2009 Copper cents in 2015 Redbook - A new modern rarity?

Manorcourtman

Listed at $10 in MS65 in the new 2015 Redbook. Mintage also listed at 784,614. Anyone else see a serious run up coming in prices of the 2009 Mint sets? These were only sold in the 09 Mint sets. Only the 1909-S VDB has a lower mintage in the entire series. I realize its apples to oranges (09-s VDB vs. 2009) but this may be a big mover in the coming years. Thoughts?

FullStrike

If the ratio of sellers to buyers ever drops from 500 : 1.

Maybe.

joeykoins

Yes, I too agree on the sudden upsurge of these small sleepers! The mintage would be obviously telling us that, like you pointed out. Also, keep in mind the error/variety aspect of the 2009 Bicentennials as well. Particularly, the " Formative Years" series. I know this also can be an "apples to oranges" issue too. Your right, these copper 2009 cents will rise even more in price in the near future! All because of the mintage #'s. -joey

jessewvu

Is that total mintage for the year, for all varieties, or number of mint sets sold?

joeykoins

I believe, it's total mint sets minted, not sold? The ones with the copper only!-joey

fivecents

I hope these rise in price because I bought a bunch from the mint. The prices have steadily dropped over the years. I saw potential of these sets in 2009. Unfortunately the market did not agree. Having these in the redbook will be a big shot in the arm.

crypto79

You guys realize that 800,000 is a lot of pennies right? There are maybe 5k-10k people who collect them plus a few hundred hoarders. I see these getting harder to sell not easier and certainly not escalating in price.

Onedollarnohollar

I'm not too sure about the 2009 copper cents becoming much more than a novelty (copper content only) because the 1909 s vdb's were circulated and were more of a challenge to find.

The 2009 coppers are neatly packaged in government display packaging and one simply has to purchase them from a dealer or online. There is no treasure hunt involved.

The doubled dies in the formative series, however, are worthwhile chasing and the only challenge for collectors. Errors can be found in the proof and satin finishes (copper) or in the

business strikes (Lp2 and bank boxes). If you want "future values" (and aren't collecting them already) I would direct you to the doubled die varieties. The Pro Red Book 5th Edition has

them featured (with a few pictured) and the pending CPG has already issued variety numbers for several of them.

19Lyds

<< <i>You guys realize that 800,000 is a lot of pennies right? There are maybe 5k-10k people who collect them plus a few hundred hoarders. I see these getting harder to sell not easier and certainly not escalating in price. >>

Now Now.

Folks today seem "fixated" on low mintage numbers without truly "qualifying" the low mintage numbers vs the "popularity" of some coins.

The 09-SVDB definitely had low mintage numbers but IIRC, those mintages were released "after the fact" meaning, these were not "readily available". As such, many floated around in circulation between San Francisco and the Mid West and East Coast which meant that finding coins today that grade MS65 is a totally different animal than finding one of the 2009-P or D, copper coins. All one has to do, is just purchase a mint set at whatever the current market price might be. Today they are just a couple of bucks over their original issue price.

I simply DO NOT see these coins getting a pricing boost due to being listed in the redbook especially since the only way to determine their actual composition is "if they are in a mint set" OR "a proof set" Remember, the Proof Coins, both standard proof and silver proof sets, were the original 95% copper composition as well.

To that end, it kinda bumps the 784,614 numbers a bit composition wise.

ernie11

I think that listing this mintage for the first time in the Red Book will have a boost effect, as those in the general collecting community who weren't aware of it will now know about it. I don't think the boost will be drastic, though - while a 784,000 mintage for a Lincoln cent is a very low mintage, the survival rate is essentially 100%.

Bullsitter

The '09-S VDB was circulated, the 2009s are all MS in plastic. I see no huge increase in these.

ricko

I do not believe these cents will see any real value increase. That is a huge number, especially when the collector base is considered. No, not a rarity at all. Cheers, RickO

Dentuck

Maybe we should encourage people to hoard them by buying up the Mint sets,
cracking out the cents, and saving them in rolls.

291fifth

784,614 struck.

Virtually all still exist in Mint State condition.

Not Rare. Not scarce.

Visually they are little different from the regular issue.

Are there more than 784,614 collectors who HAVE to own them?

joeykoins

784,614 YES! but wait a minute, when graded in such a high grade EX:68 or 69. How many of these low mintage treasures just got even lower when it comes back that high of a grade? The result, if the grade does make it that high, you now have a coin that's low in mintage already but now you have maybe the only few 68's or 69's, or maybe even a 70! Kinda makes that 784,614 dwindle down to close to 0 mintage right?-joey

291fifth

<< <i>784,614 YES! but wait a minute, when graded in such a high grade EX:68 or 69. How many of these low mintage treasures just got even lower when it comes back that high of a grade? The result, if the grade does make it that high, you now have a coin that's low in mintage already but now you have maybe the only few 68's or 69's, or maybe even a 70! Kinda makes that 784,614 dwindle down to close to 0 mintage right?-joey >>



But just how many registry set collectors are there who will pay stupid premiums for coins with minor grade differences? Further, just think of how much money would be wasted on slabbing fees by people trying to get the treasured ultra-high grades.

braddick

Plus, these 2009 copper cents look exactly like the billions that are not copper.

The 1909-S VDB is easily spotted.

joeykoins

<< <i>Plus, these 2009 copper cents look exactly like the billions that are not copper.

The 1909-S VDB is easily spotted. >>

Your right, that is odd that you can't really tell the difference. Why is that?

Overdate

I think a better comparison is with the 1982 cents, which were also struck in the same two metallic compositions. High-grade specimens of each type are in demand for registry sets, but many people collecting cents from circulation don't know or don't care about the difference.

The 2009 bronze cents do have two advantages over their 1982 counterparts. One is that each 2009 bronze cent is a type coin, which will be necessary to complete any 21st century type set. A modern U.S. type coin with a mintage of 784K is nothing to sneeze at (especially since sneezing might damage the surface).

The other advantage is that the 2009 bronze cents from mint sets are all "satin finish", which is increasingly being recognized as a distinct category of its own, separate from regular coins struck from circulation.

BillJones

People who concentrate on modern coins don't know what true rarity is. If the mintage of these 2009 mint sets is 784,614, virtually all of those coins still exist and most of them are high grade. Pick just about any issue from the 19th century, look at the mintage and then assume that at 95% of those coins are gone, and only a small number of those are in Mint State.

Hundreds of thousands is a lot of coins, and if you limit to market to TRUE collectors, not hoarders, demand is not that great. Hoarders and speculators might drive up prices for a while, but it won't last. Most of the people who get caught up in that frenzy pay high prices and regret it later. I don't see the 2009 mint sets as a great "investment opportunity."

telephoto1

If that group of 784,000 coins were all strictly made for circulation and disseminated through normal banking channels, etc. then you'd potentially have something there...but the fact that these are all mint set coins -and therefore virtually all of them will remain in mint state condition for quite some time- makes them common enough to stay in the doldrums for the foreseeable future.

Overdate

The bronze cents are not the only source of demand for 2009 mint sets. The majority of the demand is likely from people who collect each year's annual mint set and have no intention of breaking up their sets for the individual coins. This leaves far fewer than 784k of each type available for cent and type collectors.

An interesting comparison is the mint-set-only 1996-W Roosevelt dime. About 1.4 million were made - double the amount of each 2009 bronze cent design - and they currently sell for $13 and up.

pitboss

You also have the error coins factor.

Error coin enthusiasts have been buying these up to search them for the 09 errors also.

If they don't find errors they are getting mixed in with the regular pennies.

I know because i am one of them that has done this and have looked at a lot of them.

19Lyds

<< <i>Maybe we should encourage people to hoard them by buying up the Mint sets,
cracking out the cents, and saving them in rolls. >>

The only way this would change the facts would be if 50 to 75% of the coins were lost due to some natural disaster.
The bottom line is that all 784,000 (each) are still around and easily obtainable.

19Lyds

<< <i>784,614 YES! but wait a minute, when graded in such a high grade EX:68 or 69. How many of these low mintage treasures just got even lower when it comes back that high of a grade? The result, if the grade does make it that high, you now have a coin that's low in mintage already but now you have maybe the only few 68's or 69's, or maybe even a 70! Kinda makes that 784,614 dwindle down to close to 0 mintage right?-joey >>

Kinda.

We'll have to wait for the MS69 Kennedy's to come out of the closet!

Meaning, what you've described has nothing to do with the composition as it has to do with the state of preservation which is no different than any other modern coin.

19Lyds

<< <i>You also have the error coins factor.

Error coin enthusiasts have been buying these up to search them for the 09 errors also.

If they don't find errors they are getting mixed in with the regular pennies.

I know because i am one of them that has done this and have looked at a lot of them. >>

Yes, you have, BUT, the coins you are searching are not the 95% Copper coins which is what the thread is about. Your coins are the standard copper-plated zinc cored cents which is what came in the rolls purchased from the US Mint.

pitboss

<< <i>

<< <i>You also have the error coins factor.

Error coin enthusiasts have been buying these up to search them for the 09 errors also.

If they don't find errors they are getting mixed in with the regular pennies.

I know because i am one of them that has done this and have looked at a lot of them. >>

Yes, you have, BUT, the coins you are searching are not the 95% Copper coins which is what the thread is about. Your coins are the standard copper-plated zinc cored cents which is what came in the rolls purchased from the US Mint. >>



I am referring to the ones that came in the sets I bought to check for errors. I had not use for the coins after I checked them for errors. It is not a big amount, about 100 sets.

Onedollarnohollar

<< <i> BUT, the coins you are searching are not the 95% Copper coins which is what the thread is about. >>



There are doubled dies in the satin and proof 95% coppers. These are very desirable to the variety collector because of the limited coppers produced.

I have searched many sets for these errors and have found very few. I don't break the sets up however. If they don't contain any errors they are re-sold as a complete mint product,

usually at a slight loss or break even price.

The Lp2 mint sets and the bank boxes are business strikes yielding the bulk of the errors. If you haven't visited Wexler's site check it out.

BTW 19Lyds...aren't you credited by Crawford as having discovered the CDDR-006 / aka the WDDR-007 if not others?

Overdate

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>You also have the error coins factor.

Error coin enthusiasts have been buying these up to search them for the 09 errors also.

If they don't find errors they are getting mixed in with the regular pennies.

I know because i am one of them that has done this and have looked at a lot of them. >>

Yes, you have, BUT, the coins you are searching are not the 95% Copper coins which is what the thread is about. Your coins are the standard copper-plated zinc cored cents which is what came in the rolls purchased from the US Mint. >>


I am referring to the ones that came in the sets I bought to check for errors. I had not use for the coins after I checked them for errors. It is not a big amount, about 100 sets. >>


Individual raw 2009 bronze cents are bringing $4 to $5 each including shipping on eBay. They're worth saving rather than spending even if they don't contain errors.

pitboss

True but I was not thinking of that at the time. I just wanted the errors.

joeykoins

We are all talking low mintage of the " copper " cents, imagine (hoping) if copper was to surge (like it has in the near past) up in price? That would put a whole new twist on this conversation. The demand would even be more tantalizing! -joey