PCGS wants $250 to weigh a coin!

MarkBen · February 6, 2015 8:42AM

I sent in eight patterns to be reholdered, and I asked that they also be weighed. In the past, PCGS weighed coins and put the weight on the label without additional charge.

I received a message from PCGS saying that they need to send the coins to an outside lab to get weighed, and the charge is $250 per coin. So, they want $2,000 to weigh the eight coins. I was told that the decision was made by the head of the variety department. I also got a message from a pattern grader who politely said that they don't put weights on labels unless I pay $250 and also get a full metallic analysis.

Can this possibly be right? Any suggestions about who I could talk to at PCGS to get them to weigh the coins?

DennisH · February 6, 2015 8:50AM

Sounds like things have changed and they really don't want to do that anymore.

MrEureka · February 6, 2015 8:53AM

I don't know who you should contact next, but I do think it's pretty cool that PCGS has a "head of the variety department" and a designated "pattern grader".

Broadstruck · February 6, 2015 9:06AM

Are you sure it wasn't $250 for all 8?

coindeuce · February 6, 2015 9:07AM

I would look at this as an opportunity to make lemonade. You could start up your own business of analyzing coins metallic composition, certifying weight and dimension, and charging a hell of a lot less than $250 per coin while still making a tidy income.

yosclimber · February 6, 2015 9:11AM

Maybe the $250 is for a full metallic analysis, i.e. XRF.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_fluorescence

Broadstruck · February 6, 2015 9:24AM

<< I would look at this as an opportunity to make lemonade. You could start up your own business of analyzing coins metallic composition, certifying weight and dimension, and charging a hell of a lot less than $250 per coin while still making a tidy income.

>>

At a show last year I had a chance to meet and speak in great detail with NGC's exonumia manager. Testing of the metallurgy composition was one of my main concerns on some items I own. NGC doesn't send out to a lab and can offer the service in-house for $35.00 and their lead time is also about 6 weeks or less compared to upwards of 4 months.

MGLICKER · February 6, 2015 9:25AM

<< So, they want $2,000 to weigh the eight coins. >>

Yah load sixteen ton and what do you get.......... another clear holder and further in debt.

Timbuk3 · February 6, 2015 9:30AM

Wow, sounds crazy to me !!! JMHO

MrHalfDime · February 6, 2015 9:31AM

For less than $250 (the cost for weighing just one coin) you can buy your own Ohaus triple beam scale and weigh your own coins. And with a balance scale, rather than a digital scale, you can also easily conduct your own specific gravity tests.

keyman64 · February 6, 2015 9:35AM

MarkBen · February 6, 2015 9:42AM

<< Are you sure it wasn't $250 for all 8? >>

Yes, I am very sure it's not $250 for all 8, which wouldn't be bad. It's clear that they are asking $250 per coin, which would include a metallic analysis. I don't want the metallic analysis, and I am being very clear on that point.

CaptHenway · February 6, 2015 9:51AM

No weigh!

WoodenJefferson · February 6, 2015 10:02AM

Stoopid question...

Why is it so important to have the exact weight on the label?

ms70 · February 6, 2015 10:15AM

I think the head of the VD should weigh his ideas on pricing before he says he'll weigh coins.

puffer · February 6, 2015 10:16AM

If we lived in a pure market economy and society where you had to pay for actual cost of every service and every business and government entity had to justify those costs to those in charge in the green eye shade department most of the tasks we rely on to get done would not get done as they would not be affordable.

I sent a gold foreign coin to NGC and they automatically weighed it, not sure what the practice is at the world's premier grading service.

410a · February 6, 2015 10:42AM

Well, they are not a "one dimensional company" and you see coins aren't the origin of the dimension, you know they do other things and those other things cost more money. Like you know, well, ya know. So, if your not "one dimensional" you get more money for other things that have nothing to do with the reason you are in business in the first place.

I find the request for additional monies in this case to be ridiculous. edited for spelling error

MarkBen · February 6, 2015 10:50AM

<< Why is it so important to have the exact weight on the label? >>

Two reasons:

1. I collect patterns, and I've learned that many patterns are designated incorrectly. I am particularly interested in the metallic variations. For example, I submitted two coins with the same Judd number. They look different to me, and I suspect that their metallic content is different. By weighing them both, I will be able to tell if they are really different (in which case I might have discovered something new). I can use the weights as a vehicle to determine which coins need to have a metallic analysis, which is expensive and time consuming. As an example, just by looking at the coin, it's really hard to tell the difference between bronze and copper. I can frequently distinguish them if I know the weight.

2. Some patterns have a thick and a thin variety. Even with the edgeview holder, it's hard to know which one I've got. But, if I know the weight, and I have the weight on the label, I can be sure that I really have both a thin and thick example. I also know something neat about the coins. Indeed, two of the coins that I submitted were designated as "thick", but I want to be sure.

I am a coin collector. For me, part of the fun of collecting is looking at the weight of the coins and, when necessary, performing metallic analysis. I want to be sure that my coins are designated correctly on the holder. Incidentally, when I've discovered an error, I know that PCGS isn't responsible for correcting it. I just want my collection to be labelled correctly. I am not a dealer; I collect for the fun of it and for the challenge. It's too bad that PCGS is making that expensive and difficult.

PerryHall · February 6, 2015 10:56AM

How can they authenticate coins if they don't have the means to weigh them?

coindeuce · February 6, 2015 11:09AM

" I am particularly interested in the metallic variations"

That being the case, it really isn't necessary to determine the weight. If you can't find an establishment in your locality that can analyze your patterns with a portable (hand held) XRF gun (I have this service available to me pro bono from another local coin dealer), then you might even seek out an administrator of the physics department of a nearby university or college, which has SEM /EDX (Scanning electron microscopy with energy dispersive X-ray spectroscopy) equipment in their laboratories and would accomodate you on a limited basis. SEM/EDX will provide a very precise and detailed elemental analysis.
As another consideration, the instructors I had several years ago for the Altered & Counterfeit Coin Detecting course at the A.N.A. Summer seminar brought the class to the physics lab on the Colorado College campus to analyze an unconfirmed specimen of 1943 copper cent using their SEM/EDX. That courtesy may very well still be available on a limited basis.

lkeigwin · February 6, 2015 11:15AM

<< No weigh! >>

LOL.
Lance.

themaster · February 6, 2015 11:37AM

For that price, each submission should afford you a free apocalyptic " bug out bag ".

Have a Great Day!
Louis

topstuf · February 6, 2015 11:39AM

They won't slab Yap stones yet, will they?

BWCoin · February 6, 2015 11:40AM

PCGS is in business to make money.

coindeuce · February 6, 2015 12:54PM

<< PCGS is in business to make money for shareholders. >>

Fixed it for ya.

Jinx86 · February 6, 2015 12:59PM

A few members here on the forum have sent me coins to be analyzed with our XRF. So far they have all been happy with the print outs I've given them. Currently working on a large group that is all raw. Just working on it in my spare time. Ive never have to "shoot" a slabbed coin, but I might have to give it a try and share my results.

BAJJERFAN · February 6, 2015 1:03PM

<< No weigh! >>

Jose!

MrEureka · February 6, 2015 2:35PM

Another option is to weigh the slabs and compare them to each other, and to other raw coins. With a little bit of creativity, you should be able to figure the weight of just about any coin.

WoodenJefferson · February 6, 2015 3:03PM

MarkBen, thanks for your lengthy explanation of why you like your 'pattern' coins weighed.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · February 6, 2015 3:12PM

<< Another option is to weigh the slabs and compare them to each other, and to other raw coins. With a little bit of creativity, you should be able to figure the weight of just about any coin. >>

...spoken like a true dealer of any and all sorts...or at least any business which requires a precise weight of the said product to ensure all parties are satisfied

Erik

Type2 · February 6, 2015 3:36PM

Did you call me weigh....

PerryHall · February 6, 2015 6:09PM

You should have weighed your coins before they were slabbed. There are numerous cheap electronic scales on eBay and Amazon and from most coin supply stores that are extremely accurate.

PerryHall · February 6, 2015 6:15PM

<< PCGS is in business to make money. >>

How does providing good customer service not help the bottom line? How much work is it to put a coin on an electronic scale and to write down a number?

291fifth · February 6, 2015 10:05PM

I suspect there is more than meets the eye going on here.

Broadstruck · February 6, 2015 11:40PM

<< Another option is to weigh the slabs and compare them to each other, and to other raw coins. With a little bit of creativity, you should be able to figure the weight of just about any coin. >>

Weighing the complete remnants of a cracked out slab which held the same diameter coin & subtracting it from the weight of your coin while slabbed will yield close to exact weight.

Or weighing your coin while slabbed then cracking it out and subtracting the weight of the empty slab... Oh never mind option one works just as well

410a · February 7, 2015 12:06AM

..........291fifth...........the only one who gets the idea..........

MarkBen · February 7, 2015 12:31AM

<< How does providing good customer service not help the bottom line? How much work is it to put a coin on an electronic scale and to write down a number? >>

The PCGS service people have been polite and responsive. I was impressed that a grader sent me an email. Those guys must be pretty busy! I believe that PCGS tries to be responsive to the needs of their customers. I am hoping that, by shining a light on this situation, the pricing policy can be improved.

<< PCGS is in business to make money for shareholders. >>

Of course, and I want PCGS to continue to succeed. Sometimes, lowering a price can increase revenue and profits, however.

ms70 · February 7, 2015 12:40AM

<< 

<< How does providing good customer service not help the bottom line? How much work is it to put a coin on an electronic scale and to write down a number? >>

The PCGS service people have been polite and responsive. I was impressed that a grader sent me an email. Those guys must be pretty busy! I believe that PCGS tries to be responsive to the needs of their customers. I am hoping that, by shining a light on this situation, the pricing policy can be improved.

<< PCGS is in business to make money for shareholders. >>

Of course, and I want PCGS to continue to succeed. Sometimes, lowering a price can increase revenue and profits, however. >>

Let's say they can weigh one coin a minute. That's $15,000 an hour. They can pay the weighing expert $100 an hour and walk away with $14,900. Wait I forgot to account for pencil lead
and Post-it Notes, so let's make it $14,895 profit.

AKFlyer · February 7, 2015 1:16AM

Markben has given a very clear picture on why he needs the weight and what the obstacles are. (Weighing the entire slab and guessing the weight of the slab v. coin is never going to work.)

I share his frustration. Common sense tells us that a coin grading service will (or should) get the precise weight of a coin as part of its authentication process. Perhaps there are classes of coins (moderns?) where they are not weighed at all? Or weighed with less precision?

It would seem that it would be a relatively simple matter to include the weight of the coin on the label if required by the customer. A small fee should easily cover this.

I wonder if including the weight opens up the grading company to some further liability?

I would be interested to see PCGS's official explanation of this.

ricko · February 7, 2015 2:31AM

While the fee seems (to the untrained) to be expensive, it is actually within the proper range. In the line of work I used to be in, we used outside laboratories many times for analysis (weight, composition etc) and those services are not cheap. It seems simple enough, and can be, if done 'in house'...but sent outside, costs escalate. Cheers, RickO

astrorat · February 7, 2015 3:44AM

<< Markben has given a very clear picture on why he needs the weight and what the obstacles are. >>

The only obstacle seems to be the price. PCGS is willing to provide the service and has named the price. The OP just doesn't want to pay PCGS's price. Things couldn't be simpler.

winky · February 7, 2015 4:22AM

I will weigh it for $199.

jmski52 · February 7, 2015 4:28AM

Isn't verifying the correct weight part of the authentication process?

I like this answer to the problem --------->>>>"For less than $250 (the cost for weighing just one coin) you can buy your own Ohaus triple beam scale and weigh your own coins. And with a balance scale, rather than a digital scale, you can also easily conduct your own specific gravity tests."

coinguy1989 · February 7, 2015 4:31AM

<< I sent in eight patterns to be reholdered, and I asked that they also be weighed. In the past, PCGS weighed coins and put the weight on the label without additional charge.

I received a message from PCGS saying that they need to send the coins to an outside lab to get weighed, and the charge is $250 per coin. So, they want $2,000 to weigh the eight coins. I was told that the decision was made by the head of the variety department. I also got a message from a pattern grader who politely said that they don't put weights on labels unless I pay $250 and also get a full metallic analysis.

Can this possibly be right? Any suggestions about who I could talk to at PCGS to get them to weigh the coins? >>

There is a pretty easy solution if you ask me. Break out a cheap PCGS coin (maybe of a different type) and estimate the weight of the label, holder, and gasket. Then subtract this from the weight of the holdered patterns and estimate the weight +/- 0.05 grams or so. That sounds like a close enough tolerance for me. It's not like you need the information to authenticate the coin - PCGS has already done that for you.

coinguy1989 · February 7, 2015 4:38AM

<< How can they authenticate coins if they don't have the means to weigh them?

>>

+1

ebaybuyer · February 7, 2015 6:39AM

How can they authenticate coins if they don't have the means to weigh them?

AKFlyer · February 7, 2015 8:33PM

My earlier point (which has been ignored) is that the exact weight is something that PCGS should already be getting. Nothing special about taking a known characteristic of the coin and printing it on the label.

Solutions that involve weighing the slab and coin are not practical. You would then be assuming that the slabs all weigh exactly the same.

It doesn't sound unreasonable to get the weight of the coin. VERY accurate scales that measure to a tenth of a gram are commonplace. This isn't rocket surgery.

Remember the OP doesn't care about chemical composition, he merely wants the weight.

oreville · February 7, 2015 8:37PM

Seems like the real issue is putting the weight info on the label?

What about just getting a printout of the various weights and/or doing this within the PCGS photography section and getting it through the Tru-View program (or whatever it is called?)

Seems like PCGS could do this and charge an appropriate fee for doing this weighting service as well as charge for reholdering and the Tru-view photography.

While the weight would not be on the label, it could be listed on the PCGS web site?

Broadstruck · February 7, 2015 9:03PM

<< Solutions that involve weighing the slab and coin are not practical. You would then be assuming that the slabs all weigh exactly the same. >>

Slabs are injection molded and CNC machined to exact tolerances then just heat sealed.

So you would just need to know the weight of same diameter opening silicone gasket/prong & the paper label.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 7, 2015 10:09PM

Pay them with zinc cents. If you paid with copper it would really get costly

GRANDAM · February 7, 2015 10:46PM

The logical answer here would be to send the coin down to the mail room,,,,,, I am sure they could handle the job

GrandAm

PCGS wants $250 to weigh a coin!

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