I have a 2 part question

PTVETTER

The first part is this:

A collector goes to a yard sale and an older lady who's husband died last year was selling coins at her yard sale. Morgan dollars were $20.00 each.

This collector found a 1893-S morgan and paid the $20.00 and gets it graded by our host VF20.

Is this ethical?

Opinions!

ricko

Yes.... but many of us would have returned to the lady and given her a share of the profit. Cheers, RickO

bronco2078

It's fine . In fact if you try to educate the seller they would normally become suspicious and it usually gets awkward

jayPem

Forum history shows....best not to weigh in on this subject
And definately don't come here bragging when/if you pull a rip like this !

ms70

It depends who you are.

Some people will get a "you suck".

Others will get relentlessly attacked.

BillJones

For many collectors paying the initial $20 for the coin is okay because unless you know how to spot problems and are able to detect counterfeits, you could do yourself a disservice by paying "the fair price." With all of the Chinese counterfeits around, there is chance that an item like this could be one them. And yes, just because some is old and looks honest, it is not prudent to assume that they are innocent. There are "old crooks."

Once the piece was graded you could go back and share the wealth, but I don't think that you would be obligated to not to grant yourself a bargain. Both you and she should come out ahead. You because you took the chance and had the coin graded, and she because she got more than she expected. Still a collector should make arrangements so that problems like this would not happen in the event of his or her death.

Type2

The little old lady na, But the big time dealer that know's it all yes. But i would ask her if she has any more for sale.

DeepCoin

Its all about your own ethics and how you sleep at night. As Bill Jones states, you would need to validate it is real first, but after that it is up to your conscience and moral code.

braddick

Substitute a one thousand dollar bill found in a used book and the book is priced at $20. The owner doesn't know the $1K note is in-between some random pages (only you do).
Is it ethical to purchase the book at $20.?

Type2

<< <i>Substitute a one thousand dollar bill found in a used book and the book is priced at $20. The owner doesn't know the $1K note is in-between some random pages (only you do).
Is it ethical to purchase the book at $20.? >>

This one sucks and the out come can be good or bad. What i dont like is when you do the right thing and they tell you i want to keep it even when you make them a good offer. But thats life.

MGLICKER

<< <i>Yes.... but many of us would have returned to the lady and given her a share of the profit. Cheers, RickO >>




The proper thing to do!

PTVETTER

The second part of the Question is:

The same Lady comes into a B&M coin shop and want s $20.00 per Morgan dollar and the 1893-S is one of the dollars....

What should the dealer offer her?

I now think the answers will be differant

LindeDad

<< <i>Substitute a one thousand dollar bill found in a used book and the book is priced at $20. The owner doesn't know the $1K note is in-between some random pages (only you do).
Is it ethical to purchase the book at $20.? >>



Everybody knows they don't make Thousands.

Coin Finder

I think in both cases it is "ethical"....Right conduct, right action, a person has a garage sale and prices their items. A person sees an item and likes it then pays the asking price and leaves. This is what is expected behavior in a garage sale transaction. We do this everyday at the gas pump or grocery store albeit these latter two examples are more impersonal in nature and a different type transaction.

Now a better question: Was it "moral" in either case? I would say no. Truths and possible truths were held back about the item........ a personal item in a very personal transaction. I would go back and tell her in both cases because it is the right thing to do in this environment in this personal type of transaction. You have nothing to lose and a lot to gain for both parties involved.

By the same token in a impersonal transaction if I got home and discovered I was charged $1.99 for a $10.99 steak, I would probably not go back to the gigantic superstore, but if it happened twice or more, I would go back and inquire..

Just my opinion.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>The second part of the Question is:

The same Lady comes into a B&M coin shop and want s $20.00 per Morgan dollar and the 1893-S is one of the dollars....

What should the dealer offer her?

I now think the answers will be differant >>





$20 because if he offers more he may not get the deal. If he has a spine he could give her more AFTER it's a done deal. There are no doubt a few who would try to beat her down from $20.

Type2

Well now her coming to a shop. She is looking for a expert and asking for help on price and you being a expert shuld let here know what she has or may have in the shop. But at a yard sale she is seting the price so if she walked in and said i want $20 ea she made the price and you know what in todays market if she walked in and said that some will say not looking at them i'll give you $16 ea. or less. For worn Morgans that is.

PTVETTER

At my B&M shop, I would pull out the better date or dates and pay the proper amout.

Now thats how my wife and I do business.

And has been atated already, I loose the purchase, because they still think the coins are worth more than the offer.

Even though they offered them at a lower price to begin with.

Has happened a number of times, OH the joys of being honest.

I see double standards and some may justify thier actions.

I have learned this in life, Ethics are ethics, you have them or you don't!

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Well now her coming to a shop. She is looking for a expert and asking for help on price and you being a expert shuld let here know what she has or may have in the shop. But at a yard sale she is seting the price so if she walked in and said i want $20 ea she made the price and you know what in todays market if she walked in and said that some will say not looking at them i'll give you $16 ea. or less. For worn Morgans that is. >>



Uh, no. She's is asking $20 apiece at the shop too.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>At my B&M shop, I would pull out the better date or dates and pay the proper amout.

Now thats how my wife and I do business.

And has been atated already, I loose the purchase, because they still think the coins are worth more than the offer.

Even though they offered them at a lower price to begin with.

Has happened a number of times, OH the joys of being honest.

I see double standards and some may justify thier actions.

I have learned this in life, Ethics are ethics, you have them or you don't! >>





What's wrong with being honest "after" the deal is done?

AUandAG

It is ethical. The husband was NOT a collector but a hoarder from circulation. If he was a collector he never
would have let a 93s mingle with the rest. That's what 2x2's, envelopes and grading is for. I too would look
at the pile, pay whatever was agreed and then cherrypick once I got home.
Not saying I wouldn't send her a bundle of cash in an unmarked envelope (not my name or address on it) once
I found out what I had. Letting her know you cherried her after the fact could lead to a big lawsuit or hassle.

bob

TwoSides2aCoin

I want to know the rest of the story. After Part I.

MGLICKER

On the other hand, if you show up at the blue haired widows home with a $2000 check, you may have some splainen to do as well.

Might be best to make a healthy charitable contribution with part of the windfall.

Coin Finder

The coin shop scenario is simple, look at the coins, be professional and offer what they are worth to your business. All coin offers would be dependent upon condition and authenticity...

CaptHenway

Some random thoughts on human nature:

1. If you are at a yard sale and you tell the seller that you will give them $500 for something marked $20, 9 times out of 10 they will not sell it.

2. If you buy something at a yard sale for $20 and later come back and try to give them $2,000 more, 9 times out of 10 they will accuse you of cheating them.

3. If you are working in a coin shop and somebody comes in with 19 common dollars and one 1893-S, you have a better chance of buying it by saying "These are a little better. I will pay you $2000 for the lot" without telling them which one is the better one. Otherwise they will keep the better one.

LindeDad

How many are going back and getting their money back when it ( the 1893 in this case) comes back from the graders as counterfeit?

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>The coin shop scenario is simple, look at the coins, be professional and offer what they are worth to your business. All coin offers would be dependent upon condition and authenticity... >>



Cept per the scenario she didn't ask for an offer. She asked $20 per coin.

lunytune2

I have seen many times on Pawn Stars where Rick will tell them there item is worth more .... But he won't offer a whole lot more. He will lose a lot of those ones but gains respect and a steady customer.

MGLICKER

<< <i>I have seen many times on Pawn Stars where Rick will tell them there item is worth more .... But he won't offer a whole lot more. He will lose a lot of those ones but gains respect and a steady customer. >>



Enjoy the show, but it is staged as much as Marilyn Monroe on a New York grate.

Nic

<< <i>Some random thoughts on human nature:

1. If you are at a yard sale and you tell the seller that you will give them $500 for something marked $20, 9 times out of 10 they will not sell it.

2. If you buy something at a yard sale for $20 and later come back and try to give them $2,000 more, 9 times out of 10 they will accuse you of cheating them.

3. If you are working in a coin shop and somebody comes in with 19 common dollars and one 1893-S, you have a better chance of buying it by saying "These are a little better. I will pay you $2000 for the lot" without telling them which one is the better one. Otherwise they will keep the better one. >>




This.

DollarAfterDollar

I'm on the side that a rip is not far removed from stealing. There's nothing that stops you from buying the item, verifying it's actual value and after the fact return with a check. It's up to the individual but most, (hopefully) understand what the right thing to do is. Now I know the Dealers in the room bristle with this notion for good reason, they have bills to pay. I make room in my karma index for that fact however, there are limits to what's right and what's wrong.

What Capt Henway said earlier is exactly right. You don't need to explain exactly why you're making things right, they should accept that you are and don't deserve details.

lunytune2

So did you buy said hypothetical coin in this scenario?

MGLICKER

<< <i>I'm on the side that a rip is not far removed from stealing. There's nothing that stops you from buying the item, verifying it's actual value and after the fact return with a check. It's up to the individual but most, (hopefully) understand what the right thing to do is. Now I know the Dealers in the room bristle with this notion for good reason, they have bills to pay. I make room in my karma index for that fact however, there are limits to what's right and what's wrong.

What Capt Henway said earlier is exactly right. You don't need to explain exactly why you're making things right, they should accept that you are and don't deserve details. >>



This is what Henway said .

2. If you buy something at a yard sale for $20 and later come back and try to give them $2,000 more, 9 times out of 10 they will accuse you of cheating them.

coin22lover

Is it ethical if you buy them for $20 each without saying anything and then your 93-S turns out to be counterfeit?

crispy

<< <i>Some random thoughts on human nature:

1. If you are at a yard sale and you tell the seller that you will give them $500 for something marked $20, 9 times out of 10 they will not sell it.

2. If you buy something at a yard sale for $20 and later come back and try to give them $2,000 more, 9 times out of 10 they will accuse you of cheating them.

3. If you are working in a coin shop and somebody comes in with 19 common dollars and one 1893-S, you have a better chance of buying it by saying "These are a little better. I will pay you $2000 for the lot" without telling them which one is the better one. Otherwise they will keep the better one. >>





I have to agree with CapHenway here. People are suspicious creatures by nature especially if they sense something is a bit off. I can be that way myself. If I hire a contractor, even if they come highly recommended, I'm right there with them at all times. When something unexpected or out of the norm occurs, they need to convince me that it's a legitimate issue to justify a deviation from a price quote. This can actually work in both directions. Obviously if it costs more than that's never a palatable thing but if it were to be too far below the other contractor's bids, I may question the quality of the materials or parts being used or if unsafe shortcuts are being taken just to secure the contract. When I play poker, I don't just play my hand, I play everyone's hands.

keets

here's the bigger question --- How can you rationalize saying that in this example the dealer did something wrong after you came here and applauded a forum member a few days ago for essentially doing the same thing on eBay(the Barber Half-Dollar)?? and please, don't give me any of your "one's a dealer and one's a collector" crap or any other lame excuse, just answer the question.