what do you think this coin collecting philosophy?

jcping

This is to limit to R6 or higher coins (aka coins you won't see everyday). Many coin dealers educated us that we should buy one that we can accept first and then upgrade later. In many cases, this is an expensive way to collect coins since selling "rare coins" might still take financial loss (I know some pros can always make money but this is not true for majority of us) since R6 or higher coins won't be cheap and if you don't know the folks who collect similar series, you have to count on specialty dealers or auction houses to sell them for you. You know the buyer's premium is also from you too

Another strategy is to look for the best that you can afford. You might have to wait for 20 - 40 years to locate it

savoyspecial

Sounds like just another Get Poor Quick Scheme

DaveG

The best coin collecting philosophy I've ever come across is to become an expert in the series you want to collect and to buy the coins that you know that other collectors will also want to buy now and in the future.

If you do that, you'll know when to focus on R6 or higher coins or whether to buy now and upgrade later or to buy the best you can afford.

BryceM

Collect what you like.

Have fun.

Avoid paying the stupid tax by educating yourself.

Understand the difference between scarcity, desirability, liquidity, and demand. Each impacts your eventual exit strategy, should that be important to you.

rec78

Sounds more like an investment strategy then a collecting philosophy. I never went with the upgrade thing. I just buy the right grade the first time or patiently wait until one comes along. Why buy a coin that is easily available for upgrading and then replace it later? Never understood the reasoning behind it unless it is a rare and hardly ever seen in the grade that you want coin.

Bob

dogwood

In my primary interest of Barbers, that would limit me to as few as 4 very expensive coins. I owned a '13s quarter in PC53 for a few months but it was too much coin for me.
In seated quarters, in which I've dabbled, there would be what, a dozen issues? And a lot of hands reaching for them with fat wads of cash!
I'm toying with a couple of other series that might have a condition rarity of a key date or two in R6.
That leaves a lot of fun worthy coins on the table that you'd exclude from consideration.
Personally I've been happiest in R4-R5 territory.
I suppose if you liked Bust die marriages and odd varieties, you could get some cherry picks and make a nice hobby of things in R6.
Very interesting question.

291fifth

Over 50 years of collecting has convinced me that the best philosophy is: "Think like a dealer, buy like a dealer, avoid irrational exuberance and never, never pay retail."

leothelyon

Why this thread made me think of, "jokers"?? There are coins coveted that I wouldn't keep in a jar. The soul of coins, is crossing paths of those who think like you. And many do not, they're really missing that boat.

joecopper

Pick a series or type that is of interest, become an expert, buy coins that others will want (even in the lower grades), and position yourself to sell when you want, not when you have too.
If fate steps in, accept it.

TwoSides2aCoin

I buy what I like and like what I buy. I ain't all into "my ____ is bigger than your _____"

That's how a lot of boys approach every game.

Nap

Depends what you're collecting. Are you talking about rare varieties or rare dates? I'm sure many capped bust half variety collectors have cherry picked out R4+ Overton varieties off eBay and other venues without breaking the bank. There is one gold coin collector here who specifically looks for gold coins with "less than 100 known (or certified?)" and while certain issues are obviously expensive, there are still bargains to be found in that realm.

Move to ancient or world coins and there are lots of truly rare coins that can be collected on a modest budget.

I think it's a good idea to have a few "rare" coins, whether it be truly rare, a rare variety, conditionally rare, toning rare, or just eye-appeal rare. These are likely to make your collection stand out, even if it is just a state of mind. But to limit your collecting to only R6+ coins? Even 1794 dollars, stellas, and $50 Pan-Pacs are not R6. I think looking only for these rare issues may prove frustrating, expensive, time-consuming, and leaves you with a collection that's hard for others to appreciate.

410a

Nap..............better you wrote it than I.

sparky64

Not a philosophy I'd consider but to each his own.
Doesn't sound like much fun.

BillJones

I don't care for R-6 rated coins at high prices for the most part unless it happens to be an item I need for a collection I am forming. I am one of those collectors who can enjoy a common coin or token that has a good story behind it just as much or usually more than a rare coin that nothing else going for it other than rarity.

The trouble is an R-6 date and mint mark combination is usually all outdoors expensive, unless it is in rotten condition. Even then something like a 1901-S Barber quarter can cost you a small fortune in an unappealing grade like AG-3.

If it is a rare die variety within a series, it can also be expensive if it is a popular series like half cents, large cents or Bust half dollars. When it comes time to sell, you are dependent upon specialist collectors to bail you out, which narrows the playing field. I'm not saying that these items are illiquid, but sometimes you are the mercy of a small number of collectors and dealers.

If it is a rare variety within a series that is not extensively collected by die variety, you might "cherry pick" one cheap, but getting the money out of it is harder. Also pieces that are rated as rare in a lightly collected series might turn out to be more common than first thought as more collectors and dealers look for them.

Overall I'm no fan of this collecting philosophy. It is actually practiced by a number of people who collect Civil War tokens. Those guy won't collect anything that has a rarity rating lower than R-6. To me they are missing out on a lot of interesting material, but it doesn't matter how many neat stories you can relate to them about some of the more common pieces, you usually can't budge them in their "rarities only" obsession.

Sonorandesertrat

I also agree with Nap. Placing such a limitation on one's collection means that there will be significant dry spells, times when nothing can be found to add to the collection. What should one do then? More importantly, this is a recipe for losing interest in numismatics and exiting the hobby. R6+ coins might work for an investor with a casual interest in coins, but this strategy won't work well more many collectors.

roadrunner

This is a 2 edged sword. You can make almost ANY coin an R6 if you whittle it down to the smallest amount of remaining coins. In a 1901-s Barber quarter that's probably an R-1 by date (>2600 known) and "common as dirt" to an Overton variety collector. For an R6 (30 or less known) you'd probably need an MS63-MS65 coin to meet that rarity. In business strike seated quarters by date and mint (not varieties) probably only 1 coin qualifies for an R6....the 1873-cc NA quarter....and some collectors might even consider than a variety since the WA 1873-cc is not an R6 by total survivors. So to make R6 affordable you'd have to specify a grade range. Many seated quarters are R6 in unc and even XF or higher. There are a number of inexpensive R6 seated quarter and half varieties out there that are currently not all that popular.

The point is, selecting "R6" as a panacea is not going to work until you define it a lot more precisely. And even then there's no guarantee that your target area is guaranteed to do well for you down the road. >95% of the collectors on this forum cannot afford R6 coins unless they head into varieties or more esoteric areas of the coin market where current demand is quite low. In MS66 to MS68 plenty of Ike dollars are R6. Who can say if those will be winners down the road? I also think there's plenty of potential in mainstream coins in the R3 to R4 range too (76-500 coins). Common Morgan dollar toners with a specific look can be R6 as well. No formula is guaranteed.

ebaybuyer

there is no "one size fits all" approach to this hobby, is this in regards to R6 by date or R6 by variety ? major difference in the two

roadrunner

....you have to count on specialty dealers or auction houses to sell them for you. You know the buyer's premium is also from you too

While technically true, the 17.5% buyer's fee doesn't come out of the consignor's pockets if they have a sizable collection of R6 coins. That will be negotiated down along with the seller's fee to a net 88-94% of the prices realized. If your R6 coins happen to include a group of big time rarities worth $50K to $100K or more each, you might get closer to 95-96% of the final prices realized. We all know the buyer's fee comes out of the seller's pocket, but in essence overall consignor fees of worthwhile collections haven't changed all that much in the past 20 years. My net was around 87-90% back in the later 1980's and about 88-92% over the past 10 years.

jcping

Thanks for a lot of feedback. I understand to collect R6 + only coins could be boring since you can only find a few a year and many could be out of your wallet can reach. We coin collectors got spoiled because of rare coin quantity. For many other collecting area (classical painting is a good example), you are lucky to purchase a few a year.

I randomly pick R6 + since they are not every day's coins. They can be grade rarity, die variety, mint-mark, toning rarity or anything you want to define. Usually, you saw them once 3 to 10 years. I also saw many buy one you can accept and upgrade later promotion from major dealers. Personally I don't like this way to collect coins but I saw so many collectors fall into this mouse trap and burn a lot of their collecting fund. I just tried to open a thread for us to discuss here

Is there any US coin series that contain a lot of R6, say over 40%, (to me Unique = 1, R8 = 2-3, R7 = 4-12, R6 = 13-30)? the answer is definitely, yes.

jmski52

If R-6 gets you a nice coin, yes. If it is prohibitive for your budget, don't go there. Unless the coin has historical significance, I go for condition and eye appeal - mainly because that's the niche that gives me relative satisfaction.

ricko

Coin collecting is either a hobby or a business - for some, it can be both. For those of us for which it is a hobby, we make our own rules, and enjoy the coins we acquire. Cheers, RickO

Baley

I'll answer this one , the same spirit as most of my "collecting philosophy" answers, that the group of coins forming the collection ideally for me have some cohesiveness, something that relates the pieces and makes the sum greater than the whole. So, a nice type set, in which all of the coins have identifiable differences and span a certain time period, the goal being one representative of each type. Or a set of coins comprising a series, where the collector has assembled one of each date, or for more advanced sets, the major, minor, or All (!) known die varieties, and maybe even a discovery or two.

It's why I'm not a big fan of current series or other "open ended" sets, sure, a group of R6 or other coins would be cool, whether they're all really R6, or "in this condition" R6 but otherwise common, either way, I think there should still be some controlling theme, otherwise it's just a group of various coin types and dates in various conditions? Sounds more like an "inventory" than a collection, but I guess it would depend on the details of which coin the collector chooses to add to the group, and whether the goal is the completion of a challenging project, or more based on intended return of capital investment

Broadstruck

I wouldn't get too hung up on rarity rating scales as most are obsolete once published.

There's some more common R-1 & 2's that frequent the market far less then R-7 & 8's.

cladking

Rarity is a major component of all collectors' estimations of the importance and value
of a specimen but it really shouldn't be the be all end all of desirability and importance
for one's collection. You can collect rare transportation token varieties that cost literally
pennies apiece and get a lot of satisfaction but they won't impress other collectors, even
those who collect tokens. Lots of rare coins can be collected very cheaply but if they don't
appeal to you than why bother?

The best bet is probably to just collect what appeals to you and be willing to stretch a bit to
buy the rarer or higher quality specimens. The reason collectors tend to do better in the long
run is they have the rarer pieces and the higher quality pieces that are in more demand.

There's nothing wrong with a "box of twenty" concept if that's what appeals to you.

MrEureka

Before you decide on a "collecting philosophy" or strategy, you need to set a primary goal. And depending on the primary goal, the strategy could easily vary.

For example, I collect the coins in my sig line. My primary goal is to build the best possible set, which is a very ambitious but possibly attainable goal. Therefore, I avoid buying coins that I would probably get to upgrade later, and I'm very aggressive when it comes to buying once-in-a-lifetime coins.

I'm also in the early stages of a new collection where my goal is very different. The primary goal is to learn the series, and I have no chance of building a great collection. Therefore, I'll happily buy improvable coins, and I have yet to pay "moon money" for something I need.

Same collector, but very different "philosophies".

winky

Buy the best you can afford and upgrade later. Sometimes you may not get all you paid for the one you trade but at least it is a stepping stone.

JCMhouston

<< <i>Before you decide on a "collecting philosophy" or strategy, you need to set a primary goal. >>



Uh-oh, I failed.

LindeDad

Sounds like a investment philosophy not a coin collecting plan.

MrEureka

<< Before you decide on a "collecting philosophy" or strategy, you need to set a primary goal. >>



Uh-oh, I failed.



JCM - I'm not convinced. Do you really have a strategy without a goal?

mozin

I wish I had started serious collecting with coins of higher grade. Now, I have lots of dups, some of which I could not sell without a loss, even after owning them for twenty years.

jcping

> Now, I have lots of dups, some of which I could not sell without a loss, even after owning them for twenty years.


This is exactly the purpose of this thread. R6 is just a random number I put on table and folks are too over-reacting on it. R6 does not mean you only collect R6 or rare coins.
What I tried to say is that "when you see a true rare coins and it is acceptable to you (I did not say for investment purpose) but you know you will try to upgrade later, will you buy it?"

I can understand that there is no "yes or no" answer. I would like to see your comment on this "buy it now and upgrade later philosophy."

leothelyon

Well, I guess this would be the best topic in a long while to post this but....
The eye appeal of a MS65 graded coin can (but not very often, I must add) out class most coins that have been graded MS67 so.......why upgrade? But yeah, post whenever I can to promote some rare quality coins......rarely does anyone ever want to talk about them. hmmm

Oh, almost forgot! duh