Petty issue, just caught me on the wrong day
lightningboy
Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭
Buyer wins a card from me for $22 less than average price according to VCP. I had $6 shipping/insurance down thinking it would sell for more. Finally hear from buyer 7 days after auction closes and he/she is questioning the amount of shipping. Tells me card should go first class and cost $1.93. I respond telling them why I had $6 in the first place and then agree to refund the difference down to $3.63. Responds back with "wrap with bubble wrap and 2 pieces of cardboard. shouldn't need insurance but ok"
My real question is Don't you take the shipping charge into account when you are bidding? I may be in the minority, but I never question shipping after I win because I built that into my cost already. Dissenting opinions welcome.
My real question is Don't you take the shipping charge into account when you are bidding? I may be in the minority, but I never question shipping after I win because I built that into my cost already. Dissenting opinions welcome.
0
Comments
Edit to add, don't mind reducing if multiple auction items won.
eBay Store
Greg Maddux #1 Master SetGreg Maddux #2 Basic Set
No, I just lowered the shipping down to actual cost plus insurance. So, I am covered. Thanks
<< <i>I would not have reduced the shipping as you just removed your safety net if something should happen to the item in transit and it either does not get delivered or does so damaged.
No, I just lowered the shipping down to actual cost plus insurance. So, I am covered. Thanks >>
After all the USPS horror stories recently, good to hear you aired on the side of caution.
eBay Store
Greg Maddux #1 Master SetGreg Maddux #2 Basic Set
ETA: I do expect discounts for combined shipping, though, if multiple items are won.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
That's exactly what I do too. Doesn't seem too complicated. Otherwise, ask about the shipping before you bid.
<< <i>. If a card is worth $30 to me and shipping is $6, my max bid is $24
That's exactly what I do too. Doesn't seem too complicated. Otherwise, ask about the shipping before you bid. >>
YUP.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
As a buyer I only ask for an invoice on multiples and if they decline I would never ask a guy to move off a price I expected to pay. As a seller I either ship free, or at below cost. Not interested in dealing with the alligator arm crowd always looking to save a dime.
<< <i>Personally, I think it's poor form to try and haggle shipping AFTER the auction ends. >>
+1
Scenario: card is listed for $100 BIN/BO with $8 shipping. You are willing to spend $80, but obviously as good self-interested capitalists you want as good of a deal as possible. You offer $60 and the buyer accepts.
Does everyone here immediately check out without any further contact with the seller?
---
My point of departure is that I think a lot of low-volume sellers really don't know what they're doing on eBay. I'd say about 2% of the listings I am interested have "local pick-up only" as the shipping method, even though they clearly intend to mail the item. Numerous sellers have one price listed for shipping in the actual listing and another different price in the written description. Even more, I know of several sellers that have multiple shipping options available to the buyer based on the buyer's preferences: registered, regular tracking, untracked. For international purchases (I buy a lot of hockey from Canada), this can be a big difference, frequently $18 vs. $4 or $3. When contacted, they will happily ship for $3 untracked - but you have to ask; the default is $18 Canada Post Express (or whatever that is called).
Given that, I ask - but I don't push, vaguely threaten, or act entitled to cheaper shipping. And, only in situations where the seller is asking an amount that is outside the norm. $6 wouldn't be outside the norm - it's a standard rate if the seller is buying insurance. $8+, without a special reason, implies to me that the seller is inexperienced and could ship cheaper. So, I ask. I don't feel a particular obligation to other bidders who wouldn't - it's a free market, after all. If a seller says that is the best they can do, I pay immediately and am not upset. After all, I calculated the higher end shipping cost into my decision to buy initially - but hoped that I could possibly do even better.
<< <i>Since it seems like I'm in the minority here, let me put it another way and see what your thoughts are...
Scenario: card is listed for $100 BIN/BO with $8 shipping. You are willing to spend $80, but obviously as good self-interested capitalists you want as good of a deal as possible. You offer $60 and the buyer accepts.
>>
So he's asking $100 + $8. You are willing to pay $80, but want a deal so you offer $60 + $8, well under your $80 and his $108. It gets accepted and then you go back and try to grind to $60+$6?
That doesn't make you a capitalist, opportunist maybe.
<< <i>I see the word "slimy" being tossed around in regard to buyers who ask for a lower shipping price, but no one seems to question the idea of making a profit of $2.37 off the shipping price. I understand the rationale behind the original charge of $6, but once the final value was determined, wouldn't the least-slimy thing be to send an invoice with a lower, actual amount for shipping + insurance? >>
I don't charge for shipping for this very reason, but can you help me understand how it's outrageous to make a profit of $2.37 on anything, much less shipping?
<< <i>So he's asking $100 + $8. You are willing to pay $80, but want a deal so you offer $60 + $8, well under your $80 and his $108. It gets accepted and then you go back and try to grind to $60+$6?
That doesn't make you a capitalist, opportunist maybe. >>
Or, to $60 + $3. I am willing to go higher, but always would prefer to pay as little as possible. Less money spent is more money for other good stuff. You say grind, I say it's basically burning money not to ask.
I should also add that, whenever possible, I ask in advance of purchase. Sometimes you stumble onto auctions late and it's not possible.
<< <i>
<< <i>I see the word "slimy" being tossed around in regard to buyers who ask for a lower shipping price, but no one seems to question the idea of making a profit of $2.37 off the shipping price. I understand the rationale behind the original charge of $6, but once the final value was determined, wouldn't the least-slimy thing be to send an invoice with a lower, actual amount for shipping + insurance? >>
I don't charge for shipping for this very reason, but can you help me understand how it's outrageous to make a profit of $2.37 on anything, much less shipping? >>
I don't remember using the word outrageous, but I'll play along. When I see a shipping charge, my expectation is that I am paying for the item to be delivered to my house. I have no problem accepting that cost. To call it "shipping and handling" and then add 65% to the actual cost is the most slimy thing of all, in my opinion. And I am NOT saying that is what the OP's intent was, just to be clear.
If you want to make a higher profit, charge more. Don't call it "shipping". There's a reason why one of the categories in eBay's rating system is "Shipping and Handling Charges". People don't appreciate being gouged on shipping.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I should also add that, whenever possible, I ask in advance of purchase. Sometimes you stumble onto auctions late and it's not possible. >>
I gotta take issue with the idea that it's extreme stinginess. Most sellers say either:
a) "oh, my mistake, shipping that high? weird, let me fix that"
or
b) "I am totally new here - I don't know what I'm doing, please help me"
or
c) "I regularly offer multiple shipping options - thank you for asking, you can certainly request a lower price shipping option with fewer amenities (decline insurance, decline tracking)"
I'm not out there trying to barter sellers from $3.50 to $3.00 with the looming threat of negative feedback.
If you NEVER ask, I guarantee you're wasting a non-insignificant amount of money because of seller listing errors.
ETA:I I suppose in the examples you presented where seller is either clueless or new to ebay you may have a point but those sellers are few and far between in my experience.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
In my listing it was called shipping/insurance.
To me it goes back to the basic --- if the shipping charge indicated is too high, simply don't bid or bid knowing you have to pay the stated amount.
<< <i>Well, now I feel like such a heathen! I'll have to think about it - but, for now, agree to disagree.
I do agree with you in that a seller charging $6.00 to ship a card first class with no insurance is out of line.
I suppose it's all relative to the situation at hand.
I just like to play devil"s advocate.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Personally, I think it's poor form to try and haggle shipping AFTER the auction ends. If the underbidder knew shipping was lower than stated, he might have bid a bit higher and won the item, too.
ETA: I do expect discounts for combined shipping, though, if multiple items are won. >>
+1
Don't come to me after you win an auction item of mine or hit a B.I.N.
aconte
<< <i>If you want to make a higher profit, charge more. Don't call it "shipping". There's a reason why one of the categories in eBay's rating system is "Shipping and Handling Charges". People don't appreciate being gouged on shipping.
In my listing it was called shipping/insurance.
To me it goes back to the basic --- if the shipping charge indicated is too high, simply don't bid or bid knowing you have to pay the stated amount. >>
Trust me, I was not talking about your listing. I think the conversation went on a little bit of a tangent with regard to shipping prices in general. I had no problem with your original scenario.
As for the second part of your statement, I don't have a problem with the S&H cost until it shows up and I realize I was gouged. If I pay $6, it had better have insurance and wrapped up like the Hope Diamond. If I pay $6 and see $2.50 in costs + materials, that frustrates me, because I realize I added to the seller's bottom line under the guise of S&H.
Same thing with sellers who have very high BIN prices - if they are not realistic I just don't do business with them. There are plenty of great sellers out there that are good to deal with so no need to deal with sellers who overcharge or are not pleasant to deal with.
As a seller, if I had the shipping listed fairly high, thinking my item would hit a certain level and didn't,
then I would automatically send an invoice with the lower shipping. In the OP's case, I would go from $6 to like $3-3.50
without insurance, well packaged in a padded mailer.
But that's me.
<< <i>Unless you plan to make money on shipping (scummy), I can't understand why people don't offer free shipping. Since eBay charges fees on the shipping amount, in the end, it is the same amount. Plus, customer satisfaction is MUCH higher and you do not have to deal with opportunists or your own mistakes. Just about everyone is saying people factor in the total cost. >>
Because I want to sell more than one item to each individual buyer. Buyers are much more likely to add items to their cart if they aren't paying the full shipping price for every single item.
That's exactly what I did. I charged the exact amount $3.67 that Ebay showed for first class and stated insurance.
<< <i>
<< <i>Unless you plan to make money on shipping (scummy), I can't understand why people don't offer free shipping. Since eBay charges fees on the shipping amount, in the end, it is the same amount. Plus, customer satisfaction is MUCH higher and you do not have to deal with opportunists or your own mistakes. Just about everyone is saying people factor in the total cost. >>
Because I want to sell more than one item to each individual buyer. Buyers are much more likely to add items to their cart if they aren't paying the full shipping price for every single item. >>
That is true. Also, in my experience, free shipping does not translate into higher bid prices, as long as shipping is reasonable.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I expect shipping discounts for multiple items won, if it's not clearly stated I ask BEFORE I bid on a bunch of items
When selling, I charge $5 shipping for single cards and do combine after that, but that's also for priority mail not first class, and generally includes a bubble mailer and/or top loaders, etc. - in reality, I lose money on shipping even at that price
I am considering going free shipping on all cards and just upping the opening/minimum bid
Anytime someone asks me for reduced shipping after the auction, or they instruct me on exactly how I should send them their item, I refund the money and cancel the transaction - it's not worth the trouble or the risk
Answer: NO
Why is that? because people on ebay dont just want to pay less than an item is worth, they want it for less than they agreed to buy it for in the first place. If a person buys an item that says $9 shipping, then you PAY $9 shipping, you dont ask for a deal afterwards. Most buyers forget that ebay takes 10% of the sale price, 10% of the shipping costs, they have listing fees, store fees, listing upgrade fees, etc etc. The if they are a higher volume seller, they get to pay taxes on the profit when you get that 1099 form in the mail. They are charging a set amount to get the item from THEM to YOU. Its not how much they pay USPS, its not the cost of packing, its not the cost to get to the post office, its how much they charge the buyer in which they will take responsibility for the item getting to you. Is $6 the OP charged little high? Probably, but the buyer agreed to it. Is the buyer a DB for asking for more money back? 100% YES!!!
<< <i>As a buyer I always add the price and shipping. If a card is worth $30 to me and shipping is $6, my max bid is $24 >>
+1
I have never asked a seller to lower the cost of shipping before or after an auction ends. If I ever do sell anything via ebay, I highly doubt I would lower my shipping rate.
If you don't like the shipping fee...DON'T BID!!
I also appreciate it when I receive items the same way or get excellent customer service. Anyone that has ever dealt with Jeff at Card Country or Steve at Baseball Card Exchange can attest to this fact. Their service is not just good it is outstanding - they go the extra mile without even blinking. I believe in finding people who treat you well and using them for most of your needs, and usually price will consistent with everyone else but the service is more personal and better.
<< <i>I see the word "slimy" being tossed around in regard to buyers who ask for a lower shipping price, but no one seems to question the idea of making a profit of $2.37 off the shipping price. I understand the rationale behind the original charge of $6, but once the final value was determined, wouldn't the least-slimy thing be to send an invoice with a lower, actual amount for shipping + insurance? >>
If it's clearly stated as the shipping cost.. I don't see what the issue is.
"if you don't like the shipping fee don't bid."
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
The problem is 2-part:
1. It's sellers "hiding" the cost of purchase by shifting it to S&H. This can be demonstrated by extreme example, which you used to see before eBay reformed it's policy, of items listed for $.99 with $20 shipping. Some people still do that - and some buyers still look at item price first and then only later check the shipping cost. That, to me, is "slimier" than *asking* the seller if they have a cheaper shipping option available after purchase.
2. Shipping costs are fairly standard, especially in our hobby. 1 card - $2-$4. 1 card with insurance - $6-$8. If you ask for $8 for shipping one card, it comes with expectations. As others have said (paraphasing): "I expect it to be tracked, insured, double boxed, etc.". How many times have you bought an item, paid the price you usually do for tracked bubble mailer shipping, and gotten something in a PWE? Does that upset you? If so, why? There's an expectations gap that bothers a lot of people.
Also, I have to add - some kind of nasty words have been tossed around ITT. I'm surprised - it's an oddly sensitive issue for people. Perhaps take a moment and think that reasonable minds can disagree and what I've described - in the situations I've described - does not make me or others who think like me "slimy" or a "DB".
<< <i>
<< <i>So he's asking $100 + $8. You are willing to pay $80, but want a deal so you offer $60 + $8, well under your $80 and his $108. It gets accepted and then you go back and try to grind to $60+$6?
That doesn't make you a capitalist, opportunist maybe. >>
Or, to $60 + $3. I am willing to go higher, but always would prefer to pay as little as possible. Less money spent is more money for other good stuff. You say grind, I say it's basically burning money not to ask.
I should also add that, whenever possible, I ask in advance of purchase. Sometimes you stumble onto auctions late and it's not possible. >>
This reminds me of the guy at a card show that picks out cards and asks for a discount card by card.
I see nothing wrong with that. When I used to set up at shows people did this all the time. This is just negotiating a better price.
The "Douchebag" move is after getting a discount card by card THEN saying how much for everything.
I just gave you a discount on every card. Don't come back and ask for another discount.
I feel like you know what the shipping is before you bid. If you don't like it, or feel it is too high, don't bid or like others have said
factor it into your price. It's not like you are being surprised with a high shipping fee after the fact!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So he's asking $100 + $8. You are willing to pay $80, but want a deal so you offer $60 + $8, well under your $80 and his $108. It gets accepted and then you go back and try to grind to $60+$6?
That doesn't make you a capitalist, opportunist maybe. >>
Or, to $60 + $3. I am willing to go higher, but always would prefer to pay as little as possible. Less money spent is more money for other good stuff. You say grind, I say it's basically burning money not to ask.
I should also add that, whenever possible, I ask in advance of purchase. Sometimes you stumble onto auctions late and it's not possible. >>
This reminds me of the guy at a card show that picks out cards and asks for a discount card by card.
I see nothing wrong with that. When I used to set up at shows people did this all the time. This is just negotiating a better price.
The "Douchebag" move is after getting a discount card by card THEN saying how much for everything.
I just gave you a discount on every card. Don't come back and ask for another discount.
I feel like you know what the shipping is before you bid. If you don't like it, or feel it is too high, don't bid or like others have said
factor it into your price. It's not like you are being surprised with a high shipping fee after the fact! >>
I don't believe that you have read what I have written.
I was just comparing it to another "Bad" buying action. IMHO
You offered $60 + the stated shipping which obviously you were willing to pay. Still a big savings
and well below what you wanted to spend.
Now you want to come back,after the contract is done, and "Ask" for a shipping discount too.
<< <i>
<< <i>I see the word "slimy" being tossed around in regard to buyers who ask for a lower shipping price, but no one seems to question the idea of making a profit of $2.37 off the shipping price. I understand the rationale behind the original charge of $6, but once the final value was determined, wouldn't the least-slimy thing be to send an invoice with a lower, actual amount for shipping + insurance? >>
If it's clearly stated as the shipping cost.. I don't see what the issue is. >>
I thought I made my position clear, but I'll write it again. I don't have any problem at all with the $6 charge. What I have a problem with is receiving the 3 oz First Class bubble mailer with $1.50 in insurance with my card in a penny sleeve inside a layer of bubble wrap. If you're going to charge me $6 for shipping, give me $6 worth. Don't pocket a couple of bucks and then hide behind "you knew what the cost was".
I just paid $13 shipping for a rack box. It came Priority Mail ($12+) and wrapped very carefully. I was beyond happy with the service. If I had paid $13 and it came Parcel Post, I would have been pissed. I hope you see the difference there.
<< <i>I read what you said.
I was just comparing it to another "Bad" buying action. IMHO
You offered $60 + the stated shipping which obviously you were willing to pay. Still a big savings
and well below what you wanted to spend.
Now you want to come back,after the contract is done, and "Ask" for a shipping discount too. >>
I described specific situations in which this was appropriate that do not apply and implode your analogy.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I see the word "slimy" being tossed around in regard to buyers who ask for a lower shipping price, but no one seems to question the idea of making a profit of $2.37 off the shipping price. I understand the rationale behind the original charge of $6, but once the final value was determined, wouldn't the least-slimy thing be to send an invoice with a lower, actual amount for shipping + insurance? >>
If it's clearly stated as the shipping cost.. I don't see what the issue is. >>
I thought I made my position clear, but I'll write it again. I don't have any problem at all with the $6 charge. What I have a problem with is receiving the 3 oz First Class bubble mailer with $1.50 in insurance with my card in a penny sleeve inside a layer of bubble wrap. If you're going to charge me $6 for shipping, give me $6 worth. Don't pocket a couple of bucks and then hide behind "you knew what the cost was".
I just paid $13 shipping for a rack box. It came Priority Mail ($12+) and wrapped very carefully. I was beyond happy with the service. If I had paid $13 and it came Parcel Post, I would have been pissed. I hope you see the difference there. >>
I see the difference here.
You didn't get what you paid for. If the item bought was well packed, arrives safe and sound, since you agreed to buy it at stated shipping price you should not complain.
You are arguing bad shipping packaging practices. The op is just arguing shipping price/overcharge/discount.