Should I buy a Saddle Ridge Hoard Double Eagle?

rays

I like the MS63+ at $6750 for 1889-S, but I can't decide if its a good deal or not.

MGLICKER

<< <i>I like the MS63+ at $6750 for 1889-S, but I can't decide if its a good deal or not. >>



Do you have a link?

MsMorrisine

You mean now or in a few years on the aftermarket?

rays

<< <i>

<< <i>I like the MS63+ at $6750 for 1889-S, but I can't decide if its a good deal or not. >>



Do you have a link? >>



1889-S MS63+

rays

<< <i>You mean now or in a few years on the aftermarket? >>



Now. They are going fast.

stealer

I do not think you will be happy with that one. Pick another.

RYK

<< <i>I like the MS63+ at $6750 for 1889-S, but I can't decide if its a good deal or not. >>


Why buy one? Buy the set!

bestmr

If you're fine in losing money, imo, for a name on the slab, then go for it. I think you could find a nicer one minus the horde name that'll look nice and be a lot cheaper as well.
I personally think the prices are almost to the point of gouging.

TwoSides2aCoin

Before I could remember my password last night, the only 1861 S that wasn't in a 92 holder (XF) was in my line of site. I "should" have remembered my password. It (that coins) was not available by the time I re-set the password. They're just coins. You should do what you want. I should remember my passwords.

telephoto1

A problem free PCGS 63 sold in January at FUN Heritage auction (in a stronger market no less) for $6400, and that price was including the buyer's juice...

So...compare that with $6750 for a weak 63 with rust stains and what looks to be subdued luster, and that's just based on the pics provided.

Hmmm... good deal or not... I'm stymied.

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>A problem free PCGS 63 sold in January at FUN Heritage auction (in a stronger market no less) for $6400, and that price was including the buyer's juice...

So...compare that with $6750 for a weak 63 with rust stains and what looks to be subdued luster, and that's just based on the pics provided.

Hmmm... good deal or not... I'm stymied. >>


On a bottom line "$ dollar" for dollar it's usually a no brainer, so with that, I agree. There is a provenance and that added "mystique" as history usually shows, adds value, and that might be the key to maintaining future value. Maybe… maybe not ? The "name" is the claim to fame. Not necessarily the coin , in some cases.

It's an interesting hoard, just the same.

telephoto1

<< <i>

<< <i>A problem free PCGS 63 sold in January at FUN Heritage auction (in a stronger market no less) for $6400, and that price was including the buyer's juice...

So...compare that with $6750 for a weak 63 with rust stains and what looks to be subdued luster, and that's just based on the pics provided.

Hmmm... good deal or not... I'm stymied. >>


On a bottom line "$ dollar" for dollar it's usually a no brainer, so with that, I agree. There is a provenance and that added "mystique" as history usually shows, adds value, and that might be the key to maintaining future value. Maybe… maybe not ? The "name" is the claim to fame. Not necessarily the coin , in some cases.

It's an interesting hoard, just the same. >>



Paraphrasing a comment I made on another Saddle Ridge-related thread... A few years hence, or whenever the new latest-greatest hoard surfaces (and gets its own catchy buzzword name like "The Wild West Stagecoach Robbery Gunfight Hoard" or "The Super Wealthy Eccentric Old Fart Who Croaked Hoard")...no one will care that you paid premium money for an inferior coin simply because of the name attached.

Sooner or later it goes back to the coin...and I can't in good conscience recommend paying over retail money for a subpar item just because someone stumbled over it in their back yard.

BillJones

If you ignore the dull spots in back of Ms. Liberty's bun and the 13th star, it looks nice for an MS-63. The trouble is those marks lead me to believe that the coin has been "conserved." My experience with conserved coins that came from the SS Central America was that some of them were not stable. They toned after a few years, and in some cases the copper spots that come up were very detrimental to the value.

Bottom line: I say approach this with care, and given that you will have to pay top dollar retail, I'd say pass.

ajman

With all due respect to Kagin's, I wonder if it would have been worth it to send all of the coins to PCGS Restoration Service. I see a lot of hairlines and rust spots in a fair amount of coins here. From what I've read and seen I gather that they were restored in house, then submitted. If someone knows different please correct me if I'm wrong. Don't know if doing this would enhance the overall eye appeal or not.

oih82w8

PCGS has this particular one tending at $8,000 and a TrueView to boot.

I have a feeling that these will come down in value in the near future once the hub-bub wears off.

Nice coin, but way too distant for me.

Coinosaurus

Skip it. If you want a treasure coin, buy a SSCA one on the secondary market.

Pedigree is only worth extra $$ when you are the first seller.

AnkurJ

I'd rather have an AU58 example from the SS Central America.

FullStrike

This whole Saddle Ridge thing is giving me a new apppretiation for the BU and Proof Gold that the Mint sells. To get a really
nice Saddle Ridge $20 you need to spend $125,000.00 ( 1890-S MS66 ). How much nearly perfect freshly minted Gold
can you get from the Mint for that money?

The Gold used by the Mint is the same age as that used to form the Saddle Ridge Coins. The modern US Mint offers true value.



PCGS GUIDE

$$$$$ 1890-S MS66. $45,000

MS66+ $55,000


1890-S MS66 Saddle Ridge retail $125,000. ????????

how would a person justify that expenditure ??????????

ricko

Buy the coin, not they hype.......these will likely never be worth their sale price again.....Cheers, RickO

291fifth

Pass.

19Lyds

After comparing ask prices with price guide values, I decided that the premiums were just too steep on these coins regardless of what the label says.

Of course, I do understand that there is a whole slew of label collectors out there but I just cannot believe that these prices will be sustainable.

On the coin I was considering (an XF40) Price Guide was $1,555 while ask was $3,150. That's a $1,595 premium folks. Granted the spread on the OP's coin is much much lower AND, after looking at the guide yet again, I see that PCGS was ice enough to assign the Saddle Ridge coins their own coin numbers! (Isn't that sweet?)

One cannot help but wonder what this will mean in 10 years?

roadrunner

The more available SR coins will have to stand on their own merits as "treasure coins" over the next 5-10 years. I don't think they quite have the same aura as say SS Central America, Brother Johnathon, etc. Imagine the millions of dollars invested in high tech equipment needed to find and then bring up the SSCA gold? The SR hoard needed only a $20 shovel to excavate the contents. The hundreds of mint state 89-s and 92-s $20's having surfaced more than covers every possible date set collector who would ever need one in MS63 or higher grade. Their demand is now pretty much from treasure hunters and "selective" type coin collectors. One advantage with the SSCA 1857-s $20's is that MS63 Type I $20 Libs dated other than 57-s are rare. If you want a choice Type I Lib your only real option w/o spending a ton is the 57-s.....at least until the next ship wreck comes along. There are a hundred thousand or more MS63, MS64, and MS65 common date Type 3 $20 Libs to choose from w/o having to pay $5500-$6500 for an MS63 "treasure coin." Then again, I'm still surprised that the shipwreck effect seated halves from years ago still command hundreds of dollars for salt water damaged AU coins.

s4ny

Just not worth the huge markup. Buy a PCGS common date AU58 $20 Lib for $1450 vs $3800 from the hoard.

These prices will fall. This is strictly retail.

crypto79

Hi Rays, love your set and trust your eye. My 2c for your consideration.

If you are worried about the gap in value maybe consider one of the PL coins which might cross over to said PL holder at NGC. True they will show the chattiness a little more but the PL carries the eye appeal most of the time and the value bump might eat up some of the fire sale premium you might have to shell out. Good luck

Walkerfan

<< <i>If you're fine in losing money, imo, for a name on the slab, then go for it. I think you could find a nicer one minus the horde name that'll look nice and be a lot cheaper as well.
I personally think the prices are almost to the point of gouging. >>

410a

S4NY...................

FullStrike

PCGS GUIDE


1890-S MS66 $45,000

1890-S MS66+ $55,000




1890-S MS66 Saddle Ridge retail $125,000. ????????

how would a person justify that expenditure ??????????


This is one heck of a premium. It's a really nice looking Coin but at almost
triple the PCGS Guide price? Not today, not from this collector.

roadrunner

<< <i>PCGS GUIDE

1890-S MS66 $45,000

1890-S MS66+ $55,000


1890-S MS66 Saddle Ridge retail $125,000. ????????

how would a person justify that expenditure ??????????


This is one heck of a premium. It's a really nice looking Coin but at almost
triple the PCGS Guide price? Not today, not from this collector. >>




What the price guide isn't telling us is that none of this date in MS66 have apparently sold before. There are only 2 1890-s MS66's on the pop report...I'm going to assume both are SR coins.
How many MS66 $20 Libs are there from 1866 to 1895? If you guess 2, you'd be right. Both are 1890-s. That's quite a different view. When it comes to S mints in MS66 there are typically none or
1 for each date. The two most "common" S mint dates have 3-5. What's a pop 1 worth when there are no others like it for any date over a 30 year span? I would say that the PCGS price guides seem somewhat
low in light of that information. They are also the two finest condition $20 gold coins from a world class gold coin hoard. That's worth something as well. The SSCA hoard had approx two hundred MS66/67 1857-s (all type
coins now). So two single coins in MS66 vs. hundreds in the other hoard. In any case, the seller is starting out at "Mars money" so they can settle on "Moon money" when it's all said and done. Still, I wouldn't be surprised
if some deep pockets player comes up with a counter offer not far from $100K. The earlier S mints just don't exist in MS66 with the exception of the 1857-s. And the lone 1875-s in MS67 is a freak one of one worth over half
a MILL. I suspect many of those other MS66 and MS67 later date S mints are ex-Eliasberg coins and similar famous collections. Major old time collections and hoards is about the only source for them. If not for the common
1904 in MS66 there would be no real supply of superb type 3 $20 Libs. If one compares these coins to low pop/top pop MS66/67 Saints which routinely carry reach lower 6 figures, it's not that far off. While I might have priced
the MS66 1890-s coins at $65K to $85K, I'm not the owner. Someday, someone with a lot of money will have a REG set of $20 Libs with most of the pop tops. That will be the day they close a lot of the gap with the Saints.

There are a lot of coins I'd love to buy for PCGS price guide money...doesn't mean it will happen. These 2 coins in MS66 won't carry those listed prices for much longer. Per PCGS price guide I'd love to buy an 1857-0 half in
real MS65 for $22,000 (they haven't graded one higher than 64). And how about an 1868-s 25c in MS67 (pop 1) for $55,000? I doubt you could buy that coin for under $80K....probably not under $100K. Then I see other
dates I wouldn't pay even 1/2 to 2/3 of price guide. No price guide is perfect. The price for that 1857-0 half is based on zero PCGS transactions. But, I'm pretty sure where that number came from - and it was a logical source
- just not technically correct if you know this market.

FullStrike

Well that puts things in a different light. I would think Kagins might want to mention the populations.

Might end up in a sale or two.

roadrunner

<< <i>Well that puts things in a different light. I would think Kagins might want to mention the populations.
Might end up in a sale or two. >>



I suspect they know that the real players for those coins know the pops and the market inside and out. But, even if some treasure hunter would like to own one of the only MS66's from the hoard, they can pay up. It's
not like more than one other person will have one like it. If it were me I'd want to have the 66+ knowing it's the best of the two. The finest knowns of most dates seem to have a habit of bailing out the owners over time.
I'm looking at pop top seated quarter prices in the PCGS price guide and I'm shocked that quite a few of them have essentially doubled over the past couple of years. So it would be no surprise to see the 90-s in MS66 double
up soon. Before SR the 90-s in MS65 was probably worth $40K to $50K (pop 1 with none higher in 2005).

The $20's in SR that really caught my eye where the MS65's (77-s, 79, 84-s, 85-s, 87-s) and MS64's (79, 79-s, 80-s, 81-s, 82-s)....dates that basically haven't been available or nearly non-existant in those grades. I'm sure they
sold for a ton of money too. I knew I could never afford an MS66 1890-s nor would I want one of the multitude of the MS61-64 1889-s coins. But those dozen or so coins above....any one of those would have been neat to get.

tradedollarnut

How about the 66-S at double priceguide and a cool 5x the NGC coin's auction price realized?

DIMEMAN

I can think of a lot of better ways to spend $6750!