Satin Luster on Classic Coinage

Catbert

Do you have a classic coin that you like that has a satiny appearance? Do you like it?

PCGS defines satin luster as:

Fine, silky luster seen on many business strike coins, especially copper and nickel issues. Almost no “cartwheel” effect is seen on coins with this type of luster.

While I certainly enjoy a coin with powerful luster, I also appreciate a subtle appearance as well.

I know that this can be difficult to capture in pictures, but here is a MS66 Morgan that I have that the reverse has a pleasing satiny look (pics by messydesk):



Post a pic of a classic coin that you appreciate with this appearance.

Jinx86

I too like nice smooth satin Morgans, here is the Obv of a 1890-S MS65. Cannot remember if I still have it or not.

ricko

I much prefer the satin finish to tarnish.....Cheers, RickO

Catbert

<< <i>I much prefer the satin finish to tarnish.....Cheers, RickO >>



Good to know, thanks....

LochNESS

<< <i>Do you have a classic coin that you like that has a satiny appearance? Do you like it? >>

I love it on my foreign matte strikes. Especially when they have large open fields of satiny luster. But on domestic, I prefer cartwheel. I think it's because the satin can look dipped in the wrong lighting. In my opinion. And cartwheel seems expected. So I tend to seek it out.

BillJones

Here are a couple of gold dollars with the satin finish. The 1849 Close wreath has a greenish - gold appearance with very smooth surfaces. Although the guide books indicate that the close wreath coins from the Philadelphia Mint are of equal rarity with the open wreath coins, I think that the Close wreath is scarcer.



This 1851-O gold dollar has mostly a satin finish. It is graded MS-63. Professional people had a difference of opinion on this one. The dealer from whom I bought it tried to get it into an MS-64 holder. CAC rejected it as an MS-63.



There seems to be a fair number of collectors who don't like the satin finish, even when the coins have very smooth, mark free surfaces. These coins are made from dies that have not been re-polished for a while. There is really nothing wrong with the coins, but to many collectors bright luster can trump a lot of sins like marks and even spots.

rmpsrpms

Satin finish is usually associated with Early Die States. Luster is primarily due to DIE wear, not metal flowing on a particular coin strike. Metal does indeed flow on each coin, and the cumulative effect of metal flowing on each strike causes dies to wear in that same direction. The worn dies then impart this cumulative wear onto the subsequent coins, so as the dies strike more and more coins the subsequent coins have more luster.

Satin finish coins are thus sort of like "first strike" coins in that they were struck early in a die's life.

It's sort of ironic that many high grade coins have "dripping" luster. This sort of luster occurs after the dies have struck many, many coins and are approaching the end of their useful life. Coins with dripping luster often have mushy features and other characteristics of late or very late die states. I personally place a high premium on early die state coins with satiny luster, and luckily these are often graded lower than their late die state coins with dripping luster.

Catbert

Thanks for that insight, rmpsrpms and BillJones.

Here's the coin that inspired this thread CRO Archive Seated Half. I just love the look and wish this coin was mine!

koynekwest

<< <i>Satin finish is usually associated with Early Die States. Luster is primarily due to DIE wear, not metal flowing on a particular coin strike. Metal does indeed flow on each coin, and the cumulative effect of metal flowing on each strike causes dies to wear in that same direction. The worn dies then impart this cumulative wear onto the subsequent coins, so as the dies strike more and more coins the subsequent coins have more luster.

Satin finish coins are thus sort of like "first strike" coins in that they were struck early in a die's life.

It's sort of ironic that many high grade coins have "dripping" luster. This sort of luster occurs after the dies have struck many, many coins and are approaching the end of their useful life. Coins with dripping luster often have mushy features and other characteristics of late or very late die states. I personally place a high premium on early die state coins with satiny luster, and luckily these are often graded lower than their late die state coins with dripping luster. >>



Absolutely. Die state is almost always overlooked as a positive attribute on coins. Just compare an early die state coin to a late or even middle die state coin side by side. The difference can and often is dramatic! I personally always seek out early die state coins. I know it will never happen but I think die state should be notated on the slab.

Sonorandesertrat

1932 eagle

crump41

This might fit the bill:
[URL=http://s16.photobucket.com/user/jmicky41/media/Mobile Uploads/351d2_zpsenbqdeyh.jpg.html][/URL]

lasvegasteddy

fresh frost
satin finish
matte finish
brilliant finish
cameo brilliant finish
deep cameo brilliant finish
special die processed finish

i'd never be able to side over another....myself

it'd be an interesting lil subset to have a single year type of surface variety examples

1964...one can assemble such a set to include the sms
surely one of the most varied surface finishes available in one year

yes...no...?

Stuart

I think that this satiny luster coin may be the most well struck 1921 Peace Dollar in my collection. Perhaps it was one of those struck using the 150 ton pressure during the intial phase of minting...

1921 Peace Dollar PCGS MS-63 (CAC) - Strong Strike, Full Mint Luster & Attractive Toning (High-Res Images) - From Mark Feld




Photos courtesy of Jeremy Katz (aka AirplaneNut) and Coin courtesy of Mark Feld (aka CoinGuy1)

lasvegasteddy

i'd think some satin types come from press adjusting before full speed production

but once those presses are set...they'd crank um out and the heated dies produce the frostiness of the luster

surely those points i address come into play

lasvegasteddy

hey stuart
not to bash or offend you here...

if you look at the very center of hair detail on a 21 peace dollar

there's like single strands of hair there...way up on top...this is my paltry ms62 which has a satiny finish subdued
but look real close...you can see single strands of hair on the very top of the center...i'm still on the fence to send mine in for restoration

mine... yours....

Unknown

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Stuart

LasVegasTeddy, In reply to your 1921 Peace Dollar post earlier in this thread... Please refer to my 1921 (VAM-1O) Peace Dollar - PCGS Forum Thread for more detailed information.

Below is a comparison of another of my best struck 1921 Peace Dollars (VAM-1O) left coin below, with Roger Burdette's (RWB) monster struck plate coin as published in his "A Guide Book of Peace Dollars" (right coin below).

You'll find that some of these are more fully struck in different portions of the coin, which I feel is related to die alignment as well as different striking pressures. Some have stronger hair detail and others exhibit better peripheral motto, date and Liberty detail definition.

1921 Peace (VAM-1O) - Roger Burdette's (RWB) Strike Comparison Photos with My Coin


Roger Burdette has granted permission to post his plate coin photos for strike comparison purposes

LochNESS

This is what I think of when I think "satiny luster" but it still has some cartwheel so maybe it's not satin...

lasvegasteddy

i stand corrected there stuart as i was comparing an apple to an orange "per se"....
yours is a sweet example on that die version of the 21'

ahopewell55

This coin has a satiny luster. It's now in a P53 CAC holder.

brg5658

Satiny surfaces are among the most beautiful IMO. This isn't a "classic coin" -- but it is what I envision when I think of satiny luster.

LochNESS

I will say this, there are some coins out there ... the more you zoom into the photo the more interesting they become. I believe your example is one of those, BRG.

I recently looked at my collection zoomed to the max. The advantage over using my loupe is that I can take my time glancing all over the image, without squinting or adjusting focus. I was surprised by the low quality on some coins, and the high degree of detail on others. Really makes you appreciate certain mints and even certain decades. I recommend everyone do this periodically.