Are generic gold coins worth the same in the same grade and date and series?

bosco5041

For instance: You go to a show and there are a few, lets say 1904 $20 liberty gold coins. The prices range from $1600 to $1850 in PCGS MS 63. The one that cost $1600 is average for the grade and the one for $1850 is very nice for the grade. Can a person recoupe the extra money he spent for the nicer coin or is generic gold mostly sold by what the slab says? I know this question has a lot of "ifs" and "ands" but I hope you get the point I'm asking. The reason I'm asking is, I was at a show this week and a dealer was selling a Generic 1904 $20 for $1850 in a PCGS MS-63. I thought the price was rather steep but it was a very nice coin.

ricko

There is no 'rule' for pricing.... the seller will, based on knowledge and reference material - and the eye appeal of the coin - assign a price. It is not like buying eggs... so much per dozen.... Cheers, RickO

BillJones

I would say that all things being equal, the answer is probably "No," but the nicer coin will be easier to sell for the going price when the time comes. The marginal coin will be harder sell, or you have to sell it at a discount.

But speaking of generic gold coins, here's one. This 1882 gold dollar is graded PCGS MS-65. The price on these has really come down of late. This one once sold at auction for something like $2.400 +, and I bought for several hundred less than that. It might be "generic," but it's very pretty.

crump41

Good question, and one that I have thought about before. But in my limited experience, the grade on the slab (especially with large gold buyers like RARCOA) largely determines the price you will get. I buy a fair amount of generics, but I try to cap any premium at around $100 tops over other examples in the same grade. Recently, I paid 64 money for a 63 OGH Saint. I thought the little extra money was well worth the price for a dandy looking coin - a coin that I plan to keep for a long time.

TwoSides2aCoin

If I assembled a set of generic ( Love that term ,btw) date MS 63 Saints, and realized the differences in eye appeal, I'd rather have the more eye appealing coins at the higher cost. What the future brings has no bearing on it beyond that. So, even if it's just about the flip "if and when" a profit can be had, by all means, I'll pick the better coin.

I think the answer is the same, either way. So, if it's generic, there is plenty available… be a good hunter.

GrumpyEd

A lot of ifs.

If I had a choice of generic $20 libs at a generic price then of course I'd pick the best.
If the prices are different then I'd think about why I want it and how I expect to sell it (someday) or how much I'll enjoy having the better example and base the acceptable premium on that.

The upside of buying a nicer one is if sold it may be easier to sell and maybe get a premium. This will be more important if gold stays flat or drops and premiums for nice coins in that generic grade matter and you sell it at a non generic price.

The upside of buying the cheapest coin for the grade is that if someday gold goes up to a record high and you decided today's the day to sell and you call around and ask the buying prices for generic $20 libs then you can bring it in for a quick sale. If you saved when buying then you did better and didn't need to try to get back the premium you paid. Since you used the word "generic" in your question I'd think this makes sense assuming that someday you will be selling as a generic. It also seems that when gold peaks then premiums especially within what are generic pretty much vanish. The day you think gold is peaking is also the day the dealer buying it may think is a peak. They may not be planning to keep it around to sell as a single, at a time that feels like a peak in price they may put it in a group and sell it as a generic right away and they might have based their buy price on what they knew they can move it out for right away in a generic group so for that reason they may not be willing to pay a "nice for the grade" premium.

agentjim007

Consider the extra bucks an enjoyment premium.

DDR

I agree with AgentJim007: Consider the extra bucks an enjoyment premium. I have never heard of a dealing offering extra on a generic because it looked nice. Non-Generics is a completely different matter; there eye appeal quickly becomes a factor.

roadrunner

I as well as many other collectors and dealers would be happy to pay premiums for nice generic gold coins. $20 Liberties in 63-66 certainly qualify for premiums. CAC understands this concept and by putting their sticker on one of these coins can boost the wholesale levels by 20-30% on the 65 and higher grades and 10% or so for 63's to 64's.

I know that a solid MS65 $20 LIb is worth a $1,000 premium once it gets stickered. So I'd be stupid not pay a $300-$500 premium for a PQ "generic" MS65 (unstickered). In a sense the generic quality coins are over-priced compared to the PQ ones not yet stickered. I'd much rather pay +$50 for a PQ MS64 Saint or MS63 $20 Lib then buy a piece of swill for $50 less. I'll always get that $50 back. And if your coin ends up stickering, you'll get more than $50 back.

What typically happens is that the seller "thinks" they have something really special when they don't. In those cases I wouldn't give them the extra $50 regardless of what they think. On one occasion a dealer had a very choice 1908 NM $20 Saint that to me was 64++ with an excellent 65 shot. They were asking 65 money which was sort of nuts. And it wasn't because they liked the coin, they had just paid too much for it a year earlier and the prices had fallen. I offered a $200 premium to MS64 money and they passed on it. If you have really PQ gold then get it stickered.

Don't confuse generic Morgan dollars in 64-66 with generic gold in 64-66. CAC easily assigns stickers to common Morgans....possibly a 40-50% passing rate. It just isn't like that for gold where the pass rate is from 5-20% at best. MS65 Saints and $20 Libs are in the 3-10% range. Why wouldn't you pay a premium for that kind of quality when so few coins measure up? If that $1850 MS63 $20 Lib is really $250 nicer than the one for $1600, then it should sticker (that's actually MS64 money by the way). I'd just buy the lower end MS64 for $1850. If it's being offered to you at the sticker price, then make it conditional on stickering. If the coin is unstickered, then negotiate it down closer to the $1700 level. There are no "rules" for pricing. But these are the rules I've played by for the past 12 years. When selling PQ or old slabbed generic gold to gold wholesalers I've always gotten nice premiums from them, sometimes a full grade higher. It should also be noted that when the gold market got white-hot in mid-2011 the premiums for stickered generic godl coins shrunk by 75-80%. The coins were bringing so much money in generic quality there was no real demand for PQ stuff. Product was in demand in that's what really mattered. Now that gold prices are much lower, the PQ and quality game is much more in play. The premiums for MS65 CAC Saints has gone back from +$100 (2011) to +$350/400 (2014). In many cases the CAC 65's are nicer than the generic 66's.

If you don't think quality generic gold brings a premium that you probably also don't believe that generic MS64-67 Morgans can't bring a premium either. I'd much rather pay $90-$100 for a killer MS64 Morgan than an average, unexciting coin for $70. A generic MS65 PCGS coin goes for around $175. That's a lot of spread to cover for a single grade point. It's no different for gold. Generic MS64 gold coins in the $10 and lower denominations are currently at levels seen during the early 1990's when gold was $450-$500/oz. The spreads from 63 to 64 are now small enough that paying up for a little extra quality is the smart thing to do. I've paid 50% premiums to the next grade for PQ gold that I felt would upgrade. It happens in the coin market every day. Just because Rarcoa might not pay that level to you doesn't mean no one else will. Those guys work on huge volumes and have a ready supply of gold coins at all time. They can afford to pay only a certain base level....hoping that you'll take their offer. I'd bet they have a crackout/upgrade department as well.

bosco5041

Thanks all for your replies. So I kind of get the impression that most of you would pay a small premium for generic gold just for the enjoyment side of it but you would probably not expect to get it back unless of course it was an upgrade. I thought the $1850 was to much and like RR said "that is 64 money" but he said he gave $1800 for it so that kind of throwed water on the negotiating part of it from the start.