10 point upgrade

Boosibri

I bought this 1847 raw and had it initially graded early this year. To my surprise it came back as an XF40 which seemed low to me. It was cracked and resubmitted and is now in an AU50 holder, which seems more right to me.

Two questions...

Am I wrong to be disappointed that the level of subjectivity can be so wide in modern day grading? There is a big difference to me between a 40 and a 50 which is beyond the realm of reasonableness in current grading standards.

What is your opinion, is the coin closer to XF40 or AU50.

Broadstruck

10 points is a huge spread and I feel it was graded properly at XF40.

As far as modern grading I haven't added a AU58 SLQ to my set since July 2012, as even in AU58+ holders I'm not seeing anything I like as a slider.

robertpr

Firstly, it might numerically be a ten point spread but it's really only two grades apart. Based on the images, I'd have said 45. Now if the luster is nice then maybe a 50. PCGS has, IMHO, been pretty ridiculous lately and I'm not surprised seeing recent grades come back way, way low. Honestly I'm surprised you got that into a 50 holder.

Boosibri

For reference here is an XF40


A 45


The 50 in question


A 53

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Broadstruck

I know how tough this date is as I once played with a 1847 set and wouldn't really call the XF40 and 45 reference just examples that were tru-viewed. Now take a good look at your now AU50 and the AU53... If yours is truly a AU50 shouldn't the 53 be like a AU58?

Boosibri

<< <i>I know how tough this date is as I once played with a 1847 set and wouldn't really call the XF40 and 45 reference just examples that were tru-viewed. Now take a good look at your now AU50 and the AU53... If yours is truly a AU50 shouldn't the 53 be like a AU58? >>



I don't have a library of 1847 dime images to draw upon so the true views will have to do. I think the coin is a 45 but closer to 50 than 40.

The point of the thread was less about the actual grade and more about the disappointment at the wide grading band. Irony is that this simple difference of opinion illustrates how subjective grading is.

lordmarcovan

I'd split the difference and call that 45, personally.

Sweet looking toning there.

Burks

I'd say XF45 but could see it going AU50 if the luster was excellent.

thisnamztaken

I like it as a 40-45, but I think to really grade it properly you would need someone familiar with the normal striking characteristics of that year, which I am not, and someone who is good at grading toners also.

bosco5041

As someone has said before "It would be nice if each coin came with a short explanation of how the grade was arrived at".

coinkat

Your question is reasonable and I would respond with the following:

Grading is a subjective opinion. Some opinions are better than others. Grading is not a math problem and collectors seem to treat it that way whereby there should be some sort of sound formula to create an exact answer with respect to a grade. That is just an unrealistic expectation. Coins even in the same grade are not equal. So the debate shifts from the coin, which is what is important, to the TPG slab leading to the argument that one is better than the other. Well, that discussion is really pointless because it circles back to subjectivity.

Great coins and pictures to illustrate the challenges of grading. Subjectivity is here to stay.

FWITW, I like your coin and it seems that the quality of the surfaces make have been overlooked the first time. The coin was rewarded for its original look and that is not such a bad thing.

ms70

I think it's properly graded at 50. My suspicion is more toward the label being a mistake, not the grading.

crypto79

Xf to AU 53 can all be similar amounts of wear and depend on surface preservation IE luster, toning and eye appeal. While that isn't beefiest AU50 the surfaces appear to have the pop required and in my experience AU50 is the AU net grade at PCGS. Could have been look of AU53 with too much high point loss. Also known as a "flashy" xf45

Patches

It looks like a great coin regardless. If I saw the coin in a 2x2, I would personally grade is XF+. So it looks like you've had PCGS see each side of XF45 in their evaluation. The grades close, I have no problem with AU50 on it.

sparky64

I like it at 45 or 50.
The eye appeal carries it.

Wabbit2313

<< <i>Firstly, it might numerically be a ten point spread but it's really only two grades apart. >>




This and if the grader likes nice toning, you can get a little bump. Minus your toning and turn it grey in color, it will look like the 40.

TPRC

I sure would like to buy it as a 40. I don't have a problem with it as a 45 or even a 50.

ColonelJessup

Three statisticians decide to learn how to hunt rabbits. They set out as a sniper team of one shooter and two spotters, and after an arduous wait, they triangulate.

The first shot! Missed!
"Eighteen inches to the right"

The second shot!
"Eighteen inches to the left!

No need for the last shot taken. Its sound would have been lost in the trio of cheers. Statistically.....

"We Got 'Em!

ricko

XF40...you received a gift...do not try again... Cheers, RickO

BryceM

To me, the XF vs AU call is heavily dependent on luster. That's one quality that is very difficult to evaluate in a photo, so I'll just say that in a world of a trillion occurrences, funny stuff happens sometimes.

coinpictures

Based on the images alone, which can be misleading, that 53 is light years above the 50 in question, i.e., the 50 is much closer to the 40 than the 53 is to the 50. Methinks that 53 is as undergraded as the 50 is overgraded. I'd love to see other 53s in comparison.

As others have mentioned, take the gift and run.

johnny9434

id be happy with an xf 45. im not sure about a 50 though, jmo

SAM5969

<< <i>The point of the thread was less about the actual grade and more about the disappointment at the wide grading band. Irony is that this simple difference of opinion illustrates how subjective grading is. >>



Keep drinking the Kool-Aid folks .. If this coin were graded by NGC this thread would be twice as long referencing the holier than thou PCGS ..

Of course it is subjective .. And grading it 50 is far from conservative .. Didn't I read a comment from the OP (the Lance thread regarding the 5 Bust halves going from 55 to 58) saying how he would prefer "B" coins in the lower graded holder (with a sticker no less) than the higher graded holder .. "They tend to sell the same" .. right???

The whole hobby is subjective .. and to get a 10 point spread possibility, 2 grades or not .. 2 grades is a lot .. how about a 62 being graded 64 or a 53 being graded 58 or even a VG10 being graded VF20 ... TOO FAR apart to make the opinion credible .. Feed the monster; they need the money ....

MsMorrisine

If all else fails, one can blame "mechanical errors"

:-/

mozin

<< <i>XF40...you received a gift...do not try again... Cheers, RickO >>