Home U.S. Coin Forum

So do you think this indian is worth trying to upgrade?

bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've looked at a few of these and I think this is a great 62. BUT, do you think it is worth trying to see if it would go up a grade?

image

Comments

  • MoldnutMoldnut Posts: 3,113 ✭✭✭✭
    In that grade range it could very well end up in an AU holder. I would keep it where it is.
    Derek

    EAC 6024
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,512 ✭✭✭✭✭
    seems there is enough spread from 62 to 63 to make a few tries worth your while
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Definitely a shot at 63 !!! image
    Timbuk3
  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>In that grade range it could very well end up in an AU holder. I would keep it where it is. >>


    That could only happen with a crackout. Any sane person would use the regrade service.
  • darktonedarktone Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭
    It will need luster to get a 63. It looks kind of flat from the picture.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    62 to 63 is a very precarious grade jump in Indian gold. I've tried it half a dozen times on $2-1/2/$5 Indians I thought were no brainers and ended up lucky to get them back in 62 holders after several attempts. Some of them stayed in AU58 holders. Wouldn't even consider sending this one back in, esp. being an NGC 62. And the spread on 62 to 63 coins has shrunk a lot the past 3 years. About the only way I'd consider it these days is if I got to a fresh deal that I know had been off the market since the 1990's.

    Based on the photos, this one doesn't scream MS63 to me.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,873 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Might have been interesting to have worded your thread guess the grade.

    I might have guessed 58.

    LCoopie = Les


  • << <i>It will need luster to get a 63. It looks kind of flat from the picture. >>

    image
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,627 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like a darn nice coin.....I've heard multiple times these are tough coins to grade; it seems the money to be made is
    finding those currently in AU58 holders, cracking them, and getting them into 62 and 63 holders. Guessing this is a more
    recently holdered example, it may already be max'ed out via multiple submissions? Just wild speculation on my part, as I'm
    no student of the series. As far as surfaces go, if it were a Morgan or something else and this mark-free, it would be graded higher.

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • s4nys4ny Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭
    Agree that it is a sharp strike but lacks luster. Leave it.
  • bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some good points guys! I think I'll leave it be. Thanks again!
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,513 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Have been buying raw most of my life and only submitting to PCGS. On a few occasions where I purchased the slabbed coins and opted to "cross" at any grade , trusting PCGS graders, I've been a little disappointed, particularly with Morgans and incuse gold. Let's face it. Look at us. We are so nitpicky that we analyze to the Nth degree. Don't we ?

    It's the "guy" in us. We aren't going to be bamboozled. So with that said, when the coin is in your hand and meets your standard, Toss out the number on the slab and say " oooooh, I like this coin". And if you like it you know bro… that's what we keep, for real… or only give up when someone else says "Ill pay you THIS much for it ".

    And coins are the best hobby to me because of that little known fact…. And we always have "money", with our stupid habit and hobbies this way. … even if it doesn't make sense to anyone else in the whole wide world.

    I'm getting a new kitchen this year because I WANT ONE. image

    And P.S. That song and your dedication to "wife" has always struck my fancy, man…. Just saying.
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would leave it where it is unless it will not be cracked out and all your out is the submission fee if it does not cross / upgrade. Its too big ticket a coin to risk like that. I would be concerned it would come back AU.

    Additionally I don't believe it has the luster to make MS63. I wish I could see in hand bc I would want take closer look at feathers on reverse for slight wear.

    It appears to be a nice average Unc (MS62). I agree with the grade on the holder.
    Coins & Currency
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,683 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The two and half and five dollar Indian gold coins are among the most difficult coins to grade. What constitutes the flat areas from stacking, which might not qualify as a rub, and what constitutes circulation marks? The graders disagree. One time a coin that looks like a slider can end up in a lower end Mint State holder. The next time it will be graded AU. You can't predict it. The biggest upgrade I ever got on a crack-out was on a $5 Indian that jumped from AU-58 to MS-63!

    When I picked this piece out for you at an auction I thought that it was as nice as some of the MS-63 graded coins I had seen. The main thing was the luster, as others have mentioned. The satin finish is due to the state of the dies, not any cleaning or circulation. I think that the grading services get too hung up on the luster thing. A piece with bright luster and lots of marks can get a MS-63 while a coin with subdued luster, original surfaces and very few marks gets something lower. I don't agree with that, but the grading services call the tune and we dance to it if we choose.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The two and half and five dollar Indian gold coins are among the most difficult coins to grade. What constitutes the flat areas from stacking, which might not qualify as a rub, and what constitutes circulation marks? The graders disagree. One time a coin that looks like a slider can end up in a lower end Mint State holder. The next time it will be graded AU. You can't predict it. The biggest upgrade I ever got on a crack-out was on a $5 Indian that jumped from AU-58 to MS-63!

    When I picked this piece out for you at an auction I thought that it was as nice as some of the MS-63 graded coins I had seen. The main thing was the luster, as others have mentioned. The satin finish is due to the state of the dies, not any cleaning or circulation. I think that the grading services get too hung up on the luster thing. A piece with bright luster and lots of marks can get a MS-63 while a coin with subdued luster, original surfaces and very few marks gets something lower. I don't agree with that, but the grading services call the tune and we dance to it if we choose. >>



    +1

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • rkfishrkfish Posts: 2,617 ✭✭✭
    don't tar and feather me but is it just me?? or maybe the lighting?? but based on those pics it almost has the appearance of having spent some time in a bezel?? must be the lighting.......and certainly not my series.image
    Steve

    Check out my PQ selection of Morgan & Peace Dollars, and more at:
    WWW.PQDOLLARS.COM or WWW.GILBERTCOINS.COM
  • bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>don't tar and feather me but is it just me?? or maybe the lighting?? but based on those pics it almost has the appearance of having spent some time in a bezel?? must be the lighting.......and certainly not my series.image >>


    More than likely the lighting. It's hard to photo these in the slab. No bezel marks.
  • PRECIOUSMENTALPRECIOUSMENTAL Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭
    Just listened to 'One More Life.'
    Thank You.
    Brought out some needed tears.
  • winkywinky Posts: 1,671
    I would absolutely leave it alone, looks good.
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,631 ✭✭✭✭✭
    These are among of the toughest coins to grade in-hand. Forget about grading from photos. Looks like a nice piece, though!
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think...from the picture...it is a 62...but if you have the extra $$, then give it a shot - that will satisfy your 'itch'...and who know...you could get lucky. Cheers, RickO
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like it as a very nice MS 62.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why not pay the $10 to see if it crosses? Nothing to lose but a few dollars and removes the need to listen to us! image
    MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
  • bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Why not pay the $10 to see if it crosses? Nothing to lose but a few dollars and removes the need to listen to us! image >>



  • bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So if it doesn't upgrade then it would just cost $10 plus shipping right? If it meets the 62 grade then it would be grading fees and shipping? And if it upgrades to 63 then grading fees, shipping, and 1% of the new value??
    Does this sound right?
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Standard grading fees apply whether the coin crosses or not.
    Lance.
  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Standard grading fees apply whether the coin crosses or not. >>


    PCGS may run their previous promotion again at some point where they waive the fees for DNC coins.
    I'd probably wait for that with this coin.
  • bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I thought the quarterly special for Q1 was free True Views. I remember the crossover special from last year. I didn't know it was still going on.
    Lance.
  • MoldnutMoldnut Posts: 3,113 ✭✭✭✭
    There appears to be a faint scratch going through the 2nd and 3rd lowest feathers that may have kept it in the current grade.
    Derek

    EAC 6024
  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I thought the quarterly special for Q1 was free True Views. I remember the crossover special from last year. I didn't know it was still going on.
    Lance. >>


    I don't believe it is currently being offered, but I have a hunch it might be again at a future date.
  • joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,763 ✭✭✭✭✭
    notice the large scratch through the indians headpiece.

    Lots of contact marks on the reverse.

    leave it alone
    may the fonz be with you...always...

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file