So do you think this indian is worth trying to upgrade?

bsshog40 · January 17, 2015 2:33PM

I've looked at a few of these and I think this is a great 62. BUT, do you think it is worth trying to see if it would go up a grade?

Moldnut · January 17, 2015 2:36PM

In that grade range it could very well end up in an AU holder. I would keep it where it is.

Barndog · January 17, 2015 2:37PM

seems there is enough spread from 62 to 63 to make a few tries worth your while

Timbuk3 · January 17, 2015 2:55PM

Definitely a shot at 63 !!!

CoinJunkie · January 17, 2015 3:33PM

<< In that grade range it could very well end up in an AU holder. I would keep it where it is. >>

That could only happen with a crackout. Any sane person would use the regrade service.

darktone · January 17, 2015 5:26PM

It will need luster to get a 63. It looks kind of flat from the picture.

roadrunner · January 17, 2015 10:58PM

62 to 63 is a very precarious grade jump in Indian gold. I've tried it half a dozen times on $2-1/2/$5 Indians I thought were no brainers and ended up lucky to get them back in 62 holders after several attempts. Some of them stayed in AU58 holders. Wouldn't even consider sending this one back in, esp. being an NGC 62. And the spread on 62 to 63 coins has shrunk a lot the past 3 years. About the only way I'd consider it these days is if I got to a fresh deal that I know had been off the market since the 1990's.

Based on the photos, this one doesn't scream MS63 to me.

lcoopie · January 17, 2015 11:11PM

Might have been interesting to have worded your thread guess the grade.

I might have guessed 58.

crypto79 · January 17, 2015 11:17PM

<< It will need luster to get a 63. It looks kind of flat from the picture. >>

Walkerguy21D · January 18, 2015 12:03AM

Looks like a darn nice coin.....I've heard multiple times these are tough coins to grade; it seems the money to be made is
finding those currently in AU58 holders, cracking them, and getting them into 62 and 63 holders. Guessing this is a more
recently holdered example, it may already be max'ed out via multiple submissions? Just wild speculation on my part, as I'm
no student of the series. As far as surfaces go, if it were a Morgan or something else and this mark-free, it would be graded higher.

s4ny · January 18, 2015 12:54AM

Agree that it is a sharp strike but lacks luster. Leave it.

bsshog40 · January 18, 2015 12:55AM

Some good points guys! I think I'll leave it be. Thanks again!

TwoSides2aCoin · January 18, 2015 1:18AM

Have been buying raw most of my life and only submitting to PCGS. On a few occasions where I purchased the slabbed coins and opted to "cross" at any grade , trusting PCGS graders, I've been a little disappointed, particularly with Morgans and incuse gold. Let's face it. Look at us. We are so nitpicky that we analyze to the Nth degree. Don't we ?

It's the "guy" in us. We aren't going to be bamboozled. So with that said, when the coin is in your hand and meets your standard, Toss out the number on the slab and say " oooooh, I like this coin". And if you like it you know bro… that's what we keep, for real… or only give up when someone else says "Ill pay you THIS much for it ".

And coins are the best hobby to me because of that little known fact…. And we always have "money", with our stupid habit and hobbies this way. … even if it doesn't make sense to anyone else in the whole wide world.

I'm getting a new kitchen this year because I WANT ONE.

And P.S. That song and your dedication to "wife" has always struck my fancy, man…. Just saying.

Cougar1978 · January 18, 2015 1:38AM

I would leave it where it is unless it will not be cracked out and all your out is the submission fee if it does not cross / upgrade. Its too big ticket a coin to risk like that. I would be concerned it would come back AU.

Additionally I don't believe it has the luster to make MS63. I wish I could see in hand bc I would want take closer look at feathers on reverse for slight wear.

It appears to be a nice average Unc (MS62). I agree with the grade on the holder.

BillJones · January 18, 2015 1:38AM

The two and half and five dollar Indian gold coins are among the most difficult coins to grade. What constitutes the flat areas from stacking, which might not qualify as a rub, and what constitutes circulation marks? The graders disagree. One time a coin that looks like a slider can end up in a lower end Mint State holder. The next time it will be graded AU. You can't predict it. The biggest upgrade I ever got on a crack-out was on a $5 Indian that jumped from AU-58 to MS-63!

When I picked this piece out for you at an auction I thought that it was as nice as some of the MS-63 graded coins I had seen. The main thing was the luster, as others have mentioned. The satin finish is due to the state of the dies, not any cleaning or circulation. I think that the grading services get too hung up on the luster thing. A piece with bright luster and lots of marks can get a MS-63 while a coin with subdued luster, original surfaces and very few marks gets something lower. I don't agree with that, but the grading services call the tune and we dance to it if we choose.

ColonelJessup · January 18, 2015 2:34AM

<< The two and half and five dollar Indian gold coins are among the most difficult coins to grade. What constitutes the flat areas from stacking, which might not qualify as a rub, and what constitutes circulation marks? The graders disagree. One time a coin that looks like a slider can end up in a lower end Mint State holder. The next time it will be graded AU. You can't predict it. The biggest upgrade I ever got on a crack-out was on a $5 Indian that jumped from AU-58 to MS-63!

When I picked this piece out for you at an auction I thought that it was as nice as some of the MS-63 graded coins I had seen. The main thing was the luster, as others have mentioned. The satin finish is due to the state of the dies, not any cleaning or circulation. I think that the grading services get too hung up on the luster thing. A piece with bright luster and lots of marks can get a MS-63 while a coin with subdued luster, original surfaces and very few marks gets something lower. I don't agree with that, but the grading services call the tune and we dance to it if we choose. >>

+1

rkfish · January 18, 2015 2:55AM

don't tar and feather me but is it just me?? or maybe the lighting?? but based on those pics it almost has the appearance of having spent some time in a bezel?? must be the lighting.......and certainly not my series.

bsshog40 · January 18, 2015 3:21AM

<< don't tar and feather me but is it just me?? or maybe the lighting?? but based on those pics it almost has the appearance of having spent some time in a bezel?? must be the lighting.......and certainly not my series.

>>

More than likely the lighting. It's hard to photo these in the slab. No bezel marks.

PRECIOUSMENTAL · January 18, 2015 6:24AM

Just listened to 'One More Life.'
Thank You.
Brought out some needed tears.

winky · January 18, 2015 6:33AM

I would absolutely leave it alone, looks good.

rhedden · January 18, 2015 6:39AM

These are among of the toughest coins to grade in-hand. Forget about grading from photos. Looks like a nice piece, though!

ricko · January 18, 2015 6:55AM

I think...from the picture...it is a 62...but if you have the extra $$, then give it a shot - that will satisfy your 'itch'...and who know...you could get lucky. Cheers, RickO

Walkerfan · January 18, 2015 7:16AM

I like it as a very nice MS 62.

AMRC · January 18, 2015 7:19AM

Why not pay the $10 to see if it crosses? Nothing to lose but a few dollars and removes the need to listen to us!

bsshog40 · January 18, 2015 8:56AM

<< Why not pay the $10 to see if it crosses? Nothing to lose but a few dollars and removes the need to listen to us!

>>

bsshog40 · January 18, 2015 9:01AM

So if it doesn't upgrade then it would just cost $10 plus shipping right? If it meets the 62 grade then it would be grading fees and shipping? And if it upgrades to 63 then grading fees, shipping, and 1% of the new value??
Does this sound right?

lkeigwin · January 18, 2015 10:08AM

Standard grading fees apply whether the coin crosses or not.
Lance.

CoinJunkie · January 18, 2015 10:17AM

<< Standard grading fees apply whether the coin crosses or not. >>

PCGS may run their previous promotion again at some point where they waive the fees for DNC coins.
I'd probably wait for that with this coin.

bsshog40 · January 18, 2015 10:32AM

They are offering a $10 crossover special right now.

lkeigwin · January 18, 2015 11:04AM

I thought the quarterly special for Q1 was free True Views. I remember the crossover special from last year. I didn't know it was still going on.
Lance.

Moldnut · January 18, 2015 11:24AM

There appears to be a faint scratch going through the 2nd and 3rd lowest feathers that may have kept it in the current grade.

CoinJunkie · January 18, 2015 11:46AM

<< I thought the quarterly special for Q1 was free True Views. I remember the crossover special from last year. I didn't know it was still going on.
Lance. >>

I don't believe it is currently being offered, but I have a hunch it might be again at a future date.

joebb21 · January 18, 2015 11:49AM

notice the large scratch through the indians headpiece.

Lots of contact marks on the reverse.

leave it alone

So do you think this indian is worth trying to upgrade?

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