<< <i>Many folks including yourself went on to justify why dealers should be accepting credit cards and rationalizing your reasons. Dealers could just as easily come up with various reasons as to why buyers should have to pay in cash. >>
No, really, they couldn't. There isn't a reputable industry out there which requires the use of cash.
It's really not debatable that dealers - or anyone who sells something - should accept credit cards.
<< <i>Many folks including yourself went on to justify why dealers should be accepting credit cards and rationalizing your reasons. Dealers could just as easily come up with various reasons as to why buyers should have to pay in cash. >>
No, really, they couldn't. There isn't a reputable industry out there which requires the use of cash.
It's really not debatable that dealers - or anyone who sells something - should accept credit cards. >>
Obviously, you are injecting YOUR view and preferences on to this world. It's THEIR call to make. It's not up for vote. Should attorneys, doctors, accountants, nannies, house cleaners, dog walkers, baby sitters whom all sell a "reputable" service also accept credit cards? According to you, it's really not debatable. Many of these dealers don't own store fronts and many of them sell irregularly. They shouldn't have to go out of their comfort zone to appease YOU or anyone else.
I've seen dealers be belligerent to customers, including kids. We probably all have. I've seen many of them not even acknowledge customers when it's obvious a sale might be in the immediate offing. I've seen them put their greasy in-the-middle of eating a hamburger hands on items without even bothering to wipe with a napkin. And the fact that they won't accept electronic payments is somehow the biggest issue that most people want to opine on? Eat the nominal ATM fee and pay with cash if that's what their terms of sale and if you want the item that badly. It REALLY is that simple. >>
From a dealer's perspective what is the big deal about a low ball offer. You just politely say no. I had someone at my table go through cards for an hour, pull out a huge stack and offer 30% of the sticker price. It was his hour that he spent going through cards, I was behind the table regardless.
"Dealer" is such a funny word to me. I know the National is different, but at local shows the "dealers" are really just whoever paid for a table, and I am CERTAIN my collection is better than a lot of theirs. I just don't set up because it's more trouble than I feel like it would be worth when my extras can be for sale online every day with no additional effort.
I would say that if you setup at a show, you should try to figure out how to take credit card payments (even if only through Paypal) if you truly want to sell.
In terms of buying cards as a "dealer", I would expect payment consistent with what I was trying to sell. If it was a couple hundred bucks, I'd probably expect cash but if they didn't have it I would probably consider Paypal. If it was a 1956 Topps graded set, I think I would understand a company check or a Paypal payment and would factor any fees into the pricing if necessary.
I honestly hadn't really thought about Paypal gift as the preferred way at a show, but I guess if I was walking away with the card then I would probably be ok with that. I probably would NOT pay the same price, though, I'd expect the fee savings to pass at least partially over to me if not completely. Only exception I might make is if it was something that had a history of forgery, like Jordan RCs or that sort of thing - if I wasn't 100% sure I wouldn't but it and I definitely would not pay gift for it.
Just my perspective, but at our local shows I'd say maybe 50% of the "dealers" were legitimate, the other half are just other collectors who paid for a table. Big difference.
<< <i>That's ok. I made my point. I'll let you do your own homework. I'm sure if you look hard enough for the right website with the right poll you will come back and tell us those 200 million folks just use them for wall decorations or paperweights.
And philosophical advice from a Brad Pitt movie? Really? What, no applicable Star Wars quotes? >>
No, you thought you made your point, but since you're stuck in 1987 you didn't bother to utilize this revolutionary new tool called "Google" to find out that land line use is right up there with cash use and Beckett price guide use.
That "philosophical advice" from the Brad Pitt movie completely changed the course of Major League Baseball. You're the old scout. The rest of us are Billy Beane. Not that you have any idea what I just said. >>
Wow. Snarky, presumptuous AND condescending...almost precisely the response I expected. Stay classy!
Customer oriented dealers, sellers, and merchants number 1 reason to accept credit cards is not to make it convenient for their customers, though that is nice, but is to make that "impulse sale". Years ago when they had reps that came by your store to sale & set you up with credit cards would use that as their #1 selling pitch. IMPULSE BUYING
<< <i>Obviously, you are injecting YOUR view and preferences on to this world. It's THEIR call to make. It's not up for vote. Should attorneys, doctors, accountants, nannies, house cleaners, dog walkers, baby sitters whom all sell a "reputable" service also accept credit cards? According to you, it's really not debatable. Many of these dealers don't own store fronts and many of them sell irregularly. They shouldn't have to go out of their comfort zone to appease YOU or anyone else. >>
Yes, they all should, with the exception of a high school kid making a few bucks on the side babysitting for a neighbor. A grown man setting up at an event at which he has thousands of dollars of merchandise for sale absolutely should accept credit and debit cards in the year 2014. You're right, according to me it's really not debatable.
<< <i>Eat the nominal ATM fee and pay with cash if that's what their terms of sale and if you want the item that badly. It REALLY is that simple. >>
Exactly 1000% the opposite of what should be taught to any aspiring entrepreneur, no matter how small-time they are. "Force the customer to adapt to your selfish desires. Don't give in. Make the customer go out of their way if they really want your item." Pure genius. I'm shocked that Steve Jobs didn't think of this first.
many dealers are dressed as they just got done doing an oil change on a car,they smell,and are slobbing down food behind their tables.They talk to the dealer next to them and do not aknowledge you.
<< <i>What in the world are you even talking about??? I would hardly describe most of these dealers as "aspiring entrepreneurs". Virtually EVERY business is "selfish" and in some way shape or form "FORCES" customers to adapt to their desires. Your vaunted Steve Jobs is a classic example of that selfish desire taken to extremes. We could literally go on and on about examples where Apple does things NOT for customers' benefit or convenience (even when they could EASILY do so).
The only thing you've made clear is that you feel that sellers should have to "adapt to YOUR selfish desires". Hypocritical much??? It's a free country, in case that wasn't clear to you. They can run their businesses however they want. It's not for YOU or anyone else to dictate the terms of their business. If you believe that it is THAT much of an erroneous policy on their parts, then they'll suffer the consequences. But either way, that is THEIR choice to make. >>
Apple at least has the basic concept down: if people want to give you money, don't make it difficult for them.
Having the option to use a credit card or debit card isn't a selfish desire. It's a paradigm change that some of you are having difficulty keeping up with. It's not me that expects to be able to use virtual money, it's the entire world. With the exception, apparently, of some grizzled old baseball card guys.
As for feeling that sellers should have to adapt to the customers' desires, welcome to the first day of Intro to Business. How can we make this the best experience possible for the customer? How can we ensure that customers come back? I missed the lecture when they taught us to ignore global trends and just do what worked 20 years ago because that's how we like to do it.
<< <i>Apple does make it difficult. They choose either one of two main options to distribute their goods. Their online site or their stores. You can order them through other avenues but you can't go to Best Buy or Staples or most any other retailer (if any) to buy their products. It's certainly not for a lack of demand through those channels in either the end consumer or the distribution entities.
And your notions of "paradigm" and "global trends" is entirely laughable. You make it sound like they are competing with conglomerates from China and India. These are SPORTS CARD DEALERS. Totally apples and oranges. If they have a perfectly centered 1968 Mickey Mantle in Mint or NM-MT condition, I don't give a damn how inconvenient they make it for me, I will buy it under their terms. As common as that card may seem, I've viewed hundreds of examples and yet to find one to my liking. That's the thing, they deal in items that aren't like iphones or computers where you can buy an unlimited amount to your hearts content. There is a finite quantity. Just look at BBCE and all the rage with unopened product. It's not even like a lot of that stuff is rare but you can't just go to the dealer next door and expect to plunk down your money and buy it. On top of all that, if a dealer feels like they can get an extra 3%+ waiting for a cash buyer, why in the world should they have to eat that to accommodate your "global trends" or "customers desires". >>
Wow, if you don't have a clue how Apple works you should refrain from talking about Apple. I purchased my iPhone 5 at Best Buy. We hauled my daughter down to Wal-Mart to purchase her iPad. Seriously, look this stuff up before you put it in writing right next to your username. That's embarrassing.
You don't think the paradigm shift of using virtual money is real? Like I said earlier, stand in line behind a group of people at any retail store. It's all plastic. People don't carry cash.
So your effort to convince me to use cash is to give me an example in which I would need to carry $2,000 around a card show? Just in case I find the card that you admit that you've never found? Yeah, you sold me there.
No you don't. You said that they only sell through their stores or online. Now you realize your mistake. Retail stores have whole sections dedicated to Apple. Now that you mention it, both of the MacBooks in our home were bought at non-Apple stores. You were so far off on Apple's sales tactics that I'm surprised that you keep bringing it up.
<< <i>Yes there undoubtedly a shift in using virtual money and I'm ALL for it. No one is suggesting that there isn't. But there's over $1 trillion dollars of currency in circulation. What's embarrassing is that you would make completely false claims like "It's all plastic. People don't carry cash." Most people I know carry cash. YOU probably do and if you don't, YOU are undoubtedly in the minority.
No one is remotely trying to convince you of ANYTHING let alone using cash. My position is that dealers have EVERY RIGHT to determine the terms of sale for their product as they see fit without the arrogance of people like you supposing for them what they should be doing. >>
Oh, I don't question their RIGHT to do it. I'm just saying that it's colossally stupid and that any business that wants to sell things in 2014 and beyond should unquestionably allow for electronic payments. The cash I carry is a handful of ones just in case I'm craving a soda or my daughter needs a couple of bucks to buy something at school. I certainly don't carry $150 to the grocery store or $2K to the local card show.
You make a lot of maligning assertions based entirely on YOUR subjective viewpoint that you continue to calibrate around as if it is the ONLY viewpoint in existence. That may be fine in your own narcissistic world but there are people outside of your own little mind who actually like to think for themselves and their thoughts might be very inconsistent with your view on things. That’s life! You seem hell bent on being one of those radicals on the left or right who think the only way to do things is YOUR way. Get a clue!
I'm sure dealers have a wide range of their own reasons why they only want to accept cash. It may not always be because they are "stubborn" or "stupid" or evading taxes. And you seem to think that if they don't sell to you or some other credit card waving collector with an overbearing sense of entitlement, that the card will stay in their inventory forever. Guess what, if it's remotely a desired item, IT WILL SELL FOR CASH sooner or later WITHOUT eating an extra 3%+. >>
Let's put it this way: no one needs to take the advice of a guy who doesn't know that Apple products are sold in non-Apple locations and who thinks that the customer is the one who is supposed to cater to the business. If I didn't see the anger in your posts, I would swear that someone made an account just to screw with me. That's how off-the-wall your position is.
And maybe that's why many think this hobby of ours is rapidly dying. A good many people at card shows and a good many dealers are 50ish or older and absolutely stuck on the way things have always been done. Carry cash, only accept cash, meticulous handwritten wantlists, refusal to accept and embrace technology. Sure, a dealer has every right to dictate how they wish to conduct their business. If they are comfortable with the volume they do, great. But, don't let me hear one of them b*tch about how poorly their show went when they haul their fat ass out of their chair to grab their Beckett to price their unmarked card(s), then dictate their cash-only terms, then grumble as the customer walks away.
Coachnip is exactly right - a good business makes it as easy as possible for the prospective customer to leave their money with them. If that means eating 3% for the debit/credit fee, so be it. I'd much rather eat 3% and sell my product for a lower margin than see the customer turned away by my archaic business model and make no profit at all.
As for cash, I don't carry it. It's bulky and inconvenient. If I can make my purchase by swiping and leaving, then I'm in. Cash slows the buying process to a crawl - for some comedy relief try watching one mouth breather struggling to count out how much money they need to pay while the mouth breather on the other side of the counter struggles to figure out how much change to grab. Cash is also filthy - I prefer not to have someone else's unwashed, fresh-from-the-bathroom hands giving me grubby money to put in my wallet and get their filth on my hands. If it's cash-only I go somewhere that will accommodate my buying preferences.
<< <i>There is no anger whatsoever on my part. If you know me at all, you'd know that is just my writing style, often times even in the most benign topics being discussed. I'm just utterly surprised that certain people (e.g YOU) want to decide for others how they should run their business. If it's such a mistake for them not to accept credit cards as you suggest, it should be THEM that suffers the consequences. That should make you happy since you seem so hell bent on thinking that you're unquestionably right on the matter. Yet, you litter this thread with YOUR anger about dealer practices that only should affect you in it's inconvenience toward YOU. And God knows, we certainly can't have that. It would be beyond unthinkable to inconvenience Coachnip13 in the slightest while he's in the process of collecting cards. Get over yourself! >>
You're so flustered that you inevitably make this about me while not being able to stay on topic.
I am unquestionably right on the matter. That's what makes this discussion so sad. You're actually fighting against a truth of the times that we live in. This isn't an opinion piece.
<< <i>But where people want to go off on vitriolic rants about how others should behave, just to accommodate the way they want to be treated and dealt with, that's an entirely different matter. >>
So when you go into a restaurant, are you perfectly okay if the server brings your food and never again comes back until it's time to get paid? Or do you expect the restaurant to make sure your needs are met, since you are the one handing over your money? What if the hostess told you to go back into the kitchen when you are ready to cook your meal? Would you walk out? Or would you accept the way the restaurant does things just because that's how they want to do it? You unquestionably have an expectation of how you want to be treated as a customer. To say otherwise is just flat out lying.
For the life of me, I have never heard the business philosophy of making the customer change in order to avoid inconveniencing the business. And this guy has repeated it like four times.
<< <i>As for the 3%, when a dealer is sitting on a desired item, he SHOULD maximize the profit while he has it because once again, there's only so much good product available and it's not like they can call up their wholesaler and reorder a bunch of perfectly centered vintage Mantles. >>
i have no problem with wanting to maximize profit, but sticking to your guns over 3% is backwards. At some point the dealer laid out money for his various inventory items. How long that inventory sits there depends on the dealer's willingness to adapt to the customer's buying preference. If I'm a dealer sitting on a minty-fresh '68 Mantle that I've had for a while, I want to eventually get something out of it so that I can purchase more inventory that might turn more quickly and perhaps get me the profit margin I desire. I might even have to sell it for what I've got into or take a small loss so that I have the liquidity to move a different direction. Not everyone can afford to be Levi Bleem and sit on a mountain of inventory waiting for the perfect buyer to happen along. I for one wouldn't want to sit on that much dead inventory just because I want to do business MY way.
<< <i>And so goes "unquestionably" the most arrogant statement I've ever read on these boards.
As for being flustered, you seem to be the one flustered by simple dealer terms because they won't cater to your every whim. Oh well, get use to it. I'm sure there are plenty of things in life that will ultimately disappoint far beyond card dealers refusing to accept cash. >>
Oh, you think you're right too. You just don't have the guts to say it as bluntly as I did.
Yes, I get frustrated if a business makes the transaction difficult for me. I am not ashamed of that. As someone with a modicum of common sense, I see that the most successful businesses are the ones that put the customer first. I walk into Chick-Fil-A, six different people greet me and can't wait to take my order. I walk into McDonald's, some pissed off kid finally puts his phone down to take my order. Where do you think I would rather take my business?
Once again, I'm not sure why you are having such a difficult time grasping the few simple concepts I've stated. Card dealing is NOT like a regular business. Concerning restaurants, they are in COMPETITION with PLENTY of other restaurants for patrons to their establishment. A dealer with a particularly desired items IS NOT in competition. Such a simple thing like a 1968 Mantle in 8 or 9 and years of searching for one to my liking and NEVER considering cost and yet I STILL don't have one. When a dealer has one that I want, it's something OTHERS will want. And there won't be virtually any other dealer offering it (and almost surely NONE). Meaning, there is NO COMPETITION in MANY collectibles transactions. >>
LOL, I think it's clear who isn't grasping the concepts.
You keep bringing up this MINT 1968 Mantle. Then you say that you've never found one. Therefore, dealers must be selling things that aren't so rare after all. Instead of focusing on this one example that has never happened, why not face reality and admit that a lot of the same things are being sold around the show.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Baseball, I'm not sure what your search for a '68 Mantle that meets your standards has to do with the subject at hand. When and if you find your Mantle, the vendor's payment options won't matter - you will do what it takes to make the transaction work. You aren't the customer we're talking about. If a dealer wants to succeed, he will make it as easy as possible for almost any customer to walk up to his table and make a purchase. Cater to the masses, not the minority. The majority isn't looking for that one Mantle that meets their specifications - they need a nice-looking '68 Mantle, and there are lots of dealers out there that have them. If I need one, I will do business with the guy that will happily take my card instead if making me carry around thousands in cash or go hunting for an ATM. I will do business with the guy that makes it easier to do business.
Cards are not always faster and I don't understand the term "mouth breather" as an insult. It's more efficient to have both cash and cards available. Usually it's faster with a card, but not always. It's also best to have both your mouth and nose available for breathing, though usually I use my nose. For flea markets and shows, I seem to occasionally run into people who are trying to accept cards, but some system is down or there isn't signal. Cash gets it done much much faster there. And using your mouth to breath while you swim is the preferred method for most. Is it really that awful to breath through your mouth.
And if you're that worried about filth, you can't leave the house. First off, a dog has pissed on every public surface lower than 3 feet and no one cleaned it. Restaurants don't sterilize the silverware and it frequently appears to be a token cleaning if you peek behind the curtain. You've almost certainly shaken hands with someone who did multiple businesses within a 5 min period before that. If not, you got it all that time you touched the remote at a hotel. The chair you're in right now has almost certainly been farted on by someone other than yourself. There's probably a million more, but handling cash isn't the end of the world.
Edit: just paid cash for tacos. Got the wrong change and held up the line. Smart a-- karma I guess.
To bigdcards: "you are right" - cpamike "That is correct" -grote15
You make a lot of maligning assertions based entirely on YOUR subjective viewpoint that you continue to calibrate around as if it is the ONLY viewpoint in existence. That may be fine in your own narcissistic world but there are people outside of your own little mind who actually like to think for themselves and their thoughts might be very inconsistent with your view on things. That’s life! You seem hell bent on being one of those radicals on the left or right who think the only way to do things is YOUR way. Get a clue!
I'm sure dealers have a wide range of their own reasons why they only want to accept cash. It may not always be because they are "stubborn" or "stupid" or evading taxes. And you seem to think that if they don't sell to you or some other credit card waving collector with an overbearing sense of entitlement, that the card will stay in their inventory forever. Guess what, if it's remotely a desired item, IT WILL SELL FOR CASH sooner or later WITHOUT eating an extra 3%+. >>
+50. But give up trying to get it to sink in...
No one here is denying that card use is a reality but it appears our friend CN13 will not accept anything less than full agreement with his position that anyone not accepting them is somehow wrong, a dinosaur, outdated, and/or doomed to fail... and anyone interjecting the fact that billions of dollars in cash circulate daily is met with insult, ridicule, and condescension, and treated as if somehow inferior.
Am I the only one who thinks that perhaps sometime in the past he got turned down on a purchase because the seller didn't accept cards? That would explain a lot of the hate. Even if true it would never be admitted though.
<< <i>+50. But give up trying to get it to sink in...
No one here is denying that card use is a reality but it appears our friend CN13 will not accept anything less than full agreement with his position that anyone not accepting them is somehow wrong, a dinosaur, outdated, and/or doomed to fail... and anyone interjecting the fact that billions of dollars in cash circulate daily is met with insult, ridicule, and condescension, and treated as if somehow inferior.
Am I the only one who thinks that perhaps sometime in the past he got turned down on a purchase because the seller didn't accept cards? That would explain a lot of the hate. Even if true it would never be admitted though. >>
You're giving a +50 to a guy who didn't know that Apple sells in other retail stores besides its own. Not exactly the cutting edge knowledge base that is required to discuss this topic. Maybe you two should get together and head over to the malt shop and listen to The Green Hornet and talk about that elusive 1968 Mantle that has him carrying thousands of dollars in cash to a card show.
Do you know why billions of dollars in cash circulate daily? Because people who sell things accept both. Shocking, I know.
So now I can't keep up with the guy who insists that customers should bend toward the seller's needs and not the other way around? And who claims that buyers should carry around two grand in $100 bills just in case someone is selling a card that this guy has never seen? You can keep up with insults, as it shows your character, but the best retort I can possibly come up with is to re-post the nonsense that you have put in writing. It speaks for itself.
Not sure if this is exactly what the OP is asking but my main pet peeve regarding sellers is when they play the "I'm not a professional grader" card. And back before Feebay rightfully clamped down on this, I also did not like at all sellers who claim "I am not responsible for what happens to your product during shipping unless you pay extra for insurance". So IOW, if the product arrives damaged/destroyed due to the seller's poor packaging job, you're out the product AND the seller keeps all your money? No way Jose.
<< <i>So now I can't keep up with the guy who insists that customers should bend toward the seller's needs and not the other way around? And who claims that buyers should carry around two grand in $100 bills just in case someone is selling a card that this guy has never seen? You can keep up with insults, as it shows your character, but the best retort I can possibly come up with is to re-post the nonsense that you have put in writing. It speaks for itself. >>
Pot...Kettle... (I know that post wasn't for me but couldn't resist.)
And I guess I missed the part where anyone's saying that "customers should bend towards the seller's needs". For the umpteenth time, what they're saying is that it is the SELLER'S RIGHT TO DO BUSINESS HOW HE PLEASES and neither you, I, nor anyone else can dictate otherwise. Are you so dense that you can't get that, even after it's been stated here in print multiple times?
You can argue they're losing potential sales, you can argue that all the cool kids are using cards now and cash is so yesterday, you can hold your breath until everyone agrees with your views, yada freaking yada. But it doesn't mean that by default that your almighty opinion is anything more than just that...your opinion. Hey, if you're right then this huge problem (huge in your mind at least) will remedy itself one way or another.
The more I read your ranting and whining the more I'm convinced that someone, somewhere, wouldn't sell you something because they wouldn't take your card and/or you didn't have the cash, and you've had a big chip on your shoulder about it ever since, just like a kid who couldn't get the toy he wanted.
Oh, and as to the "malt shop/green hornet" crack, very original by the way... FYI I just turned 50. (Of course that's probably ancient to someone with the debating skill-and apparent maturity level-of a 13 year old.)
Hell hath no fury like a message board poster scorned, LOL!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I'm guilty I apologize I started the thread. No clue anyone would get all upset over it. I just had a bad experience at Chantilly last week. I was more upset that the guy was rude than the fact that he only took cash.
Haven't had one of these threads in a while. Where's popcorn girl when you need her? (although I'd prefer the gif of that girl that was shaking her boobs from a few years back).
Comments
<< <i>Many folks including yourself went on to justify why dealers should be accepting credit cards and rationalizing your reasons. Dealers could just as easily come up with various reasons as to why buyers should have to pay in cash. >>
No, really, they couldn't. There isn't a reputable industry out there which requires the use of cash.
It's really not debatable that dealers - or anyone who sells something - should accept credit cards.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Many folks including yourself went on to justify why dealers should be accepting credit cards and rationalizing your reasons. Dealers could just as easily come up with various reasons as to why buyers should have to pay in cash. >>
No, really, they couldn't. There isn't a reputable industry out there which requires the use of cash.
It's really not debatable that dealers - or anyone who sells something - should accept credit cards. >>
Obviously, you are injecting YOUR view and preferences on to this world. It's THEIR call to make. It's not up for vote. Should attorneys, doctors, accountants, nannies, house cleaners, dog walkers, baby sitters whom all sell a "reputable" service also accept credit cards? According to you, it's really not debatable. Many of these dealers don't own store fronts and many of them sell irregularly. They shouldn't have to go out of their comfort zone to appease YOU or anyone else.
I've seen dealers be belligerent to customers, including kids. We probably all have. I've seen many of them not even acknowledge customers when it's obvious a sale might be in the immediate offing. I've seen them put their greasy in-the-middle of eating a hamburger hands on items without even bothering to wipe with a napkin. And the fact that they won't accept electronic payments is somehow the biggest issue that most people want to opine on? Eat the nominal ATM fee and pay with cash if that's what their terms of sale and if you want the item that badly. It REALLY is that simple. >>
You lost me at 'attorneys'.
I would say that if you setup at a show, you should try to figure out how to take credit card payments (even if only through Paypal) if you truly want to sell.
In terms of buying cards as a "dealer", I would expect payment consistent with what I was trying to sell. If it was a couple hundred bucks, I'd probably expect cash but if they didn't have it I would probably consider Paypal. If it was a 1956 Topps graded set, I think I would understand a company check or a Paypal payment and would factor any fees into the pricing if necessary.
I honestly hadn't really thought about Paypal gift as the preferred way at a show, but I guess if I was walking away with the card then I would probably be ok with that. I probably would NOT pay the same price, though, I'd expect the fee savings to pass at least partially over to me if not completely. Only exception I might make is if it was something that had a history of forgery, like Jordan RCs or that sort of thing - if I wasn't 100% sure I wouldn't but it and I definitely would not pay gift for it.
Just my perspective, but at our local shows I'd say maybe 50% of the "dealers" were legitimate, the other half are just other collectors who paid for a table. Big difference.
<< <i>
<< <i>That's ok. I made my point. I'll let you do your own homework. I'm sure if you look hard enough for the right website with the right poll you will come back and tell us those 200 million folks just use them for wall decorations or paperweights.
And philosophical advice from a Brad Pitt movie? Really? What, no applicable Star Wars quotes?
No, you thought you made your point, but since you're stuck in 1987 you didn't bother to utilize this revolutionary new tool called "Google" to find out that land line use is right up there with cash use and Beckett price guide use.
That "philosophical advice" from the Brad Pitt movie completely changed the course of Major League Baseball. You're the old scout. The rest of us are Billy Beane. Not that you have any idea what I just said. >>
Wow. Snarky, presumptuous AND condescending...almost precisely the response I expected. Stay classy!
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>One of the primary reason I think dealers should take plastic is to capture the money that collectors spend that they don't actually have. >>
Bingo, we are a credit driven nation and merchants that take cards get extra volume from buyers that don't have cash.
<< <i>Obviously, you are injecting YOUR view and preferences on to this world. It's THEIR call to make. It's not up for vote. Should attorneys, doctors, accountants, nannies, house cleaners, dog walkers, baby sitters whom all sell a "reputable" service also accept credit cards? According to you, it's really not debatable. Many of these dealers don't own store fronts and many of them sell irregularly. They shouldn't have to go out of their comfort zone to appease YOU or anyone else. >>
Yes, they all should, with the exception of a high school kid making a few bucks on the side babysitting for a neighbor. A grown man setting up at an event at which he has thousands of dollars of merchandise for sale absolutely should accept credit and debit cards in the year 2014. You're right, according to me it's really not debatable.
<< <i>Eat the nominal ATM fee and pay with cash if that's what their terms of sale and if you want the item that badly. It REALLY is that simple. >>
Exactly 1000% the opposite of what should be taught to any aspiring entrepreneur, no matter how small-time they are. "Force the customer to adapt to your selfish desires. Don't give in. Make the customer go out of their way if they really want your item." Pure genius. I'm shocked that Steve Jobs didn't think of this first.
<< <i>
Wow. Snarky, presumptuous AND condescending...almost precisely the response I expected. Stay classy!
You were dishing it out yourself. It only becomes "condescending" when you realize that you can't keep up.
<< <i>What in the world are you even talking about??? I would hardly describe most of these dealers as "aspiring entrepreneurs". Virtually EVERY business is "selfish" and in some way shape or form "FORCES" customers to adapt to their desires. Your vaunted Steve Jobs is a classic example of that selfish desire taken to extremes. We could literally go on and on about examples where Apple does things NOT for customers' benefit or convenience (even when they could EASILY do so).
The only thing you've made clear is that you feel that sellers should have to "adapt to YOUR selfish desires". Hypocritical much??? It's a free country, in case that wasn't clear to you. They can run their businesses however they want. It's not for YOU or anyone else to dictate the terms of their business. If you believe that it is THAT much of an erroneous policy on their parts, then they'll suffer the consequences. But either way, that is THEIR choice to make. >>
Apple at least has the basic concept down: if people want to give you money, don't make it difficult for them.
Having the option to use a credit card or debit card isn't a selfish desire. It's a paradigm change that some of you are having difficulty keeping up with. It's not me that expects to be able to use virtual money, it's the entire world. With the exception, apparently, of some grizzled old baseball card guys.
As for feeling that sellers should have to adapt to the customers' desires, welcome to the first day of Intro to Business. How can we make this the best experience possible for the customer? How can we ensure that customers come back? I missed the lecture when they taught us to ignore global trends and just do what worked 20 years ago because that's how we like to do it.
<< <i>Apple does make it difficult. They choose either one of two main options to distribute their goods. Their online site or their stores. You can order them through other avenues but you can't go to Best Buy or Staples or most any other retailer (if any) to buy their products. It's certainly not for a lack of demand through those channels in either the end consumer or the distribution entities.
And your notions of "paradigm" and "global trends" is entirely laughable. You make it sound like they are competing with conglomerates from China and India. These are SPORTS CARD DEALERS. Totally apples and oranges. If they have a perfectly centered 1968 Mickey Mantle in Mint or NM-MT condition, I don't give a damn how inconvenient they make it for me, I will buy it under their terms. As common as that card may seem, I've viewed hundreds of examples and yet to find one to my liking. That's the thing, they deal in items that aren't like iphones or computers where you can buy an unlimited amount to your hearts content. There is a finite quantity. Just look at BBCE and all the rage with unopened product. It's not even like a lot of that stuff is rare but you can't just go to the dealer next door and expect to plunk down your money and buy it. On top of all that, if a dealer feels like they can get an extra 3%+ waiting for a cash buyer, why in the world should they have to eat that to accommodate your "global trends" or "customers desires". >>
Wow, if you don't have a clue how Apple works you should refrain from talking about Apple. I purchased my iPhone 5 at Best Buy. We hauled my daughter down to Wal-Mart to purchase her iPad. Seriously, look this stuff up before you put it in writing right next to your username. That's embarrassing.
You don't think the paradigm shift of using virtual money is real? Like I said earlier, stand in line behind a group of people at any retail store. It's all plastic. People don't carry cash.
So your effort to convince me to use cash is to give me an example in which I would need to carry $2,000 around a card show? Just in case I find the card that you admit that you've never found? Yeah, you sold me there.
<< <i>I perfectly understand how Apple works. >>
No you don't. You said that they only sell through their stores or online. Now you realize your mistake. Retail stores have whole sections dedicated to Apple. Now that you mention it, both of the MacBooks in our home were bought at non-Apple stores. You were so far off on Apple's sales tactics that I'm surprised that you keep bringing it up.
<< <i>Yes there undoubtedly a shift in using virtual money and I'm ALL for it. No one is suggesting that there isn't. But there's over $1 trillion dollars of currency in circulation. What's embarrassing is that you would make completely false claims like "It's all plastic. People don't carry cash." Most people I know carry cash. YOU probably do and if you don't, YOU are undoubtedly in the minority.
No one is remotely trying to convince you of ANYTHING let alone using cash. My position is that dealers have EVERY RIGHT to determine the terms of sale for their product as they see fit without the arrogance of people like you supposing for them what they should be doing. >>
Oh, I don't question their RIGHT to do it. I'm just saying that it's colossally stupid and that any business that wants to sell things in 2014 and beyond should unquestionably allow for electronic payments. The cash I carry is a handful of ones just in case I'm craving a soda or my daughter needs a couple of bucks to buy something at school. I certainly don't carry $150 to the grocery store or $2K to the local card show.
<< <i>coachnip13,
You make a lot of maligning assertions based entirely on YOUR subjective viewpoint that you continue to calibrate around as if it is the ONLY viewpoint in existence. That may be fine in your own narcissistic world but there are people outside of your own little mind who actually like to think for themselves and their thoughts might be very inconsistent with your view on things. That’s life! You seem hell bent on being one of those radicals on the left or right who think the only way to do things is YOUR way. Get a clue!
I'm sure dealers have a wide range of their own reasons why they only want to accept cash. It may not always be because they are "stubborn" or "stupid" or evading taxes. And you seem to think that if they don't sell to you or some other credit card waving collector with an overbearing sense of entitlement, that the card will stay in their inventory forever. Guess what, if it's remotely a desired item, IT WILL SELL FOR CASH sooner or later WITHOUT eating an extra 3%+. >>
Let's put it this way: no one needs to take the advice of a guy who doesn't know that Apple products are sold in non-Apple locations and who thinks that the customer is the one who is supposed to cater to the business. If I didn't see the anger in your posts, I would swear that someone made an account just to screw with me. That's how off-the-wall your position is.
Coachnip is exactly right - a good business makes it as easy as possible for the prospective customer to leave their money with them. If that means eating 3% for the debit/credit fee, so be it. I'd much rather eat 3% and sell my product for a lower margin than see the customer turned away by my archaic business model and make no profit at all.
As for cash, I don't carry it. It's bulky and inconvenient. If I can make my purchase by swiping and leaving, then I'm in. Cash slows the buying process to a crawl - for some comedy relief try watching one mouth breather struggling to count out how much money they need to pay while the mouth breather on the other side of the counter struggles to figure out how much change to grab. Cash is also filthy - I prefer not to have someone else's unwashed, fresh-from-the-bathroom hands giving me grubby money to put in my wallet and get their filth on my hands. If it's cash-only I go somewhere that will accommodate my buying preferences.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>There is no anger whatsoever on my part. If you know me at all, you'd know that is just my writing style, often times even in the most benign topics being discussed. I'm just utterly surprised that certain people (e.g YOU) want to decide for others how they should run their business. If it's such a mistake for them not to accept credit cards as you suggest, it should be THEM that suffers the consequences. That should make you happy since you seem so hell bent on thinking that you're unquestionably right on the matter. Yet, you litter this thread with YOUR anger about dealer practices that only should affect you in it's inconvenience toward YOU. And God knows, we certainly can't have that. It would be beyond unthinkable to inconvenience Coachnip13 in the slightest while he's in the process of collecting cards. Get over yourself! >>
You're so flustered that you inevitably make this about me while not being able to stay on topic.
I am unquestionably right on the matter. That's what makes this discussion so sad. You're actually fighting against a truth of the times that we live in. This isn't an opinion piece.
<< <i>But where people want to go off on vitriolic rants about how others should behave, just to accommodate the way they want to be treated and dealt with, that's an entirely different matter. >>
So when you go into a restaurant, are you perfectly okay if the server brings your food and never again comes back until it's time to get paid? Or do you expect the restaurant to make sure your needs are met, since you are the one handing over your money? What if the hostess told you to go back into the kitchen when you are ready to cook your meal? Would you walk out? Or would you accept the way the restaurant does things just because that's how they want to do it? You unquestionably have an expectation of how you want to be treated as a customer. To say otherwise is just flat out lying.
For the life of me, I have never heard the business philosophy of making the customer change in order to avoid inconveniencing the business. And this guy has repeated it like four times.
<< <i>As for the 3%, when a dealer is sitting on a desired item, he SHOULD maximize the profit while he has it because once again, there's only so much good product available and it's not like they can call up their wholesaler and reorder a bunch of perfectly centered vintage Mantles. >>
i have no problem with wanting to maximize profit, but sticking to your guns over 3% is backwards. At some point the dealer laid out money for his various inventory items. How long that inventory sits there depends on the dealer's willingness to adapt to the customer's buying preference. If I'm a dealer sitting on a minty-fresh '68 Mantle that I've had for a while, I want to eventually get something out of it so that I can purchase more inventory that might turn more quickly and perhaps get me the profit margin I desire. I might even have to sell it for what I've got into or take a small loss so that I have the liquidity to move a different direction. Not everyone can afford to be Levi Bleem and sit on a mountain of inventory waiting for the perfect buyer to happen along. I for one wouldn't want to sit on that much dead inventory just because I want to do business MY way.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>And so goes "unquestionably" the most arrogant statement I've ever read on these boards.
As for being flustered, you seem to be the one flustered by simple dealer terms because they won't cater to your every whim. Oh well, get use to it. I'm sure there are plenty of things in life that will ultimately disappoint far beyond card dealers refusing to accept cash. >>
Oh, you think you're right too. You just don't have the guts to say it as bluntly as I did.
Yes, I get frustrated if a business makes the transaction difficult for me. I am not ashamed of that. As someone with a modicum of common sense, I see that the most successful businesses are the ones that put the customer first. I walk into Chick-Fil-A, six different people greet me and can't wait to take my order. I walk into McDonald's, some pissed off kid finally puts his phone down to take my order. Where do you think I would rather take my business?
<< <i>
Once again, I'm not sure why you are having such a difficult time grasping the few simple concepts I've stated. Card dealing is NOT like a regular business. Concerning restaurants, they are in COMPETITION with PLENTY of other restaurants for patrons to their establishment. A dealer with a particularly desired items IS NOT in competition. Such a simple thing like a 1968 Mantle in 8 or 9 and years of searching for one to my liking and NEVER considering cost and yet I STILL don't have one. When a dealer has one that I want, it's something OTHERS will want. And there won't be virtually any other dealer offering it (and almost surely NONE). Meaning, there is NO COMPETITION in MANY collectibles transactions. >>
LOL, I think it's clear who isn't grasping the concepts.
You keep bringing up this MINT 1968 Mantle. Then you say that you've never found one. Therefore, dealers must be selling things that aren't so rare after all. Instead of focusing on this one example that has never happened, why not face reality and admit that a lot of the same things are being sold around the show.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>Try using your credit card at Chick-Fil-A on Sunday. >>
I hear cash is a problem on that day, too.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
And if you're that worried about filth, you can't leave the house. First off, a dog has pissed on every public surface lower than 3 feet and no one cleaned it. Restaurants don't sterilize the silverware and it frequently appears to be a token cleaning if you peek behind the curtain. You've almost certainly shaken hands with someone who did multiple businesses within a 5 min period before that. If not, you got it all that time you touched the remote at a hotel. The chair you're in right now has almost certainly been farted on by someone other than yourself. There's probably a million more, but handling cash isn't the end of the world.
Edit: just paid cash for tacos. Got the wrong change and held up the line. Smart a-- karma I guess.
<< <i>coachnip13,
You make a lot of maligning assertions based entirely on YOUR subjective viewpoint that you continue to calibrate around as if it is the ONLY viewpoint in existence. That may be fine in your own narcissistic world but there are people outside of your own little mind who actually like to think for themselves and their thoughts might be very inconsistent with your view on things. That’s life! You seem hell bent on being one of those radicals on the left or right who think the only way to do things is YOUR way. Get a clue!
I'm sure dealers have a wide range of their own reasons why they only want to accept cash. It may not always be because they are "stubborn" or "stupid" or evading taxes. And you seem to think that if they don't sell to you or some other credit card waving collector with an overbearing sense of entitlement, that the card will stay in their inventory forever. Guess what, if it's remotely a desired item, IT WILL SELL FOR CASH sooner or later WITHOUT eating an extra 3%+. >>
+50. But give up trying to get it to sink in...
No one here is denying that card use is a reality but it appears our friend CN13 will not accept anything less than full agreement with his position that anyone not accepting them is somehow wrong, a dinosaur, outdated, and/or doomed to fail... and anyone interjecting the fact that billions of dollars in cash circulate daily is met with insult, ridicule, and condescension, and treated as if somehow inferior.
Am I the only one who thinks that perhaps sometime in the past he got turned down on a purchase because the seller didn't accept cards? That would explain a lot of the hate. Even if true it would never be admitted though.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>+50. But give up trying to get it to sink in...
No one here is denying that card use is a reality but it appears our friend CN13 will not accept anything less than full agreement with his position that anyone not accepting them is somehow wrong, a dinosaur, outdated, and/or doomed to fail... and anyone interjecting the fact that billions of dollars in cash circulate daily is met with insult, ridicule, and condescension, and treated as if somehow inferior.
Am I the only one who thinks that perhaps sometime in the past he got turned down on a purchase because the seller didn't accept cards? That would explain a lot of the hate. Even if true it would never be admitted though. >>
You're giving a +50 to a guy who didn't know that Apple sells in other retail stores besides its own. Not exactly the cutting edge knowledge base that is required to discuss this topic. Maybe you two should get together and head over to the malt shop and listen to The Green Hornet and talk about that elusive 1968 Mantle that has him carrying thousands of dollars in cash to a card show.
Do you know why billions of dollars in cash circulate daily? Because people who sell things accept both. Shocking, I know.
Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
<< <i>So now I can't keep up with the guy who insists that customers should bend toward the seller's needs and not the other way around? And who claims that buyers should carry around two grand in $100 bills just in case someone is selling a card that this guy has never seen? You can keep up with insults, as it shows your character, but the best retort I can possibly come up with is to re-post the nonsense that you have put in writing. It speaks for itself. >>
Pot...Kettle... (I know that post wasn't for me but couldn't resist.)
And I guess I missed the part where anyone's saying that "customers should bend towards the seller's needs". For the umpteenth time, what they're saying is that it is the SELLER'S RIGHT TO DO BUSINESS HOW HE PLEASES and neither you, I, nor anyone else can dictate otherwise. Are you so dense that you can't get that, even after it's been stated here in print multiple times?
You can argue they're losing potential sales, you can argue that all the cool kids are using cards now and cash is so yesterday, you can hold your breath until everyone agrees with your views, yada freaking yada. But it doesn't mean that by default that your almighty opinion is anything more than just that...your opinion. Hey, if you're right then this huge problem (huge in your mind at least) will remedy itself one way or another.
The more I read your ranting and whining the more I'm convinced that someone, somewhere, wouldn't sell you something because they wouldn't take your card and/or you didn't have the cash, and you've had a big chip on your shoulder about it ever since, just like a kid who couldn't get the toy he wanted.
Oh, and as to the "malt shop/green hornet" crack, very original by the way... FYI I just turned 50. (Of course that's probably ancient to someone with the debating skill-and apparent maturity level-of a 13 year old.)
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Boobs.
Unless the dealer is a woman.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
<< <i>Jesus. I just caught up to this thread. A lot of hate slinging. It's just cardboard, people. >>
I gave up reading it because it turned so stupid.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>
<< <i>Jesus. I just caught up to this thread. A lot of hate slinging. It's just cardboard, people. >>
I gave up reading it because it turned so stupid. >>
Can I get those ten minutes back? I want a time refund
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Oh and Crisss...sorry to hear about your high school experience. Best time of my life. Top 3.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>Jesus. I just caught up to this thread. A lot of hate slinging. It's just cardboard, people. >>
I gave up reading it because it turned so stupid. >>
Matt...reading is FUN-damental!
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>
<< <i>
Side note... two thirds of all homes in the US still have landline phones...not the best analogy. >>
Cool, now break down usage. Thanks in advance. >>
I actually have two phone lines in the house. Never use them. Lol.