The Dutch have been secretly repatriating their gold!
tincup
Posts: 5,142 ✭✭✭✭✭
Germany isn't the only one who has been trying to recover their gold from the U.S. Appears that the Dutch have been working on it... and has successfully moved 122 tons. Wonder how many other countries are in the process?
Dutch Gold
Dutch Gold
----- kj
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Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Question: why do countries keep it over here? Safe from foreign invaders of their country?
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<< <i>Would you trust Obama to hold your gold?
Why must you keep injecting political b.s. into the threads? There are other, non-numismatic forums for that.
Nations want their gold readily available for transactions/swaps/leases with other nations in the high profile trading centers (ie NY, London, Paris, etc.). It makes sense to have some of there for instant use when needed. You don't want to have to hire a boat crew to ship it back to NY or London just when something big is going down. The US keeps >40% of its gold reserves in NY for ready access (or so they claim).
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<< <i>Would you trust Obama to hold your gold?
Why must you keep injecting political b.s. into the threads? There are other, non-numismatic forums for that. >>
This topic by it's very nature is political. Their total lack of faith in the leadership of this country is a major factor in their decision to repatriate their gold.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
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<< <i>
<< <i>Would you trust Obama to hold your gold?
Why must you keep injecting political b.s. into the threads? There are other, non-numismatic forums for that. >>
This topic by it's very nature is political. Their total lack of faith in the leadership of this country is a major factor in their decision to repatriate their gold. >>
Only to conspiracy advocates. The rest of us keep an open mind.
<< <i>Yet the gold in the NYFed is still held by the Treasury and is collateralizing FRNs. >>
Shhhh. The fiat bugs don't want this inconvenient truth to get out to J6P. He still thinks there is no gold backing in the world since the US closed their gold window in August 1974. I know...I know. You can't eat gold, it has no real worth, it's common, it never gets destroyed - supplies only increase year after year.....and yet, Central Banks vault it and conceal all transactions tighter than the WW2 Enigma code busters.
These countries need their gold so they can sell it to pay their bills
It would be easier to pay those bills with the gold staying put in New York and London. So, there must be another reason. There's only one logical reason for the Dutch removing some gold from NY City.
The above statement is like saying it's easier to pay my bills with FRN's stuffed under my mattress rather than being in my checking or debit card accounts. The Dutch just made it harder to pay their bills....and a lot harder for
someone to steal their gold by fiat decree or lose it.
Maybe they expect another spike in Libor rates, which is another way of saying that the banks might decide not to trust each other very much any more. Or from a bills-paying perspective, it might be more expedient to have gold on deposit and more available to Russia if things get really cold this winter, and next...
Would you trust Obama to hold your gold?
It's a very valid question. Remember that Europe probably still has Victoria Nuland's voice reverberating in their ears, "**** Europe!" With that kind of treatment, would you trust our administration if you were Europe?
I knew it would happen.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
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<< <i>Would you trust Obama to hold your gold?
Why must you keep injecting political b.s. into the threads? There are other, non-numismatic forums for that. >>
This topic by it's very nature is political. Their total lack of faith in the leadership of this country is a major factor in their decision to repatriate their gold. >>
Only to conspiracy advocates. The rest of us keep an open mind. >>
Fair, but many do believe that collusion is occurring. Impossible to have a metals forum while ignoring the emperor at the top.
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<< <i>
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<< <i>
<< <i>Would you trust Obama to hold your gold?
Why must you keep injecting political b.s. into the threads? There are other, non-numismatic forums for that. >>
This topic by it's very nature is political. Their total lack of faith in the leadership of this country is a major factor in their decision to repatriate their gold. >>
Only to conspiracy advocates. The rest of us keep an open mind. >>
Fair, but many do believe that collusion is occurring. Impossible to have a metals forum while ignoring the emperor at the top. >>
......especially when the emperor has no clothes. One would have to be extremely naïve to think that politics doesn't impact the value of PM's.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>It would be easier to pay those bills with the gold staying put in New York and London. So, there must be another reason. There's only one logical reason for the Dutch removing some gold from NY City. >>
Bingo! Countries buy and sell gold being held at the NY Federal Reserve without it ever being moved. Moving gold is a very expensive operation.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
This is my opinion.
There is no blame game, and from my view it's NOT political at all. Mr Obama just happened to be the guy in place during this time. I'm not one to say it's "So and so's fault". I didn't vote for him, I don't agree with much of what we do in government on both sides, but it really is NOT a blame game. The truth is , the BRIC nations made the first run on the gold , as I see it. Check out Russia and China.
India uses silver. But gold ? For industry, fashion, and it's just a pretty color. Seriously, I think it's smart of these countries to hold some of their own "money". And gold is money.
Just a strange form of it.
<< <i>I just noticed this was a zero hedge story so it must be extremely credible. Lmao. Why do you guys keep calling for this nonsense? >>
Oh really now Cohodk... put down the Kool-aid. So because it was listed in Zero Hedge it is automatically invalidated?? So prove it wrong, instead of LYAO. But just for your continued pleasure, here is a Wall Street Journal link (or perhaps they also do not meet your criteria of a 'respected' source).
"By
Maarten van Tartwijk
Nov. 21, 2014 6:15 a.m. ET
0 COMMENTS
AMSTERDAM—The Dutch central bank said Friday it is repatriating some of its gold reserves from the U.S., making it the latest central bank in Europe to address public concerns about the safety of its gold.
De Nederlandsche Bank, or DNB, said it is moving some of its reserves of 612 metric tons back to the Netherlands in an effort to spread its gold stock in “a more balanced way.” The measure could have “a positive effect on public confidence,” it said.
The goal is to keep 31% of its reserves at the central bank’s vaults in Amsterdam, compared with 11% previously. As a result, the central bank’s gold reserves held at the New York Federal Reserve will fall to 31% from 51%. Dutch gold held at central banks in Canada and the U.K. will remain unchanged at 20% and 18%, respectively.
Several central banks in Europe have made similar moves in recent years in an effort to quell fears about the safety of their gold reserves that were spurred by the debt crisis in the eurozone.
In early 2013, Germany’s central bank said it would repatriate some of its reserves from the U.S. and France, bowing to pressure from Berlin and a campaign by the populist press.
Switzerland, meanwhile, is bracing for a vote on Nov. 30 that would require the Swiss National Bank to hold a fifth of its assets in gold and force it to repatriate its gold reserves held in the U.K. and Canada.
DNB’s gold reserves have suffered a drop in value as a result of a falling gold price. By the end of 2013, they had a market value of €17 billion, compared with €25 billion in the previous year, according to its latest annual report."
WSJ-Dutch Gold
And the beauty of a conspiracy is that it forces the non believer to proveva negative--which is impossible. "Prove there was a second man on the grassy knoll". Since there is no proof he was there, how can I prove he wasn't?
Let's say Germany wants its gold back. So what? To me it could mean, and 2 sides to acoin, gets it, is that these countries reasuze the Euro has problems. They can only print so much without causing so much problem. They may really need the gold--for collateral or for liquidation. You guys Luke conspiracy so maybe Germany made a secret pact with Russia that requires Germany to hand over their gold to Russia in exchange for 20 years of natural gas. Surely Germany couldn't let the US know about such a relationship. Now prove I'm wrong.
I see nothing that indicates lack of confidence in the USA. Why was the US holding this guld in the first place? Germany isn't " big boy" enough to hold their own?
If you guys were stacking AAPL instead of gold you would have a much different view of the economy, yourselves and the world.
I've been buying gold and silver at these prices, not because I believe in these conspiracy a manipulation theories. I don't need my opinion validated by some newsletter writer who is so coward he won't even use his real name. You guys have been looking for excuses as to why you've been so wrong about PMs these last several years. Grow a sack, accept responsibility, think objectively, and separate yourselves from those who cannot.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Would you trust Obama to hold your gold?
I read the whole thread, back and forth about this being a political thread. I'm not really into politics, never have been until this President. I think because of his race it was bigger news than usually when he first won so a lot of Soldiers followed the campaign (We have a lot of African American Soldiers). And yes, there is still racism in the Army... but I digress, this is not the point I am trying to make.
I did not like the idea of a Democrat taking power, but I dealt with it. You see, I did not vote with his first election so I had no say in the results. This last election I voted (For the first time in my life). I voted against him. I dealt with his plan to ruin what I have grown to love and fought for over 20 years to defend. That is until he tried to take away our second amendment... For the love of all things holy... He tried to take away our right to defend ourselves... From this point on any good (If there was any good) that he did was negated. I'm sorry, I know this opinion will rub a lot of people the wrong way and I am not trying to do that, I'm only stating my beliefs.
To answer your question, no, I would not trust Obama to hold my gold, I do not trust him to lead my country either.
Sad times we live in.
<< <i>.....You guys have been looking for excuses as to why you've been so wrong about PMs these last several years. Grow a sack, accept responsibility, think objectively, and separate yourselves from those who cannot. >>
What excuses? The weakness in PM's the past 3-1/2 yrs is essentially due the the USD/JPY cross. Simple as that. It powered the rally from 2000-2011 and helped to power the downturn. The USDollar and Euro are obviously part of the equation but certainly not as trend worthy as the USD/JPY, AUD/USD, and USD/CAD. There are no stories or excuses, just the performance of these 5 currencies with the USD/JPY being the apha. Until it changes, things will remain much the same.
The Dutch wanting a higher % of their gold in their hands rather than the US govt's simply says they prefer having it home. While that says nothing overtly positive for PMs, it also suggests nothing positive whatsoever about storing your gold in the US. Is there anyone coming forward the past 5 years looking to store a higher % of their gold in NY City FED vaults? Thanks Tincup for providing a non-zero hedge link. I tried to take the official Dutch report and translate it.....didn't work.
Jesse's Cafe view
Why is there a thread started on this board every week complaining about manipulation or conspiracy?
And yes, thanks Tincup, for presenting an unbiased and factual report. My problem is the zero hedge nonsense that turns everything into some conspiracy theory. My question concerns why people believe the crap zero hedge writes?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Why is there a thread started on this board every week complaining about manipulation or conspiracy?
And yes, thanks Tincup, for presenting an unbiased and factual report. My problem is the zero hedge nonsense that turns everything into some conspiracy theory. My question concerns why people believe the crap zero hedge writes? >>
Illegal market manipulation by definition is a conspiracy and yes it occurs on a daily basis. While just a tip of the iceberg, the record fines being paid by the banks are your introductory evidence. ZH is the anit-MNBC and believe it or not it is well respected and well read by many professionals in the financial industry. ZH provides an excellent counterpoint to the many main stream prostituted news outlets. I don't always agree with ZH but I always welcome their differing take on financial news and world events. Good opinions are formed utilizing both the good and the bad opinions of others. You should welcome differing points of view, not only there but here as well.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Is actively buying up gold shoring up a teetering economy and trying to prevent a colour revolution.
Bingo. Especially when some documentation is included from time to time. It's as bad to dismiss ZH simply because it's ZH as it is to believe everything ZH prints.
I knew it would happen.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Why dismiss zerohedge ? They don't actually write anything, they are just an aggregator . Every story on there is from somewhere else.
<< <i>Why dismiss zerohedge ? They don't actually write anything, they are just an aggregator . Every story on there is from somewhere else. >>
Much of it is their own take on something from somewhere else.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i> I don't always agree with ZH but I always welcome their differing take on financial news and world events. Good opinions are formed utilizing both the good and the bad opinions of others. You should welcome differing points of view
Bingo. Especially when some documentation is included from time to time. It's as bad to dismiss ZH simply because it's ZH as it is to believe everything ZH prints. >>
I welcome a differing point of view as long as it is not rooted in hyperbole. Write something without using terms like banksters, covert, fleecing, sheeple, ect, ect, ect and your opinion will be much more welcomed. Use of these terms, to me, demonstrates a deficiency of understanding. Thats just me, you are free to disagree.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Would you trust Obama to hold your gold?
I can not think of any politician that I would lend 20 bucks.
Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.
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<< <i> I don't always agree with ZH but I always welcome their differing take on financial news and world events. Good opinions are formed utilizing both the good and the bad opinions of others. You should welcome differing points of view
Bingo. Especially when some documentation is included from time to time. It's as bad to dismiss ZH simply because it's ZH as it is to believe everything ZH prints. >>
I welcome a differing point of view as long as it is not rooted in hyperbole. Write something without using terms like banksters, covert, fleecing, sheeple, ect, ect, ect and your opinion will be much more welcomed. Use of these terms, to me, demonstrates a deficiency of understanding. Thats just me, you are free to disagree.
I understand the mainstream media brainwashing is effective on many who buys in to it. The truth is, the markets are being manipulated. Only a blind man or a person totally brainwashed and fully trusting of the corrupt system can't see it.
Also, the term 'conspiracy theory' was created/coined by the PTB to discredit any truth getting out to wake people up. Look it up. Or read the link below.
weaponized term conspiracy theory
<< <i>Roadrunner, why is it then when I explained the relationship of gold and the yen and the dollar years ago I was completely dismissed?
>>
I have no idea. When a trend is in progress it's hard to refute it until something turns. The USD/Yen decline drove the gold bull market from 2001-2011. Thing is, numerous people said it was all over at various points along the way (ie $400, $600, $800, $1,000, $1200, $1375, $1550, $1650, $1750, $1800, $1850, $1900). Even when the USD/Yen pair started turning the other way in 2011, gold continue higher in parabolic mode. I guess it's also true that all "good" trends come to an end. Are we sure that the current relationships between dollar, yen and gold we've seen since 2011 will continue until 2015-2011? What if they don't? Gold being entirely dependent on a single currency pair is absurd....but there it is. If that doesn't suggest manipulation of some sort I don't know what does. It's clear that the USD has been a poor determinate of the gold price for long periods of time. I suspect that probably occurred in the 1970's as well. These currency trends will hold until they don't. Then it will be something else for the boyz to run with.
Sheeple? Banksters? In my mind a modern financial system without sheeple is like peanut butter without jelly (especially a financial system leveraged 50X with derivatives). Haven't banks dined on a steady diet of sheeple since the first ones were created? I'll stop calling them banksters when they stop getting fined for manipulating interest rates, libor, copper, aluminum, oil, grains, currencies, PM's, etc. As long as their fines continue to be 1% or less of what they won, and no jail time, I don't see anything changing.
I understand the mainstream media brainwashing is effective on many who buy in to it. The truth is, the markets are being manipulated. Only a blind man or a person totally brainwashed and fully trusting of the corrupt system can't see it.
Or...a person that depends on that very system for their livelihood and sustenance. If my pay check was dependent on that system, I'd be waving the "You-Go-Banks" banner too.
My very first job interviews back in 1976 entailed one of the countries largest NY banks and an insurance company. Both of them suggested that my emotional make up and personality was not conducive to how they operate. In other words, I told the truth and wouldn't be able to sell the product to customers....lol. That's when I decided that the US Navy might better utilize those views.
<< <i>
<< <i>Roadrunner, why is it then when I explained the relationship of gold and the yen and the dollar years ago I was completely dismissed?
>>
I have no idea. When a trend is in progress it's hard to refute it until something turns. The USD/Yen decline drove the gold bull market from 2001-2011. Thing is, numerous people said it was all over at various points along the way (ie $400, $600, $800, $1,000, $1200, $1375, $1550, $1650, $1750, $1800, $1850, $1900). Even when the USD/Yen pair started turning the other way in 2011, gold continue higher in parabolic mode. I guess it's also true that all "good" trends come to an end. Are we sure that the current relationships between dollar, yen and gold we've seen since 2011 will continue until 2015-2011? What if they don't? Gold being entirely dependent on a single currency pair is absurd....but there it is. If that doesn't suggest manipulation of some sort I don't know what does. It's clear that the USD has been a poor determinate of the gold price for long periods of time. I suspect that probably occurred in the 1970's as well. These currency trends will hold until they don't. Then it will be something else for the boyz to run with.
Sheeple? Banksters? In my mind a modern financial system without sheeple is like peanut butter without jelly (especially a financial system leveraged 50X with derivatives). Haven't banks dined on a steady diet of sheeple since the first ones were created? I'll stop calling them banksters when they stop getting fined for manipulating interest rates, libor, copper, aluminum, oil, grains, currencies, PM's, etc. As long as their fines continue to be 1% or less of what they won, and no jail time, I don't see anything changing.
I understand the mainstream media brainwashing is effective on many who buy in to it. The truth is, the markets are being manipulated. Only a blind man or a person totally brainwashed and fully trusting of the corrupt system can't see it.
Or...a person that depends on that very system for their livelihood and sustenance. If my pay check was dependent on that system, I'd be waving the "You-Go-Banks" banner too.
My very first job interviews back in 1976 entailed one the countries largest NY banks and insurance company. Both of them suggested that my emotional make up and personality was not conducive to how they operate. In other words, I told the truth and wouldn't be able to sell the product to customers....lol. That's when I decided that the US Navy might better utilize those views. >>
Yes, you are right(and thank you for your service). What these fools worshipping the system fails to realize is that when they are done with them, themselves and their families are going to be used like toilet paper by the PTB as well. By the time they realize this, it will be too late.
This was noted on several different sources today. This from the French right wing leader.
<< <i>Now the French are starting to make motions to audit/repatriate their gold
This was noted on several different sources today. This from the French right wing leader. >>
Oh I think the french right wing leader was Maurice Richard 50 goals in 50 games
But seriously the gold troubles always start with the french , DeGaulle of those guys
I'll be here all week folks , don't forget to tip your server
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Way to go France. When every central bank has their gold in their possession, what will we talk about? >>
Probably the fact that all they really have in hand are a bunch of paper IOU's based on book entries. No CB has any gold to give unless it is forcibly taken during war. Some think that the Dutch got their gold from GLD.
We can also talk about the fact that CB's keep a tighter lid on gold leases/trades/swaps than the govt does with nuclear weapons, UFO's-aliens, and the President's book of secrets. This won't change.
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<< <i>Way to go France. When every central bank has their gold in their possession, what will we talk about? >>
Probably the fact that all they really have in hand are a bunch of paper IOU's based on book entries. No CB has any gold to give unless it is forcibly taken during war. Some think that the Dutch got their gold from GLD.
We can also talk about the fact that CB's keep a tighter lid on gold leases/trades/swaps than the govt does with nuclear weapons, UFO's-aliens, and the President's book of secrets. This won't change. >>
The refusal to produce the gold on demand just shows how much of a smoke and mirrors game this system truly is.
Just like the Ft. Knox bull the American people are fed; 'Oh, it's there. We won't show you. But, trust us, it's there.' ~And we all know they have never lied to us about anything.~