interesting ebay auction that just closed...8 reales cut out, post yours if you have one !

jayPem · November 2, 2014 6:39AM

link
I jumped into the bidding on this (way, way below the hammer !) even though I couldn't find it in my book...anyone know what we have here ?
I'm guessing that its from a carribean country and the cut out has been filled in....I wonder if the plug could be succesfully removed ?

Were these filled in possibly, to be re-used as coinage somewhere else ?
Or would this be the work (the fill in) of some uneducated coin collector/dealer ?

LochNESS · November 2, 2014 10:52AM

Wow that is a really big plug (and hole filled).

<< <i>I'm guessing that its from a carribean country and the cut out has been filled in. >>

Unsure about the origins or reasons, but that is definitely a plug.

<< <i>Were these filled in possibly, to be re-used as coinage somewhere else ? >>

Possibly, but most Central and South American countries used counterstamps. I know this one has the palm tree stamp but that's not the kind of stamp they used. Typically the official stamps were round with some sort of government seal or emblem. Or the moneyer's initials / monogram. Not a palm tree.

<< <i>Or would this be the work (the fill in) of some uneducated coin collector/dealer ? >>

Or a jeweler ... hmm we'll never know.

jayPem · November 2, 2014 12:04PM

here's something similar...link
the cut outs were also stamped with a denomination and used as minor coinage....this was done all over the carribean it seems and these cut out pieces fetch a few bucks !

I haven't found out where the ebay coin hails from yet, but I don't doubt that the plug is a filled cut out...

WorldCoinsDmitry · November 2, 2014 12:30PM

This type of palm tree counterstamp has been attributed at one time or another to various places, including Barbados (was thought to be a pineapple instead of a palm). The current consensus attributes it to Haiti.

jayPem · November 3, 2014 12:38AM

text,link,link,link
Here are a few HA.com archive pieces...I can't find that they've ever sold the actual outer ring ( very rare, there is a decent picture in Elizondo's 8 reale book)

Thislink (same as above post) has a good write up explaining what these are all about....

Super fascinating !
I'm sure there are collectors here who have examples....if only they would jump in and share some

It's amazing what these sell for...something that many collectors would dismiss as plain and simple damaged goods... You could buy a collection of mint state 8 R's for the price of one legit ring dollar !

TwoKopeiki · November 3, 2014 4:57AM

From the photos the coin appears cast and plated. Whatever it is, I would doubt it's authenticity.

Boosibri · November 3, 2014 6:17AM

<< <i>From the photos the coin appears cast and plated. Whatever it is, I would doubt it's authenticity. >>

This was my first thought as well

TwoKopeiki · November 3, 2014 9:23AM

There seems to be a documented cast counterfeit example of this Haitian counterstamp in the Lissade Collection (Ex: Carlos Jara). Check out p.152 onward in the "Money of the Caribbean". Lots of interesting info on this counterstamp. Carlos posted here a few times, but the best way to reach him would be via his email address that you can find on Mexican Coin Company's website under Bio for Carlos.

Here's the link to the book, if you don't have a copy:

Click me

coinkat · November 3, 2014 9:40AM

Anyone thinking Sea salvage?

That was my first thought

jayPem · November 3, 2014 11:49AM

Sea salvage was my first thought too...although conterfiet or bad pics also crossed my mind.
Seems like a few folks thought there was something there though, the bidding took off with 10 or 15 minutes left. From $40 or so to $400+...Santiago mint ?
I'm thinking it must be a filled cut out though...that would explain the price , even for a severly messed up one.

jayPem · November 3, 2014 12:01PM

Two K...thanks for the link !
It's on the list, just as you said, the only known Santiago. Holed counterstamped and later plugged, cast counterfiet...19.41 grams

All the info is there actually, including some interesting speculation as to why they were filled back in.

The counterfiet piece appears to be rather collectable, so I wonder if this another from the original casting, or a fake of the fake ?
Is it a contemporary counterfiet or something newer ?

Very interesting ! Looks like somebody indeed may have scored on this one !Too bad I didn't try a little harder to win it

LochNESS · November 3, 2014 5:51PM

From your enthusiasm I'm wondering if you actually did win it? If you did congrats. Personally, I would pass even if it proves to be an authentic contemporary counterfeit. The color/toning isn't my style. I actually was thinking fake too, but didn't want to say anything because I'm far from an expert in these.

I stand corrected on the palm tree stamp. I wasn't aware those had been used in the Caribbean. Most were small round stamps.

jayPem · November 4, 2014 12:22AM

No I didn't win it, and some how I doubt I would have been able to....my guess is that whoever won it probably knew exactly what it was and wasn't going to let it get away !

As much as I love this area of numimatics, collecting Carribean ring dollars and cut out pieces is a bit out of my league...going in strong to win a cast counterfiet piece,
as vauable as it probably is to a certain group of collectors, doesn't really fit in with what I do collect.

In other words, it wouldn't make much sense to own this piece but not really be able to afford to add anything more to the collection...

What's cool is that something like this pops up on ebay, by a non coin seller, with no real info listed in the auction, and still a bunch of bidders find it and go to town .

What is also very cool is that TwoKopieki was able to link up all the necissary info to identify a rather obscure coin.

Thanks again 2K for helping make this forum a place to learn !

TwoKopeiki · January 26, 2016 4:32AM

Hey - Déjà vu.

eBay

Crazy8s · January 27, 2016 2:27PM

My condolences to the person that paid north of $400 for this fake. These are sold in tourist shops all over the Caribbean, usually marked "copy". I have even seen them in sets of "pirate coins of the Caribbean islands" that contain cut 8s and other counterstamped 8s...all copies of coins. You can buy the entire set for under $10