Post your 1848-D half eagles if you have one!!

johnny54321

All of these coins are major components to my gold type set, and have all been given a clean bill of health by top tpgs.....But since the last two nicely toned gold coins I posted got the "it must be doctored" resounding echo from the forum, I though I should post all of my crusty gold for determination



First is an Ex PCGS AU-55 indian quarter eagle that I have in my type set. Orange peel color toned with some light gray-blue iridescent toning(very light)
[URL=http://s44.photobucket.com/user/johnny54321/media/1912indian250_obv.jpg.html][/URL]
[URL=http://s44.photobucket.com/user/johnny54321/media/1912indian250_rev.jpg.html][/URL]

2nd is a PCGS graded AU50 1848-D coin (a major rarity in this grade with a solid strike). I just fell in love with the coin, and couldn't find anything like it that was semi-affordable. This coin was graded recently by PCGS, so I expect it went through the sniffer. I don't have this in hand yet, but the seller assures me that there is abundant luster in the fields. There is some nice coppery toning on the front, and more intense red toning on the back with some iridescent grey blue highlights on the wings and upper field.
[URL=http://s44.photobucket.com/user/johnny54321/media/slab-1.png.html][/URL]
[URL=http://s44.photobucket.com/user/johnny54321/media/48d_obv.jpg.html][/URL]
[URL=http://s44.photobucket.com/user/johnny54321/media/48d_rev.jpg.html][/URL]

3rd we have a nice 8 escudo from Columbia. This has some light orange peel toning, with some areas of light gray blue toning on the reverse.
[URL=http://s44.photobucket.com/user/johnny54321/media/8esc_obv3-1.jpg.html][/URL]
[URL=http://s44.photobucket.com/user/johnny54321/media/8esc_rev2.jpg.html][/URL]

Last, I have an apricot toned $3 gold piece....I doubt there is anything suspicious going on, but doesn't hurt to double check.
[URL=http://s44.photobucket.com/user/johnny54321/media/3dollar1-1.jpg.html][/URL]
[URL=http://s44.photobucket.com/user/johnny54321/media/3dollar2-1.jpg.html][/URL]

commoncents05

<< <i>This coin was graded recently by PCGS, so I expect it went through the sniffer. >>



This is an incorrect assumption. Only coins sent in for SecurePlus grading go through the sniffer.

-Paul

johnny54321

Ok, fair enough....so what are your thoughts on the coins?

ricko

Nice looking gold coins.... Cheers, RickO

kaz

they look like nice old gold to me.

GeorgeKellogg

I like the 1848-D half eagle photos. What a great strike! Let us know how it looks in hand. Congratulations!

johnny54321

Thanks....so would anyone question the toning on the 1848-D as being artificial(iodine or putty)? I debated over this purchase a lot, because in many ways, the stars appear to align on this piece....but you guys got me all shook up over potential foul play on my 1926 sesqui piece....The other forums don't even consider that when commenting on the coin, so this forum obviously has finely tuned honing skills for detecting funny business.

When this piece came into focus, I did some research on Dahlonega gold, and I think I may have found a major rarity....though I need you folks to help determine if mine qualifies based on Doug's comments. I purchased this from David Lawrence. My research led me to Doug Winter's commentary on the 1848-D gold coin....and although this purchase ranks 4th as my most valuable coin, I believe it could be the rarest coin I own condition based.

Here is Doug's commentary off of coinfacts:

"The 1848-D is often regarded as one of the more common Dahlonega half eagles. This is most definitely not the case as it is actually quite scarce in any grade and very rare in high grades.

The 1848-D half eagle is a scarce and undervalued issue. Most grade Very Fine to Extremely Fine. Any coin grading About Uncirculated is rare and any About Uncirculated example with good eye appeal is very rare. In Mint State, the 1848-D half eagle is extremely rare.

STRIKE: The quality of strike depends on which die variety a specific coin is. Many examples are very poorly struck and show pronounced flatness at the obverse center and heavy die swelling. Others have clashmarks at the mouth of Liberty and behind the head and weakness on the neck feathers of the eagle. The reverse is generally better struck, even on the coins which show extreme weakness on the obverse. Any example with a sharp overall strike is very rare. For more information on strike, refer to Die Varieties below.

SURFACES: Most 1848-D half eagles have numerous abrasions on the surfaces. This is one of the most difficult Dahlonega half eagles to locate with clean fields. Examples exist with matte-like surfaces from exposure to seawater. These coins have Mint State sharpness but are generally accorded the same value as an Extremely Fine coin with original surfaces.

LUSTER: This date shows below average quality luster. On the few original, higher grade coins that exist, the luster is usually frosty in its texture. On the typical piece the luster is impaired and has a slightly grainy texture.

COLORATION: Due to the fact that so many have been cleaned, it is very difficult to find an 1848-D half eagle with pleasing natural coloration. The few original pieces which exist have darker green-gold or orange-gold hues.

EYE APPEAL: The 1848-D is one of the most difficult Dahlonega half eagles to locate with good eye appeal. Many are very poorly struck and most show serious, detracting abrasions. A piece with good eye appeal is legitimately rare and it deserves to sell for a significant premium over a typical example.

PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS: The 1848-D half eagle is actually one of the hardest Dahlonega issues of any denomination to locate with good eye appeal. Most are either poorly struck or have been cleaned at one time. I cannot recall having seen more than two or three pieces that I felt were genuinely attractive and have seen only one (the Duke's Creek coin) that I felt was unquestionably Uncirculated.

So with all that said:
How does this rank in original surfaces compared to other 48-Ds?
How does it rank in strike quality?
How does it rank in overall eye appeal department?

The coin isn't perfect, it obviously has quite a few abrasions Though I wouldn't call the strike on mine STRONG, it does appear pretty solid and even throughout. Would it overall meet Dougs criteria as a very rare piece given the criteria of strike, originality and eye appeal?

Here are comparisons to the last 3 examples that sold on heritage. one au-50 one 55 and one 55 cac(the 55 CAC is awesome). They all have some severe strike weaknesses though in certain areas. As a matter of fact, nearly ALL of the AU specimens in the auction archives have these type of strike weaknesses!
[URL="http://s44.photobucket.com/user/johnny54321/media/comparison.png.html][/URL]

steveben

the 48-D is very nice.

Boosibri

Just be aware that the seller of that 48-D sends just about everything to CAC and this coin is not CAC'd. When you get the coin in hand I would look closely at the depth of that toning to see if there are layers of tone or is it superficial. When I saw the coin listed I didn't like it as something about the toning worried me but it could just be the scan.

ACop

<< <i>Just be aware that the seller of that 48-D sends just about everything to CAC and this coin is not CAC'd. When you get the coin in hand I would look closely at the depth of that toning to see if there are layers of tone or is it superficial. When I saw the coin listed I didn't like it as something about the toning worried me but it could just be the scan. >>



Probably the divot between the stars at 7oclock?

Boosibri

<< <i>

<< <i>Just be aware that the seller of that 48-D sends just about everything to CAC and this coin is not CAC'd. When you get the coin in hand I would look closely at the depth of that toning to see if there are layers of tone or is it superficial. When I saw the coin listed I didn't like it as something about the toning worried me but it could just be the scan. >>



Probably the divot between the stars at 7oclock? >>



I don't know. I'm skeptical of the color but without having it in hand who knows. There is no dirt or material in any of the devices yet the toning is deep suggesting long term storage in an envelope of leather pouch. Typically I would expect some crust, not just color in such a circumstance. Every wonderfully toned gold coin that I own has some grit to it no matter if it is in high AU. I don't see that here.

Sorry to be negative, just my opinion. I passed on this coin from the photos despite it being a date I'm after.

Here are three coins to compare against, all in AU55 CAC (46 is gold) with deep natural toning. Hope that is helpful when you compare the coin in hand.

GeorgeKellogg

Nothing beats seeing the coin in hand. I think the 1848-D $5 is very attractive (from the photo) and would have no qualms about having the coin sent on approval (which is my typical way of buying through the mail).

If this piece turns out to be all that you expect it to be, I think you have made a major find. The coin is more attractive than my 1848-D half eagle and I have been collecting Dahlonega coins since 1982.

I believe that with PCGS's concern about doctoring, if they had any concerns about the coin, they could have run it through the sniffer. I recall reading that they have the option of running any coin through the sniffer on a case-by-case basis, although it's always done on Secure Plus submissions. I also recall that they stated that they may eventually put all submissions through the sniffer.

If this coin looks as nice in hand as it does in the photo, I can't imagine CAC not giving it a sticker.

johnny54321

DavidLawrences photos are pretty representative of the coin as far as color, detail, and surface abrasions are, but his photos tell me nothing about luster......so I take there word that this coin is lustrous, but they allow me to return it if it isn't. I paid $3125 for the coin, which I thought was fair. The last couple of auctions had it sell 3300 for the 50 4100 for the 55 and 4400 for the 55CAC.

Funny, looking through the archive, the only one well struck is in an AU55 ICG slab.....but it certainly garnished a premium. Sold for 5200....even at AU55 it has much stronger details than mine....Im sure it would have brought a lot more in a PCGS slab.

steveben

<< <i>...I take there word that this coin is lustrous, but they allow me to return it if it isn't. >>



i think that's a good deciding factor. if those protected areas aren't frosty and there's no cartwheel luster at all...pass.

DLRC's photos tend to exaggerate the color a bit. i would expect the coin to be a little less intense in hand.

i do know of coins DLRC has not sent into for CAC review. so, it's possible it hasn't been reviewed, in that holder.

the "divots" are not a problem for me on this coin. could they be planchet flaws or is it pmd? either way, they do affect the value because you'd certainly pay more for a similar piece without them. however, if they are planchet flaws...could that also be an explanation for the color? i defer to an expert.

steveben

<< <i>
DLRC's photos tend to exaggerate the color a bit. i would expect the coin to be a little less intense in hand. >>



nothing against them, btw...everyone photos differently and i didn't mean to suggest they are are doing anything wrong.

johnny54321

The 48-D will be here today!! oh happy happy!! Yeah, Lawrences phots are decent, and I think they capture the color in the most color intensive light, but they really give you no indication as to the quality of the luster. They should take some tips from heritage, and take 2 sets of pics with different lighting, so they can capture all the details, color and luster.

Boosibri

<< <i>The 48-D will be here today!! oh happy happy!! Yeah, Lawrences phots are decent, and I think they capture the color in the most color intensive light, but they really give you no indication as to the quality of the luster. They should take some tips from heritage, and take 2 sets of pics with different lighting, so they can capture all the details, color and luster. >>



I really hope it's a nice coin. Hope you post pics if you decide to keep it.

johnny54321

You have some really nice coins Boosibri. I really love the 1848-C, and think it would make a good match with my 1848-D...:-) The 1859 you have is a nice coin, but it doesnt have the look that I go for, faded mustard yellow. I prefer the orange peel texture and dark burnt auburn( like your 48-C) over crusty browns and mustard colors....but that's just me

steveben

<< <i>You have some really nice coins Boosibri. I really love the 1848-C, and think it would make a good match with my 1848-D...:-) >>



actually, his 48-C would be a better match for *my* 48-D. ;-)

jmski52

Consider me a fan of that 8 escudo!

johnny54321

"actually, his 48-C would be a better match for *my* 48-D. ;-) "

This response absolutely mandates that you post a picture!! ;-)

GeorgeKellogg

Did the 1848-D half eagle arrive? I'm anxious to hear how it looks in hand.

Boosibri

<< <i>Did the 1848-D half eagle arrive? I'm anxious to hear how it looks in hand. >>



Bump for a response from the OP

kaz

And bump again.

Boosibri

Another bump for a response from the OP

johnny54321

Sorry, it arrived later than expected. It looks decent in hand, though I do think it had an ancient light cleaning. No hairlines, just has a bit of a gloss to it. Luster is good on the reverse, but somewhat lacking on the obverse(just a tiny bit around each star and around the date). I really like it, though it may not appeal to the hardcore originalists.

Catbert

<< <i>Sorry, it arrived later than expected. It looks decent in hand, though I do think it had an ancient light cleaning. No hairlines, just has a bit of a gloss to it. Luster is good on the reverse, but somewhat lacking on the obverse(just a tiny bit around each star and around the date). I really like it, though it may not appeal to the hardcore originalists. >>



Glad you like it! That is good.

While I know you were soliciting feedback by posting this thread, don't forget that what goes into your collection is your decision! Don't let the chattering class here decide for you whether you'll be happy or not with your new piece.

GeorgeKellogg

<< <i>Sorry, it arrived later than expected. It looks decent in hand, though I do think it had an ancient light cleaning. No hairlines, just has a bit of a gloss to it. Luster is good on the reverse, but somewhat lacking on the obverse(just a tiny bit around each star and around the date). I really like it, though it may not appeal to the hardcore originalists. >>



I'm glad you like the coin. Perhaps you can get a high quality photo to show us at some point. The best thing about your coin is the nice strike and relatively clean surfaces. By the way, its not uncommon for circulated gold to have a "pocket shine" -- a slightly glossy or shiny appearance that results from the natural course of circulation.

I also showed the photos of your coin to two respected coin buddies, with almost 100 years of combined experience in collecting and dealing in Dahlonega gold coins. Both gave a "thumbs up."

johnny54321

Thanks for checking it out through several other Daholonega experts Kellogg? Here are a few of my own shots, though Im not very good at photography through slabs. There are also some very nice yellow-greenish hues in the lustrous areas of the reverse.
[URL=http://s44.photobucket.com/user/johnny54321/media/48d_obv1.jpg.html][/URL]
[URL=http://s44.photobucket.com/user/johnny54321/media/48d_obv4.jpg.html][/URL]
[URL=http://s44.photobucket.com/user/johnny54321/media/48d_obv6.jpg.html][/URL]
[URL=http://s44.photobucket.com/user/johnny54321/media/48d_rev1.jpg.html][/URL]
[URL=http://s44.photobucket.com/user/johnny54321/media/48d_rev3.jpg.html][/URL]

Staircoins

Just saw this thread. Congrats on the pickup. I'm glad you like your new '48-D. I think it's a nice, problem free example, properly graded. I'm a fan of pretty much all southern gold, and your coin is no exception!

Interestingly, yours is only the second 1848-D half eagle that I ever recall seeing posted on the forums. The other is a coin that I used to own, and have posted a few times. It's the D/D variety, and PCGS called it an AU-53. I tend to think that was a bit conservative, and CAC agreed with me, as they gold-beaned it.

Boosibri

<< <i>Just saw this thread. Congrats on the pickup. I'm glad you like your new '48-D. I think it's a nice, problem free example, properly graded. I'm a fan of pretty much all southern gold, and your coin is no exception!

Interestingly, yours is only the second 1848-D half eagle that I ever recall seeing posted on the forums. The other is a coin that I used to own, and have posted a few times. It's the D/D variety, and PCGS called it an AU-53. I tend to think that was a bit conservative, and CAC agreed with me, as they gold-beaned it.
>>



I want that 48-D/D soooo bad!

johnny54321

Wow, I love that 48 D/D. It looks a lot like mine, just a better version of mine...lol....Better detail, and remarkably free of any abrasions....that is very rare with this coin.
Does it have cartwheel luster? Mine only has it on the reverse.

steveben

<< <i>"actually, his 48-C would be a better match for *my* 48-D. ;-) "

This response absolutely mandates that you post a picture!! ;-) >>



here's mine:




notice the weak strike on mine.

yours is nice. i also really like the d/d posted above. sweet coin!

Boosibri

I've tried tracing that 48-D/D down about a year ago. If anyone knows its whereabouts please PM me!

johnny54321

Sweet coin steveben! That is really nice for an XF. I see CAC gave it the gold....what would you grade it at?

I thought I remembered looking at one like that on Heritage, did you buy it off of Heritage? Pretty sure it has sold there before anyway. I did a lot of research from auction sites before making my purchase.

steveben

<< <i>Sweet coin steveben! That is really nice for an XF. I see CAC gave it the gold....what would you grade it at?

I thought I remembered looking at one like that on Heritage, did you buy it off of Heritage? Pretty sure it has sold there before anyway. I did a lot of research from auction sites before making my purchase. >>



thanks. xf43. yes.

johnny54321

Well, I am changing this page into a free-for-all post your 1848-D half eagle thread!! Maybe we can find a few more in hiding!!

johnny54321

<< <i>thanks. xf43. yes. >>



Looking at the Heritage photos, I think it would make a 45 at least. I think PCGS took the strike weakness into account into the grade on that coin, when they should (and usually do) grade the coin based off of overall wear.....hence the gold bean. jmho.

GeorgeKellogg

There are some nice coins posted here.

Here is an 1848-D half eagle, which I bought in Auction '84 for the princely sum of $495 (including the buyer's fee). It was in the Paramount section and was catalogued by the legendary David Akers. I sent it in to be graded by our host circa 1993. This piece features the more commonly seen "weak center" on the obverse and the weakly impressed stars on the left side. It is actually a decent strike for this particular die variety. The images are courtesy of BluCC Photos.

For those unfamiliar with what was sometimes called the "Apostrophe Auction," it was an annual combined effort of four different auction houses, each supplying 500 lots.

Winchester1873

Bumping an older thread because 1. 1848 is my favorite year for Dahlonega Half Eagles due to the number of collectible varieties, and 2. I miss posts by @GeorgeKellogg (does anyone have regular contact with him?)

The final year of production before prospectors headed west for that ‘other’ gold rush:

1848-D $5 (Winter 20-L) PCGS MS61

1848-D/D $5 PCGS AU50 OGH

1848-D/D $5 SSCA PCGS MS61 CAC

ricko

@Winchester1873....Very nice Dahlonega gold .... Thanks for showing us. Cheers, RickO

CharlotteDude

This is my only Dahlonega piece,

but in an effort to keep with the 1848 theme: