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1 oz gold American eagle grading question....

SteelernationSteelernation Posts: 362 ✭
in Precious Metals
If your buying a one once gold American eagle coin, or really any coin, what's the difference between buying a "brilliant uncirculated" 2014 and a graded MS -70 or MS - 69 PCGS of the same? On apmex the graded is 20 or 30 dollars more but what are you getting for that, is it worth the premium? One easier to sell in the future? One appreciates more than the other?

I'm just looking to buy gold or silver and interested in the liquidity. Any good reading sights?

Thanks again.

Comments

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,824 ✭✭✭✭✭
    more liquidity in graded coins. They have been certified as authentic. You normally get your grading premium back when you sell, all other things being equal. Most all AGEs are brilliant uncirculated unless they were handled poorly. MS 70 is the big difference in price and that is because of the collector base that pays extra for them. Grading fees can run more than the $20-$30 premium. Best buys are the MS 69s.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    Pay a bit more up front for the piece of mind in knowing that when it comes time to sell you'll get more closer to what it's worth than with the uncertified "item"...or in other words, buy the insurance.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,225 ✭✭✭✭✭


    don't waste your money on 70's bullion is bullion . Get a good price and spare yourself the mental gymnastics shoulda oughta might get your grading premium backimage
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,121 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Suggest you review eBay's completed auction prices and then make up your own mind. You'll be surprised, as to the premiums graded PCGS coins will bring over non graded ones.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,225 ✭✭✭✭✭


    It's a safe bet that the person who advises one to buy ms-70 coins will recoup the premium they paid if you then buy one from them .

    Beyond that it gets a bit murky. image


    If you decide to sell to a dealer for instance you will not regain your premium . Dealers will sell you 70's at a premium and run down any 70's you bring them .

    If you sell them one at a time on ebay you may regain your premium but after paying your ebay fees who knows.



    If spot doesn't go up then the best you will do is break even minus time spent and costs of selling which means you will lose money.

    If spot goes down you will lose more money or break even

    If spot goes up you will break even or make money


    All the same could be said for raw coins without the drama .

    The slabbed coins aren't easier to sell unless you mean to sell them at the price of a raw coin. Then they are but that sort of defeats the purpose image

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    With slabbed coins, you are paying for a professional opinion of the quality (perfection level) of the coin. What is your objective when buying gold? Collecting, investing, stacking?? Much depends on this.... Cheers, RickO
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>more liquidity in graded coins. They have been certified as authentic. You normally get your grading premium back when you sell, all other things being equal. Most all AGEs are brilliant uncirculated unless they were handled poorly. MS 70 is the big difference in price and that is because of the collector base that pays extra for them. Grading fees can run more than the $20-$30 premium. Best buys are the MS 69s. >>



    It all depends on who you sell to. You will have a hard time recouping any premiums if you sell to a dealer so your best bet is to sell to another stacker/collector like yourself. Right now with spot at $1294, APMEX is selling AGEs @ $1350 [+$56] and buying @ $1326 [+$30] so if you buy one at $1350 and 3 months later you decide to sell it and spot is at about the same level, you will have a hard time getting your $$$ back [esp. if shipping is involved] unless you get lucky and find a local collector/stacker.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If your buying a one once gold American eagle coin, or really any coin, what's the difference between buying a "brilliant uncirculated" 2014 and a graded MS -70 or MS - 69 PCGS of the same? On apmex the graded is 20 or 30 dollars more but what are you getting for that, is it worth the premium? One easier to sell in the future? One appreciates more than the other?

    I'm just looking to buy gold or silver and interested in the liquidity. Any good reading sights?

    Thanks again. >>



    The graded coins give you comfort that it's not a counterfeit as it was likely submitted in mint packaging under the bulk program. In that case it probably cost APMEX $8-$10 per coin in bulk. Whether a dealer would pay you the extra $8 is another question. I expect that counterfeiting common U.S. gold coins could be more of a problem in the future.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You come on here with original thoughts and perspectives, baseball, which I love.

    That's an interesting idea, that the Mint issue coins in sealed slabs with features to insure authenticity. I rarely go to the expense of getting Mint issues certified after the purchase, but am aware of the occasional motivation to counterfeit some of these (like the UHR).

    Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...



  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭
    If someone can't tell they have an oz of gold without some company that will and charge them for it is laughable at best, and prolly best if they never buy/invest in any physical gold...

    keceph `anah
  • dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If someone can't tell they have an oz of gold without some company that will and charge them for it is laughable at best, and prolly best if they never buy/invest in any physical gold... >>



    I don't mind being laughable. It is the best, though.

    I'm good at what I'm good at professionally, but I routinely buy expertise in the myriad areas where I'm not. I hunt carefully for an auto mechanic, a family doctor, a dentist, an accountant, a roofer, etc. etc. etc., and am aware that I may miscalculate from time to timer and suffer financial loss. Such is life in this complex civilization of ours.

    If I limited my activity to that which I had fail-proof competence, I'd be sitting in terrorized place most of the time. Hell, I've screwed up significantly in numismatics more than I'd like to admit, where I'm supposed to be sophisticated.

    Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...



  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭
    Lol, complex???, lol, it's about as hard as learning how to spell ones own name, in fact learning to spell ones own name is harder... Lol

    But I must give you thanks, u gave me a great idea to start charging for seminars on how to identify pm's...
    keceph `anah
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,294 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would not advise unless that 1 oz is the collectible version from the mint. Check out the West Point graded gold. It comes with a "W".

    Here are 2 links from eBay to help you in your research.


    PCGS MS 70 First Strike 2012 Gold American Eagle vs NGC MS 70 2012 W Gold American Eagle. (MS 69 will see similar results)


    Example 1:

    Example 2

    My personal advice would be to buy those "W" minted coins directly from the mint and get them submitted yourself , if you're trying to capitalize. If you want VALUE, invest your time and money into creating value. The old saying has never been more true. " If you want to make money you have to spend money".
    Don't follow a trend, follow logic but keep in mind, it's an expensive gamble when there are "stocks" out there which could return at a much faster rate.

    This place is not an investment forum. It's a discussion forum so please be advised that it's YOUR MONEY. Spend it or save it or invest it wisely. That's all I will say about 1 ounce of gold.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,824 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I would not advise unless that 1 oz is the collectible version from the mint. Check out the West Point graded gold. It comes with a "W".

    Here are 2 links from eBay to help you in your research.


    PCGS MS 70 First Strike 2012 Gold American Eagle vs NGC MS 70 2012 W Gold American Eagle. (MS 69 will see similar results)


    Example 1:

    Example 2

    My personal advice would be to buy those "W" minted coins directly from the mint and get them submitted yourself , if you're trying to capitalize. If you want VALUE, invest your time and money into creating value. The old saying has never been more true. " If you want to make money you have to spend money".
    Don't follow a trend, follow logic but keep in mind, it's an expensive gamble when there are "stocks" out there which could return at a much faster rate.

    This place is not an investment forum. It's a discussion forum so please be advised that it's YOUR MONEY. Spend it or save it or invest it wisely. That's all I will say about 1 ounce of gold. >>


    While I agree that the collector W unc. burnished AGE's, at the right price, are a better investment, it is also important to point out that your "example 2" happens to be the lowest mintage American Gold Eagle out of over 250 Gold Eagle dates, flavors and sizes. Do not expect such outstanding returns on the other W uncircs. Note that the second lowest mintage AGE ever, the 2013 W $50 unc. burnished, has been recently selling on ebay for $1700-$1800. After paying the mint premium for these coins (currently $282 over spot) and the grading fees, returns will be much lower than your example unless you end up with a new lower mintage coin. As shown by the 2011 W and 2012 W prices, a new lower mintage version will greatly reduce value of the last low mintage version. Moral of the story is do not assume the lowest mintage will remain the lowest mintage.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭
    Moral of story is don't ever play W mint musical chairs, especially when one is a late entrant...
    keceph `anah
  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The old saying has never been more true. " If you want to make money you have to spend money". >>


    Lol, that saying has never been true, except of course to be used by con men and as an excuse for those that don't make money...
    keceph `anah
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,294 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The old saying has never been more true. " If you want to make money you have to spend money". >>


    Lol, that saying has never been true, except of course to be used by con men and as an excuse for those that don't make money… >>



    lol, ya think ?
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You might want to look at finding a 1 oz PCGS MS-69 American Gold Eagle for about the same price as an ungraded one. Unless it is a "W" mintmark, I don't think that a 1 oz AGE graded MS-70 by PCGS is worth the expense of grading unless it's a specific older date, such as 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992 or 1993. But generally speaking, no.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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