I have bee a collector for 55+ years and was a dealer for over 10 years. I would consider buying an expensive coin raw IF I could see it in person, but I would never do it over the Internet if I did not know the dealer and did not have full return privileges.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Just contact him Tell him he probably didn't know but his coin was counterfeit You want your coins back Or You will turn over your videotape and the info from Craig's list to the secret service counterfeit division and let them handle it
<< <i>You guys can call Bull crap or whatever you want if you look at my history all I talk about is new mint offerings. I was dabbling in stuff I should not have been dabbling in! Gave myself a five minute lesson on these coins and went to work never thought the transaction would happen the way it did. The ones that say stay out of the business if you can fall for such obvious fakes, that is exactly what I am going to do from now on. But, in no way is this story bogus! This is just one of the texts I received from him explaining why he couldn't call me!
My phone screen is cracked I dropped it the other day so I'm working on getting a new one right now. Its easier for me to use email on my WiFi on my table at the moment until I get my new phone through my insurance. But yes the 1877 was in a plastic case but the last guy that was interested insisted that he take out out of the case then he tried tried to low ball me to the bone so I denied his offer. And now its in a regular coin protecter. But yeah let me know if ur serious and I'll try to swing by and meet up with you latter if you like maybe at a Starbucks, bring your coins I'll bring mine and we'll see if we can come to some sort of agreement. Thanks
Now, looking back it did have all the red flags. He was rushing me told me to look at them better when I got home and if anything wasn't right I could get the coins back. Then he rushed out.
I am going to let this go (After all is said and done not to happy the guy knows where I work) but, I understand some are just dicks on here. It will make people like myself run from this place! I didn't need to be put down, I was asking after shelling out more then $800 in coins myself. Most people can't believe that someone could be so gullible, well you found the mark! I don't understand the shear moxie on some but, I have been reading these pages for a long time so, it doesn't surprise me! But, I truly thank the people that were not trying to be harsh. (It is bad enough I made such a mistake!) >>
Hello again,
I can believe your story for good or bad. "Gave myself a five minute lesson on these coins and went to work never thought the transaction would happen the way it did." Now, I gotta ask - how did you remove your first splinter?
Just kidding, really. Never good to get screwed, especially when your doing the screwing. I am reminded of a line from a Radiohead song I wish I had seen more times live than I did - "Hey man, slow down..." and that is the extent of my advice. Oddly enough, the song is called "The Tourist"...
Well, I am now reminded of another Radiohead lyric - "You do it to yourself, you do, and that's why it really hurts. You do it to yourself, just you, you and nobody else." Hence, slow down
One piece is an altered, bad coin and the other a blatant counterfeit. I have no idea what you will do next with respect to this transaction, but what you can do next for yourself would be to learn, learn and learn some more before diving in above your knowledge base. Good luck.
Well, it is hard to create another red flag: 77, 16D, meet @ work, Craig's list, "...it was in a slab but...", stranger, unimaginable "work" in the 16D, the wording "I am going to throw up another picture" but camera is on vacation, pointing out the red flags himself along the way "(I told him where I work)" "(Hence, don't have his phone #)"...the video recording, the meeting at high noon, seeing through blue ink (?) with a loop (and buying anyway), the blue ink making it look like a perfect numeral one,"he was rushing me, get a better look at home...".
FYI, if you get "stuck" with counterfeit coins, you can donate them to one of the many clubs, including the ANA, for educational purposes. Most of the clubs will provide a receipt or letter that you might be able to use as a write-off.
Rick has quite an extensive library of counterfeit coins that he brings to our Fly-In Club meetings, and his Summer Seminar class, to help educate us on what to look for in the various types of counterfeits.
"He shows up at around 12 noon with the 1916d cover in blue ink in the 2x2 cardboard but look legit through my 20x loop and this coin."
I use a 20 power to search for varieties. You can see the granularity of the metal with these. Noooo way do you not see a problem with the 16-d with this loupe.
There can't be any police action. He could simply say those are not the coins I gave him. He didn't give me the coins he says he did. I sold them for 20 bucks and here is your money back.
Whatever the excuse he chooses, there is no proof at all.
Is that right Wabbit? What if the emails discussed money? What if there was a receipt/bill of sale? What if the emails had images ? You don't know (and neither do any of us) all the facts
<< <i>Is that right Wabbit? What if the emails discussed money? What if there was a receipt/bill of sale? What if the emails had images ? You don't know (and neither do any of us) all the facts >>
Your right, just pull out that old bill of sale, all is fine.
In an earlier thread I recommended just chalking this up as a loss......If paulyaces76 doesn't like that advice and he wants to confront the guy then plan a second transaction.....Chances are this guy will try it again on Craigslist......Plan to meet him a second time......For all we know paulyaces is 6'6" and 280#
Most internet scammers would probably make an email account and pull off their scam or several scams and make another account.
I doubt the police would get too involved like trying to find him, they might take a report and file it. As far as being a counterfeiting case they'd look at it as a damaged dime and one fake cent so it's not a threat to commerce like fake $100 bills even though it is a fraud. If caught he can claim he bought it as a real coin or found it. I'd take it as learning and be more careful, this seems unbelievable and full of red flags and no green flags.
He made one killing so he has motivation to repeat it. He will probably be back on CL soon with a similar deal trying for a repeat.
It looks fake coming out the gate. The date stands out as phony. You got really ripped if you paid a bundle for it. Probably cost the seller a couple of bucks.
Return it for a refund and threaten to get the authorities if it is not handled promptly.
I needed this to happen! Penny, I will wait until Jan. Fun show and give you the penny. I really enjoy reading your show posts. I am just going to let this go and get super educated on one coin at a time and should not have been dabbling here in the first place! Thanks again for any advise given. I think all has been said in the thread and I am done with it! Just want to move on and hope I don't make the same mistakes. I will also have to stop buying raw on ebay and think it will get a grade! Here is an absolute beauty I bought a couple of years back didn't pass! Questionable color, showed it to my local shop and the guy didn't understand said it looked good to him!
Jeesh, I don't understand why so many posters don't think this could happen to thousands of other collectors.
I've done 500 to 1 coin buying raw. There are more than one example I could give where I got caught up in scams. Might seem dumb to people that haven't been out buying raw face to face, but I assure you it happens. Take the right scammer, with the right story that is smooth, find a gullible collector with little experience and the right way to distract them. Greed takes over, and wham, you've been scammed. Especially when a large number of coins that are legit are presented to you.
Honest OP, it's tuition. Most of us have paid a lot.
<< <i>I needed this to happen! Penny, I will wait until Jan. Fun show and give you the penny. I really enjoy reading your show posts. I am just going to let this go and get super educated on one coin at a time and should not have been dabbling here in the first place! Thanks again for any advise given. I think all has been said in the thread and I am done with it! Just want to move on and hope I don't make the same mistakes. I will also have to stop buying raw on ebay and think it will get a grade! Here is an absolute beauty I bought a couple of years back didn't pass! Questionable color, showed it to my local shop and the guy didn't understand said it looked good to him!
>>
Thank you - I will be happy to take this coin and will give it to the Fly-In Club for educational purposes. I'm very sorry that this happened to you - I always hate seeing people get taken advantage of in our hobby. But if you can use it as a learning experience, you'll be better for it. And I'm sure the majority of us have been there at one time or another. I look forward to seeing you next January.
<< <i>Jeesh, I don't understand why so many posters don't think this could happen to thousands of other collectors.
I've done 500 to 1 coin buying raw. There are more than one example I could give where I got caught up in scams. Might seem dumb to people that haven't been out buying raw face to face, but I assure you it happens. Take the right scammer, with the right story that is smooth, find a gullible collector with little experience and the right way to distract them. Greed takes over, and wham, you've been scammed. Especially when a large number of coins that are legit are presented to you.
Honest OP, it's tuition. Most of us have paid a lot. >>
Wow, thank you for understanding. What you guys don't realize is there were five coins I got. Then he threw in an Republica Mexicana 8 R 1882 made into a ring (could be real worth about $40) Well I am a silver guy and my eyes went right to that thing It's a huge silver dollar with a ring attachment (never seen anything like it). He also had a 1950's womens watch in the bag (said it was his Grandma's) that I was looking at. Well got the whole enchilada and barely looked at those two coins focusing on this cool ring I have never seen! And the "real rare" 2 cent piece I got also. The guy was good! He knew what he was doing. The sick part about it was I wasn't so upset because I traded $840 in coins for this ring. LOL
This is all my new booty! LOL, That large one cent I think is a 1820, could that get a 1 by pcgs? Seriously guys now it has been two days and I think about everyone wearing that ring in my place saying they were Dolomite it was just too much for my little brain, I no longer cared about the coins that were important! Until I was home for two minutes that night and said "****". It took me threeminutes at home to realize I was screwed! Then posted this thread lol!
<<Jeesh, I don't understand why so many posters don't think this could happen to thousands of other collectors.
I've done 500 to 1 coin buying raw. There are more than one example I could give where I got caught up in scams. Might seem dumb to people that haven't been out buying raw face to face, but I assure you it happens. Take the right scammer, with the right story that is smooth, find a gullible collector with little experience and the right way to distract them. Greed takes over, and wham, you've been scammed. Especially when a large number of coins that are legit are presented to you.>> Amigo
You make it sound like hunting with the 12 bores in the deep jungle at night, alone.. You can do that in a shop. Years ago, it was all raw. I never got screwed and I had no database, no internet and no Col. nor Andy nor TDN nor TomB ETC ETC and et cetera (they help me just by posting, I never met anyone, not claiming great friendships or anything like that but credit where credit is due! I hope they tolerate me with a smile) or....everyone one else so valued in this place because it did not exist.
And I never bought anything like the coins here. I am not even sure I ever saw coins like in here, esp with the "ink"... Large number of Coins that are legit? Perhaps, but this is 100% not the case here at all. I find in unbelievable and/or there is another factor being left out upon which I will not speculate. After seeing the last coins posted something clearly...there is a gap between at least two very important things. In no way could "greed take over" here other than that of the scammer and if he is smart he will not be seen again in any context. One is almost forced at gunpoint, at high noon of course, to conclude this is indeed some sort of joke/parody. Who among would admit to buying that first batch, then THOSE last coins and that watch? And then admit this? Again, gunpoint...
Logic - how can blue ink on the 26D produce a perfect numeral one? How did OP see through said ink with a 20X loop? The blue ink over a key date caused no alarm. When I said "I believe your story, for good or bad" I guess I was too vague...
"This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye."
A picture of a real 1977 IHC would be a great addition to this thread. Perhaps a picture here will save someone the trouble of buying a fake in the future.
I was just saying to summarize before, he brought a lot of stuff I hadn't seen and all of a sudden they were part of the deal. He showed real coins online (not these) so, I stupidly glanced at those two coins and was paying more attention to the other stuff. Then, I put the stuff in my trunk at work. When I got home opened the plastic 2x2 for the dime and said ****(yes there was ink on the cardboard 2x2 looked with my loop and said to myself " yep this is the coin I saw online" When really I was fooling myself not seeing anything thru the ink. I had other things to do, I was busy at work. Also, I have said many times before in this thread in NO way am I a collector of these coins. I was looking on craigslist and said looks like a good deal! But, I am sure the negitive posts will keep coming in. I really don't care it was a bonehead move!
I know I should have ripped the 2x2 cardboard open right there just didn't want to destroy any of his stuff if I choose not to buy! Also, some of you have done THOUSANDS of deals face to face. This was my second one, and my last! I always bought off ebay or straight from the mint! I have been to one fun show and have collected for only two years! I don't do face to face deals!
that guy that sold that stuff was a clever operator: misdirection, pushing the deal on a busy work day, and of course the human mind which sees what it wants to see. Everything happens in a context and some with familiarity with fakes and scams can lean back in their armchairs and shovel it on to the o.p., but I give Paulyaces credit for sticking his neck out on this forum which can be brutally honest (good) and also brutal (bad). I hope he is eventually made whole, and he certainly learned a valuable lesson or two.
<< <i>I hope he is eventually made whole, and he certainly learned a valuable lesson or two. >>
I'm thinking more like seven. But, vantage can be chosen...mistakes can represent condensed learning points and I doubt he will make any of these again Here's to hoping he sticks with the hobby.
I am not going anywhere. I will never buy anything without taking it out and inspecting it, asking for drivers licence phone #. I am serious when I tell you, in everyday life, I am as careful as can be. That day, for some reason I resorted back to the feeling I had when I was 7 on Christmas morning LOL! I think I will stay away from raw coins for a while. Just look for good slabbed ones on ebay. I can see the next thread already," Does this slab look legit?"
<< <i>I am not going anywhere. I will never buy anything without taking it out and inspecting it, asking for drivers licence phone #. I am serious when I tell you, in everyday life, I am as careful as can be. That day, for some reason I resorted back to the feeling I had when I was 7 on Christmas morning LOL! I think I will stay away from raw coins for a while. Just look for good slabbed ones on ebay. I can see the next tread already," Does this slab look legit?" >>
I too will tell you that you were buying something that you knew too little about. The advice you are receiving on this forum are mostly a reflection of the defensive driving lessons we have had at one time in our lives. I gather from your postings you may be out $1-2000? In our world now that is a relatively inexpensive lesson. But remember the lesson applies not only to coins. My biggest losses are not from raw coins........they are from oil deals, real estate deal and stock deals. Many times promoted by a "friend". Consequently, I no longer buy coins from "friends", nor do I buy oil wells, stocks or real estate from "friends".
But Craig's List is a step down from eBay and eBay is a step down from reputable dealers who hope to sell you more than one coin. And as you acquire knowledge and a respect for value, auctions provide a very secure way to buy certified coins at competitive prices.
Another aspect of it is that when shopping it's good to have a concise plan on what you want and be careful when other things pop up. Like in this deal, you could have got the other items for almost nothing and they were a distraction. It's also unclear to me what your goal here was other than trade X for "something", I don't get the reasoning. With a concise plan you can do your homework on the item you're looking for and think it over in advance. With coins, some dealers know a lot about everything and can buy many things over the counter but all shoppers might not be ready for such diversity without some homework. Lets say at a show you go to look for X but get offered Y, you might want to stop and think or get advice, look at other options or read up on it before buying. Take a walk and think it over, if the deal goes away that's ok because in most cases it's better to be safe than sorry.
It reminds me of "Jack and the Beanstalk", he was going out for something simple then was offered magic beans that he couldn't pass up.
This is true not only for coins but many things. News was saying how the car recalls brought in many sales because people coming in for recalls were sold new cars. I'd guess that they might not get as good a deal since they might not have done their homework and checked other deals and in reality they were out to get the car fixed free not out to buy a new one for 20-40K. They get home and think about it and might realize they could have done better. Never jump into deals without stopping to think it out and never be rushed because the deal might be lost.
<< <i>I am not going anywhere. I will never buy anything without taking it out and inspecting it, asking for drivers licence phone #. I am serious when I tell you, in everyday life, I am as careful as can be. That day, for some reason I resorted back to the feeling I had when I was 7 on Christmas morning LOL! I think I will stay away from raw coins for a while. Just look for good slabbed ones on ebay. I can see the next tread already," Does this slab look legit?" >>
I too will tell you that you were buying something that you knew too little about. The advice you are receiving on this forum are mostly a reflection of the defensive driving lessons we have had at one time in our lives. I gather from your postings you may be out $1-2000? In our world now that is a relatively inexpensive lesson. But remember the lesson applies not only to coins. My biggest losses are not from raw coins........they are from oil deals, real estate deal and stock deals. Many times promoted by a "friend". Consequently, I no longer buy coins from "friends", nor do I buy oil wells, stocks or real estate from "friends".
But Craig's List is a step down from eBay and eBay is a step down from reputable dealers who hope to sell you more than one coin. And as you acquire knowledge and a respect for value, auctions provide a very secure way to buy certified coins at competitive prices.
OINK >>
If I spent $2000 on a "lesson" that is actually available free I'd blow my brains out. It is not about the level of $ spent, it is that this is mostly totally avoidable with education IMHO. Everyone is in such a rush. Our little planet is spinning at 1,070 miles an hour - that is fast enough for me. There is just no need to dive in the deep end when you can start in the kiddie pool. I take that literally. When a newer collector in any field HAS to have it, I find they often end up getting it, and that's in the end as well. What you say about this being a step down from that certainly holds much truth, but one can find incredible values in many places. As weird stuff lives on thermal vents so deep in the oceans, you can find a raw Gem Pr Merc in a shop in NYC. Just as you can certainly buy a dog in an auction house.
It can seem like numismagic to a newer collector - but the same old rules apply I think. Observation, education, and then, maybe, some action. Going to coin shows and just looking, watching, is a very valuable thing. I thought I might have found a reasonably sweet tiny little deal on eBay the other day. But I asked for two opinions from people I trust first very much. I saved all of...$10!!! I did not even get a dressing down. But, it was an avoidable "risk" and I avoided it simply by asking for help and I am never above that. I am not very worried about $10 - I am wanting to learn more about why I took an appearance as possibly something else - but many factors were in play and me having insomnia at times was among them. That's another reason I asked additional eyes. It was not an "in hand" kind of thing - this was reading a look and a tone pattern from a photo to indicate surface/finish origin. Nothing to be gained by having it in hand as I believe I could answer my own question with one eye closed - in hand. From a photo...
Comments
<< <i>Put the wallet away and stop buying coins for a while....read some books >>
What's the name of the book that teaches common sense?
<< <i>
<< <i>Put the wallet away and stop buying coins for a while....read some books >>
What's the name of the book that teaches common sense? >>
"Hard Knocks"
<< <i>
<< <i>Put the wallet away and stop buying coins for a while....read some books >>
What's the name of the book that teaches common sense? >>
Man's desire leads more men to fall off the side of mountains than books that teach mountain climbing. (as an "aside")
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Tell him he probably didn't know but his coin was counterfeit
You want your coins back
Or
You will turn over your videotape and the info from Craig's list to the secret service counterfeit division and let them handle it
<< <i>You guys can call Bull crap or whatever you want if you look at my history all I talk about is new mint offerings. I was dabbling in stuff I should not have been dabbling in! Gave myself a five minute lesson on these coins and went to work never thought the transaction would happen the way it did. The ones that say stay out of the business if you can fall for such obvious fakes, that is exactly what I am going to do from now on. But, in no way is this story bogus! This is just one of the texts I received from him explaining why he couldn't call me!
My phone screen is cracked I dropped it the other day so I'm working on getting a new one right now. Its easier for me to use email on my WiFi on my table at the moment until I get my new phone through my insurance. But yes the 1877 was in a plastic case but the last guy that was interested insisted that he take out out of the case then he tried tried to low ball me to the bone so I denied his offer. And now its in a regular coin protecter. But yeah let me know if ur serious and I'll try to swing by and meet up with you latter if you like maybe at a Starbucks, bring your coins I'll bring mine and we'll see if we can come to some sort of agreement. Thanks
Now, looking back it did have all the red flags. He was rushing me told me to look at them better when I got home and if anything wasn't right I could get the coins back. Then he rushed out.
I am going to let this go (After all is said and done not to happy the guy knows where I work) but, I understand some are just dicks on here. It will make people like myself run from this place! I didn't need to be put down, I was asking after shelling out more then $800 in coins myself. Most people can't believe that someone could be so gullible, well you found the mark! I don't understand the shear moxie on some but, I have been reading these pages for a long time so, it doesn't surprise me! But, I truly thank the people that were not trying to be harsh. (It is bad enough I made such a mistake!) >>
Hello again,
I can believe your story for good or bad. "Gave myself a five minute lesson on these coins and went to work never thought the transaction would happen the way it did." Now, I gotta ask - how did you remove your first splinter?
Just kidding, really. Never good to get screwed, especially when your doing the screwing.
I am reminded of a line from a Radiohead song I wish I had seen more times live than I did - "Hey man, slow down..." and that is the extent of my advice.
Well, I am now reminded of another Radiohead lyric - "You do it to yourself, you do, and that's why it really hurts. You do it to yourself, just you, you and nobody else." Hence, slow down
Eric
I think his original question has been adequately answered.
Whether or not a refund or police action will happen, the best one can do now is take this as a learning experience.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Come on, where is it "unbelievable"?
Eric
One could think it some sort of market testing.
Rick has quite an extensive library of counterfeit coins that he brings to our Fly-In Club meetings, and his Summer Seminar class, to help educate us on what to look for in the various types of counterfeits.
The Penny Lady®
I use a 20 power to search for varieties. You can see the granularity of the metal with these. Noooo way do you not see a problem with the 16-d with this loupe.
There can't be any police action. He could simply say those are not the coins I gave him. He didn't give me the coins he says he did. I sold them for 20 bucks and here is your money back.
Whatever the excuse he chooses, there is no proof at all.
<< <i>Is that right Wabbit? What if the emails discussed money? What if there was a receipt/bill of sale? What if the emails had images ? You don't know (and neither do any of us) all the facts >>
www.brunkauctions.com
I doubt the police would get too involved like trying to find him, they might take a report and file it.
As far as being a counterfeiting case they'd look at it as a damaged dime and one fake cent so it's not a threat to commerce like fake $100 bills even though it is a fraud. If caught he can claim he bought it as a real coin or found it.
I'd take it as learning and be more careful, this seems unbelievable and full of red flags and no green flags.
He made one killing so he has motivation to repeat it. He will probably be back on CL soon with a similar deal trying for a repeat.
Return it for a refund and threaten to get the authorities if it is not handled promptly.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>This has got to be a gag. >>
That's the conclusion I'm coming to. The IHC could have been written off to inexperience. The 16-D...well, sorry, but no one is that dumb.
Lance.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i> The 16-D...well, sorry, but no one is that dumb.
Lance. >>
Jeesh, I don't understand why so many posters don't think this could happen to thousands of other collectors.
I've done 500 to 1 coin buying raw. There are more than one example I could give where I got caught up in scams. Might seem dumb to people that haven't been out buying raw face to face, but I assure you it happens. Take the right scammer, with the right story that is smooth, find a gullible collector with little experience and the right way to distract them. Greed takes over, and wham, you've been scammed. Especially when a large number of coins that are legit are presented to you.
Honest OP, it's tuition. Most of us have paid a lot.
<< <i>I needed this to happen! Penny, I will wait until Jan. Fun show and give you the penny. I really enjoy reading your show posts. I am just going to let this go and get super educated on one coin at a time and should not have been dabbling here in the first place! Thanks again for any advise given. I think all has been said in the thread and I am done with it! Just want to move on and hope I don't make the same mistakes. I will also have to stop buying raw on ebay and think it will get a grade! Here is an absolute beauty I bought a couple of years back didn't pass! Questionable color, showed it to my local shop and the guy didn't understand said it looked good to him!
Thank you - I will be happy to take this coin and will give it to the Fly-In Club for educational purposes. I'm very sorry that this happened to you - I always hate seeing people get taken advantage of in our hobby. But if you can use it as a learning experience, you'll be better for it. And I'm sure the majority of us have been there at one time or another. I look forward to seeing you next January.
The Penny Lady®
<< <i>Jeesh, I don't understand why so many posters don't think this could happen to thousands of other collectors.
I've done 500 to 1 coin buying raw. There are more than one example I could give where I got caught up in scams. Might seem dumb to people that haven't been out buying raw face to face, but I assure you it happens. Take the right scammer, with the right story that is smooth, find a gullible collector with little experience and the right way to distract them. Greed takes over, and wham, you've been scammed. Especially when a large number of coins that are legit are presented to you.
Honest OP, it's tuition. Most of us have paid a lot. >>
Wow, thank you for understanding. What you guys don't realize is there were five coins I got. Then he threw in an Republica Mexicana 8 R 1882 made into a ring (could be real worth about $40) Well I am a silver guy and my eyes went right to that thing It's a huge silver dollar with a ring attachment (never seen anything like it). He also had a 1950's womens watch in the bag (said it was his Grandma's) that I was looking at. Well got the whole enchilada and barely looked at those two coins focusing on this cool ring I have never seen! And the "real rare" 2 cent piece I got also. The guy was good! He knew what he was doing. The sick part about it was I wasn't so upset because I traded $840 in coins for this ring. LOL
<< <i>He also had a 1950's womens watch in the bag (said it was his Grandma's) >>
Was Grandma's bottle of booze still in there also?
After reading the last 2 posts, I have no idea what is going on or even what the OP is trying to say.
I've done 500 to 1 coin buying raw. There are more than one example I could give where I got caught up in scams. Might seem dumb to people that haven't been out buying raw face to face, but I assure you it happens. Take the right scammer, with the right story that is smooth, find a gullible collector with little experience and the right way to distract them. Greed takes over, and wham, you've been scammed. Especially when a large number of coins that are legit are presented to you.>> Amigo
You make it sound like hunting with the 12 bores in the deep jungle at night, alone.. You can do that in a shop. Years ago, it was all raw. I never got screwed and I had no database, no internet and no Col. nor Andy nor TDN nor TomB ETC ETC and et cetera (they help me just by posting, I never met anyone, not claiming great friendships or anything like that but credit where credit is due! I hope they tolerate me with a smile) or....everyone one else so valued in this place because it did not exist.
And I never bought anything like the coins here. I am not even sure I ever saw coins like in here, esp with the "ink"...
Large number of Coins that are legit? Perhaps, but this is 100% not the case here at all. I find in unbelievable and/or there is another factor being left out upon which I will not speculate.
After seeing the last coins posted something clearly...there is a gap between at least two very important things. In no way could "greed take over" here other than that of the scammer and if he is smart he will not be seen again in any context.
One is almost forced at gunpoint, at high noon of course, to conclude this is indeed some sort of joke/parody. Who among would admit to buying that first batch, then THOSE last coins and that watch? And then admit this? Again, gunpoint...
Logic - how can blue ink on the 26D produce a perfect numeral one? How did OP see through said ink with a 20X loop? The blue ink over a key date caused no alarm. When I said "I believe your story, for good or bad" I guess I was too vague...
"This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye."
Eric
Admiral Cartwright - "Arrest that man!"
Spock - "Arrest yourself!"
Edit for sentence structure.
<< <i>! ….."****". It took me threeminutes at home to realize I was screwed! Then posted this thread lol!
…. Something tells me you knew right away. I am for you, not against you. And this is why some coin dealers want to drink.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
A picture of a real 1977 IHC would be a great addition to this thread. Perhaps a picture here will save someone the trouble of buying a fake in the future.
I know I should have ripped the 2x2 cardboard open right there just didn't want to destroy any of his stuff if I choose not to buy! Also, some of you have done THOUSANDS of deals face to face. This was my second one, and my last! I always bought off ebay or straight from the mint! I have been to one fun show and have collected for only two years! I don't do face to face deals!
-Bullwinkle
<< <i>"Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat."
-Bullwinkle >>
Exactly, don't look over at these two, look at this other cool stuff you've already seen pictures of that stuff!
<< <i>I hope he is eventually made whole, and he certainly learned a valuable lesson or two. >>
I'm thinking more like seven. But, vantage can be chosen...mistakes can represent condensed learning points and I doubt he will make any of these again
Eric
<< <i>I am not going anywhere. I will never buy anything without taking it out and inspecting it, asking for drivers licence phone #. I am serious when I tell you, in everyday life, I am as careful as can be. That day, for some reason I resorted back to the feeling I had when I was 7 on Christmas morning LOL! I think I will stay away from raw coins for a while. Just look for good slabbed ones on ebay. I can see the next tread already," Does this slab look legit?" >>
I too will tell you that you were buying something that you knew too little about. The advice you are receiving on this forum are mostly a reflection of the defensive driving lessons we have had at one time in our lives. I gather from your postings you may be out $1-2000? In our world now that is a relatively inexpensive lesson. But remember the lesson applies not only to coins. My biggest losses are not from raw coins........they are from oil deals, real estate deal and stock deals. Many times promoted by a "friend". Consequently, I no longer buy coins from "friends", nor do I buy oil wells, stocks or real estate from "friends".
But Craig's List is a step down from eBay and eBay is a step down from reputable dealers who hope to sell you more than one coin. And as you acquire knowledge and a respect for value, auctions provide a very secure way to buy certified coins at competitive prices.
OINK
Like in this deal, you could have got the other items for almost nothing and they were a distraction.
It's also unclear to me what your goal here was other than trade X for "something", I don't get the reasoning.
With a concise plan you can do your homework on the item you're looking for and think it over in advance. With coins, some dealers know a lot about everything and can buy many things over the counter but all shoppers might not be ready for such diversity without some homework. Lets say at a show you go to look for X but get offered Y, you might want to stop and think or get advice, look at other options or read up on it before buying.
Take a walk and think it over, if the deal goes away that's ok because in most cases it's better to be safe than sorry.
It reminds me of "Jack and the Beanstalk", he was going out for something simple then was offered magic beans that he couldn't pass up.
This is true not only for coins but many things. News was saying how the car recalls brought in many sales because people coming in for recalls were sold new cars. I'd guess that they might not get as good a deal since they might not have done their homework and checked other deals and in reality they were out to get the car fixed free not out to buy a new one for 20-40K. They get home and think about it and might realize they could have done better. Never jump into deals without stopping to think it out and never be rushed because the deal might be lost.
<< <i>
<< <i>I am not going anywhere. I will never buy anything without taking it out and inspecting it, asking for drivers licence phone #. I am serious when I tell you, in everyday life, I am as careful as can be. That day, for some reason I resorted back to the feeling I had when I was 7 on Christmas morning LOL! I think I will stay away from raw coins for a while. Just look for good slabbed ones on ebay. I can see the next tread already," Does this slab look legit?" >>
I too will tell you that you were buying something that you knew too little about. The advice you are receiving on this forum are mostly a reflection of the defensive driving lessons we have had at one time in our lives. I gather from your postings you may be out $1-2000? In our world now that is a relatively inexpensive lesson. But remember the lesson applies not only to coins. My biggest losses are not from raw coins........they are from oil deals, real estate deal and stock deals. Many times promoted by a "friend". Consequently, I no longer buy coins from "friends", nor do I buy oil wells, stocks or real estate from "friends".
But Craig's List is a step down from eBay and eBay is a step down from reputable dealers who hope to sell you more than one coin. And as you acquire knowledge and a respect for value, auctions provide a very secure way to buy certified coins at competitive prices.
OINK >>
If I spent $2000 on a "lesson" that is actually available free I'd blow my brains out. It is not about the level of $ spent, it is that this is mostly totally avoidable with education IMHO. Everyone is in such a rush. Our little planet is spinning at 1,070 miles an hour - that is fast enough for me. There is just no need to dive in the deep end when you can start in the kiddie pool. I take that literally. When a newer collector in any field HAS to have it, I find they often end up getting it, and that's in the end as well.
It can seem like numismagic to a newer collector - but the same old rules apply I think. Observation, education, and then, maybe, some action. Going to coin shows and just looking, watching, is a very valuable thing. I thought I might have found a reasonably sweet tiny little deal on eBay the other day. But I asked for two opinions from people I trust first very much. I saved all of...$10!!! I did not even get a dressing down. But, it was an avoidable "risk" and I avoided it simply by asking for help and I am never above that. I am not very worried about $10 - I am wanting to learn more about why I took an appearance as possibly something else - but many factors were in play and me having insomnia at times was among them. That's another reason I asked additional eyes. It was not an "in hand" kind of thing - this was reading a look and a tone pattern from a photo to indicate surface/finish origin. Nothing to be gained by having it in hand as I believe I could answer my own question with one eye closed - in hand. From a photo...
Best wishes,
Eric
Yes on police report. They can track this guy easily with the help of Craigslist. Don't let him get away with this.