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Gold Kennedy minted to demand (Now 75,000 Limit) - Where does it go from here ?

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  • Wouldn't it be poetic justice if the dealers paying the big flip profits got stuck holding the bag.
  • ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 8,023 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I stood in line for the clad halves with a fellow that had just gotten his gold coin an hour earlier. He told me the owner of the place was very unhappy with the Mint and ANA for all the issues the sale has brought upon the hotel. I got the distict impression that something was going to hit the fan in the next day or so between the hotel and the circus being caused by the Mint. This fellow also looked like a zombie after standing in line for 12+ hours. What really amazed me was how the dealer/organizers stood within 50 feet or so of cash registers where the line standers finally paid for the coins. As soon as they paid he walked toward them and took the Mint bag that contained the coin. The guy did it right in front of the US Mint people and in front of the crowd waiting to pay. I couldn't believe how just stood around the Mint display area and casually took possesion of many multiple coins!! The US Mint managers just stood by and did nothing!
  • A few things to note about 1st day labels...
    1) The first coin struck from any die is the true mate.
    2) Not all dies are well made.
    3) A first day strike label is not a guarantee that the coin will be the best coin produced during the year by the mint.
    4) You are paying a premium for marketing, someones ignorance, and not necessarily the absolute highest quality.
    5) Some expert numismatists (usually the variety and proof collectors) can actually read the different die states to an amazing degree... they can tell the first few coins struck from the die from the later several hundreths struck first day strike coins.
  • Does anyone know if they are issuing a Washington DC label, Philly label and such for 1st day? I just got a call from a friend I made in line telling me the dealer I sold to was going for the DC 1st day label! I said huh? I think that dealer may be SOL? Any ideas?
  • ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 8,023 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>after reading all the news items and seeing the demand and prices paid, I am sure of only one thing. The TPGs will make money on this. Those standing at the head of the line for a fee will make money. Everyone else, not so sure. >>



    The real winners are the people who immediately resold their coin for a handsome profit.

    This deal is not the ultimate barn burner for the TPG's. At the absolute most only 500 coins in a single day could be submitted to all TPG's combined and only one company is issuing the first day edition label (or whatever it's called). That August 5, 2014 first day label is the true desired designation and where the money is at. >>



    PCGS is/has missed the 1st Day label business to NGC. I don't understand why they chose not to do a 1st day label?
  • A few things to note about 1st day labels...
    1) The first coin struck from any die is the true mate.
    2) Not all dies are well made.
    3) A first day strike label is not a guarantee that the coin will be the best coin produced during the year by the mint.
    4) You are paying a premium for marketing, someones ignorance, and not necessarily the absolute highest quality.
    5) Some expert numismatists (usually the variety and proof collectors) can actually read the different die states to an amazing degree... they can tell the first few coins struck from the die from the later several hundreths struck first day strike coins.

    Maybe PCGS knows this?
  • blu62vetteblu62vette Posts: 11,922 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Wouldn't it be poetic justice if the dealers paying the big flip profits got stuck holding the bag. >>



    There have been way more people hired to by coins than coins available each day. Someone will take it in the shorts at some point.

    http://www.bluccphotos.com" target="new">BluCC Photos Shows for onsite imaging: Nov Baltimore, FUN, Long Beach http://www.facebook.com/bluccphotos" target="new">BluCC on Facebook
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Wouldn't it be poetic justice if the dealers paying the big flip profits got stuck holding the bag. >>



    yep
    theknowitalltroll;
  • dbcoindbcoin Posts: 2,200 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>after reading all the news items and seeing the demand and prices paid, I am sure of only one thing. The TPGs will make money on this. Those standing at the head of the line for a fee will make money. Everyone else, not so sure. >>



    The real winners are the people who immediately resold their coin for a handsome profit.

    This deal is not the ultimate barn burner for the TPG's. At the absolute most only 500 coins in a single day could be submitted to all TPG's combined and only one company is issuing the first day edition label (or whatever it's called). That August 5, 2014 first day label is the true desired designation and where the money is at. >>



    PCGS is/has missed the 1st Day label business to NGC. I don't understand why they chose not to do a 1st day label? >>



    the first day of issue lowers NGC to the ICG level. ICG always does that crap
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Wouldn't it be poetic justice if the dealers paying the big flip profits got stuck holding the bag. >>



    There have been way more people hired to by coins than coins available each day. Someone will take it in the shorts at some point. >>



    Do the hirers actually pay the hirees BEFORE they acquire a coin or ONLY if they acquire a coin?
    theknowitalltroll;
  • blu62vetteblu62vette Posts: 11,922 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Wouldn't it be poetic justice if the dealers paying the big flip profits got stuck holding the bag. >>



    There have been way more people hired to by coins than coins available each day. Someone will take it in the shorts at some point. >>



    Do the hirers actually pay the hirees BEFORE they acquire a coin or ONLY if they acquire a coin? >>



    Many are temp agency hires, hired for several days. They get paid regardless.
    http://www.bluccphotos.com" target="new">BluCC Photos Shows for onsite imaging: Nov Baltimore, FUN, Long Beach http://www.facebook.com/bluccphotos" target="new">BluCC on Facebook
  • goldbuffalogoldbuffalo Posts: 635 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I took a good look at the coins before I passed them off to the dealer who paid me and the wife 1800 for a total of 3600 for our 2 .the coin looks like something that the Franklin Mint would sell really poor in my eyes. on a side note the DC office still had extras after the line was completed so that means demand it the DC office was less than 500 people total!! >>



    What do you mean the Franklin Mint?

    It's the original design in 24k gold. What else should they have made for the 50th anniversary of the Kennedy Half dollar ?


    Commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Kennedy half-dollar, the United States Mint will offer its first-ever gold half-dollar.

    It features the original 1964 obverse (heads) design created by United States Mint Chief Engraver Gilroy Roberts with a special 1964-2014 inscription.
  • WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>after reading all the news items and seeing the demand and prices paid, I am sure of only one thing. The TPGs will make money on this. Those standing at the head of the line for a fee will make money. Everyone else, not so sure. >>



    The real winners are the people who immediately resold their coin for a handsome profit.

    This deal is not the ultimate barn burner for the TPG's. At the absolute most only 500 coins in a single day could be submitted to all TPG's combined and only one company is issuing the first day edition label (or whatever it's called). That August 5, 2014 first day label is the true desired designation and where the money is at. >>



    PCGS is/has missed the 1st Day label business to NGC. I don't understand why they chose not to do a 1st day label? >>



    the first day of issue lowers NGC to the ICG level. ICG always does that crap >>



    Not exactly. The 1st day label premium is worth much more than a generic early release label.
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
  • I would rather have an original 1964 Kennedy half struck on a full sized off metal gold planchet. image
  • WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    It's 2:45am CDT on 8/6/14. I took a short walk over to the convention center to see what was going on after hearing police sirens and continuous yelling over the PA. First thought it sounded like a riot. Appears police is trying to get people off the street and off the planters, threatening arrest to those not in compliance. Apparently sitting of any kind isn't allowed in line either. At this time the line is around the corner to Bryn Mawr Avenue at least a 1/4 mile long. I even saw a few dealers I know well in that line. Virtually everybody is carrying camping gear.

    Upon a quick glance the average age of a person in line appears about 25 years old but all age groups are represented. Even saw a half dozen elderly folks trying to scurry into the line on their canes and walkers.

    A bus just pulled up to deposit a few dozen more people.

    This is a complete circus, all for a coin no less. That's the truth.
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
  • Schmitz7Schmitz7 Posts: 752 ✭✭✭
    Already 500 in line at 3am
  • WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Already 500 in line at 3am >>



    My estimate is over 1000 as of 3:05am. It is a diverse bunch , representing both genders, most demographics and age groups.
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
  • rodzmrodzm Posts: 675


    << <i>
    This is a complete circus, all for a coin no less. That's the truth. >>



    image

    I'd say this sums up the Kennedy fiasco


  • << <i>

    << <i>Already 500 in line at 3am >>



    My estimate is over 1000 as of 3:05am. It is a diverse bunch , representing both genders, most demographics and age groups. >>



    If only 500 people get a coin, why are there 1,000 in line? Didn't they get the memo? Or do you think those are just people who are paid to stand in line, so they're standing in line?

    I'm baffled why the Mint would want to be a party to this. Next time, sell them all online so everyone at least seems to have an equal chance.
    Let's try not to get upset.
  • WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Already 500 in line at 3am >>



    My estimate is over 1000 as of 3:05am. It is a diverse bunch , representing both genders, most demographics and age groups. >>



    If only 500 people get a coin, why are there 1,000 in line? Didn't they get the memo? Or do you think those are just people who are paid to stand in line, so they're standing in line?

    I'm baffled why the Mint would want to be a party to this. Next time, sell them all online so everyone at least seems to have an equal chance. >>



    The real windfall is in the first day release at ANA labels, which required the coins be submitted on 8/5/14 and accompanied by a receipt showing the coins were purchased on site at the show. The online orders might be delivered in time for first release designation but not first day ANA release. That is where the money is.

    My guess why there are that many people in line is partly due to the lottery mentality: if you don't wait you have zero chance of scoring a coin. Wait in line and your chances might be minuscule but your chances are better than zero. Perhaps some miracle might happen. That and people were paid to wait so they will do it regardless.
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
  • HIGHLOWLEAVESHIGHLOWLEAVES Posts: 785 ✭✭✭
    With all of the serious problems that are occurring at the US Mint's sales locations where hoards of people are lining up to purchase a gold Kennedy coin and the TPG companies adding so much Hype for dealers to get the "Rare" label, I suggest that the USM may have to stop selling new issues this way. What would happen to the value of a ANA PF70 Gold Kennedy half be worth in days to come if all on site location Mint sales were curtailed from now on for new Mint issues ??
    Specialized Investments
  • FullStrikeFullStrike Posts: 4,353 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Wouldn't it be poetic justice if the dealers paying the big flip profits got stuck holding the bag. >>




    Don't the registry junkies drive the label market ? If correct then these label dealers know they need to get the junk at
    any price. They know tha junkies gotta have their fix.
  • alangloialangloi Posts: 35 ✭✭✭
    As of 7:30 A.M. Eastern Time today, my credit card has not be hit; My order completed within the first 15 minutes yesterday. It's going to be awhile I guess.
  • FullStrikeFullStrike Posts: 4,353 ✭✭✭
    As someone on another thread mentioned, they need to verify order limits and Credit Cards, so yes, it will take
    a little while. So hold a little or hurry and cancel.

    I think I'm going to cancel. I may end up wanting one of these after all but I have time, right? These won't end
    up like another UHR, will they ?
  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,408 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>This is a complete circus, all for a coin no less. That's the truth. >>



    It's not a coin. When the dust settles it's impossible to tell today's ANA coin from the last one sold when the mint closes sales. And they will mint to demand.

    It's the combination of a coin, and a label that 'proves' the provenance. And that's the bogon here... so what? This coin is one of [guessing] 800 MS70 coins out of 1500 that XYZS can trace back to the 2014 ANA show which are among the first coins the mint released. That is ALL it says. and so what? Are there really that many fools chasing a piece of paper? There is no way to prove they are the first minted... heck those are probably on the bottom of the pallet and orders filled from the top... They aren't first from a die - with a 600 coin die life those are scattered throughout the run.

    This isn't numismatics. It's not coin collecting. It's Beanie Babies - or for the more literate - Dutch Tulip bulbs.

    Now if one were to be in the business of creating replicas, here is an attractive piece of paper and plastic to target!!!!

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    Everything is normal so far.
    Coins on hold while they check credit cards.
    Cancel box there.
    Shipping date is still 5/8.
    So what is the problem?
    Are you having second thoughts?
    Concerned your coins have not sold yet on ebay.
    $6000 on your credit card concerning you?
    Rest easy, gold is on it's way up and so will the price of these coins when that happens.
  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭
    Anyone know how Philly went today?
    Yesterday was a total mess with dealers scoffing up. 2/3 of coins
    US mint should be ashamed of themselves of what they allowed happen
    in plain view with this release
    IMO I think big changes are coming or no more show releases
    Solve the problem with enforcement, or flood the retail locations with 5000 coins
    Per day instead of 500
  • Hope those mint employees didn't take a payoff to let those dealers play those games.
  • epcjimi1epcjimi1 Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭
    Chicago Tribune is running this pic with their story, "Gold Kennedy coin a draw at Rosemont show " -


    image



    link
  • BullsitterBullsitter Posts: 5,617 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mint rep just told me that the 40,000 were sold in 2 hours Tuesday........image


    My order is now ISR.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,691 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Everything is normal so far.
    Coins on hold while they check credit cards.
    Cancel box there.
    Shipping date is still 5/8.
    So what is the problem?
    Are you having second thoughts?
    Concerned your coins have not sold yet on ebay.
    $6000 on your credit card concerning you?
    Rest easy, gold is on it's way up and so will the price of these coins when that happens. >>



    I thought you had stated after the HOF fiasco that you would never deal with the US Mint again. Now you are defending them and telling people to be patient? LOL..


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • BillsonBillson Posts: 77 ✭✭✭
    Just an FYI, my online Order Date: 08/05/2014 at 12:47 PM show "In stock and reserved" with cancel box. no charge appearing on credit yet

    Successful BST transactions:
    Buy and sold to Wondercoin,
    Buy from: mbogoman, sol15g



  • << <i>Mint rep just told me that the 40,000 were sold in 2 hours Tuesday........image


    My order is now ISR >>



    Same here for my order at 1:01PM image
  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Hope those mint employees didn't take a payoff to let those dealers play those games >>



    I don't know what was going on, but they were very accommodating of those two buyers
  • goldbuffalogoldbuffalo Posts: 635 ✭✭✭

    The funny thing about the ANA shows, for today and future days, is they are being sold LATER then the ones i got from the Mint !!!


    Maybe my label should say 'Pre ANA show sale'


  • brendanlambrendanlam Posts: 662 ✭✭✭
    any order show IN PROCESS yet?
  • Mine is IRS.
  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭
    Im thinking there is going to be REAL changes in the way these coins are offered at future shows.

    The dealers will clean up on this one, but my guess is that its gonna get real tough to "buck" the system next time.

    The US Mint should institute a "lottery" where you sign up online and you are alerted if you are selected randomly for the opportunity to buy a coin in person. Real easy.

    Show up with your printed ticket (printed at home), your photo ID, pay with YOUR credit card (no preloaded cards or cards not in your name) or by CHECK where the account is in your name.

    Done. Fixed.
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Everything is normal so far.
    Coins on hold while they check credit cards.
    Cancel box there.
    Shipping date is still 5/8.
    So what is the problem?
    Are you having second thoughts?
    Concerned your coins have not sold yet on ebay.
    $6000 on your credit card concerning you?
    Rest easy, gold is on it's way up and so will the price of these coins when that happens. >>



    I thought you had stated after the HOF fiasco that you would never deal with the US Mint again. Now you are defending them and telling people to be patient? LOL.. >>




    I want one of these coins for my grandson and I got in eary enough to get one. I was surprised. The mint is screwed up but improving I think.
  • bestdaybestday Posts: 4,239 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Everything is normal so far.
    Coins on hold while they check credit cards.
    Cancel box there.
    Shipping date is still 5/8.
    So what is the problem?
    Are you having second thoughts?
    Concerned your coins have not sold yet on ebay.
    $6000 on your credit card concerning you?
    Rest easy, gold is on it's way up and so will the price of these coins when that happens. >>



    I thought you had stated after the HOF fiasco that you would never deal with the US Mint again. Now you are defending them and telling people to be patient? LOL.. >>



    seems several of those stated that about the hofs only to in hog wild into gold kennedys ...go figure image
  • The Tribune missed the story behind the story ...
    Let's try not to get upset.
  • rodzmrodzm Posts: 675
    BOOM...both of my orders from 12:03 and 12:07 are in stock and reserved. Cancel box still there though; credit card has not been hit though
  • RODZM got it right with the Coin Circus posting.
    Very funny.
    Once the get rich quick money scammers exit this bubble, somebody gonna take a hit.
    Classic Whack-a-Mole.
    image
  • mariner67mariner67 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Everything is normal so far.
    Coins on hold while they check credit cards.
    Cancel box there.
    Shipping date is still 5/8.
    So what is the problem?
    Are you having second thoughts?
    Concerned your coins have not sold yet on ebay.
    $6000 on your credit card concerning you?
    Rest easy, gold is on it's way up and so will the price of these coins when that happens. >>



    I thought you had stated after the HOF fiasco that you would never deal with the US Mint again. Now you are defending them and telling people to be patient? LOL.. >>



    imageimage
    Successful trades/buys/sells with gdavis70, adriana, wondercoin, Weiss, nibanny, IrishMike, commoncents05, pf70collector, kyleknap, barefootjuan, coindeuce, WhiteTornado, Nefprollc, ajw, JamesM, PCcoins, slinc, coindudeonebay,beernuts, and many more
  • badhop55badhop55 Posts: 158 ✭✭✭
    4371xxxx @ 1:21 ISR
  • pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    These still have a chance to be a good flip for those getting them in the first wave and the mint seems to be handling this one well. The fiasco in Chicago will do nothing more than make these coins more desirable in the next few weeks.
  • HalfStrikeHalfStrike Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭
    I must be getting old but i don't see it for this coin. I feel bad for the real collectors who will be stuck with a high mintage coin that will do nothing for years down the road. There are many gold coins with mintages under 15,000 that have done nothing, and this one has been propped up to over 40,000.

    The mint did an excellent job of selling this, I never would have guessed they could pull this off with this high of sales so fast. I doubt they change a thing as this sold, and sold big. They are probably already planning next year and what gold will be in a special set.

    Also pre-announcing how many coins was struck was a smart move, it set an artificial amount for buyers to target.

    Overall the mint did an amazing job on this, however the end result is that goes against the potential value as an investment.
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,954 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like a pic from an occupy Wall Street protest.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • goldgirlgoldgirl Posts: 159 ✭✭


    << <i>Also pre-announcing how many coins was struck was a smart move, it set an artificial amount for buyers to target. >>



    Some of the Descriptions on these Pre-Sale coins on ebay just crack me up...
    "With limited productionof this Kennedy gold proof coin and anticipated high demand, you need to act now to be one of the first to own this very exclusive coin."
  • KonaheadKonahead Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭
    same here ISR from 12:30, let's see where they go.
    PEACE! This is the first day of the rest of your life.

    Fred, Las Vegas, NV

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