<< <i>>>>Translation: It really grinds my gears that I haven't come up with such innovative, practical and prosperity-generating ideas myself. >>
Bingo.<<<
Right!! I want to make bogus coins instead of collecting the real thing! NOT!!!
A lot of us see this as counterfeiting. And again.....why would anyone want these bogus coins! >>
Ahhhh. But what "kind" of counterfeiting?
Counterfeiting of a US Dollar which costs $125 which can be spend at a local Walmart for $1 ?
Or
Counterfeiting if a Rare Collectible Coin which never existed in the first place?
OR
Maybe Counterfeiting for the sake of Silver Bullion where the coin could be sold (technically yes) for 90% of the current cost of silver?
Or Just maybe counterfeiting with the hopes that someone will wander along and purchase one of these for millions of dollars thinking its a rare one off minting? You know, kinda like those rare Hobo Nickels that were produced by the US Mint?
Or perhaps the Hobby needs protecting so that the ultra stupid who happened to win the lottery or whose late uncle left them a fortune don't go out and spend their 401K's or inheritances on these million dollar coins?
Exactly WHAT kind of "protection" is needed here?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>>>>Translation: It really grinds my gears that I haven't come up with such innovative, practical and prosperity-generating ideas myself. >>
Bingo.<<<
Right!! I want to make bogus coins instead of collecting the real thing! NOT!!!
A lot of us see this as counterfeiting. And again.....why would anyone want these bogus coins! >>
Ahhhh. But what "kind" of counterfeiting?
Counterfeiting of a US Dollar which costs $125 which can be spend at a local Walmart for $1 ?
Or
Counterfeiting if a Rare Collectible Coin which never existed in the first place?
OR
Maybe Counterfeiting for the sake of Silver Bullion where the coin could be sold (technically yes) for 90% of the current cost of silver?
Or Just maybe counterfeiting with the hopes that someone will wander along and purchase one of these for millions of dollars thinking its a rare one off minting? You know, kinda like those rare Hobo Nickels that were produced by the US Mint?
Or perhaps the Hobby needs protecting so that the ultra stupid who happened to win the lottery or whose late uncle left them a fortune don't go out and spend their 401K's or inheritances on these million dollar coins?
Exactly WHAT kind of "protection" is needed here? >>
I own a few Carr pieces, but missed the 1964 Peace Dollar, so I bought the 65.
What does concern me is the number of 1964-D Peace Dollars I see on eBay that are NOT Daniel Carr issues and not the ones by Royal Oak Mint with COPY on them. The sellers never say what they are. I wonder..
<< <i>What does concern me is the number of 1964-D Peace Dollars I see on eBay that are NOT Daniel Carr issues and not the ones by Royal Oak Mint with COPY on them. The sellers never say what they are. I wonder.. >>
Or perhaps the Hobby needs protecting so that the ultra stupid who happened to win the lottery or whose late uncle left them a fortune don't go out and spend their 401K's or inheritances on these million dollar coins?
Exactly WHAT kind of "protection" is needed here? >>
You sure cannot save the QVC type crowd from themselves. The 1965 dollars struck by Dan Carr are out of the league of most of the gullible types anyway.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
Yeah. You see "Copy" anywhere? I don't. And I doubt it's a DC. So is it legal? >>
Those have been around for a while. Of course, I did NOT make those. They are not over-struck, and they are not even real silver. They are easily identifiable by: 1) Not silver. 2) Not over-struck. 3) Rough texture, especially in the centers (weak strikes on rough planchets). 4) Poorly-formed "64" date digits. 5) Design details are very mushy (not an exact match to the original Peace Dollar contours).
Here is a somewhat better image of the same thing, but artificially antiqued and with a "photoshopped" "COPY" stamp (which isn't actually on the thing): Note the low position of the mushy "D" mint mark.
And here is a different (presumably Chinese) one which has some similar characteristics, but note the high "D" mint mark position:
Yeah. You see "Copy" anywhere? I don't. And I doubt it's a DC. So is it legal? >>
Those have been around for a while. Of course, I did NOT make those. They are not over-struck, and they are not even real silver. They are easily identifiable by: 1) Not silver. 2) Not over-struck. 3) Rough texture, especially in the centers (weak strikes on rough planchets). 4) Poorly-formed "64" date digits. 5) Design details are very mushy (not an exact match to the original Peace Dollar contours). >>
What is your feeling on the legality? I would think they are not?
Yeah. You see "Copy" anywhere? I don't. And I doubt it's a DC. So is it legal? >>
Those have been around for a while. Of course, I did NOT make those. They are not over-struck, and they are not even real silver. They are easily identifiable by: 1) Not silver. 2) Not over-struck. 3) Rough texture, especially in the centers (weak strikes on rough planchets). 4) Poorly-formed "64" date digits. 5) Design details are very mushy (not an exact match to the original Peace Dollar contours). >>
What is your feeling on the legality? I would think they are not? >>
It looks sort of like a legal-tender $1, but isn't (and never was). If you started uttering these (spending or attempting to spend them while knowing they were not legal tender), then you could very possibly get arrested.
Back in 1965, a lot of us collectors were wondering why the government didn't strike 1965-dated dollars in 40% silver instead. Especially since they were doing just that for Kennedy halves. The government would have made a nice profit on the seigniorage and the dollars would have circulated, just as the halves did for a few decades.
What is your feeling on the legality? I would think they are not? >>
It looks sort of like a legal-tender $1, but isn't (and never was). If you started uttering these (spending or attempting to spend them while knowing they were not legal tender), then you could very possibly get arrested. >>
<< <i>Back in 1965, a lot of us collectors were wondering why the government didn't strike 1965-dated dollars in 40% silver instead. Especially since they were doing just that for Kennedy halves. The government would have made a nice profit on the seigniorage and the dollars would have circulated, just as the halves did for a few decades. >>
I believe that the answer lies in the legislation which became known as the Coinage Act of 1965.
It specifically forbid the production of ANY dollar coin, silver or not, for 5 (maybe 6) years after passage of the act.
The end result was the Eisenhower Dollar.
And to lay it to rest before anybody picks up on it, Half Dollars failed to circulate after the 1964 Half was issued. The circulated very little prior to that and simply dies after that.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>And to lay it to rest before anybody picks up on it, Half Dollars failed to circulate after the 1964 Half was issued. The circulated very little prior to that and simply dies after that. >>
Halves never circulated to the extent quarters and dimes did, but Kennedy halves did circulate after 1964. I spent and received many in change during the 1960's and 1970's. The number of circulated 1965-69 halves surviving today (and sometimes still found in rolls) testifies to their time spent in circulation.
What is your feeling on the legality? I would think they are not? >>
It looks sort of like a legal-tender $1, but isn't (and never was). If you started uttering these (spending or attempting to spend them while knowing they were not legal tender), then you could very possibly get arrested. >>
So should eBay be selling them? >>
Technically, the person creating the listing is the one that is "selling" it. eBay is the advertising venue. There are a lot of things that are far worse that shouldn't be advertised in my opinion, like any products containing addictive substances such as nicotene or aspartame.
But to answer your question, eBay's own rules seem to indicate that these are a type of "prohibited item". But many things about eBay don't make a lot of sense.
Well, I guess we'll see well accepted they are to buyers. Looks like there's 2 on the 'bay now, one an auction, 3 days, with reserve, already at $127.50, reserve not met, and one for a flat BIN of $199
seller has 4 for sale BUT, looks like he has sold the '64-D's, his description is a mess, but his title states 'High Grade', description says 'bulk handled'
<< <i>Well, I guess we'll see well accepted they are to buyers. Looks like there's 2 on the 'bay now, one an auction, 3 days, with reserve, already at $127.50, reserve not met, and one for a flat BIN of $199
seller has 4 for sale BUT, looks like he has sold the '64-D's, his description is a mess, but his title states 'High Grade', description says 'bulk handled' >>
But those are "real" ones. I think it's a safe bet that some fool is going to confuse the other crap with the DC issues. I don't think eBay should have those junk things. Yeah, yeah, caveat emptor but it can damage the hobby, or so think I.
<< <i>Well, I guess we'll see well accepted they are to buyers. Looks like there's 2 on the 'bay now, one an auction, 3 days, with reserve, already at $127.50, reserve not met, and one for a flat BIN of $199
seller has 4 for sale BUT, looks like he has sold the '64-D's, his description is a mess, but his title states 'High Grade', description says 'bulk handled' >>
But those are "real" ones. I think it's a safe bet that some fool is going to confuse the other crap with the DC issues. I don't think eBay should have those junk things. Yeah, yeah, caveat emptor but it can damage the hobby, or so think I. >>
Well, it does look like some fool is buying this one, but it DOES say it is NOT the Carr Peace dollar. Is there any doubt this is not even made of silver, where the seller states "IT WEIGHS A LITTLE LESS THAN A SILVER DOLLAR. LOOKS AND FEELS LIKE A REAL SILVER DOLLAR."???
<< <i>And to lay it to rest before anybody picks up on it, Half Dollars failed to circulate after the 1964 Half was issued. The circulated very little prior to that and simply dies after that. >>
Halves never circulated to the extent quarters and dimes did, but Kennedy halves did circulate after 1964. I spent and received many in change during the 1960's and 1970's. The number of circulated 1965-69 halves surviving today (and sometimes still found in rolls) testifies to their time spent in circulation. >>
That was my experience back then. Halves didn't circulate widely, but they did circulate.
<< <i>And to lay it to rest before anybody picks up on it, Half Dollars failed to circulate after the 1964 Half was issued. The circulated very little prior to that and simply dies after that. >>
Halves never circulated to the extent quarters and dimes did, but Kennedy halves did circulate after 1964. I spent and received many in change during the 1960's and 1970's. The number of circulated 1965-69 halves surviving today (and sometimes still found in rolls) testifies to their time spent in circulation. >>
Half Dollars circulated in Slot machines and gambling tables where they are still used today.
Occasionally, some showed up in circulation but I had never experienced seeing them in a cash drawer because I was looking. Half's were returned to the bank the exact same way that dollars are today.
And that's my experience.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>And to lay it to rest before anybody picks up on it, Half Dollars failed to circulate after the 1964 Half was issued. The circulated very little prior to that and simply dies after that. >>
Halves never circulated to the extent quarters and dimes did, but Kennedy halves did circulate after 1964. I spent and received many in change during the 1960's and 1970's. The number of circulated 1965-69 halves surviving today (and sometimes still found in rolls) testifies to their time spent in circulation. >>
Half Dollars circulated in Slot machines and gambling tables where they are still used today.
Occasionally, some showed up in circulation but I had never experienced seeing them in a cash drawer because I was looking. Half's were returned to the bank the exact same way that dollars are today.
And that's my experience. >>
I have seen coins used in a casino just one time, in the UP of Michigan last summer. Otherwise they are all coinless now. That particular casino had well maintained older machines. I did like getting coins in payouts, the real clinking of coins hitting the tray is a much more pleasant sound than that stupid canned noise in the coinless places.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
Just wanted to thank the OP for this as news travel fast on these pages. Love Dan's stuff and ordered one. As an aside, I do think these do bear some analogy to Warhol & if anything go "one up" on presenting the original designs. The 1964, but especially the Oregon Trail were IMO masterful.
With regards to the latter, I have an MS65 extremely well struck 1936-S that might even be undergraded and does not hold a candle to Dan's coin.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>Well, I guess we'll see well accepted they are to buyers. Looks like there's 2 on the 'bay now, one an auction, 3 days, with reserve, already at $127.50, reserve not met, and one for a flat BIN of $199
seller has 4 for sale BUT, looks like he has sold the '64-D's, his description is a mess, but his title states 'High Grade', description says 'bulk handled' >>
But those are "real" ones. I think it's a safe bet that some fool is going to confuse the other crap with the DC issues. I don't think eBay should have those junk things. Yeah, yeah, caveat emptor but it can damage the hobby, or so think I. >>
Well, it does look like some fool is buying this one, but it DOES say it is NOT the Carr Peace dollar. Is there any doubt this is not even made of silver, where the seller states "IT WEIGHS A LITTLE LESS THAN A SILVER DOLLAR. LOOKS AND FEELS LIKE A REAL SILVER DOLLAR."??? >>
And so the hobby is burdened with yet one more counterfeit. It was not sold with any attempt to deceive. This time.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
And so the hobby is burdened with yet one more counterfeit. It was not sold with any attempt to deceive. This time. >>
Why don't you go take an aspirin and relax. Not worth having a heart attack over. >>
You try telling thousands of people over the years "Sorry, but your coin is counterfeit." I have.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>It's a winning formula: (Can be done in multiples.)
Purchase five. Wait six months. Sell three. Keep the other two for free.
Repeat for the next release. >>
This sounds good. There are a few I missed out on and the secondary market prices tend to be fairly healthy right now. It's also good to provide a service for those that aren't able to pick them up the first time around, such as I was on a few issues.
I wasn't sure about the 1965 date at first, but as I think about it more, I think it's a fitting anniversary issue for this. I like the 1965 date in that none were ever minted with that date but there were coins minted in that year.
And so the hobby is burdened with yet one more counterfeit. It was not sold with any attempt to deceive. This time. >>
Why don't you go take an aspirin and relax. Not worth having a heart attack over. >>
You try telling thousands of people over the years "Sorry, but your coin is counterfeit." I have. >>
Besides obvious 1804 $1 coins and other popular known counterfeits have you seen a number of "fictional date" counterfeits?
E.g. A 1792 $1 ? A 1909 buffalo nickel? >>
Yes, quite a few. 1927 Morgan dollar. 1929 Peace dollar. 1798-CC Trade Dollar, and many, many more.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I own a few of the DC 64 Peace dollars. Love them. No real incentive to buy the 1965's. I think this effort was a stretch on his part. It happens
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
And so the hobby is burdened with yet one more counterfeit. It was not sold with any attempt to deceive. This time. >>
Why don't you go take an aspirin and relax. Not worth having a heart attack over. >>
You try telling thousands of people over the years "Sorry, but your coin is counterfeit." I have. >>
Besides obvious 1804 $1 coins and other popular known counterfeits have you seen a number of "fictional date" counterfeits?
E.g. A 1792 $1 ? A 1909 buffalo nickel? >>
Yes, quite a few. 1927 Morgan dollar. 1929 Peace dollar. 1798-CC Trade Dollar, and many, many more. >>
Telling people that their item is worthless is part of the job. If someone gets a worn-out Indian Head cent in change, and they think it is worth hundreds of dollars, sooner or later somebody is going to have to tell them the coin is only worth 25 cents. And if you work in a coin shop, that "somebody" is going to be you.
Did any of these people pay a lot for one of the fantasy-date coins ? It is one thing to be given such coin or pay just a few dollars for one. It is all together different to pay a lot of money for one.
If you are going to spend a lot of money on a diamond, or a Rolex watch, or an old car, you had better learn about the item first.
PS: The "1929" Peace Dollars were Italian-made, for what purpose I don't know - possibly to commemorate the start of the Great Depression ? They had small "reproduccion" (or similar) lettering in the top of the mound below the Eagle. The one I had would stick to a magnet. I've seen them trade in the $30-$40 range between knowledgable parties.
As I respect DC's talent, I personally think they are just plain bullion and something to deceive unknowledgable people. Even though the dates don't actually exist, to me these are just examples of counterfeiting. I don't any future for these and the high prices paid now will show loss in the years ahead. JMO
<< <i>It's a winning formula: (Can be done in multiples.)
Purchase five. Wait six months. Sell three. Keep the other two for free.
Repeat for the next release. >>
This sounds good. There are a few I missed out on and the secondary market prices tend to be fairly healthy right now. It's also good to provide a service for those that aren't able to pick them up the first time around, such as I was on a few issues.
I wasn't sure about the 1965 date at first, but as I think about it more, I think it's a fitting anniversary issue for this. I like the 1965 date in that none were ever minted with that date but there were coins minted in that year. >>
It would be more of a fitting anniversary if it was a real collectible coin. Fantasy strikes are only collectible to those that collect them. If it was a mint stike, heck yea, fantasy, not worth the excitement.
<< <i>It's a winning formula: (Can be done in multiples.)
Purchase five. Wait six months. Sell three. Keep the other two for free.
Repeat for the next release. >>
This sounds good. There are a few I missed out on and the secondary market prices tend to be fairly healthy right now. It's also good to provide a service for those that aren't able to pick them up the first time around, such as I was on a few issues.
I wasn't sure about the 1965 date at first, but as I think about it more, I think it's a fitting anniversary issue for this. I like the 1965 date in that none were ever minted with that date but there were coins minted in that year. >>
It would be more of a fitting anniversary if it was a real collectible coin. Fantasy strikes are only collectible to those that collect them. If it was a mint stike, heck yea, fantasy, not worth the excitement. >>
Same here. I'm a fan of most DC overstrikes. Not feeling it here. My opinion. I think this "anniversary" Peace would have been better suited as a silver round in the same manner as DC's 100th Anniversary of the Buffalo nickel. But I wasn't consulted. That execution was a gem.
<< <i>It's a winning formula: (Can be done in multiples.)
Purchase five. Wait six months. Sell three. Keep the other two for free.
Repeat for the next release. >>
This sounds good. There are a few I missed out on and the secondary market prices tend to be fairly healthy right now. It's also good to provide a service for those that aren't able to pick them up the first time around, such as I was on a few issues.
I wasn't sure about the 1965 date at first, but as I think about it more, I think it's a fitting anniversary issue for this. I like the 1965 date in that none were ever minted with that date but there were coins minted in that year. >>
It would be more of a fitting anniversary if it was a real collectible coin. Fantasy strikes are only collectible to those that collect them. If it was a mint stike, heck yea, fantasy, not worth the excitement. >>
That same argument can be made for all collectables, from VAMS to varieties to grade rarities to medals to Beanie Babies.
<< <i>As I respect DC's talent, I personally think they are just plain bullion and something to deceive unknowledgable people. Even though the dates don't actually exist, to me these are just examples of counterfeiting. I don't any future for these and the high prices paid now will show loss in the years ahead. JMO >>
I'm not sure if I would really consider $100 to $300 to be "high priced". But all things are relative and the market will determine future prices. No guarantees, of course.
PS: I willingly paid $600 for a type of known vintage counterfeit of an 1896-O Morgan Dollar.
<< <i>As I respect DC's talent, I personally think they are just plain bullion and something to deceive unknowledgable people. Even though the dates don't actually exist, to me these are just examples of counterfeiting. I don't any future for these and the high prices paid now will show loss in the years ahead. JMO >>
I'm not sure if I would really consider $100 to $300 to be "high priced". But all things are relative and the market will determine future prices. No guarantees, of course.
PS: I willingly paid $600 for a type of known vintage counterfeit of an 1896-O Morgan Dollar. >>
I merely speak from the level of a low budget collector.
Honestly I bet if we were to examine the collections of many of the posters we would find much "dross" amongst even US Mint issued coins, and especially those of late vintage; I daresay Dan's coins and medals have bested most recent US Mint products - or do we forget the countless millions of proof and mint sets, etc.
Another example that might be analogous to DC's work are the drawn paper money of Boggs (at least I think that is/was his name). These bring big money and though hand done are famed for their close copy of the real printed note...
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>As I respect DC's talent, I personally think they are just plain bullion and something to deceive unknowledgable people. Even though the dates don't actually exist, to me these are just examples of counterfeiting. I don't any future for these and the high prices paid now will show loss in the years ahead. JMO >>
I'm not sure if I would really consider $100 to $300 to be "high priced". But all things are relative and the market will determine future prices. No guarantees, of course.
PS: I willingly paid $600 for a type of known vintage counterfeit of an 1896-O Morgan Dollar. >>
Was it slabbed by PCGS? I understand that not every micro O Morgan was sent back to PCGS as part of their recall.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Honestly I bet if we were to examine the collections of many of the posters we would find much "dross" ........ >>
Guilty as charged.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>As I respect DC's talent, I personally think they are just plain bullion and something to deceive unknowledgable people. Even though the dates don't actually exist, to me these are just examples of counterfeiting. I don't any future for these and the high prices paid now will show loss in the years ahead. JMO >>
I'm not sure if I would really consider $100 to $300 to be "high priced". But all things are relative and the market will determine future prices. No guarantees, of course.
PS: I willingly paid $600 for a type of known vintage counterfeit of an 1896-O Morgan Dollar. >>
Was it slabbed by PCGS? I understand that not every micro O Morgan was sent back to PCGS as part of their recall. >>
It wasn't a "micro-o", but it was produced by the same maker. It was slabbed by SEGS, but I didn't care about the holder. There are still some examples extant in PCGS holders that were certified prior to the "recall", but never returned to PCGS. SEGS will currently certify them by VAM number, and they put on the labels "Not of US Mint Origin" (or something like that).
Comments
Ah, man. Were's the fun in that?!
peacockcoins
<< <i>>>>Translation: It really grinds my gears that I haven't come up with such innovative, practical and prosperity-generating ideas myself. >>
Bingo.<<<
Right!! I want to make bogus coins instead of collecting the real thing! NOT!!!
A lot of us see this as counterfeiting. And again.....why would anyone want these bogus coins! >>
Ahhhh. But what "kind" of counterfeiting?
Counterfeiting of a US Dollar which costs $125 which can be spend at a local Walmart for $1 ?
Or
Counterfeiting if a Rare Collectible Coin which never existed in the first place?
OR
Maybe Counterfeiting for the sake of Silver Bullion where the coin could be sold (technically yes) for 90% of the current cost of silver?
Or Just maybe counterfeiting with the hopes that someone will wander along and purchase one of these for millions of dollars thinking its a rare one off minting? You know, kinda like those rare Hobo Nickels that were produced by the US Mint?
Or perhaps the Hobby needs protecting so that the ultra stupid who happened to win the lottery or whose late uncle left them a fortune don't go out and spend their 401K's or inheritances on these million dollar coins?
Exactly WHAT kind of "protection" is needed here?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>>>>Translation: It really grinds my gears that I haven't come up with such innovative, practical and prosperity-generating ideas myself. >>
Bingo.<<<
Right!! I want to make bogus coins instead of collecting the real thing! NOT!!!
A lot of us see this as counterfeiting. And again.....why would anyone want these bogus coins! >>
Ahhhh. But what "kind" of counterfeiting?
Counterfeiting of a US Dollar which costs $125 which can be spend at a local Walmart for $1 ?
Or
Counterfeiting if a Rare Collectible Coin which never existed in the first place?
OR
Maybe Counterfeiting for the sake of Silver Bullion where the coin could be sold (technically yes) for 90% of the current cost of silver?
Or Just maybe counterfeiting with the hopes that someone will wander along and purchase one of these for millions of dollars thinking its a rare one off minting? You know, kinda like those rare Hobo Nickels that were produced by the US Mint?
Or perhaps the Hobby needs protecting so that the ultra stupid who happened to win the lottery or whose late uncle left them a fortune don't go out and spend their 401K's or inheritances on these million dollar coins?
Exactly WHAT kind of "protection" is needed here?
I own a few Carr pieces, but missed the 1964 Peace Dollar, so I bought the 65.
What does concern me is the number of 1964-D Peace Dollars I see on eBay that are NOT Daniel Carr issues and not the ones by Royal Oak Mint with COPY on them. The sellers never say what they are. I wonder..
<< <i>What does concern me is the number of 1964-D Peace Dollars I see on eBay that are NOT Daniel Carr issues and not the ones by Royal Oak Mint with COPY on them. The sellers never say what they are. I wonder.. >>
links? item numbers?
No bids at $20
<< <i>
Or perhaps the Hobby needs protecting so that the ultra stupid who happened to win the lottery or whose late uncle left them a fortune don't go out and spend their 401K's or inheritances on these million dollar coins?
Exactly WHAT kind of "protection" is needed here?
You sure cannot save the QVC type crowd from themselves. The 1965 dollars struck by Dan Carr are out of the league of most of the gullible types anyway.
<< <i>found one
No bids at $20 >>
Yeah. You see "Copy" anywhere? I don't. And I doubt it's a DC. So is it legal?
<< <i>
<< <i>found one
No bids at $20 >>
Yeah. You see "Copy" anywhere? I don't. And I doubt it's a DC. So is it legal? >>
Those have been around for a while. Of course, I did NOT make those. They are not over-struck, and they are not even real silver.
They are easily identifiable by:
1) Not silver.
2) Not over-struck.
3) Rough texture, especially in the centers (weak strikes on rough planchets).
4) Poorly-formed "64" date digits.
5) Design details are very mushy (not an exact match to the original Peace Dollar contours).
Note the low position of the mushy "D" mint mark.
And here is a different (presumably Chinese) one which has some similar characteristics, but note the high "D" mint mark position:
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>found one
No bids at $20 >>
Yeah. You see "Copy" anywhere? I don't. And I doubt it's a DC. So is it legal? >>
Those have been around for a while. Of course, I did NOT make those. They are not over-struck, and they are not even real silver.
They are easily identifiable by:
1) Not silver.
2) Not over-struck.
3) Rough texture, especially in the centers (weak strikes on rough planchets).
4) Poorly-formed "64" date digits.
5) Design details are very mushy (not an exact match to the original Peace Dollar contours). >>
What is your feeling on the legality? I would think they are not?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>found one
No bids at $20 >>
Yeah. You see "Copy" anywhere? I don't. And I doubt it's a DC. So is it legal? >>
Those have been around for a while. Of course, I did NOT make those. They are not over-struck, and they are not even real silver.
They are easily identifiable by:
1) Not silver.
2) Not over-struck.
3) Rough texture, especially in the centers (weak strikes on rough planchets).
4) Poorly-formed "64" date digits.
5) Design details are very mushy (not an exact match to the original Peace Dollar contours). >>
What is your feeling on the legality? I would think they are not? >>
It looks sort of like a legal-tender $1, but isn't (and never was).
If you started uttering these (spending or attempting to spend them while knowing they were not legal tender), then you could very possibly get arrested.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
What is your feeling on the legality? I would think they are not? >>
It looks sort of like a legal-tender $1, but isn't (and never was).
If you started uttering these (spending or attempting to spend them while knowing they were not legal tender), then you could very possibly get arrested. >>
So should eBay be selling them?
<< <i>Back in 1965, a lot of us collectors were wondering why the government didn't strike 1965-dated dollars in 40% silver instead. Especially since they were doing just that for Kennedy halves. The government would have made a nice profit on the seigniorage and the dollars would have circulated, just as the halves did for a few decades. >>
I believe that the answer lies in the legislation which became known as the Coinage Act of 1965.
It specifically forbid the production of ANY dollar coin, silver or not, for 5 (maybe 6) years after passage of the act.
The end result was the Eisenhower Dollar.
And to lay it to rest before anybody picks up on it, Half Dollars failed to circulate after the 1964 Half was issued. The circulated very little prior to that and simply dies after that.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>And to lay it to rest before anybody picks up on it, Half Dollars failed to circulate after the 1964 Half was issued. The circulated very little prior to that and simply dies after that. >>
Halves never circulated to the extent quarters and dimes did, but Kennedy halves did circulate after 1964. I spent and received many in change during the 1960's and 1970's. The number of circulated 1965-69 halves surviving today (and sometimes still found in rolls) testifies to their time spent in circulation.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i>
What is your feeling on the legality? I would think they are not? >>
It looks sort of like a legal-tender $1, but isn't (and never was).
If you started uttering these (spending or attempting to spend them while knowing they were not legal tender), then you could very possibly get arrested. >>
So should eBay be selling them? >>
Technically, the person creating the listing is the one that is "selling" it. eBay is the advertising venue.
There are a lot of things that are far worse that shouldn't be advertised in my opinion, like any products containing addictive substances such as nicotene or aspartame.
But to answer your question, eBay's own rules seem to indicate that these are a type of "prohibited item". But many things about eBay don't make a lot of sense.
straight auction with reserve
seller has 4 for sale BUT, looks like he has sold the '64-D's, his description is a mess, but his title states 'High Grade', description says 'bulk handled'
<< <i>Well, I guess we'll see well accepted they are to buyers. Looks like there's 2 on the 'bay now, one an auction, 3 days, with reserve, already at $127.50, reserve not met, and one for a flat BIN of $199
straight auction with reserve
seller has 4 for sale BUT, looks like he has sold the '64-D's, his description is a mess, but his title states 'High Grade', description says 'bulk handled' >>
But those are "real" ones. I think it's a safe bet that some fool is going to confuse the other crap with the DC issues. I don't think eBay should have those junk things. Yeah, yeah, caveat emptor but it can damage the hobby, or so think I.
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, I guess we'll see well accepted they are to buyers. Looks like there's 2 on the 'bay now, one an auction, 3 days, with reserve, already at $127.50, reserve not met, and one for a flat BIN of $199
straight auction with reserve
seller has 4 for sale BUT, looks like he has sold the '64-D's, his description is a mess, but his title states 'High Grade', description says 'bulk handled' >>
But those are "real" ones. I think it's a safe bet that some fool is going to confuse the other crap with the DC issues. I don't think eBay should have those junk things. Yeah, yeah, caveat emptor but it can damage the hobby, or so think I. >>
Well, it does look like some fool is buying this one, but it DOES say it is NOT the Carr Peace dollar. Is there any doubt this is not even made of silver, where the seller states "IT WEIGHS A LITTLE LESS THAN A SILVER DOLLAR. LOOKS AND FEELS LIKE A REAL SILVER DOLLAR."???
<< <i>
<< <i>And to lay it to rest before anybody picks up on it, Half Dollars failed to circulate after the 1964 Half was issued. The circulated very little prior to that and simply dies after that. >>
Halves never circulated to the extent quarters and dimes did, but Kennedy halves did circulate after 1964. I spent and received many in change during the 1960's and 1970's. The number of circulated 1965-69 halves surviving today (and sometimes still found in rolls) testifies to their time spent in circulation. >>
That was my experience back then. Halves didn't circulate widely, but they did circulate.
<< <i>
<< <i>And to lay it to rest before anybody picks up on it, Half Dollars failed to circulate after the 1964 Half was issued. The circulated very little prior to that and simply dies after that. >>
Halves never circulated to the extent quarters and dimes did, but Kennedy halves did circulate after 1964. I spent and received many in change during the 1960's and 1970's. The number of circulated 1965-69 halves surviving today (and sometimes still found in rolls) testifies to their time spent in circulation. >>
Half Dollars circulated in Slot machines and gambling tables where they are still used today.
Occasionally, some showed up in circulation but I had never experienced seeing them in a cash drawer because I was looking. Half's were returned to the bank the exact same way that dollars are today.
And that's my experience.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>And to lay it to rest before anybody picks up on it, Half Dollars failed to circulate after the 1964 Half was issued. The circulated very little prior to that and simply dies after that. >>
Halves never circulated to the extent quarters and dimes did, but Kennedy halves did circulate after 1964. I spent and received many in change during the 1960's and 1970's. The number of circulated 1965-69 halves surviving today (and sometimes still found in rolls) testifies to their time spent in circulation. >>
Half Dollars circulated in Slot machines and gambling tables where they are still used today.
Occasionally, some showed up in circulation but I had never experienced seeing them in a cash drawer because I was looking. Half's were returned to the bank the exact same way that dollars are today.
And that's my experience. >>
I have seen coins used in a casino just one time, in the UP of Michigan last summer. Otherwise they are all coinless now. That particular casino had well maintained older machines. I did like getting coins in payouts, the real clinking of coins hitting the tray is a much more pleasant sound than that stupid canned noise in the coinless places.
As an aside, I do think these do bear some analogy to Warhol & if anything go "one up" on presenting the
original designs. The 1964, but especially the Oregon Trail were IMO masterful.
With regards to the latter, I have an MS65 extremely well struck 1936-S that might even be undergraded and
does not hold a candle to Dan's coin.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, I guess we'll see well accepted they are to buyers. Looks like there's 2 on the 'bay now, one an auction, 3 days, with reserve, already at $127.50, reserve not met, and one for a flat BIN of $199
straight auction with reserve
seller has 4 for sale BUT, looks like he has sold the '64-D's, his description is a mess, but his title states 'High Grade', description says 'bulk handled' >>
But those are "real" ones. I think it's a safe bet that some fool is going to confuse the other crap with the DC issues. I don't think eBay should have those junk things. Yeah, yeah, caveat emptor but it can damage the hobby, or so think I. >>
Well, it does look like some fool is buying this one, but it DOES say it is NOT the Carr Peace dollar. Is there any doubt this is not even made of silver, where the seller states "IT WEIGHS A LITTLE LESS THAN A SILVER DOLLAR. LOOKS AND FEELS LIKE A REAL SILVER DOLLAR."??? >>
And so the hobby is burdened with yet one more counterfeit. It was not sold with any attempt to deceive. This time.
<< <i>
And so the hobby is burdened with yet one more counterfeit. It was not sold with any attempt to deceive. This time. >>
Why don't you go take an aspirin and relax. Not worth having a heart attack over.
"Psst. Ya wanna buy a real 1964-D Peace Dollar? Yeah, it's real and it's really worth $100,000 but you can have it for $500."
Not going to happen.
So, let's try this scenario instead:
"Psst. Ya wanna buy a real 1964-D Peace Dollar? Yeah, it's real and it's really worth $100,000 but you can have it for $20,000."
Uh huh. Not going to happen unless the buyer is a flaming moron.
Methinks thou dost protest too much.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>
And so the hobby is burdened with yet one more counterfeit. It was not sold with any attempt to deceive. This time. >>
Why don't you go take an aspirin and relax. Not worth having a heart attack over. >>
You try telling thousands of people over the years "Sorry, but your coin is counterfeit." I have.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
And so the hobby is burdened with yet one more counterfeit. It was not sold with any attempt to deceive. This time. >>
Why don't you go take an aspirin and relax. Not worth having a heart attack over. >>
You try telling thousands of people over the years "Sorry, but your coin is counterfeit." I have. >>
Which is the job Tom.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
And so the hobby is burdened with yet one more counterfeit. It was not sold with any attempt to deceive. This time. >>
Why don't you go take an aspirin and relax. Not worth having a heart attack over. >>
You try telling thousands of people over the years "Sorry, but your coin is counterfeit." I have. >>
Besides obvious 1804 $1 coins and other popular known counterfeits have you seen a number of "fictional date" counterfeits?
E.g. A 1792 $1 ? A 1909 buffalo nickel?
<< <i>It's a winning formula:
(Can be done in multiples.)
Purchase five. Wait six months. Sell three. Keep the other two for free.
Repeat for the next release. >>
This sounds good. There are a few I missed out on and the secondary market prices tend to be fairly healthy right now. It's also good to provide a service for those that aren't able to pick them up the first time around, such as I was on a few issues.
I wasn't sure about the 1965 date at first, but as I think about it more, I think it's a fitting anniversary issue for this. I like the 1965 date in that none were ever minted with that date but there were coins minted in that year.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
And so the hobby is burdened with yet one more counterfeit. It was not sold with any attempt to deceive. This time. >>
Why don't you go take an aspirin and relax. Not worth having a heart attack over. >>
You try telling thousands of people over the years "Sorry, but your coin is counterfeit." I have. >>
Besides obvious 1804 $1 coins and other popular known counterfeits have you seen a number of "fictional date" counterfeits?
E.g. A 1792 $1 ? A 1909 buffalo nickel? >>
Yes, quite a few. 1927 Morgan dollar. 1929 Peace dollar. 1798-CC Trade Dollar, and many, many more.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
And so the hobby is burdened with yet one more counterfeit. It was not sold with any attempt to deceive. This time. >>
Why don't you go take an aspirin and relax. Not worth having a heart attack over. >>
You try telling thousands of people over the years "Sorry, but your coin is counterfeit." I have. >>
Besides obvious 1804 $1 coins and other popular known counterfeits have you seen a number of "fictional date" counterfeits?
E.g. A 1792 $1 ? A 1909 buffalo nickel? >>
Yes, quite a few. 1927 Morgan dollar. 1929 Peace dollar. 1798-CC Trade Dollar, and many, many more. >>
Telling people that their item is worthless is part of the job. If someone gets a worn-out Indian Head cent in change,
and they think it is worth hundreds of dollars, sooner or later somebody is going to have to tell them the coin is only worth 25 cents.
And if you work in a coin shop, that "somebody" is going to be you.
Did any of these people pay a lot for one of the fantasy-date coins ?
It is one thing to be given such coin or pay just a few dollars for one.
It is all together different to pay a lot of money for one.
If you are going to spend a lot of money on a diamond, or a Rolex watch, or an old car, you had better learn about the item first.
PS:
The "1929" Peace Dollars were Italian-made, for what purpose I don't know - possibly to commemorate the start of the Great Depression ?
They had small "reproduccion" (or similar) lettering in the top of the mound below the Eagle. The one I had would stick to a magnet.
I've seen them trade in the $30-$40 range between knowledgable parties.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
<< <i>
<< <i>It's a winning formula:
(Can be done in multiples.)
Purchase five. Wait six months. Sell three. Keep the other two for free.
Repeat for the next release. >>
This sounds good. There are a few I missed out on and the secondary market prices tend to be fairly healthy right now. It's also good to provide a service for those that aren't able to pick them up the first time around, such as I was on a few issues.
I wasn't sure about the 1965 date at first, but as I think about it more, I think it's a fitting anniversary issue for this. I like the 1965 date in that none were ever minted with that date but there were coins minted in that year. >>
It would be more of a fitting anniversary if it was a real collectible coin. Fantasy strikes are only collectible to those that collect them. If it was a mint stike, heck yea, fantasy, not worth the excitement.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's a winning formula:
(Can be done in multiples.)
Purchase five. Wait six months. Sell three. Keep the other two for free.
Repeat for the next release. >>
This sounds good. There are a few I missed out on and the secondary market prices tend to be fairly healthy right now. It's also good to provide a service for those that aren't able to pick them up the first time around, such as I was on a few issues.
I wasn't sure about the 1965 date at first, but as I think about it more, I think it's a fitting anniversary issue for this. I like the 1965 date in that none were ever minted with that date but there were coins minted in that year. >>
It would be more of a fitting anniversary if it was a real collectible coin. Fantasy strikes are only collectible to those that collect them. If it was a mint stike, heck yea, fantasy, not worth the excitement. >>
Same here. I'm a fan of most DC overstrikes. Not feeling it here. My opinion. I think this "anniversary" Peace would have been better suited as a silver round in the same manner as DC's 100th Anniversary of the Buffalo nickel. But I wasn't consulted.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's a winning formula:
(Can be done in multiples.)
Purchase five. Wait six months. Sell three. Keep the other two for free.
Repeat for the next release. >>
This sounds good. There are a few I missed out on and the secondary market prices tend to be fairly healthy right now. It's also good to provide a service for those that aren't able to pick them up the first time around, such as I was on a few issues.
I wasn't sure about the 1965 date at first, but as I think about it more, I think it's a fitting anniversary issue for this. I like the 1965 date in that none were ever minted with that date but there were coins minted in that year. >>
It would be more of a fitting anniversary if it was a real collectible coin. Fantasy strikes are only collectible to those that collect them. If it was a mint stike, heck yea, fantasy, not worth the excitement. >>
That same argument can be made for all collectables, from VAMS to varieties to grade rarities to medals to Beanie Babies.
peacockcoins
<< <i>As I respect DC's talent, I personally think they are just plain bullion and something to deceive unknowledgable people. Even though the dates don't actually exist, to me these are just examples of counterfeiting. I don't any future for these and the high prices paid now will show loss in the years ahead. JMO >>
I'm not sure if I would really consider $100 to $300 to be "high priced".
But all things are relative and the market will determine future prices.
No guarantees, of course.
PS:
I willingly paid $600 for a type of known vintage counterfeit of an 1896-O Morgan Dollar.
<< <i>
<< <i>As I respect DC's talent, I personally think they are just plain bullion and something to deceive unknowledgable people. Even though the dates don't actually exist, to me these are just examples of counterfeiting. I don't any future for these and the high prices paid now will show loss in the years ahead. JMO >>
I'm not sure if I would really consider $100 to $300 to be "high priced".
But all things are relative and the market will determine future prices.
No guarantees, of course.
PS:
I willingly paid $600 for a type of known vintage counterfeit of an 1896-O Morgan Dollar. >>
I merely speak from the level of a low budget collector.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
Another example that might be analogous to DC's work are the drawn paper money of Boggs (at least I think that is/was his name). These bring big money and though hand done are famed for their close copy of the real printed note...
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>
<< <i>As I respect DC's talent, I personally think they are just plain bullion and something to deceive unknowledgable people. Even though the dates don't actually exist, to me these are just examples of counterfeiting. I don't any future for these and the high prices paid now will show loss in the years ahead. JMO >>
I'm not sure if I would really consider $100 to $300 to be "high priced".
But all things are relative and the market will determine future prices.
No guarantees, of course.
PS:
I willingly paid $600 for a type of known vintage counterfeit of an 1896-O Morgan Dollar. >>
Was it slabbed by PCGS? I understand that not every micro O Morgan was sent back to PCGS as part of their recall.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Honestly I bet if we were to examine the collections of many of the posters we would find much "dross" ........ >>
Guilty as charged.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>As I respect DC's talent, I personally think they are just plain bullion and something to deceive unknowledgable people. Even though the dates don't actually exist, to me these are just examples of counterfeiting. I don't any future for these and the high prices paid now will show loss in the years ahead. JMO >>
I'm not sure if I would really consider $100 to $300 to be "high priced".
But all things are relative and the market will determine future prices.
No guarantees, of course.
PS:
I willingly paid $600 for a type of known vintage counterfeit of an 1896-O Morgan Dollar. >>
Was it slabbed by PCGS? I understand that not every micro O Morgan was sent back to PCGS as part of their recall. >>
It wasn't a "micro-o", but it was produced by the same maker.
It was slabbed by SEGS, but I didn't care about the holder.
There are still some examples extant in PCGS holders that were certified prior to the "recall", but never returned to PCGS.
SEGS will currently certify them by VAM number, and they put on the labels "Not of US Mint Origin" (or something like that).
That is shameful!
peacockcoins