<< <i>MANY other teams? And, what jealousy would that be?
And, I'm aware of the Brad Johnson issue. However, isn't his an individual rather than the organization? >>
The Brad Johnson footballs were still technically legal........ they were just worked up as he wanted them.
I think the Patriots have some explaining to do with SpyGate and this Deflate-Gate or #Shrinkage.
It is funny that the Patriots try to play within the rules with their bush league eligible vs. ineligible receivers in the Ravens game by stating that it was within the rules (it is, but not within the spirit of the rules without the defense being informed in a timely manner) yet they skirt the written rules with deflating the footballs. It is clear they are hypocrites and will do anything to win. I know all teams look for an edge but they go beyond the line that other teams do...... and by doing so they are inviting and deserving of the criticism they receive. >>
How about people like YOU who are so uptite about every little thing and look to criticize every little thing that isnt perfect are just crybabys? Your complaining about them playing within the rules during the Ravens game and calling it Bush league at the same time? Gimme a freaking break.
As I said, many players have doctored the ball before and now the topic comes up after a 45-7 blowout victory by the Patriots- most of the damage was done on the ground btw and they are all bad guys and cheaters, I bet 95% of the players had no clue about the dam ball being deflated or inflated let alone Belichek. As I said if the ball was deflated and Indy lost by 2 points on a game winning FG attempt then it would be a valid point to argue but the reality is that it had ZERO effect on the outcome of the game, pretty much most of the Indy players are not even complaining about it because they know that the better team won.
If you dont like the Patiots thats fine but carry the torch against eveyone not just them. >>
Classy move, Perk. I criticize a football team that just so happened to be yours and you personalize it at me.
I'll take it as a badge of honor that I want things to be better in this world as you apparently are fine with the status quo.
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
Those who support the Patriots in this incident or who say the entire matter is of no significance have only two arguments: 1) The Patriots would have won regardless, and 2) Everyone else cheats.
Both arguments are entirely specious. Both are purely speculative and not at all relevant. We will never know if the Patriots would have won the game without the deflated balls, and we don't know if everyone else cheats. Assuming all teams cheat, that doesn't mean one shouldn't face consequences if they are caught.
What many here fail to realize or simply won't admit is that embarrassments like this call into question the very integrity of the game. D'Qwell Jackson, a linebacker who rarely gets to handle a football, immediately noticed the difference between the one he intercepted from Brady and one that is typically used in a game. This should make one wonder why the officials, who handle before every snap the game balls provided by both teams, didn't recognize the difference. It is not unreasonable to wonder if they willingly overlooked the problem, and then to ask why they would do so.
I'm not suggesting the officials willfully participated in cheating for the Patriots, but it's not at all illogical to believe they did, or simply to wonder about the possibility. There is far too much money involved in NFL football for the League to idly stand by while there are incidents that could potentially call into question the legitimacy of the sport. When I say money involved, I'm not talking about gambling. There are ticket sales, tv revenue, corporate sponsorships, apparel sales, and a host of other things. If enough incidents like this were to happen and enough people began questioning the League's legitimacy, fans and others who support the NFL could leave in droves. I would not be at all interested in watching NFL football if I thought the games were as rigged as professional wrestling.
Now, I don't believe for a second that the games are not legitimate, but I'm sure that is a very big reason why the League takes such matters seriously. They can't afford to have the integrity of the games called into question.
Like the Raiders old motto, if you arent cheating you aint trying! I don't blame them, curious to see if Seattle is a real up and coming dynasty. I don't think too many people are jealous of a franchise with a .500 margin in super bowls except maybe Bills and Vikings fans!
<< <i>Meh...typical sour grapes reaction. The Pats have been easy to hate for the last decade. Reminds of how everyone hated the 49ers in the 80s. >>
I don't recall the Pats winning a Super Bowl the last decade....their "run" was long ago and the Brady era is coming to a close.
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>MANY other teams? And, what jealousy would that be?
And, I'm aware of the Brad Johnson issue. However, isn't his an individual rather than the organization? >>
The Brad Johnson footballs were still technically legal........ they were just worked up as he wanted them.
I think the Patriots have some explaining to do with SpyGate and this Deflate-Gate or #Shrinkage.
It is funny that the Patriots try to play within the rules with their bush league eligible vs. ineligible receivers in the Ravens game by stating that it was within the rules (it is, but not within the spirit of the rules without the defense being informed in a timely manner) yet they skirt the written rules with deflating the footballs. It is clear they are hypocrites and will do anything to win. I know all teams look for an edge but they go beyond the line that other teams do...... and by doing so they are inviting and deserving of the criticism they receive. >>
How about people like YOU who are so uptite about every little thing and look to criticize every little thing that isnt perfect are just crybabys? Your complaining about them playing within the rules during the Ravens game and calling it Bush league at the same time? Gimme a freaking break.
As I said, many players have doctored the ball before and now the topic comes up after a 45-7 blowout victory by the Patriots- most of the damage was done on the ground btw and they are all bad guys and cheaters, I bet 95% of the players had no clue about the dam ball being deflated or inflated let alone Belichek. As I said if the ball was deflated and Indy lost by 2 points on a game winning FG attempt then it would be a valid point to argue but the reality is that it had ZERO effect on the outcome of the game, pretty much most of the Indy players are not even complaining about it because they know that the better team won.
If you dont like the Patiots thats fine but carry the torch against eveyone not just them. >>
Classy move, Perk. I criticize a football team that just so happened to be yours and you personalize it at me.
I'll take it as a badge of honor that I want things to be better in this world as you apparently are fine with the status quo. >>
Criticize the Patriots all you want but dont talk in circles saying "They played by the rules but it is bush league"
And as far as me personalizing it I stand by what I said, I think your over the top in alot of things you post here. Call me classless for that if you want I truly dont care, and Im 100% OK with status quo on things that dont need to be made a big deal out of.
I said winning the Super Bowl and yes it is about over for Brady....
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
Respond to Brett's post while you are it. Pretty well said in my opinion.
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
How about any team caught cheating forfeits the game? Seems to me that would deter some cheating. Of course it wouldn't help if the cheaters weren't caught in time during the playoffs, but after watching the Vikings get beat by New Orleans in a pathetic example of a sporting event, I would declare the Colts the winner.
Belichick needs to be banned as well, he has a track record of cheating and continues to cheat.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
did anyone else notice the brief delay before the game's first play from scrimmage? the officials held up play temporarily, signaled for play to proceed, called time again and then switched footballs. apparently, the opening kickoff football was ready to be put into play, but then a dry game ball was sent in.
who was responsible for managing the footballs on the sideline and subsequently handed the ball to the official? and for that matter, if there was a greater suspicion about the Pats using doctored balls, wouldn't the zebras have noticed something just by persistently handling them during the game? these dudes handle footballs - PROPERLY INFLATED footballs for that matter - like, all freekin season. wouldn't they have noticed if those game balls were funny?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
FOX Sports' Jay Glazer reports the Ravens tipped off the Colts about the Patriots' alleged practice of deflating footballs. The NFL reportedly planned to test the Patriots' footballs at halftime, entering the AFC Championship game. There is still debate about whether a team would truly benefit from deflated footballs among players and NFL types. Either way, it's clear opponents have noticed a difference in the air inflating balls the Patriots have played with. The NFL's investigation is "ongoing."
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>How about any team caught cheating forfeits the game? Seems to me that would deter some cheating. Of course it wouldn't help if the cheaters weren't caught in time during the playoffs, but after watching the Vikings get beat by New Orleans in a pathetic example of a sporting event, I would declare the Colts the winner.
Belichick needs to be banned as well, he has a track record of cheating and continues to cheat. >>
This is on Brady if anybody. Last I checked Belichick hasn't thrown a pass in awhile.
My guess is just every quarterback in the NFL over or under inflates.
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
One thing for certain this season has been a PR nightmare for the NFL.
The handling of Ray Rice
The Lions getting hosed in Dallas
The iffy Calvin Johnson/Dez Bryant completing the process rule coming up at pivotal time
And now this
It's a good thing the brand is strong
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I will tell you what really gets my goat... Why didnt they cheat when they played the Chiefs? Did they feel that we were not good enough to consider cheating? Should I be offended? Im mad as heck!!! .... but Im not sure I should be
Considering all teams work or rough up the balls to their own liking, this is such a non issue.
The balls are inspected and handled by officials, so no big deal.
Is this worthy of considering it cheating and enough to tarnish the legacy of Brady or the Pats? Heck no. It is more akin to certain home teams cutting their grass to tailor to their team's strength, the home team using the snow plow in that one game for the guy to kick the field goal, home teams using artificial noise, messing with heat, light, air...or teams putting balls in humidifiers.
All that stuff is understood as part of the game, and isn't really considered cheating like your uncle might have done by having a stash of $100 bills under his chair in a game of Monopoly.
This would not be nearly as big a deal if a losing team had done this. A slap on the wrist. Perhaps a policy to see it does not happen again. I don't believe Brady said anything to help this go away.
If the NFL gives NE a penalty I hope it's after the SB, I don't want anything messing with this game. what's the appropriate punishment if guilty? I'm thinking a fine and lose a middle round draft pick. Or is that to harsh?
<< <i> I'm thinking a fine and lose a middle round draft pick. Or is that to harsh? >>
Oh yes, way to harsh. Perhaps Brady should be required to write "I will not cheat" 25 times on the clubhouse whiteboard. That will certainly make anyone in the NFL think twice before defaming the great game.
I believe Brady. I believe Belichick. If somebody can prove otherwise so be it and I'll eat crow.
Not everything is as nefarious as some of you make it out to be. Must be he77. Haters will hate, that much I get.
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I believe Brady. I believe Belichick. If somebody can prove otherwise so be it and I'll eat crow.
Not everything is as nefarious as some of you make it out to be. Must be he77. Haters will hate, that much I get.
MJ >>
Brady has a press conference today and a reporter asks him if the NFL has interviewed him about it and he says no.
Is there even an investigation ? If it was a big deal you would think they would have popped over and asked him a few questions about it, its Thursday its been 4 days .
The whole bit about 11 of 12 balls being 2 PSI under didn't come from the NFL directly. In fact they haven't said anything at all directly.
<< <i>MANY other teams? And, what jealousy would that be?
And, I'm aware of the Brad Johnson issue. However, isn't his an individual rather than the organization? >>
The Brad Johnson footballs were still technically legal........ they were just worked up as he wanted them.
I think the Patriots have some explaining to do with SpyGate and this Deflate-Gate or #Shrinkage.
It is funny that the Patriots try to play within the rules with their bush league eligible vs. ineligible receivers in the Ravens game by stating that it was within the rules (it is, but not within the spirit of the rules without the defense being informed in a timely manner) yet they skirt the written rules with deflating the footballs. It is clear they are hypocrites and will do anything to win. I know all teams look for an edge but they go beyond the line that other teams do...... and by doing so they are inviting and deserving of the criticism they receive. >>
How about people like YOU who are so uptite about every little thing and look to criticize every little thing that isnt perfect are just crybabys? Your complaining about them playing within the rules during the Ravens game and calling it Bush league at the same time? Gimme a freaking break.
As I said, many players have doctored the ball before and now the topic comes up after a 45-7 blowout victory by the Patriots- most of the damage was done on the ground btw and they are all bad guys and cheaters, I bet 95% of the players had no clue about the dam ball being deflated or inflated let alone Belichek. As I said if the ball was deflated and Indy lost by 2 points on a game winning FG attempt then it would be a valid point to argue but the reality is that it had ZERO effect on the outcome of the game, pretty much most of the Indy players are not even complaining about it because they know that the better team won.
If you dont like the Patiots thats fine but carry the torch against eveyone not just them. >>
Classy move, Perk. I criticize a football team that just so happened to be yours and you personalize it at me.
I'll take it as a badge of honor that I want things to be better in this world as you apparently are fine with the status quo. >>
Criticize the Patriots all you want but dont talk in circles saying "They played by the rules but it is bush league"
And as far as me personalizing it I stand by what I said, I think your over the top in alot of things you post here. Call me classless for that if you want I truly dont care, and Im 100% OK with status quo on things that dont need to be made a big deal out of. >>
So as a person who is a member of a federally recognized Indian Tribe in our nation and I object to Native American mascots my opinion on what I think is "over the top".......interesting..... I show a photo of students from Oklahoma State making a reference to the Trail of Tears on a sports sign and you have no clue and you had no idea what it meant. I find it curious for you to call my thinking "over the top" when I easily could have called you "ignorant" on certain issues but choose to not communicate in that style.
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
"How about people like YOU who are so uptite about every little thing and look to criticize every little thing that isnt perfect........."
I think you are referencing my stance on mascots and the current Patriots cheating here.....anything else I am missing?
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>Is there even an investigation ? If it was a big deal you would think they would have popped over and asked him a few questions about it, its Thursday its been 4 days .
The whole bit about 11 of 12 balls being 2 PSI under didn't come from the NFL directly. In fact they haven't said anything at all directly.
>>
(8:22 a.m. ET Monday): "NFL spokesman Michael Signora told NFL Network the league is looking into the Patriots' apparent use of overly deflated footballs during Sunday's 45-7 AFC title game win over the Colts."
(8:22 a.m. ET Monday): "NFL spokesman Michael Signora told NFL Network the league is looking into the Patriots' apparent use of overly deflated footballs during Sunday's 45-7 AFC title game win over the Colts." >>
Well wouldn't step 1 be to talk to Brady? If balls were tampered with I would think he would be the one to do it , so I'd go to him and ask some questions. Regardless of some peon taking a bullet over it you know the QB is the one who said this is how I want them.
What kind of investigation are they running where they don't talk to the prime suspect ?
Now Dequell Jackson has come out and said he didn't notice anything wrong with the ball. It was widely reported that he was the one who alerted the coaching staff. The narrative is getting a little muddy.
Maybe he has changed his story because "THEY" got to him
You know I was thinking, if we're gonna make cheating with doctored balls such a big deal, does that mean Gaylord Perry's HOF plaque should be taken down?
Everybody forgets that the Chargers were caught using Stickum to improve grip on the ball in 2012 during a game against the Broncos. Google it and you'll see the same drama - loss of draft picks espoused by writers, cheating articles, etc.
<< <i>Everybody forgets that the Chargers were caught using Stickum to improve grip on the ball in 2012 during a game against the Broncos. Google it and you'll see the same drama - loss of draft picks espoused by writers, cheating articles, etc.
The result? $20,000 fine and forgotten. >>
Well no one hates the Chargers though , its tough to think of any reason to frankly.
Stan Humphries reminded me of Opie from Andy Griffith , that bothers me a little but I can't muster up actual hate over it.
The NFL, goodell, def has to interview Brady. The public fallout would be enormous. Sportscasters, writers, reporters wouldn't stop.
Sooo, the only reason I can think of in why they haven't interviewed Brady yet is...they're just getting all the info, evidence they can first. Then they'll present it all to him at once and let him try to explain or refute all the evidence or testimony against him. Versus just going in early, blind, asking did you do it? He says no. End of interview. Just like then mess of a press conference that just occurred.
By waiting, it leads me to believe they think he def has something to do with it and is not all that innocent.And he may have some things to explain.
Meanwhile, everyone just passes the buck. In this case, I think it stops with Brady.
Interested in higher grade vintage cards. Aren't we all.
<< <i>You know I was thinking, if we're gonna make cheating with doctored balls such a big deal, does that mean Gaylord Perry's HOF plaque should be taken down? >>
nah. he's a harmless ol' country boy.
point shaving is bad, though. they should level Rupp Arena for that.
Those suggesting a loss of draft picks are assuming the NFL is going to finish their investigation by the time the draft rolls around. They may have to take away 2017 picks at the rate they conduct their investigations. In any event, it most definitely will not be concluded before the Super Bowl is played, especially if it is determined that Brady doctored the footballs.
In light of the Sport Science feature on ESPN, I find it totally plausible that Brady had no idea the balls were underinflated, given how little the football "squished" (about 1mm!) when the Sport Science guy deflated them to 10.5 psi. I find it way more plausible that the refs didn't check the balls thoroughly (or at all).
Regardless, there are two things I find extremely comical about this story. One is the hate towards the Patriots from both writers (that Belichick has repeatedly treated like trash) and NFL players (that the Pats have consistently dominated). The "outrage" (whether false or real) makes them all look really petty. The other funny thing is that writers don't realize that 2 psi does not equal 2 lbs of weight. The ball itself doesn't even weigh 1 lb. I've lost count of how many columns I've read wondering how Brady couldn't feel the difference of "2 lbs weight difference" in the balls used in the first and second halves.
<< <i>Everybody forgets that the Chargers were caught using Stickum to improve grip on the ball in 2012 during a game against the Broncos. Google it and you'll see the same drama - loss of draft picks espoused by writers, cheating articles, etc.
The result? $20,000 fine and forgotten. >>
Well no one hates the Chargers though , its tough to think of any reason to frankly.
Stan Humphries reminded me of Opie from Andy Griffith , that bothers me a little but I can't muster up actual hate over it. >>
don't say no one hates the Chargers. Patriots fans do
This shouldn't even be a rule that can be violated. Still confused as to why there is any consideration into QB preference on balls. Why doesn't the NFL just own the balls, make them equal for each game? There's no need for a QB to approve game balls. They could even switch ball bags at the half, if there was concern over it. But whether this was intentional or circumstantial it's an unfortunate way to enter the Super Bowl, and the quality of game balls should be purely on the NFL and not the teams or a player. At least that's my 2 cents.
52-90 All Sports, Mostly Topps, Mostly HOF, and some assorted wax.
I have no opinion on innocence or guilty. IMO Tom Brady seemed sincere during his interview I saw.
I am not an expert on micro facial analysis to see if there is any subliminal expressions indicating truth or no truth of his answers. Anybody get any info on this?????
On the argument that the Pats would have easily won anyways......are the balls inflated and checked for air pressure before they game? If so the cheating occurred without any actual knowledge of the outcome. The intent to change the outcome of the game is in question. Does air press have that much affect on performance in a pass. I can see it affect a kick.
I wonder why baseball pitchers throw back a ball if they don't like the seam stitching.......
Hmmmmm in auto racing cars are inspected thoroughly before a race and very very well after a win
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>You know I was thinking, if we're gonna make cheating with doctored balls such a big deal, does that mean Gaylord Perry's HOF plaque should be taken down? >>
No.
Batters who thought he was using doctored balls could have them examined on the spot and punishment at the time was to simply throw out the ball and put another one in play.
According to former MLB umpire Ron Luciano, if officials instructed him to eject pitcher, he would have, but it wasn't taken very seriously then, so it shouldn't be an issue now.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
<< <i>How about any team caught cheating forfeits the game? Seems to me that would deter some cheating. Of course it wouldn't help if the cheaters weren't caught in time during the playoffs, but after watching the Vikings get beat by New Orleans in a pathetic example of a sporting event, I would declare the Colts the winner.
Belichick needs to be banned as well, he has a track record of cheating and continues to cheat. >>
This is on Brady if anybody. Last I checked Belichick hasn't thrown a pass in awhile.
My guess is just every quarterback in the NFL over or under inflates.
MJ >>
Perhaps a BIT harsh on Belichic, but as head coach he is responsible for the actions of his players. He certainly looks like a TOTAL control freak to me, so I doubt Brady would do anything without tacit approval from the boss.
You can guess all you want, I doubt if every quarterback does it. This looks like it will be proven if it hasn't already.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
For those who remember their high school physics, PV=nRT (the ideal gas law). Ignore V,n and R - those are (relatively) constant. What you're left with is that (P)ressure is proportional to (T)emperature. If you inflate a football in a locker room, or better yet, in or near the showers, the air that you're putting into the football is very warm. Inflate it to 12.5 PSI, then take that ball out into the cold and the air itself will cool, resulting in a drop in pressure proportional to the drop in temperature. You have to use absolute temperatures in the formula, so if the temperature of the air used to inflate the ball was 90 degrees and the outdoor temperature was 50 degrees, that's a drop from 305 degrees Kelvin to 283 degrees Kelvin, or a drop of 7.3%. To see what a drop in temperature of 7.3% does to a football, you also need to account for the atmospheric pressure. When we say that a ball is inflated to 12.5 PSI, what we mean is that the pressure inside the ball is 12.5 PSI greater than the pressure outside the ball. Standard atmospheric pressure is about 14.7 PSI. So the absolute pressure of the football is not 12.5 PSI, it is 12.5 + 14.7 PSI, or 27.2 PSI. Reduce 27.2 PSI by 7.3% and you get 25.2 PSI. Subtract the atmospheric pressure of 14.7 PSI and you get 10.5 PSI.
Thus, there is no need to remove air from a football to get it's air pressure to reduce from 12.5 to 10.5 PSI. Simply inflate it using air that is 40 degrees warmer than the outdoor temperature. Now, all that said, I don't know if there are rules regarding the conditions used to inflate the ball. If there are, and if this is what NE did, then it could still be cheating. But if the rules don't specify that balls must be inflated outdoors, in conditions similar to those that will exist at game time, then well played NE! Being more clever than your opponents is not cheating.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
<< <i>For those who remember their high school physics, PV=nRT (the ideal gas law). Ignore V,n and R - those are (relatively) constant. What you're left with is that (P)ressure is proportional to (T)emperature. If you inflate a football in a locker room, or better yet, in or near the showers, the air that you're putting into the football is very warm. Inflate it to 12.5 PSI, then take that ball out into the cold and the air itself will cool, resulting in a drop in pressure proportional to the drop in temperature. You have to use absolute temperatures in the formula, so if the temperature of the air used to inflate the ball was 90 degrees and the outdoor temperature was 50 degrees, that's a drop from 305 degrees Kelvin to 283 degrees Kelvin, or a drop of 7.3%. To see what a drop in temperature of 7.3% does to a football, you also need to account for the atmospheric pressure. When we say that a ball is inflated to 12.5 PSI, what we mean is that the pressure inside the ball is 12.5 PSI greater than the pressure outside the ball. Standard atmospheric pressure is about 14.7 PSI. So the absolute pressure of the football is not 12.5 PSI, it is 12.5 + 14.7 PSI, or 27.2 PSI. Reduce 27.2 PSI by 7.3% and you get 25.2 PSI. Subtract the atmospheric pressure of 14.7 PSI and you get 10.5 PSI.
Thus, there is no need to remove air from a football to get it's air pressure to reduce from 12.5 to 10.5 PSI. Simply inflate it using air that is 40 degrees warmer than the outdoor temperature. Now, all that said, I don't know if there are rules regarding the conditions used to inflate the ball. If there are, and if this is what NE did, then it could still be cheating. But if the rules don't specify that balls must be inflated outdoors, in conditions similar to those that will exist at game time, then well played NE! Being more clever than your opponents is not cheating. >>
<< <i>For those who remember their high school physics, PV=nRT (the ideal gas law). Ignore V,n and R - those are (relatively) constant. What you're left with is that (P)ressure is proportional to (T)emperature. If you inflate a football in a locker room, or better yet, in or near the showers, the air that you're putting into the football is very warm. Inflate it to 12.5 PSI, then take that ball out into the cold and the air itself will cool, resulting in a drop in pressure proportional to the drop in temperature. You have to use absolute temperatures in the formula, so if the temperature of the air used to inflate the ball was 90 degrees and the outdoor temperature was 50 degrees, that's a drop from 305 degrees Kelvin to 283 degrees Kelvin, or a drop of 7.3%. To see what a drop in temperature of 7.3% does to a football, you also need to account for the atmospheric pressure. When we say that a ball is inflated to 12.5 PSI, what we mean is that the pressure inside the ball is 12.5 PSI greater than the pressure outside the ball. Standard atmospheric pressure is about 14.7 PSI. So the absolute pressure of the football is not 12.5 PSI, it is 12.5 + 14.7 PSI, or 27.2 PSI. Reduce 27.2 PSI by 7.3% and you get 25.2 PSI. Subtract the atmospheric pressure of 14.7 PSI and you get 10.5 PSI.
Thus, there is no need to remove air from a football to get it's air pressure to reduce from 12.5 to 10.5 PSI. Simply inflate it using air that is 40 degrees warmer than the outdoor temperature. Now, all that said, I don't know if there are rules regarding the conditions used to inflate the ball. If there are, and if this is what NE did, then it could still be cheating. But if the rules don't specify that balls must be inflated outdoors, in conditions similar to those that will exist at game time, then well played NE! Being more clever than your opponents is not cheating. >>
90 degrees? Who inflates footballs in the shower? If balls were inflated with 90 degree air it was intentional and just as much of a cheat as simply deflating them. They cheated.........they got caught.
Nice physics lesson though!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
<< <i>no one even cares anymore, lets play the game >>
Nobody cares to suggest it might be the NFL's fault, I'm reading that nobody recorded the numbers before the game started like they were supposed too so no way to prove one way or another if the Pats had anything to do with this.
I don't buy the "different temperature when inflated vs. ambient temp outside" argument. Both teams inflated their balls inside... so unless NE has a special pump that pumps out superheated air, then both teams' balls would have lost pressure by an equivalent amount. Why no change whatsoever in the footballs used by IND?
<< <i>90 degrees? Who inflates footballs in the shower? If balls were inflated with 90 degree air it was intentional and just as much of a cheat as simply deflating them. They cheated.........they got caught.
Nice physics lesson though! >>
Hey, I just posted the physics lesson for its own sake - I couldn't care less who wins this Super Bowl or how tight Tom Brady's balls are. But point of order - if there is no rule against inflating a ball with 90 degree air, then inflating a ball with 90 degree air - intentional or not - is NOT cheating. And I don't think there's a rule against it.
I've also since read that all but one of the balls was actually only one pound under the limit, which would mean it was inflated with 70 degree air - or room temperature. If, as another poster said, every team inflates their balls indoors, then balls losing one pound of pressure - or two or more in Green Bay in January - absolutely must have been happening routinely for decades. The only thing unusual about this latest episode is that someone actually "noticed". This is a scandal manufactured out of nothing at all.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>MANY other teams? And, what jealousy would that be?
And, I'm aware of the Brad Johnson issue. However, isn't his an individual rather than the organization? >>
The Brad Johnson footballs were still technically legal........ they were just worked up as he wanted them.
I think the Patriots have some explaining to do with SpyGate and this Deflate-Gate or #Shrinkage.
It is funny that the Patriots try to play within the rules with their bush league eligible vs. ineligible receivers in the Ravens game by stating that it was within the rules (it is, but not within the spirit of the rules without the defense being informed in a timely manner) yet they skirt the written rules with deflating the footballs. It is clear they are hypocrites and will do anything to win. I know all teams look for an edge but they go beyond the line that other teams do...... and by doing so they are inviting and deserving of the criticism they receive. >>
How about people like YOU who are so uptite about every little thing and look to criticize every little thing that isnt perfect are just crybabys? Your complaining about them playing within the rules during the Ravens game and calling it Bush league at the same time? Gimme a freaking break.
As I said, many players have doctored the ball before and now the topic comes up after a 45-7 blowout victory by the Patriots- most of the damage was done on the ground btw and they are all bad guys and cheaters, I bet 95% of the players had no clue about the dam ball being deflated or inflated let alone Belichek. As I said if the ball was deflated and Indy lost by 2 points on a game winning FG attempt then it would be a valid point to argue but the reality is that it had ZERO effect on the outcome of the game, pretty much most of the Indy players are not even complaining about it because they know that the better team won.
If you dont like the Patiots thats fine but carry the torch against eveyone not just them. >>
Classy move, Perk. I criticize a football team that just so happened to be yours and you personalize it at me.
I'll take it as a badge of honor that I want things to be better in this world as you apparently are fine with the status quo.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
Both arguments are entirely specious. Both are purely speculative and not at all relevant. We will never know if the Patriots would have won the game without the deflated balls, and we don't know if everyone else cheats. Assuming all teams cheat, that doesn't mean one shouldn't face consequences if they are caught.
What many here fail to realize or simply won't admit is that embarrassments like this call into question the very integrity of the game. D'Qwell Jackson, a linebacker who rarely gets to handle a football, immediately noticed the difference between the one he intercepted from Brady and one that is typically used in a game. This should make one wonder why the officials, who handle before every snap the game balls provided by both teams, didn't recognize the difference. It is not unreasonable to wonder if they willingly overlooked the problem, and then to ask why they would do so.
I'm not suggesting the officials willfully participated in cheating for the Patriots, but it's not at all illogical to believe they did, or simply to wonder about the possibility. There is far too much money involved in NFL football for the League to idly stand by while there are incidents that could potentially call into question the legitimacy of the sport. When I say money involved, I'm not talking about gambling. There are ticket sales, tv revenue, corporate sponsorships, apparel sales, and a host of other things. If enough incidents like this were to happen and enough people began questioning the League's legitimacy, fans and others who support the NFL could leave in droves. I would not be at all interested in watching NFL football if I thought the games were as rigged as professional wrestling.
Now, I don't believe for a second that the games are not legitimate, but I'm sure that is a very big reason why the League takes such matters seriously. They can't afford to have the integrity of the games called into question.
Reminds of how everyone hated the 49ers in the 80s.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
<< <i>Meh...typical sour grapes reaction. The Pats have been easy to hate for the last decade.
Reminds of how everyone hated the 49ers in the 80s. >>
I don't recall the Pats winning a Super Bowl the last decade....their "run" was long ago and the Brady era is coming to a close.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>MANY other teams? And, what jealousy would that be?
And, I'm aware of the Brad Johnson issue. However, isn't his an individual rather than the organization? >>
The Brad Johnson footballs were still technically legal........ they were just worked up as he wanted them.
I think the Patriots have some explaining to do with SpyGate and this Deflate-Gate or #Shrinkage.
It is funny that the Patriots try to play within the rules with their bush league eligible vs. ineligible receivers in the Ravens game by stating that it was within the rules (it is, but not within the spirit of the rules without the defense being informed in a timely manner) yet they skirt the written rules with deflating the footballs. It is clear they are hypocrites and will do anything to win. I know all teams look for an edge but they go beyond the line that other teams do...... and by doing so they are inviting and deserving of the criticism they receive. >>
How about people like YOU who are so uptite about every little thing and look to criticize every little thing that isnt perfect are just crybabys? Your complaining about them playing within the rules during the Ravens game and calling it Bush league at the same time? Gimme a freaking break.
As I said, many players have doctored the ball before and now the topic comes up after a 45-7 blowout victory by the Patriots- most of the damage was done on the ground btw and they are all bad guys and cheaters, I bet 95% of the players had no clue about the dam ball being deflated or inflated let alone Belichek. As I said if the ball was deflated and Indy lost by 2 points on a game winning FG attempt then it would be a valid point to argue but the reality is that it had ZERO effect on the outcome of the game, pretty much most of the Indy players are not even complaining about it because they know that the better team won.
If you dont like the Patiots thats fine but carry the torch against eveyone not just them. >>
Classy move, Perk. I criticize a football team that just so happened to be yours and you personalize it at me.
I'll take it as a badge of honor that I want things to be better in this world as you apparently are fine with the status quo. >>
Criticize the Patriots all you want but dont talk in circles saying "They played by the rules but it is bush league"
And as far as me personalizing it I stand by what I said, I think your over the top in alot of things you post here. Call me classless for that if you want I truly dont care, and Im 100% OK with status quo on things that dont need to be made a big deal out of.
<< <i>
<< <i>Meh...typical sour grapes reaction. The Pats have been easy to hate for the last decade.
Reminds of how everyone hated the 49ers in the 80s. >>
I don't recall the Pats winning a Super Bowl the last decade....their "run" was long ago and the Brady era is coming to a close. >>
Their "Run" was long ago? Playoff appearences every year, AFC Championship games, going to their 6th Super Bowl and they were done long ago? OK
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>They get caught doing what many other teams have done and get blown up because of jealousy pure and simple.. >>
Remarkable that cheating in professional sports is tolerated and even accepted, yet we still believe that outcomes are above corruption.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>I said winning the Super Bowl and yes it is about over for Brady.... >>
Ok, rings aside. 126 wins from 2003 to 2012 sounds like a pretty good decade to me.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
Belichick needs to be banned as well, he has a track record of cheating and continues to cheat.
who was responsible for managing the footballs on the sideline and subsequently handed the ball to the official? and for that matter, if there was a greater suspicion about the Pats using doctored balls, wouldn't the zebras have noticed something just by persistently handling them during the game? these dudes handle footballs - PROPERLY INFLATED footballs for that matter - like, all freekin season. wouldn't they have noticed if those game balls were funny?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The NFL reportedly planned to test the Patriots' footballs at halftime, entering the AFC Championship game. There is still debate about whether a team would truly benefit from deflated footballs among players and NFL types. Either way, it's clear opponents have noticed a difference in the air inflating balls the Patriots have played with. The NFL's investigation is "ongoing."
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>How about any team caught cheating forfeits the game? Seems to me that would deter some cheating. Of course it wouldn't help if the cheaters weren't caught in time during the playoffs, but after watching the Vikings get beat by New Orleans in a pathetic example of a sporting event, I would declare the Colts the winner.
Belichick needs to be banned as well, he has a track record of cheating and continues to cheat. >>
This is on Brady if anybody. Last I checked Belichick hasn't thrown a pass in awhile.
My guess is just every quarterback in the NFL over or under inflates.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
The handling of Ray Rice
The Lions getting hosed in Dallas
The iffy Calvin Johnson/Dez Bryant completing the process rule coming up at pivotal time
And now this
It's a good thing the brand is strong
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Did they feel that we were not good enough to consider cheating? Should I be offended? Im
mad as heck!!! .... but Im not sure I should be
<< <i>One thing for certain this season has been a PR nightmare for the NFL.
The handling of Ray Rice
The Lions getting hosed in Dallas
The iffy Calvin Johnson/Dez Bryant completing the process rule coming up at pivotal time
And now this
It's a good thing the brand is strong
MJ >>
Spot on.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
<< <i>Meh...typical sour grapes reaction. The Pats have been easy to hate for the last decade.
Reminds of how everyone hated the 49ers in the 80s. >>
I was a fan of the 49ers in the 1980's. Raiders and Denver as well. Living in Detroit at the time....had to root for somebody.
The balls are inspected and handled by officials, so no big deal.
Is this worthy of considering it cheating and enough to tarnish the legacy of Brady or the Pats? Heck no. It is more akin to certain home teams cutting their grass to tailor to their team's strength, the home team using the snow plow in that one game for the guy to kick the field goal, home teams using artificial noise, messing with heat, light, air...or teams putting balls in humidifiers.
All that stuff is understood as part of the game, and isn't really considered cheating like your uncle might have done by having a stash of $100 bills under his chair in a game of Monopoly.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
My new website www.lowgradegems.com
Tim
<< <i> I'm thinking a fine and lose a middle round draft pick. Or is that to harsh? >>
Oh yes, way to harsh. Perhaps Brady should be required to write "I will not cheat" 25 times on the clubhouse whiteboard. That will certainly make anyone in the NFL think twice before defaming the great game.
Not everything is as nefarious as some of you make it out to be. Must be he77. Haters will hate, that much I get.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I believe Brady. I believe Belichick. If somebody can prove otherwise so be it and I'll eat crow.
Not everything is as nefarious as some of you make it out to be. Must be he77. Haters will hate, that much I get.
MJ >>
Brady has a press conference today and a reporter asks him if the NFL has interviewed him about it and he says no.
Is there even an investigation ? If it was a big deal you would think they would have popped over and asked him a few questions about it, its Thursday its been 4 days .
The whole bit about 11 of 12 balls being 2 PSI under didn't come from the NFL directly. In fact they haven't said anything at all directly.
I'm thinking nothing comes of this at all
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>MANY other teams? And, what jealousy would that be?
And, I'm aware of the Brad Johnson issue. However, isn't his an individual rather than the organization? >>
The Brad Johnson footballs were still technically legal........ they were just worked up as he wanted them.
I think the Patriots have some explaining to do with SpyGate and this Deflate-Gate or #Shrinkage.
It is funny that the Patriots try to play within the rules with their bush league eligible vs. ineligible receivers in the Ravens game by stating that it was within the rules (it is, but not within the spirit of the rules without the defense being informed in a timely manner) yet they skirt the written rules with deflating the footballs. It is clear they are hypocrites and will do anything to win. I know all teams look for an edge but they go beyond the line that other teams do...... and by doing so they are inviting and deserving of the criticism they receive. >>
How about people like YOU who are so uptite about every little thing and look to criticize every little thing that isnt perfect are just crybabys? Your complaining about them playing within the rules during the Ravens game and calling it Bush league at the same time? Gimme a freaking break.
As I said, many players have doctored the ball before and now the topic comes up after a 45-7 blowout victory by the Patriots- most of the damage was done on the ground btw and they are all bad guys and cheaters, I bet 95% of the players had no clue about the dam ball being deflated or inflated let alone Belichek. As I said if the ball was deflated and Indy lost by 2 points on a game winning FG attempt then it would be a valid point to argue but the reality is that it had ZERO effect on the outcome of the game, pretty much most of the Indy players are not even complaining about it because they know that the better team won.
If you dont like the Patiots thats fine but carry the torch against eveyone not just them. >>
Classy move, Perk. I criticize a football team that just so happened to be yours and you personalize it at me.
I'll take it as a badge of honor that I want things to be better in this world as you apparently are fine with the status quo. >>
Criticize the Patriots all you want but dont talk in circles saying "They played by the rules but it is bush league"
And as far as me personalizing it I stand by what I said, I think your over the top in alot of things you post here. Call me classless for that if you want I truly dont care, and Im 100% OK with status quo on things that dont need to be made a big deal out of. >>
So as a person who is a member of a federally recognized Indian Tribe in our nation and I object to Native American mascots my opinion on what I think is "over the top".......interesting..... I show a photo of students from Oklahoma State making a reference to the Trail of Tears on a sports sign and you have no clue and you had no idea what it meant. I find it curious for you to call my thinking "over the top" when I easily could have called you "ignorant" on certain issues but choose to not communicate in that style.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
I think you are referencing my stance on mascots and the current Patriots cheating here.....anything else I am missing?
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>Is there even an investigation ? If it was a big deal you would think they would have popped over and asked him a few questions about it, its Thursday its been 4 days .
The whole bit about 11 of 12 balls being 2 PSI under didn't come from the NFL directly. In fact they haven't said anything at all directly.
>>
(8:22 a.m. ET Monday): "NFL spokesman Michael Signora told NFL Network the league is looking into the Patriots' apparent use of overly deflated footballs during Sunday's 45-7 AFC title game win over the Colts."
<< <i>
(8:22 a.m. ET Monday): "NFL spokesman Michael Signora told NFL Network the league is looking into the Patriots' apparent use of overly deflated footballs during Sunday's 45-7 AFC title game win over the Colts." >>
Well wouldn't step 1 be to talk to Brady? If balls were tampered with I would think he would be the one to do it , so I'd go to him and ask some questions. Regardless of some peon taking a bullet over it you know the QB is the one who said this is how I want them.
What kind of investigation are they running where they don't talk to the prime suspect ?
Now Dequell Jackson has come out and said he didn't notice anything wrong with the ball. It was widely reported that he was the one who alerted the coaching staff. The narrative is getting a little muddy.
Maybe he has changed his story because "THEY" got to him
Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
The result? $20,000 fine and forgotten.
Bosox1976
<< <i>Everybody forgets that the Chargers were caught using Stickum to improve grip on the ball in 2012 during a game against the Broncos. Google it and you'll see the same drama - loss of draft picks espoused by writers, cheating articles, etc.
The result? $20,000 fine and forgotten. >>
Well no one hates the Chargers though , its tough to think of any reason to frankly.
Stan Humphries reminded me of Opie from Andy Griffith , that bothers me a little but I can't muster up actual hate over it.
Sooo, the only reason I can think of in why they haven't interviewed Brady yet is...they're just getting all the info, evidence they can first. Then they'll present it all to him at once and let him try to explain or refute all the evidence or testimony against him. Versus just going in early, blind, asking did you do it? He says no. End of interview. Just like then mess of a press conference that just occurred.
By waiting, it leads me to believe they think he def has something to do with it and is not all that innocent.And he may have some things to explain.
Meanwhile, everyone just passes the buck. In this case, I think it stops with Brady.
<< <i>You know I was thinking, if we're gonna make cheating with doctored balls such a big deal, does that mean Gaylord Perry's HOF plaque should be taken down? >>
nah. he's a harmless ol' country boy.
point shaving is bad, though. they should level Rupp Arena for that.
In light of the Sport Science feature on ESPN, I find it totally plausible that Brady had no idea the balls were underinflated, given how little the football "squished" (about 1mm!) when the Sport Science guy deflated them to 10.5 psi. I find it way more plausible that the refs didn't check the balls thoroughly (or at all).
Regardless, there are two things I find extremely comical about this story. One is the hate towards the Patriots from both writers (that Belichick has repeatedly treated like trash) and NFL players (that the Pats have consistently dominated). The "outrage" (whether false or real) makes them all look really petty. The other funny thing is that writers don't realize that 2 psi does not equal 2 lbs of weight. The ball itself doesn't even weigh 1 lb. I've lost count of how many columns I've read wondering how Brady couldn't feel the difference of "2 lbs weight difference" in the balls used in the first and second halves.
<< <i>
<< <i>Everybody forgets that the Chargers were caught using Stickum to improve grip on the ball in 2012 during a game against the Broncos. Google it and you'll see the same drama - loss of draft picks espoused by writers, cheating articles, etc.
The result? $20,000 fine and forgotten. >>
Well no one hates the Chargers though , its tough to think of any reason to frankly.
Stan Humphries reminded me of Opie from Andy Griffith , that bothers me a little but I can't muster up actual hate over it. >>
don't say no one hates the Chargers. Patriots fans do
I am not an expert on micro facial analysis to see if there is any subliminal expressions indicating
truth or no truth of his answers. Anybody get any info on this?????
On the argument that the Pats would have easily won anyways......are the balls inflated and checked for air pressure
before they game? If so the cheating occurred without any actual knowledge of the outcome. The intent to change the outcome of the game is in
question.
Does air press have that much affect on performance in a pass. I can see it affect a kick.
I wonder why baseball pitchers throw back a ball if they don't like the seam stitching.......
Hmmmmm in auto racing cars are inspected thoroughly before a race and very very well after a win
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>You know I was thinking, if we're gonna make cheating with doctored balls such a big deal, does that mean Gaylord Perry's HOF plaque should be taken down? >>
No.
Batters who thought he was using doctored balls could have them examined on the spot and punishment at the time was to simply throw out the ball and put another one in play.
According to former MLB umpire Ron Luciano, if officials instructed him to eject pitcher, he would have, but it wasn't taken very seriously then, so it shouldn't be an issue now.
<< <i>
<< <i>How about any team caught cheating forfeits the game? Seems to me that would deter some cheating. Of course it wouldn't help if the cheaters weren't caught in time during the playoffs, but after watching the Vikings get beat by New Orleans in a pathetic example of a sporting event, I would declare the Colts the winner.
Belichick needs to be banned as well, he has a track record of cheating and continues to cheat. >>
This is on Brady if anybody. Last I checked Belichick hasn't thrown a pass in awhile.
My guess is just every quarterback in the NFL over or under inflates.
MJ >>
Perhaps a BIT harsh on Belichic, but as head coach he is responsible for the actions of his players. He certainly looks like a TOTAL control freak to me, so I doubt Brady would do anything without tacit approval from the boss.
You can guess all you want, I doubt if every quarterback does it. This looks like it will be proven if it hasn't already.
If you inflate a football in a locker room, or better yet, in or near the showers, the air that you're putting into the football is very warm. Inflate it to 12.5 PSI, then take that ball out into the cold and the air itself will cool, resulting in a drop in pressure proportional to the drop in temperature. You have to use absolute temperatures in the formula, so if the temperature of the air used to inflate the ball was 90 degrees and the outdoor temperature was 50 degrees, that's a drop from 305 degrees Kelvin to 283 degrees Kelvin, or a drop of 7.3%. To see what a drop in temperature of 7.3% does to a football, you also need to account for the atmospheric pressure. When we say that a ball is inflated to 12.5 PSI, what we mean is that the pressure inside the ball is 12.5 PSI greater than the pressure outside the ball. Standard atmospheric pressure is about 14.7 PSI. So the absolute pressure of the football is not 12.5 PSI, it is 12.5 + 14.7 PSI, or 27.2 PSI. Reduce 27.2 PSI by 7.3% and you get 25.2 PSI. Subtract the atmospheric pressure of 14.7 PSI and you get 10.5 PSI.
Thus, there is no need to remove air from a football to get it's air pressure to reduce from 12.5 to 10.5 PSI. Simply inflate it using air that is 40 degrees warmer than the outdoor temperature. Now, all that said, I don't know if there are rules regarding the conditions used to inflate the ball. If there are, and if this is what NE did, then it could still be cheating. But if the rules don't specify that balls must be inflated outdoors, in conditions similar to those that will exist at game time, then well played NE! Being more clever than your opponents is not cheating.
<< <i>For those who remember their high school physics, PV=nRT (the ideal gas law). Ignore V,n and R - those are (relatively) constant. What you're left with is that (P)ressure is proportional to (T)emperature.
If you inflate a football in a locker room, or better yet, in or near the showers, the air that you're putting into the football is very warm. Inflate it to 12.5 PSI, then take that ball out into the cold and the air itself will cool, resulting in a drop in pressure proportional to the drop in temperature. You have to use absolute temperatures in the formula, so if the temperature of the air used to inflate the ball was 90 degrees and the outdoor temperature was 50 degrees, that's a drop from 305 degrees Kelvin to 283 degrees Kelvin, or a drop of 7.3%. To see what a drop in temperature of 7.3% does to a football, you also need to account for the atmospheric pressure. When we say that a ball is inflated to 12.5 PSI, what we mean is that the pressure inside the ball is 12.5 PSI greater than the pressure outside the ball. Standard atmospheric pressure is about 14.7 PSI. So the absolute pressure of the football is not 12.5 PSI, it is 12.5 + 14.7 PSI, or 27.2 PSI. Reduce 27.2 PSI by 7.3% and you get 25.2 PSI. Subtract the atmospheric pressure of 14.7 PSI and you get 10.5 PSI.
Thus, there is no need to remove air from a football to get it's air pressure to reduce from 12.5 to 10.5 PSI. Simply inflate it using air that is 40 degrees warmer than the outdoor temperature. Now, all that said, I don't know if there are rules regarding the conditions used to inflate the ball. If there are, and if this is what NE did, then it could still be cheating. But if the rules don't specify that balls must be inflated outdoors, in conditions similar to those that will exist at game time, then well played NE! Being more clever than your opponents is not cheating. >>
EXACTLY!
<< <i>For those who remember their high school physics, PV=nRT (the ideal gas law). Ignore V,n and R - those are (relatively) constant. What you're left with is that (P)ressure is proportional to (T)emperature.
If you inflate a football in a locker room, or better yet, in or near the showers, the air that you're putting into the football is very warm. Inflate it to 12.5 PSI, then take that ball out into the cold and the air itself will cool, resulting in a drop in pressure proportional to the drop in temperature. You have to use absolute temperatures in the formula, so if the temperature of the air used to inflate the ball was 90 degrees and the outdoor temperature was 50 degrees, that's a drop from 305 degrees Kelvin to 283 degrees Kelvin, or a drop of 7.3%. To see what a drop in temperature of 7.3% does to a football, you also need to account for the atmospheric pressure. When we say that a ball is inflated to 12.5 PSI, what we mean is that the pressure inside the ball is 12.5 PSI greater than the pressure outside the ball. Standard atmospheric pressure is about 14.7 PSI. So the absolute pressure of the football is not 12.5 PSI, it is 12.5 + 14.7 PSI, or 27.2 PSI. Reduce 27.2 PSI by 7.3% and you get 25.2 PSI. Subtract the atmospheric pressure of 14.7 PSI and you get 10.5 PSI.
Thus, there is no need to remove air from a football to get it's air pressure to reduce from 12.5 to 10.5 PSI. Simply inflate it using air that is 40 degrees warmer than the outdoor temperature. Now, all that said, I don't know if there are rules regarding the conditions used to inflate the ball. If there are, and if this is what NE did, then it could still be cheating. But if the rules don't specify that balls must be inflated outdoors, in conditions similar to those that will exist at game time, then well played NE! Being more clever than your opponents is not cheating. >>
90 degrees? Who inflates footballs in the shower? If balls were inflated with 90 degree air it was intentional and just as much of a cheat as simply deflating them. They cheated.........they got caught.
Nice physics lesson though!
<< <i>no one even cares anymore, lets play the game >>
Nobody cares to suggest it might be the NFL's fault, I'm reading that nobody recorded the numbers before the game started like they were supposed too so no way to prove one way or another if the Pats had anything to do with this.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>90 degrees? Who inflates footballs in the shower? If balls were inflated with 90 degree air it was intentional and just as much of a cheat as simply deflating them. They cheated.........they got caught.
Nice physics lesson though! >>
Hey, I just posted the physics lesson for its own sake - I couldn't care less who wins this Super Bowl or how tight Tom Brady's balls are. But point of order - if there is no rule against inflating a ball with 90 degree air, then inflating a ball with 90 degree air - intentional or not - is NOT cheating. And I don't think there's a rule against it.
I've also since read that all but one of the balls was actually only one pound under the limit, which would mean it was inflated with 70 degree air - or room temperature. If, as another poster said, every team inflates their balls indoors, then balls losing one pound of pressure - or two or more in Green Bay in January - absolutely must have been happening routinely for decades. The only thing unusual about this latest episode is that someone actually "noticed". This is a scandal manufactured out of nothing at all.