1834 Bust Dime ... Opinions?

SAM5969

This 1834 Bust Dime has a wonderful "original" look and appearance to my eye. I find this look very appealing. The coin has a thick skin/patina and excellent natural toning in sienna/brown/rusty silver. All 13 stars show very light wear and are 3 dimensional and well defined. The eagle details show thick, bushy feathers with dirt baked into the recesses black-washing the design. The coin appears to be well struck but I certainly haven't seen enough to know plus the coin is circulated confusing the issue even more. 2 micro cuts can be seen on the eagle's beak, to the left and to the right of the eye.. One other small mark can be seen on the shield which is even smaller and blends well with the horizontal lines of the shield. There is the smallest and shallowest of rim bruises at 4:00 on the obverse which is so minor and causes less than 1 degree of rim displacement, I hadn't noticed it until recently. Otherwise, there are no other hits, marks or other problems that I can see. These marks are very small and fairly insignificant to me; especially on a 180 year old coin that circulated for a goodly chunk of it's existence.

Aged dirt is baked into the design elements and the letters in the motto, E Pluribus Unum, the letters in United States, particularly the D and letters with hollows and above the eagle's head along with other random areas.

Your observations and opinions are encouraged as I do not handle a lot of these coins. Please offer a grade range if you so desire - I am thinking choice VF, maybe VF-30. Thank you in advance

lordmarcovan

Scattered small marks notwithstanding, I think it's a pretty decent looking "Crusty Bustie".

STONE

Very nice piece. As for grade, easily a VF-35, and a strong one at that, but not quite EF.

Walkerguy21D

Nice coin. Gotta be close to XF40....I'd guesstimate VF35.

Once Stone and some of the other fellows see this, you'll get expert opinions and the die variety/R-x as well.

Edited to add - Looks like our replies overlapped - LOL!

BillJones

It is a nice original coin ... not perfect because there might be something under a bit of crud ... but certainly a prime example of well circulated coin that survived its time in the channels of commerce quite well.

My grade would VF-25, and given that it is a circulated coin I'd say that it is perfect for the grade.

DIMEMAN

Looks like a JR6 and I'm with the VF30-35 crowd. I think Bill is being a little hard on the coin.

Boosibri

VF25... Not seeing EF

Edited: no grade that is VF24

STONE

Bill Jones and Boosibri - please sell me ALL your VF-25 Bust Dimes.


Edited to add: Here's a little grading tip for bust dimes...
When you see this 'line' or 'initials' on this clasp, the coin is at least a VF-35.
This is pretty much the highest point on the coin and wears away the fastest.
Sometimes you see this on strong VF-30's, but it is ALWAYS absent on coins lower than VF-30.
On coins with weaker strikes this device is sometimes missing on even EF coins, but those are pretty much only on the Open-Collar types.

hchcoin

That is exactly what a circulated bust coin should look like in my opinion. Great looking coin that would fit in well with any VF collection.

Baley

I think it would be 35, maybe 40, except that it does have the aforementioned marks and rim dings, so I'd agree with VF 30 or perhaps 28.

Nice coin overall, but a few of those marks are just a little more heavy than "commensurate with the grade", IMO

bosco5041

Nice looking original coin and they are cheap at this level to.

hchcoin

Stone - thanks for the grading tip. I like things that are easy and simple to understand like this. Just like the horn on a buffalo nickel.

BillJones

The coin does not have enough eye appeal to be a VF-35. That grade requires a debate as to whether or not the coin is an EF-40. Except via "grade-flation" that coin is not where near an EF-40. You might squeeze 5 more points to VF-30, but at that point the piece would be maxed out. The minor issues and the scratches cannot be ignored.

STONE

<< <i>The coin does not have enough eye appeal to be a VF-35. That grade requires a debate as to whether or not the coin is an EF-40. Except via "grade-flation" that coin is not where near an EF-40. You might squeeze 5 more points to VF-30, but at that point the piece would be maxed out. The minor issues and the scratches cannot be ignored. >>


The coin has plenty of eye-appeal for its respective grade...that's how a normal silver coin with that wear pattern is supposed to look. Those 'scratches' are extremely minor and are normal from circulation, and play a very minor role in the coins grade. The coin speaks for itself as not being an EF...never, ever. If you look at the majority of TPG graded VF-35's you will see most of the coins look like the one the OP has posted. You will see very few called VF-30, and I would love for you to show me a TPG VF-25 which looks like the OP's...if so - BUY IT!

I'm not saying that TPG graded coins should be relied upon as perfect, because they aren't, but they are a fairly honest standard for consistent grading.

BillJones

My response is that the grading services have watered down the circulated grades. It has been this way for many years. What used to be VG for a 1916-D Mercury dime is now VF. The same applies to 1877 Indian cents.

I think that this dime is nice, original VF, but it's not EF.

SAM5969

Thanks guys- I made it to be a 30 without knowing a whole lot about these
As I was doing a little more looking around I was just on Dick Osbournes site and found this PCGS 25.. I wouldn't buy this as anything above a F12 maybe 15... I agree and respect the opinions of Stone et.al. I haven't compared this VF25 to others .. All I know is this coin is much more worn .. Look at the eagle feathers on the Osborn 25 just for starters ... And for the record, I've always preferred strict conservative grading .. When there is any doubt, it should always be the lower grade

STONE

<< <i>Thanks guys- I made it to be a 30 without knowing a whole lot about these
As I was doing a little more looking around I was just on Dick Osbournes site and found this PCGS 25.. I wouldn't buy this as anything above a F12 maybe 15... I agree and respect the opinions of Stone et.al. I haven't compared this VF25 to others .. All I know is this coin is much more worn .. Look at the eagle feathers on the Osborn 25 just for starters ... And for the record, I've always preferred strict conservative grading .. When there is any doubt, it should always be the lower grade


>>


I agree, this is barely a Fine, and the obverse is carrying it...there was a period about 3-4 years ago when PCGS was SUPER OVERGRADING Bust Dimes like this.

DIMEMAN

The wing feathers and clasp on the OP's coin dictates a high VF grade, but it is not XF. Which is what Stone and other including myself have been trying to state.

NumisOxide

Vf30 nice crust

roadrunner

Call it whatever you like.

But we all know down at our local coin shops a coin like this would be priced at XF money every time.