to succeed. Sometimes, lowering a price can increase revenue and profits, however.
<< <i>
<< <i>How does providing good customer service not help the bottom line? How much work is it to put a coin on an electronic scale and to write down a number? >>
The PCGS service people have been polite and responsive. I was impressed that a grader sent me an email. Those guys must be pretty busy! I believe that PCGS tries to be responsive to the needs of their customers. I am hoping that, by shining a light on this situation, the pricing policy can be improved.
<< PCGS is in business to make money for shareholders. >>
Of course, and I want PCGS to continue to succeed. Sometimes, lowering a price can increase revenue and profits, however. >>
Let's say they can weigh one coin a minute. That's $15,000 an hour. They can pay the weighing expert $100 an hour and walk away with $14,900. Wait I forgot to account for pencil lead
and Post-it Notes, so let's make it $14,895 profit.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Markben has given a very clear picture on why he needs the weight and what the obstacles are. (Weighing the entire slab and guessing the weight of the slab v. coin is never going to work.)
I share his frustration. Common sense tells us that a coin grading service will (or should) get the precise weight of a coin as part of its authentication process. Perhaps there are classes of coins (moderns?) where they are not weighed at all? Or weighed with less precision?
It would seem that it would be a relatively simple matter to include the weight of the coin on the label if required by the customer. A small fee should easily cover this.
I wonder if including the weight opens up the grading company to some further liability?
I would be interested to see PCGS's official explanation of this.
All of my coins are secure in a bank safe-deposit box.
<< <i>Markben has given a very clear picture on why he needs the weight and what the obstacles are. >>
The only obstacle seems to be the price. PCGS is willing to provide the service and has named the price. The OP just doesn't want to pay PCGS's price. Things couldn't be simpler.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I like this answer to the problem --------->>>>"For less than $250 (the cost for weighing just one coin) you can buy your own Ohaus triple beam scale and weigh your own coins. And with a balance scale, rather than a digital scale, you can also easily conduct your own specific gravity tests."
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I sent in eight patterns to be reholdered, and I asked that they also be weighed. In the past, PCGS weighed coins and put the weight on the label without additional charge.
I received a message from PCGS saying that they need to send the coins to an outside lab to get weighed, and the charge is $250 per coin. So, they want $2,000 to weigh the eight coins. I was told that the decision was made by the head of the variety department. I also got a message from a pattern grader who politely said that they don't put weights on labels unless I pay $250 and also get a full metallic analysis.
Can this possibly be right? Any suggestions about who I could talk to at PCGS to get them to weigh the coins? >>
There is a pretty easy solution if you ask me. Break out a cheap PCGS coin (maybe of a different type) and estimate the weight of the label, holder, and gasket. Then subtract this from the weight of the holdered patterns and estimate the weight +/- 0.05 grams or so. That sounds like a close enough tolerance for me. It's not like you need the information to authenticate the coin - PCGS has already done that for you.
<< <i>How can they authenticate coins if they don't have the means to weigh them?
+1
Solutions that involve weighing the slab and coin are not practical. You would then be assuming that the slabs all weigh exactly the same.
It doesn't sound unreasonable to get the weight of the coin. VERY accurate scales that measure to a tenth of a gram are commonplace. This isn't rocket surgery.
Remember the OP doesn't care about chemical composition, he merely wants the weight.
All of my coins are secure in a bank safe-deposit box.
What about just getting a printout of the various weights and/or doing this within the PCGS photography section and getting it through the Tru-View program (or whatever it is called?)
Seems like PCGS could do this and charge an appropriate fee for doing this weighting service as well as charge for reholdering and the Tru-view photography.
While the weight would not be on the label, it could be listed on the PCGS web site?
<< <i>Solutions that involve weighing the slab and coin are not practical. You would then be assuming that the slabs all weigh exactly the same. >>
Slabs are injection molded and CNC machined to exact tolerances then just heat sealed.
So you would just need to know the weight of same diameter opening silicone gasket/prong & the paper label.
GrandAm