[q}..and not to be provocative here, but I've heard the "he lost my $$$$ amount sale" thing a million times on various threads and from BTOs at shows, and I'm not saying that it's BS, but I'm saying that my experience is that people who make such statements are usually bigger talkers than buyers. Just saying. >>
All I can speak for is myself. When I am at a show and and looking for cards to buy, I expect the dealer/person to provide me with the time of day. If not, then I will take my business elsewhere. Just my 2 cents.
<< <i>Any good businessman knows that getting anyone's business is THAT awesome! I don't care if you're selling watermelons out of the back of your pickup or condo's in South Beach. Treat every customer as if they are the only customer you have and you will be sure to succeed. >>
With regards to accepting digital payments, I can say with 100% certainty that buyers spend more money at merchant locations that take cards. I'm in the industry and have all the stats to prove that sellers that are cash only leave a significant amount of money on the table. Sure you pay 2.75% but you get 25% more on your average transaction.
I believe it's called customer service. I simply won't ever go back to that dealers table no matter what he has on it. Like I wrote in the post before if a dealer is personable, willing to deal a little, talk some baseball maybe or at least act like my business is wanted then I usually make it a point to go back to those dealers or look for them at shows. So what I took from the post of the dealer in coins was that the show wasn't a two way street at all that I should feel lucky that the guy is selling to me? If I as a customer offer various ways to pay for an item due to it being high dollar, at a show, late in the day, low on cash and no ATM I can get the needed amount from I'm just SOL? One of my suggestions was PayPal gift. What dealer doesn't sell on the Internet these days??? Just face it most sellers at shows just lack people skills.
I'll that I made a payment at the show using PayPal gift, and Memory Lane's table turned a beautiful Gibson rookie over in the case for me after chatting awhile about the industry and what I did for a living. I offered to put the card on hold with a small deposit and would come back tommorow cause once again I was low on cash. They simply pulled it out and said it was mine just come grab it before the shows over. Needless to say I came back. Great guys great service!
<< <i>As a coin dealer who's looking at selling some personal cards I find these threads enlightening.
Interesting that the dealer bashing threads here aren't much different than those on the coins side.
So, what I'm taking away from this thread so far is... 1)If the card's not priced well below low Beckett the guy's trying to hose you, 2)You want cash discount level prices...but can't be bothered to actually carry some cash or go a block away to an ATM to get some, 3)The dealer should grovel at your feet because getting your business is THAT awesome, and for that massive sale...which is seldom massive, and given #1 above, not that profitable, he should eat any and all fees with a smile.
...and this all is assuming you even buy anything, and don't just waste half an hour picking through, sliming and dinging up his inventory.
Good to know.
..and not to be provocative here, but I've heard the "he lost my $$$$ amount sale" thing a million times on various threads and from BTOs at shows, and I'm not saying that it's BS, but I'm saying that my experience is that people who make such statements are usually bigger talkers than buyers. Just saying. >>
Wow, I don't know if I've ever seen someone completely twist a thread as badly as you just did.
1. People were complaining about the guys who go 30% over Beckett and won't budge, not the guys who are fair. 2. Join us here in the future. The "cash discount" thing is yesterday's news. Get a Square and plug it into your phone. Or maybe that's the problem. Maybe the first step would be to get a phone. This is becoming more of a cashless society every day. YOU want MY money. That being the case, get with the times. 3. I doubt that you know who Marcus Lemonis is, but one of his staples is that the customer is greeted immediately. If the tired old card guy wants to sit back against the wall and ignore people, then he will continue to not sell stuff.
How do you know that those people are bigger talkers than buyers? Do you identify them and then follow them to other tables to see if they actually buy something? Because I'll join the list of millions and tell you that if a seller - in any capacity, not just cards - doesn't act like they want to sell anything, I'm out.
<< <i>With regards to accepting digital payments, I can say with 100% certainty that buyers spend more money at merchant locations that take cards. I'm in the industry and have all the stats to prove that sellers that are cash only leave a significant amount of money on the table. Sure you pay 2.75% but you get 25% more on your average transaction. >>
Exactly. It's considered a courtesy to the customer in this day and age of business practice. The measly percentage you lose of the top from the fees are easily overcome by the volume increase because of the convenience and increase in customers that you open yourself up to
I would love to take payments using square. Unfortunately, the show I set up at has horrible wi-fi, spotty at best, and I don't have a huge amount of data I can use on my phone.
I try my best to be accommodating to customers and price things competitive with ebay as best as I can. I do find it interesting, though, that at the show I set up at when I have advertised PayPal accepted in the past, this includes credit cards, I've never had one person ask if they can pay that way. I think it's assumed, and I can only speak of this show, that you bring money. Not sure how other shows are though.
I would also state, regarding customer service, I always greet everyone who comes to my table with, "Hi, my name is Chris. Let me know if there's anything you're interested in and I'm happy to work with you on price." Just a simple hello or acknowledgement goes a long way. As a buyer, I will never deal with someone who doesn't greet me. Even if they have something spectacular that I want. As a dealer, I'm out to earn your money. I will even stop the middle of a conversation with someone by saying can you hold on one second, to greet a person walking up to my table. I've found that people always understand because they want to be greeted to. If someone then asks me a question that takes a long solution, I will typically say, "If you'll give me one second to finish my conversation with this gentleman I'll be right with you." I've never had anyone walk away because of that.
Good CS goes a longgggg way. Also, when you work the same show long enough, knowing who likes what and having that available for them makes them feel like you know them and you've taken time to care. I have a notebook I keep with first names and descriptions of regulars so I know when rebuilding inventory what to look for.
I was wondering if some dealers could be worried about a possible chargeback from the credit card company if they used Square or Paypal non gift. If so it would add more risk of being ripped off and most can't afford to eat the loss since they are working on low margins. I'm not even sure if you could persue a chargeback with a show purchase.
<< <i>I was wondering if some dealers could be worried about a possible chargeback from the credit card company if they used Square or Paypal non gift. If so it would add more risk of being ripped off and most can't afford to eat the loss since they are working on low margins. I'm not even sure if you could persue a chargeback with a show purchase. >>
I once accepted credit cards at shows but atleast once, sometimes three times per year, people would try a chargeback. Since I called in for a authorization number and wrote proper info on the credit card slip from the customer's driver's license at the time of sale I never lost money but it was a hassle to foward the info to the credit card company and I always wondered if this was the time I would get screwed.
After I quit accepting credits cards I found people would ask if I took CC and after I said no they pulled cash out of their wallet. On bigger ticket cards I have sold the card on terms for people in leiu of the CC.
I have accepted Paypal gift at shows from people I know. Square and Paypal credit card processing may have safeguards I am not aware of. Paypal has asked me during phone conversations about accepting credit cards and they nor any user has been able to answer the question of what happens if a person claims unauthorized use of the credit card. Everyone I have asked that of has responded "I don't know".
Maybe I have been unlucky in the past with chargebacks, unauthorized use of cards, etc. I may signup for Square but not advertize it and use it selectively if I know the customer or if the sale will not happen any other way.
I just now went back and re-read my post and thought, wow, that came off reading a lot more harsh than it was intended to be. My apologies.
Let me be clear about a few things. I am not a card dealer, never have been, but have done cards on a personal level apart from our B/M coin & currency business, where I always greet everyone who comes in the door or up to our table... and I agree with those who don't do business with people who don't acknowledge them. That's not what I was arguing against. My frustration comes from the "my way or the highway" mindset exhibited by some "customers" who go in assuming that others should always think and act like them. Yes, there are jerk dealers out there, we all know that, and you are right in not dealing with them-but we also know it goes both ways. Our customers are always treated well, acknowledged and dealt with in a fair manner. Jerks however, are not considered customers-and they get treated commensurate with their attitude. Respect goes both ways. If a dealer ignores you, don't deal with him. If a customer acts like an entitled child, I'll do likewise.
As to the rest of it-we have a CC machine and obviously accept cards at the store, shows etc ...but there are smaller guys who either don't have a store, don't do enough volume to warrant setting up an account, or simply prefer cash and checks at shows. That doesn't by default make them evil, lazy or tax cheats and I for one will gladly do business with them. If you negotiate the last nickel out of a deal and then whip out the credit card and expect the guy on the other side of the table to eat another 3% on top of it all...well, you may or may not get the deal done, but either way you will be remembered next time you want to do a deal.
It was mentioned earlier that you make an average of 25% more on CC sales...obviously you will get more sales VOLUME by expanding the types of payments you accept but don't conflate volume with profit. You will not get 25% more profit on the items sold, especially not in the card (or coin/currency/flea market) business, where it has already been clearly stated by others that they want the best price regardless of payment type.
Increased volume is always a good thing but there are still people out there who prefer the cash only or cash/check/ MO route. It doesn't make them wrong or right; it just means that's how they choose to do business. I choose to accept virtually all payment types; that's what's right for me, but I won't presume to tell others how to operate their business.
All that said-I stand by my statement that if you want cash prices then you should be prepared to make a cash purchase, otherwise you're wasting both your time and that of the seller.
And yes, it's the 21st century, and people have debit and credit cards, yada yada. But-news flash...our society still uses cash, a lot more of it than some here seem to think, and it will be here for the foreseeable future, certainly the lifetimes of everyone reading this. Cash isn't a dirty word (...and you should all be concerned if we ever do stop using it. But I digress).
Peace
Edit to add...the concern about chargebacks is a valid one. It happens a lot on eBay but has also happened at shows. Imagine being at a show and someone coming to you, doing a large deal, and then leaving the show. You revel in the good sale, only to find out a couple days later that it was a freshly stolen card. Boom-chargeback, you're out the mdse. and the money. I know someone who got hit that way at a major show. These were coin guys, but it could as easily occur at a card show or elsewhere (and has). Larger dealers can afford the occasional loss, but a large enough mistake could easily bankrupt a smaller dealer, and that's why some of them don't do credit cards (or checks). Just saying.
Wow! Are you sure you are the same person that made the previous post on this thread? Please tell me you had a couple of nips or puffs before you wrote the first thread!
I have never seen such a attitude change by one person in a thread before! I could not disagree with you more in the first, and I completely agree with you in the 2nd.
As a small buyer & seller, I am always searching for a better way to sell than on Ebay using Paypal because of the fear of not just chargebacks, but the horror stories I hear about returns having bricks in them & Paypal siding with the scammer. Just so many of those types of stories and when I speak to Paypal reps they never have a good answer for my concerns.
Wow! Are you sure you are the same person that made the previous post on this thread? Please tell me you had a couple of nips or puffs before you wrote the first thread!
I have never seen such a attitude change by one person in a thread before! I could not disagree with you more in the first, and I completely agree with you in the 2nd. >>
With regards to chargebacks, the cardholder has to prove that they returned the product to the seller. You can't just initiate a chargeback and get away with free product, there is a process involved and it leans to the side of the merchant.
I use my card for almost every purchase and have initiated 3 chargebacks over the years, out of thousands of transactions. I know what you need to do to have a reasonable chance of winning a chargeback and I am only 1 for 3. The two case I lost the merchant was a total jerk and we received no product for money spent....and I still lost.
And yes, it's the 21st century, and people have debit and credit cards, yada yada. But-news flash...our society still uses cash, a lot more of it than some here seem to think, and it will be here for the foreseeable future, certainly the lifetimes of everyone reading this.
Society may use cash, but if the guy who wants to make the $1,000 purchase doesn't, then he will find a dealer who takes something other than cash. That's the point that seems to be missed here. It's the dealer who loses, not the guy who only uses plastic.
<< <i>With regards to chargebacks, the cardholder has to prove that they returned the product to the seller. You can't just initiate a chargeback and get away with free product, there is a process involved and it leans to the side of the merchant.
I use my card for almost every purchase and have initiated 3 chargebacks over the years, out of thousands of transactions. I know what you need to do to have a reasonable chance of winning a chargeback and I am only 1 for 3. The two case I lost the merchant was a total jerk and we received no product for money spent....and I still lost. >>
I'm a younger guy (possibly the youngest on this forum) and my pet peeve is being overlooked by dealers and being talked down to by dealers. Show every customer equal respect because you never know who is trying to buy what.
Wow! Are you sure you are the same person that made the previous post on this thread? Please tell me you had a couple of nips or puffs before you wrote the first thread!
I have never seen such a attitude change by one person in a thread before! I could not disagree with you more in the first, and I completely agree with you in the 2nd.
As a small buyer & seller, I am always searching for a better way to sell than on Ebay using Paypal because of the fear of not just chargebacks, but the horror stories I hear about returns having bricks in them & Paypal siding with the scammer. Just so many of those types of stories and when I speak to Paypal reps they never have a good answer for my concerns. >>
And no... I'm not schizoid! I promise...and so do I.
Chalk it up to yesterday being one of those days. And believe me, it was. Reading this thread was perfectly timed after dealing with a problem customer after some other fun happenings earlier. I gotta learn to stop posting when I am royally P.O.'d. Threads expressing antipathy towards dealers tend to push my buttons anyway, so it was a perfect storm.
Actually if you look critically at both posts, they're saying much the same thing for the most part, except the first one was devoid of tact. Sorry about that.
As to your concerns re: eBay/Paypal... some of those stories are true, unfortunately. eBay says they're policing it better, but....not so much, certainly not as much as claimed at least.
As a seller the odds of your deal going through successfully are still pretty good but the reality is that eBay is quickly becoming a junkyard and playground for scammers (on both sides of the deal... lots of Asian made fakes on eBay on the coin end, for instance, and they have significantly crippled a previously successful avenue to get dodgy listings pulled). Frankly I don't know how some card guys do it, or why, especially on low dollar deals. It's pretty much been proven that the lower the amount, the higher chance of a problem buyer. I know this method doesn't necessarily work for everyone but given the hassle of imaging, describing, listing, packing and shipping something, not to mention eBay and PP fees, and the value of your time...unless the item or lot is expected to bring at least $20-$30 or more, we usually don't list it. (Now it might not actually bring that much, but that's a different discussion!)
<< <i>And yes, it's the 21st century, and people have debit and credit cards, yada yada. But-news flash...our society still uses cash, a lot more of it than some here seem to think, and it will be here for the foreseeable future, certainly the lifetimes of everyone reading this.
Society may use cash, but if the guy who wants to make the $1,000 purchase doesn't, then he will find a dealer who takes something other than cash. That's the point that seems to be missed here. It's the dealer who loses, not the guy who only uses plastic. >>
Nor the guy who only uses Lithuanian money, shiny rocks, or bartering quail eggs. Should sellers be required to take those too?
The point isn't being missed; it's actually being acknowledged... but that doesn't mean he's obligated to conform to your payment model just because you use it. THAT is the real point being missed here.
Taking your business elsewhere is your prerogative, just as taking cash only is that of the seller. Technically he actually loses nothing since all you wanted to use was a card in the first place and he doesn't accept them. It could be argued that he loses potential sales because he doesn't accept cards, but it could be as easily argued that you are missing on good deals because you refuse to use cash. Yes?
Nor the guy who only uses Lithuanian money, shiny rocks, or bartering quail eggs. Should sellers be required to take those too?
Horrible analogies. Quit acting as though it's odd that people use plastic. Stand in line at a store and the three people in front of you will all use debit cards for their chips and soda. It's the way things are.
The point isn't being missed; it's actually being acknowledged... but that doesn't mean he's obligated to conform to your payment model just because you use it. THAT is the real point being missed here.
Oh, I don't care if he conforms or not. He is the one who brought his stuff there with the intent on selling it. If he doesn't want to sell it because he is scared of technology and Big Brother, then more power to him. He can haul it all back to the car on Sunday afternoon.
Taking your business elsewhere is your prerogative, just as taking cash only is that of the seller. Technically he actually loses nothing since all you wanted to use was a card in the first place and he doesn't accept them. It could be argued that he loses potential sales because he doesn't accept cards, but it could be as easily argued that you are missing on good deals because you refuse to use cash. Yes?
Again, point is being missed. People don't "refuse" to use cash any more than we "refuse" to use land line phones. It's just the way things are. My money exists on a piece of plastic because I can pay for virtually everything with it. There is no need for cash. Same with checks. Who writes checks anymore? Like Brad Pitt said in Moneyball: "Adapt or die". People who take cash only are dinosaurs. I can go get those good deals from the hundred other dealers who can plug a swiper into a phone.
<< <i>Again, point is being missed. People don't "refuse" to use cash any more than we "refuse" to use land line phones. It's just the way things are. My money exists on a piece of plastic because I can pay for virtually everything with it. There is no need for cash. Same with checks. Who writes checks anymore? Like Brad Pitt said in Moneyball: "Adapt or die". People who take cash only are dinosaurs. I can go get those good deals from the hundred other dealers who can plug a swiper into a phone. >>
Well, if that's true then why not go get those good deals from the hundred other dealers rather than complain about those who don't think exactly like you do?
Side note... two thirds of all homes in the US still have landline phones...not the best analogy.
I'm not really bothered by guys who price at Beckett (or some percentage of it). But if you have entire binders that will be priced that way, just make a sign that says so.
There is something I find funny about these threads where people have strong opinions on what's acceptable for sellers and buyers. If you buy something from the people who stick up for dealers who overgrade, lack communication or whatever, the defenders do none of those things when selling, but instead provide top notch service. I have bought more of my collection on this board than anywhere else, and it's mostly the same great experience.
On the flip side I have high expectations for what shop owners "should" do and provide. But I carry cash everywhere to let vendors pick how they want to be paid, consider their perspective and put up with anything small as long as they are honest and nice about it.
To bigdcards: "you are right" - cpamike "That is correct" -grote15
Side note... two thirds of all homes in the US still have landline phones...not the best analogy. >>
Cool, now break down usage. Thanks in advance. >>
That's ok. I made my point. I'll let you do your own homework. I'm sure if you look hard enough for the right website with the right poll you will come back and tell us those 200 million folks just use them for wall decorations or paperweights.
And philosophical advice from a Brad Pitt movie? Really? What, no applicable Star Wars quotes?
I haven't habitually carried cash for a long, long time. I get that I could walk a quarter mile to a cash machine (and eat a $4 surcharge), but I would much rather use my PayPal account or credit/debit card to make any purchase. Yes, on a small purchase the +/- 3% fee the merchant has to eat isn't worth it, but on a larger purchase I frankly would expect it.
Now, as a buyer I believe it is my responsibility to find out beforehand what the merchant's payment options are. If he doesn't take credit/debit, will he do PayPal gift? I'd be shocked if anyone selling cards doesn't have a PP account, unless it's at a small mall or VFW show. After finding out if credit/debit is possible, I would then inform the seller that it is my intent to use said credit/debit card. That way when the inevitable negotiation takes place the seller can take the 3% into account when arriving at a final price.
<< <i>That's ok. I made my point. I'll let you do your own homework. I'm sure if you look hard enough for the right website with the right poll you will come back and tell us those 200 million folks just use them for wall decorations or paperweights.
And philosophical advice from a Brad Pitt movie? Really? What, no applicable Star Wars quotes? >>
No, you thought you made your point, but since you're stuck in 1987 you didn't bother to utilize this revolutionary new tool called "Google" to find out that land line use is right up there with cash use and Beckett price guide use.
That "philosophical advice" from the Brad Pitt movie completely changed the course of Major League Baseball. You're the old scout. The rest of us are Billy Beane. Not that you have any idea what I just said.
<< <i>PAYPAL has to be used as a gift. If not problems can occur. Someone on EBAY sold something off line and buyer used GIFT and it all went bad. >>
i completely disagree with this - GIFT is the worst way to use Paypal
it doesn't protect either party in the event 1) the item never shows up, or 2) the item is damaged in transit, or 3) buyer says they never received it (use Paypal to ship)
as a buyer, i'd rather pay extra or just walk away; as a seller, i never ask for gift, i either factor the fee into my pricing or just accept that 2.9% is the cost of selling
as far as the discussion around credit cards, i probably wouldn't buy again from a dealer who only takes cash, especially for large purchases (i define as $100+)
what, are we all supposed to walk around shows with a couple thousand of dollars or more in our pockets? i can't possibly know what might be at the show that i'd be interested in.
if they only take cash, the price better be unbeatable
in the context of a face-to-face sale, I see zero problem with using PP Gift. Also, thanks for bringing up the issue of carrying around a wad of Benjamins in your wallet at a show. I meant to bring that up in my previous post - I just wouldn't be comfortable doing it.
This has been quite an interesting thread to read. I'll make sure to have fresh breath, greet you warmly and properly at the booth, ensure everything we have for sale is priced, and engage in pleasant conversation in a couple weeks at the National. In return, all I ask is please not to offer us half of our asking price as a starting point in negotiations.
The comment about walking around with stacks of Benjamins made me think about something. As dealers we continue to take a larger percentage of sales in electronic payments; how much cash are we expected to bring ourselves to buy product from collectors? I'm sure many if not all of you will be bringing items to possibly sell at the National - will you expect to be paid in cash? I know I would. Can we as dealers pay you by credit card? Oh, you don't accept credit cards. What about PayPal? I guess that would work, though it would depend on how much we actually keep in our account. Company check? I'm sure nobody here will question whether or not our check is good, but then again, it's not like you can spend our check in the room. At the National, the only thing good as a collector about taking a check from a dealer is you're guaranteed to go home with some money.
BBCE will accept credit cards, PayPal, and cash at the National. As a buyer, we will be paying cash. Hopefully, we won't run out of it!
<< <i>This has been quite an interesting thread to read. I'll make sure to have fresh breath, greet you warmly and properly at the booth, ensure everything we have for sale is priced, and engage in pleasant conversation in a couple weeks at the National. In return, all I ask is please not to offer us half of our asking price as a starting point in negotiations.
The comment about walking around with stacks of Benjamins made me think about something. As dealers we continue to take a larger percentage of sales in electronic payments; how much cash are we expected to bring ourselves to buy product from collectors? I'm sure many if not all of you will be bringing items to possibly sell at the National - will you expect to be paid in cash? I know I would. Can we as dealers pay you by credit card? >>
Reed - you do understand the difference between buying wholesale / buying collections and selling retail?
Reed, you must make Steve a boatload of money with your acquisitions. You would have to in order to help offset the bad smell you leave every time you post online.
<< <i>Reed, you must make Steve a boatload of money with your acquisitions. You would have to in order to help offset the bad smell you leave every time you post online. >>
I'm just shocked that Steve hasn't banned him from posting completely.
I sold a few packs to Steve at the National last year, and happily accepted a company check. Lot easier than a wad of bills.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i> I offer an on-the-spot authentication service, so can allow 'pay in advances' and 'billing.' Will be clear in pricing. Part of my service is you get an opinion and COA right there, as you stand there with your item. No shipping or insurance, 2 month waits, no come back in 2 days. >>
And no market credibility.
Looking to have some custom cuts or plain custom cards built? PM me.
<< <i>In return, all I ask is please not to offer us half of our asking price as a starting point in negotiations >>
You get offered half at least?? I got offered $150 for a 1933 Sport Kings Jim Thorpe card that I am asking $500 OBO for. That would be 30% of sale price - or a 70% discount. Whichever way you slice it, it was pitiful.
<< <i>Sure...I would like every dealer on earth to accept PayPal and credit cards.......However, it's THEIR choice. >>
That's fine and dandy, but the thread asked what was MY number one turn off when it came to dealers at a show. They can choose to lose business all they want, but it's still a turn off to me, and that's what was being asked.
<< <i> I offer an on-the-spot authentication service, so can allow 'pay in advances' and 'billing.' Will be clear in pricing. Part of my service is you get an opinion and COA right there, as you stand there with your item. No shipping or insurance, 2 month waits, no come back in 2 days. >>
Comments
All I can speak for is myself. When I am at a show and and looking for cards to buy, I expect the dealer/person to provide me with the time of day. If not, then I will take my business elsewhere. Just my 2 cents.
Mark
T206 Set - 300/524
<< <i>Any good businessman knows that getting anyone's business is THAT awesome! I don't care if you're selling watermelons out of the back of your pickup or condo's in South Beach. Treat every customer as if they are the only customer you have and you will be sure to succeed. >>
Right on Matt!
I couldn't have said it better.
I went to the Houston TriStar a few years ago and most all the dealers were friendly.
I asked a few if I could take a pic with something they were proud to have in their booth:
<< <i>As a coin dealer who's looking at selling some personal cards I find these threads enlightening.
Interesting that the dealer bashing threads here aren't much different than those on the coins side.
So, what I'm taking away from this thread so far is...
1)If the card's not priced well below low Beckett the guy's trying to hose you,
2)You want cash discount level prices...but can't be bothered to actually carry some cash or go a block away to an ATM to get some,
3)The dealer should grovel at your feet because getting your business is THAT awesome, and for that massive sale...which is seldom massive, and given #1 above, not that profitable, he should eat any and all fees with a smile.
...and this all is assuming you even buy anything, and don't just waste half an hour picking through, sliming and dinging up his inventory.
Good to know.
..and not to be provocative here, but I've heard the "he lost my $$$$ amount sale" thing a million times on various threads and from BTOs at shows, and I'm not saying that it's BS, but I'm saying that my experience is that people who make such statements are usually bigger talkers than buyers. Just saying. >>
Wow, I don't know if I've ever seen someone completely twist a thread as badly as you just did.
1. People were complaining about the guys who go 30% over Beckett and won't budge, not the guys who are fair.
2. Join us here in the future. The "cash discount" thing is yesterday's news. Get a Square and plug it into your phone. Or maybe that's the problem. Maybe the first step would be to get a phone. This is becoming more of a cashless society every day. YOU want MY money. That being the case, get with the times.
3. I doubt that you know who Marcus Lemonis is, but one of his staples is that the customer is greeted immediately. If the tired old card guy wants to sit back against the wall and ignore people, then he will continue to not sell stuff.
How do you know that those people are bigger talkers than buyers? Do you identify them and then follow them to other tables to see if they actually buy something? Because I'll join the list of millions and tell you that if a seller - in any capacity, not just cards - doesn't act like they want to sell anything, I'm out.
<< <i>With regards to accepting digital payments, I can say with 100% certainty that buyers spend more money at merchant locations that take cards. I'm in the industry and have all the stats to prove that sellers that are cash only leave a significant amount of money on the table. Sure you pay 2.75% but you get 25% more on your average transaction. >>
Exactly. It's considered a courtesy to the customer in this day and age of business practice. The measly percentage you lose of the top from the fees are easily overcome by the volume increase because of the convenience and increase in customers that you open yourself up to
I try my best to be accommodating to customers and price things competitive with ebay as best as I can. I do find it interesting, though, that at the show I set up at when I have advertised PayPal accepted in the past, this includes credit cards, I've never had one person ask if they can pay that way. I think it's assumed, and I can only speak of this show, that you bring money. Not sure how other shows are though.
I would also state, regarding customer service, I always greet everyone who comes to my table with, "Hi, my name is Chris. Let me know if there's anything you're interested in and I'm happy to work with you on price." Just a simple hello or acknowledgement goes a long way. As a buyer, I will never deal with someone who doesn't greet me. Even if they have something spectacular that I want. As a dealer, I'm out to earn your money. I will even stop the middle of a conversation with someone by saying can you hold on one second, to greet a person walking up to my table. I've found that people always understand because they want to be greeted to. If someone then asks me a question that takes a long solution, I will typically say, "If you'll give me one second to finish my conversation with this gentleman I'll be right with you." I've never had anyone walk away because of that.
Good CS goes a longgggg way. Also, when you work the same show long enough, knowing who likes what and having that available for them makes them feel like you know them and you've taken time to care. I have a notebook I keep with first names and descriptions of regulars so I know when rebuilding inventory what to look for.
<< <i>I was wondering if some dealers could be worried about a possible chargeback from the credit card company if they used Square or Paypal non gift. If so it would add more risk of being ripped off and most can't afford to eat the loss since they are working on low margins. I'm not even sure if you could persue a chargeback with a show purchase. >>
I once accepted credit cards at shows but atleast once, sometimes three times per year, people would try a chargeback. Since I called in for a authorization number and wrote proper info on the credit card slip from the customer's driver's license at the time of sale I never lost money but it was a hassle to foward the info to the credit card company and I always wondered if this was the time I would get screwed.
After I quit accepting credits cards I found people would ask if I took CC and after I said no they pulled cash out of their wallet. On bigger ticket cards I have sold the card on terms for people in leiu of the CC.
I have accepted Paypal gift at shows from people I know. Square and Paypal credit card processing may have safeguards I am not aware of. Paypal has asked me during phone conversations about accepting credit cards and they nor any user has been able to answer the question of what happens if a person claims unauthorized use of the credit card. Everyone I have asked that of has responded "I don't know".
Maybe I have been unlucky in the past with chargebacks, unauthorized use of cards, etc. I may signup for Square but not advertize it and use it selectively if I know the customer or if the sale will not happen any other way.
Let me be clear about a few things.
I am not a card dealer, never have been, but have done cards on a personal level apart from our B/M coin & currency business, where I always greet everyone who comes in the door or up to our table... and I agree with those who don't do business with people who don't acknowledge them. That's not what I was arguing against. My frustration comes from the "my way or the highway" mindset exhibited by some "customers" who go in assuming that others should always think and act like them. Yes, there are jerk dealers out there, we all know that, and you are right in not dealing with them-but we also know it goes both ways. Our customers are always treated well, acknowledged and dealt with in a fair manner. Jerks however, are not considered customers-and they get treated commensurate with their attitude. Respect goes both ways. If a dealer ignores you, don't deal with him. If a customer acts like an entitled child, I'll do likewise.
As to the rest of it-we have a CC machine and obviously accept cards at the store, shows etc ...but there are smaller guys who either don't have a store, don't do enough volume to warrant setting up an account, or simply prefer cash and checks at shows. That doesn't by default make them evil, lazy or tax cheats and I for one will gladly do business with them. If you negotiate the last nickel out of a deal and then whip out the credit card and expect the guy on the other side of the table to eat another 3% on top of it all...well, you may or may not get the deal done, but either way you will be remembered next time you want to do a deal.
It was mentioned earlier that you make an average of 25% more on CC sales...obviously you will get more sales VOLUME by expanding the types of payments you accept but don't conflate volume with profit. You will not get 25% more profit on the items sold, especially not in the card (or coin/currency/flea market) business, where it has already been clearly stated by others that they want the best price regardless of payment type.
Increased volume is always a good thing but there are still people out there who prefer the cash only or cash/check/ MO route. It doesn't make them wrong or right; it just means that's how they choose to do business. I choose to accept virtually all payment types; that's what's right for me, but I won't presume to tell others how to operate their business.
All that said-I stand by my statement that if you want cash prices then you should be prepared to make a cash purchase, otherwise you're wasting both your time and that of the seller.
And yes, it's the 21st century, and people have debit and credit cards, yada yada. But-news flash...our society still uses cash, a lot more of it than some here seem to think, and it will be here for the foreseeable future, certainly the lifetimes of everyone reading this. Cash isn't a dirty word (...and you should all be concerned if we ever do stop using it. But I digress).
Peace
Edit to add...the concern about chargebacks is a valid one. It happens a lot on eBay but has also happened at shows. Imagine being at a show and someone coming to you, doing a large deal, and then leaving the show. You revel in the good sale, only to find out a couple days later that it was a freshly stolen card. Boom-chargeback, you're out the mdse. and the money. I know someone who got hit that way at a major show. These were coin guys, but it could as easily occur at a card show or elsewhere (and has). Larger dealers can afford the occasional loss, but a large enough mistake could easily bankrupt a smaller dealer, and that's why some of them don't do credit cards (or checks). Just saying.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Wow! Are you sure you are the same person that made the previous post on this thread?
Please tell me you had a couple of nips or puffs before you wrote the first thread!
I have never seen such a attitude change by one person in a thread before!
I could not disagree with you more in the first, and I completely agree with you in the 2nd.
As a small buyer & seller, I am always searching for a better way to sell than on Ebay using Paypal because of the fear of not just chargebacks, but the horror stories
I hear about returns having bricks in them & Paypal siding with the scammer. Just so many of those types of stories and when I speak to Paypal reps they never have a good answer for my concerns.
<< <i>Telephoto1,
Wow! Are you sure you are the same person that made the previous post on this thread?
Please tell me you had a couple of nips or puffs before you wrote the first thread!
I have never seen such a attitude change by one person in a thread before!
I could not disagree with you more in the first, and I completely agree with you in the 2nd. >>
+1
I use my card for almost every purchase and have initiated 3 chargebacks over the years, out of thousands of transactions. I know what you need to do to have a reasonable chance of winning a chargeback and I am only 1 for 3. The two case I lost the merchant was a total jerk and we received no product for money spent....and I still lost.
Society may use cash, but if the guy who wants to make the $1,000 purchase doesn't, then he will find a dealer who takes something other than cash. That's the point that seems to be missed here. It's the dealer who loses, not the guy who only uses plastic.
<< <i>With regards to chargebacks, the cardholder has to prove that they returned the product to the seller. You can't just initiate a chargeback and get away with free product, there is a process involved and it leans to the side of the merchant.
I use my card for almost every purchase and have initiated 3 chargebacks over the years, out of thousands of transactions. I know what you need to do to have a reasonable chance of winning a chargeback and I am only 1 for 3. The two case I lost the merchant was a total jerk and we received no product for money spent....and I still lost. >>
Also, PP Gift. C'mon.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
<< <i>Telephoto1,
Wow! Are you sure you are the same person that made the previous post on this thread?
Please tell me you had a couple of nips or puffs before you wrote the first thread!
I have never seen such a attitude change by one person in a thread before!
I could not disagree with you more in the first, and I completely agree with you in the 2nd.
As a small buyer & seller, I am always searching for a better way to sell than on Ebay using Paypal because of the fear of not just chargebacks, but the horror stories
I hear about returns having bricks in them & Paypal siding with the scammer. Just so many of those types of stories and when I speak to Paypal reps they never have a good answer for my concerns. >>
And no... I'm not schizoid! I promise...and so do I.
Chalk it up to yesterday being one of those days. And believe me, it was. Reading this thread was perfectly timed after dealing with a problem customer after some other fun happenings earlier.
I gotta learn to stop posting when I am royally P.O.'d. Threads expressing antipathy towards dealers tend to push my buttons anyway, so it was a perfect storm.
Actually if you look critically at both posts, they're saying much the same thing for the most part, except the first one was devoid of tact. Sorry about that.
As to your concerns re: eBay/Paypal... some of those stories are true, unfortunately. eBay says they're policing it better, but....not so much, certainly not as much as claimed at least.
As a seller the odds of your deal going through successfully are still pretty good but the reality is that eBay is quickly becoming a junkyard and playground for scammers (on both sides of the deal... lots of Asian made fakes on eBay on the coin end, for instance, and they have significantly crippled a previously successful avenue to get dodgy listings pulled). Frankly I don't know how some card guys do it, or why, especially on low dollar deals. It's pretty much been proven that the lower the amount, the higher chance of a problem buyer. I know this method doesn't necessarily work for everyone but given the hassle of imaging, describing, listing, packing and shipping something, not to mention eBay and PP fees, and the value of your time...unless the item or lot is expected to bring at least $20-$30 or more, we usually don't list it. (Now it might not actually bring that much, but that's a different discussion!)
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>And yes, it's the 21st century, and people have debit and credit cards, yada yada. But-news flash...our society still uses cash, a lot more of it than some here seem to think, and it will be here for the foreseeable future, certainly the lifetimes of everyone reading this.
Society may use cash, but if the guy who wants to make the $1,000 purchase doesn't, then he will find a dealer who takes something other than cash. That's the point that seems to be missed here. It's the dealer who loses, not the guy who only uses plastic. >>
Nor the guy who only uses Lithuanian money, shiny rocks, or bartering quail eggs. Should sellers be required to take those too?
The point isn't being missed; it's actually being acknowledged... but that doesn't mean he's obligated to conform to your payment model just because you use it. THAT is the real point being missed here.
Taking your business elsewhere is your prerogative, just as taking cash only is that of the seller. Technically he actually loses nothing since all you wanted to use was a card in the first place and he doesn't accept them.
It could be argued that he loses potential sales because he doesn't accept cards, but it could be as easily argued that you are missing on good deals because you refuse to use cash. Yes?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Horrible analogies. Quit acting as though it's odd that people use plastic. Stand in line at a store and the three people in front of you will all use debit cards for their chips and soda. It's the way things are.
The point isn't being missed; it's actually being acknowledged... but that doesn't mean he's obligated to conform to your payment model just because you use it. THAT is the real point being missed here.
Oh, I don't care if he conforms or not. He is the one who brought his stuff there with the intent on selling it. If he doesn't want to sell it because he is scared of technology and Big Brother, then more power to him. He can haul it all back to the car on Sunday afternoon.
Taking your business elsewhere is your prerogative, just as taking cash only is that of the seller. Technically he actually loses nothing since all you wanted to use was a card in the first place and he doesn't accept them. It could be argued that he loses potential sales because he doesn't accept cards, but it could be as easily argued that you are missing on good deals because you refuse to use cash. Yes?
Again, point is being missed. People don't "refuse" to use cash any more than we "refuse" to use land line phones. It's just the way things are. My money exists on a piece of plastic because I can pay for virtually everything with it. There is no need for cash. Same with checks. Who writes checks anymore? Like Brad Pitt said in Moneyball: "Adapt or die". People who take cash only are dinosaurs. I can go get those good deals from the hundred other dealers who can plug a swiper into a phone.
<< <i>Who writes checks anymore? >>
I write checks to those auction houses I win stuff from that don't take PayPal. That is it.
<< <i>Again, point is being missed. People don't "refuse" to use cash any more than we "refuse" to use land line phones. It's just the way things are. My money exists on a piece of plastic because I can pay for virtually everything with it. There is no need for cash. Same with checks. Who writes checks anymore? Like Brad Pitt said in Moneyball: "Adapt or die". People who take cash only are dinosaurs. I can go get those good deals from the hundred other dealers who can plug a swiper into a phone. >>
Well, if that's true then why not go get those good deals from the hundred other dealers rather than complain about those who don't think exactly like you do?
Side note... two thirds of all homes in the US still have landline phones...not the best analogy.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>
Side note... two thirds of all homes in the US still have landline phones...not the best analogy. >>
Cool, now break down usage. Thanks in advance.
On the flip side I have high expectations for what shop owners "should" do and provide. But I carry cash everywhere to let vendors pick how they want to be paid, consider their perspective and put up with anything small as long as they are honest and nice about it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Side note... two thirds of all homes in the US still have landline phones...not the best analogy. >>
Cool, now break down usage. Thanks in advance. >>
That's ok. I made my point. I'll let you do your own homework. I'm sure if you look hard enough for the right website with the right poll you will come back and tell us those 200 million folks just use them for wall decorations or paperweights.
And philosophical advice from a Brad Pitt movie? Really? What, no applicable Star Wars quotes?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I haven't habitually carried cash for a long, long time. I get that I could walk a quarter mile to a cash machine (and eat a $4 surcharge), but I would much rather use my PayPal account or credit/debit card to make any purchase. Yes, on a small purchase the +/- 3% fee the merchant has to eat isn't worth it, but on a larger purchase I frankly would expect it.
Now, as a buyer I believe it is my responsibility to find out beforehand what the merchant's payment options are. If he doesn't take credit/debit, will he do PayPal gift? I'd be shocked if anyone selling cards doesn't have a PP account, unless it's at a small mall or VFW show. After finding out if credit/debit is possible, I would then inform the seller that it is my intent to use said credit/debit card. That way when the inevitable negotiation takes place the seller can take the 3% into account when arriving at a final price.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>That's ok. I made my point. I'll let you do your own homework. I'm sure if you look hard enough for the right website with the right poll you will come back and tell us those 200 million folks just use them for wall decorations or paperweights.
And philosophical advice from a Brad Pitt movie? Really? What, no applicable Star Wars quotes?
No, you thought you made your point, but since you're stuck in 1987 you didn't bother to utilize this revolutionary new tool called "Google" to find out that land line use is right up there with cash use and Beckett price guide use.
That "philosophical advice" from the Brad Pitt movie completely changed the course of Major League Baseball. You're the old scout. The rest of us are Billy Beane. Not that you have any idea what I just said.
<< <i>I've heard the PAYPAL gift can go bad for both buyer and seller. The seller can get in trouble and lose the money. >>
Do you know someone this has happened to from a transaction at a show?
<< <i>PAYPAL has to be used as a gift. If not problems can occur. Someone on EBAY sold something off line and buyer used GIFT and it all went bad. >>
i completely disagree with this - GIFT is the worst way to use Paypal
it doesn't protect either party in the event 1) the item never shows up, or 2) the item is damaged in transit, or 3) buyer says they never received it (use Paypal to ship)
as a buyer, i'd rather pay extra or just walk away; as a seller, i never ask for gift, i either factor the fee into my pricing or just accept that 2.9% is the cost of selling
as far as the discussion around credit cards, i probably wouldn't buy again from a dealer who only takes cash, especially for large purchases (i define as $100+)
what, are we all supposed to walk around shows with a couple thousand of dollars or more in our pockets? i can't possibly know what might be at the show that i'd be interested in.
if they only take cash, the price better be unbeatable
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>I've heard the PAYPAL gift can go bad for both buyer and seller. The seller can get in trouble and lose the money. >>
As a buyer I would never use PP gift, I would rather pay the sellers PP fee's than take the chance with gift.
Edit to add, I only buy online, I would have no problem with PP Gift at a Show, that to me is as good as taking cards.
The comment about walking around with stacks of Benjamins made me think about something. As dealers we continue to take a larger percentage of sales in electronic payments; how much cash are we expected to bring ourselves to buy product from collectors? I'm sure many if not all of you will be bringing items to possibly sell at the National - will you expect to be paid in cash? I know I would. Can we as dealers pay you by credit card? Oh, you don't accept credit cards. What about PayPal? I guess that would work, though it would depend on how much we actually keep in our account. Company check? I'm sure nobody here will question whether or not our check is good, but then again, it's not like you can spend our check in the room. At the National, the only thing good as a collector about taking a check from a dealer is you're guaranteed to go home with some money.
BBCE will accept credit cards, PayPal, and cash at the National. As a buyer, we will be paying cash. Hopefully, we won't run out of it!
Reed Kasaoka
Buyer, Baseball Card Exchange
cell: (808) 372-1974
email: ReedBBCE@gmail.com
website: www.bbce.com
eBay stores: bbcexchange, bbcexchange2, bbcexchange3, bbcexchange4
That's what I'm saying.... don't use gift.
<< <i>This has been quite an interesting thread to read. I'll make sure to have fresh breath, greet you warmly and properly at the booth, ensure everything we have for sale is priced, and engage in pleasant conversation in a couple weeks at the National. In return, all I ask is please not to offer us half of our asking price as a starting point in negotiations.
The comment about walking around with stacks of Benjamins made me think about something. As dealers we continue to take a larger percentage of sales in electronic payments; how much cash are we expected to bring ourselves to buy product from collectors? I'm sure many if not all of you will be bringing items to possibly sell at the National - will you expect to be paid in cash? I know I would. Can we as dealers pay you by credit card? >>
Reed - you do understand the difference between buying wholesale / buying collections and selling retail?
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>Reed, you must make Steve a boatload of money with your acquisitions. You would have to in order to help offset the bad smell you leave every time you post online. >>
I'm just shocked that Steve hasn't banned him from posting completely.
I sold a few packs to Steve at the National last year, and happily accepted a company check. Lot easier than a wad of bills.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i> I offer an on-the-spot authentication service, so can allow 'pay in advances' and 'billing.' Will be clear in pricing. Part of my service is you get an opinion and COA right there, as you stand there with your item. No shipping or insurance, 2 month waits, no come back in 2 days.
>>
And no market credibility.
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<< <i>In return, all I ask is please not to offer us half of our asking price as a starting point in negotiations >>
You get offered half at least?? I got offered $150 for a 1933 Sport Kings Jim Thorpe card that I am asking $500 OBO for. That would be 30% of sale price - or a 70% discount. Whichever way you slice it, it was pitiful.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>Sure...I would like every dealer on earth to accept PayPal and credit cards.......However, it's THEIR choice. >>
That's fine and dandy, but the thread asked what was MY number one turn off when it came to dealers at a show. They can choose to lose business all they want, but it's still a turn off to me, and that's what was being asked.
<< <i>
<< <i> I offer an on-the-spot authentication service, so can allow 'pay in advances' and 'billing.' Will be clear in pricing. Part of my service is you get an opinion and COA right there, as you stand there with your item. No shipping or insurance, 2 month waits, no come back in 2 days.
>>
And no market credibility. >>
But he gives you a COA!!!!