Insurance to protect your valuable coins-do any collectors do this?

TahoeDale

We all know that dealers, who need to transport their coins to and from multiple shows a year, and who sell coins on a regular basis, have insurance of different levels.

But who here on the Forum has ever bought an insurance policy to protect their rare coins from theft, or during transport? And what is the cost per year per thousand?
I am limiting this inquiry to collectors who have little or no need to transport or sell via mail at any level( registered/express/ priority, 1st class).

What Ins. carriers were used, at what cost? I would think that most safely place their coins in a Safe deposit at their bank, and do not insure. But I am curious if any go the next step.

What would be an annual cost of insuring the 10 million dollar 1794 dollar? or a several hundred million dollar collection, like the Simpson or Pogue coins?

relicsncoins

I have a couple of insurance policies. One is through a reputable insurance company, and the other is through a reputable firearms manufacturer.

ricko

I self insure.... through solid security measures. It has served me well for many years. Cheers, RickO

JCMhouston

I thought almost everyone would have insurance for any reasonable size collection? Anyway, I use Collectibles Insurance Agency collectinsure.com, the price depends on what safeguards you have (SDB/safe/monitored alarm/etc) and of course the rate per $1000 coverage changes depending on the value of the collection. I'm not sure what mine was at the last renewal but it seems to me that $4-6 per thousand would be a good number to work with.

coinsarefun

I have insurance through Hugh Wood and just changed the policy to cover mailing and transit.
They are THE best people to work with at an exceptional price.

MGLICKER

<< <i>I have a couple of insurance policies. One is through a reputable insurance company, and the other is through a reputable firearms manufacturer. >>



Same here. Never had to make a claim with either.

tradedollarnut

Never had it, never will. Way too expensive for the risk [since they sit in the safe deposit box]

Coinosaurus

Hugh Wood, via the ANA, charges about 1/4 of 1% per year for stuff stored in the SD box.

RichieURich

A good rule is to insure anything that would hurt you financially if it disappeared. I suggest coin insurance thru ANA (Hugh Wood actually is the insurer) to many people. It is a lot less costly than adding your coins to your homeowner's policy. And for those of you who have safety deposit boxes but no insurance, what if the bank burns down, is flooded, or burglarized and the safety deposit boxes are broken into? In my view, 1/4 of one percent is very reasonable.

TommyType

My theory on insurance is the same as my theory on extended warranties:

There's a reason they WANT to sell it to you....THEY make money on the deal.

Don't buy it unless you can't financially handle the loss (or repair) with your everyday income and cash flow.

Obviously, home owner's, and automobile, and health are all potential HUGE expenses above what most people can handle with existing income and savings....buy the insurance. For most everything else, I'm willing to take the risk, and assume I will probably come out ahead in the end.

Of course, if your retirement is dependant on your coin collection, or your life savings is tied up in it, your own analysis may vary.

lkeigwin

<< <i>I have insurance through Hugh Wood and just changed the policy to cover mailing and transit.
They are THE best people to work with at an exceptional price. >>

Ditto. While I have excellent security I enjoy the peace of mind knowing my valuables are safe.
Lance.

tradedollarnut

<< <i> And for those of you who have safety deposit boxes but no insurance, what if the bank burns down >>



The vault won't burn



<< <i> is flooded, >>



Won't hurt the coins



<< <i>or burglarized and the safety deposit boxes are broken into? >>



Yes, this is a valid concern




<< <i>In my view, 1/4 of one percent is very reasonable. >>



That would depend on what the odds of a safe deposit box burglary actually occurring wouldn't it? Something like one in a million per year? If something occurs one in a million but they charge you 2,500 times that in premium then I don't find it very reasonable at all....

SmEagle1795

As controversial as it may sound, I agree with tradedollarnut and do not insure my coins. I mitigate the SDB risks (fire/burglary/flood/etc.) by spreading my small collection across eight different SDBs (different banks). They're geographically distributed enough so if a nuke hit one, the rest would still be safe (maybe just a little warm) and at that point, coins wouldn't matter much. It is a pain but far less expensive than insurance. I don't see my coins often so I live vicariously through my photography.

That said, I insure my house despite it being far less expensive than my coins and I insure my car because it's mandated and much more likely to be damaged.

MGLICKER

<< <i>That would depend on what the odds of a safe deposit box burglary actually occurring wouldn't it? Something like one in a million per year? If something occurs one in a million but they charge you 2,500 times that in premium then I don't find it very reasonable at all.... >>



Well said. Insurers are not in the game to lose money. Some insurance products make sense, many others are actuarially deficient.

MrHalfDime

Several years ago I looked into the cost to insure my half dime reference collection, and was absolutely staggered by what I learned. First, the premium was much higher than 1/4 of 1% as discussed here. It was above 5% then. However, if that wasn't enough to dissuade you, the entire collection had to be appraised to determine insurance value. As my collection, like many others here, is a very specialized collection, with obscure but valuable die marriages and die states, it had to be appraised by an expert in the series to determine a realistic value. Two 1829 half dimes may look alike to the untrained eye, but may vary in value by a power of 100 or more. I was not allowed to appraise my own collection because of 'conflict of interest' reasons. Adding the cost of professional appraisal to the premium, and it was significantly more expensive that I wanted to pay. It was like buying the collection again every fifteen or twenty years just for the premiums. I was completely put off insuring the collection, other than the cost of a SDB.

RichieURich

<< <i>

<< <i> And for those of you who have safety deposit boxes but no insurance, what if the bank burns down >>



The vault won't burn



<< <i> is flooded, >>



Won't hurt the coins

Heat damage could cause an issue with melting of slabs.

Flood = bank closed a long time for EPA and others to supervise the cleanup, water might have gotten into the slabs, what will they look like in several months if water is in the slabs?

But you do raise good points.

Coinosaurus

Yes........let's all not use the services of any doctors, since they make money.........evil ba$tards they are, selling a service for money.......how dare they........

TommyType

<< <i>Yes........let's all not use the services of any doctors, since they make money.........evil ba$tards they are, selling a service for money.......how dare they........ >>



I think you're projecting opinions upon us which were never expressed.

My point, (and others), was that just because you have coins doesn't mean you need coin insurance. Just because you have a pet doesn't mean you need pet insurance. Just because you wear eyeglasses, and get yearly checkups, doesn't mean you need vision insurance. Just because you may someday be hit by a meteorite doesn't mean you need meteorite insurance.

Look at your financial situation. Assess the cost vs. the benefit. Determine what loss you can already handle, and tolerate, based on your own financial situation. THEN decide if you need insurance. Availability of a product doesn't necessarily mean it's financially required.

tradedollarnut

<< <i>Yes........let's all not use the services of any doctors, since they make money.........evil ba$tards they are, selling a service for money.......how dare they........ >>



It has nothing to do with that. If I feel the chance of something happening is one in a million then if I am insuring $10M it's worth $10 to me. Why should I pay $25,000 for something worth $10?

ctf_error_coins

Let's just say that EVERY single insurance agent that I have met had a really big house and bunch of expensive toys in the driveway.

MGLICKER

<< <i>Yes........let's all not use the services of any doctors, since they make money.........evil ba$tards they are, selling a service for money.......how dare they........ >>



The good docs are beneficial for many things, but can be over used and over priced. Same as insurance.

Pokermandude

<< <i>

<< <i>Yes........let's all not use the services of any doctors, since they make money.........evil ba$tards they are, selling a service for money.......how dare they........ >>



It has nothing to do with that. If I feel the chance of something happening is one in a million then if I am insuring $10M it's worth $10 to me. Why should I pay $25,000 for something worth $10? >>



That EV (expected value, to borrow from poker math) calculation is correct based on your 1 in a million safe deposit box robbery premise. But there are other factors when insurance is involved. For most collectors, an expensive coin or collection represents an extensive amount of years of trading up coins, buying/selling, etc. If they were to lose the fruit of their efforts, they may not have the time (labour time or literally time until death) to obtain that level of coin/collection again. So I do see it being worth having their investment insured. The peace of mind gained from that insurance premium is important to a lot of people.

That being said, personally I only pay a stiff insurance premium on what cannot be replaced, or what I can't afford to replace. Such as home insurance, life insurance (if I had any dependants), etc. Like TDN and SmEagle, I keep all of my valuable coins spread out in various safe deposit boxes at banks I trust and I do not pay insurance premiums on them. I keep as little in the house as possible at any given time.

cypher

<< <i>A good rule is to insure anything that would hurt you financially if it disappeared. I suggest coin insurance thru ANA (Hugh Wood actually is the insurer) to many people. It is a lot less costly than adding your coins to your homeowner's policy. And for those of you who have safety deposit boxes but no insurance, what if the bank burns down, is flooded, or burglarized and the safety deposit boxes are broken into? In my view, 1/4 of one percent is very reasonable >>



Ditto to everything said there.

BryceM

'tis funny, the different ways people see things.

In some ways, the people who can least afford it, often end up paying the most. Those whose collection represents only a part of an otherwise sizable estate probably don't need any insurance. Assuming they take a few reasonable precautions, avail themselves of an SDB, and don't advertise that they carry gold bullion in their pockets, why should they be bothered with "one more expense"? If their collection disappeared it would be an inconvenience, a source of sadness maybe, but it wouldn't be devastating.

Others, who have worked hard, scrimped and saved, thrown every cent they have into their collection, toiled and travailed to find "just the right ones" over a lifetime would be completely wiped out by a loss. These people probably need the security that a policy would provide.

In general, I think most people are over-warrantied and over-insured. I see eating breakfast as a real, but acceptable risk. I have crashed motorcycles way up in the mountains, raced snowmobiles (broke both arms once), flown in WWII fighters, routinely operate on people with HIV and Hep C, once did a dance with a cobra under my feet while hunting in Africa, and so far it's all been a blast. Most likely I'll die someday of a mundane, first-world sugar/cholesterol/red meat induced disease, tucked away safely in an overpriced hospital bed, consuming far more resources in my final days than can be justified. So be it.

When it comes to coins, the specifics of my security plan aren't discussed openly. Let's just say there is one and that it has several layers. There are ways it could be defeated, but I'm comfortable with my odds. It all comes down to what you could afford to lose.

JustMe2

The value of my coin collection and house are about the same yet the insurance on the coins would be over four times what the house insurance is. The coins sit in a SDB. The house sits out side in the weather in the woods and is covered if some knuckle head cuts a tree down and hits it (I came way to close). It just does not make sense to insure the coins. For what it's worth the bank sits on the side of a mountain and if it floods I will have larger issues than coins...

AnkurJ

I use collect insure as I have a variety of collectibles. It costs a fraction of requested coverage and protects during transport, mail and at home/bank obviously. They don't insure coins only though.

Lakesammman

Never had it, never will. Way too expensive for the risk [since they sit in the safe deposit box]

While I agree, I wonder how many SDB's were destroyed in the WTC attacks??

Ronyahski

I have insurance for three reasons. One, even though the coins sit in a SDB, there is enough value tied up in my collection compared to overall net worth that I don't want to worry about the one-in-a-million scenario where something may happen. Two, I have special insurance riders where my coins are protected in transit to and from the SDB. That includes transit it bringing them home and while they are at my house. It also includes while they are with me at shows or for whatever reason in my possession. Three, it keeps my wife sane.

TahoeDale - Pm me if you want more info.

Nic

Agree with TDN. Not me.

K

RYK

<< <i>'tis funny, the different ways people see things.

In some ways, the people who can least afford it, often end up paying the most. Those whose collection represents only a part of an otherwise sizable estate probably don't need any insurance. Assuming they take a few reasonable precautions, avail themselves of an SDB, and don't advertise that they carry gold bullion in their pockets, why should they be bothered with "one more expense"? If their collection disappeared it would be an inconvenience, a source of sadness maybe, but it wouldn't be devastating.

Others, who have worked hard, scrimped and saved, thrown every cent they have into their collection, toiled and travailed to find "just the right ones" over a lifetime would be completely wiped out by a loss. These people probably need the security that a policy would provide.

In general, I think most people are over-warrantied and over-insured. I see eating breakfast as a real, but acceptable risk. I have crashed motorcycles way up in the mountains, raced snowmobiles (broke both arms once), flown in WWII fighters, routinely operate on people with HIV and Hep C, once did a dance with a cobra under my feet while hunting in Africa, and so far it's all been a blast. Most likely I'll die someday of a mundane, first-world sugar/cholesterol/red meet induced disease, tucked away safely in an overpriced hospital bed, consuming far more resources in my final days than can be justified. So be it.

When it comes to coins, the specifics of my security plan aren't discussed openly. Let's just say there is one and that it has several layers. There are ways it could be defeated, but I'm comfortable with my odds. It all comes down to what you could afford to lose. >>


Well said, and I generally agree--except the part about red meat.

I have a very small insurance policy to cover, a rider on my homeowner's policy, to cover coins that I might have in transit or at the house. To be honest, I am not sure why. I rarely have anything of significant import or value at home. The bulk of the value is in an uninsured SDB. I guess if my financial well being was materially tied to the coin collection (and I would argue that is a precarious position, unless you are a full time dealer), I would have a more comprehensive policy.

I have heard TDN's explanation, over the years, and have bought into it. I do insure my wife's jewelry, and it paid off when she lost an expensive earring. I generally ask for the highest deductibles possible because if you do the math, over time, you are likely to save money. However, if the $1000 or $2500 or $5000 deductible (or whatever) would create a significant hardship, you can justify the lower deductible. Everyone has different circumstances and risk tolerances.

BryceM

...... oh, the horror.....

Gads, that's exactly the sort of typo / mistake that drives me bonkers.

They're, their, there. It's, its. Meat, meet. I durn well know the difference.

RYK

<< <i>...... oh, the horror.....

Gads, that's exactly the sort of typo / mistake that drives me bonkers.

They're, their, there. It's, its. Meat, meet. I durn well know the difference. >>


In all candor, I was not referring to the typo. It did not register to me until you pointed it out. This is a coin message board, not a PhD dissertation in English literature. There is something about having spellcheck that is making all of us worse at spelling.

I was simply making reference to the fact that I do not eat meat (red or otherwise) and have not done so for nearly 20 years.

Your points were excellent. That was the point of my post.

BryceM

LOL.

Written communication is so feeble.

As for meat, red or otherwise, I respect all viewpoints, but I'm still finding great pleasure in being a meat & potatoes kind of guy.

Now we're way off topic.......

Baley

I spend very little on anything except the coins themselves and the occasional book, and the rental fee for SDBs and a PO box.

no grading fees, no packaging, no fancy holders, lables or stickers, no travel to shows, no auction buyer's premiums, no dealers or auction fees, and also no insurance premiums.

Then again, my collection is not at all that impressive, compared to some of the big swinging ones around here. If I were as high profile as them I'd probably be into all that stuff

breakdown

I tend to agree with TDN but I am risk-averse so I do have a policy through Collectors Insure. Fairly affordable but I have a limited value that I can take out of the SDBs.

Constantine

<< <i>The value of my coin collection and house are about the same yet the insurance on the coins would be over four times what the house insurance is. The coins sit in a SDB. The house sits out side in the weather in the woods and is covered if some knuckle head cuts a tree down and hits it (I came way to close). It just does not make sense to insure the coins. For what it's worth the bank sits on the side of a mountain and if it floods I will have larger issues than coins... >>



It may be more likely that your entire coin collection could be stolen or destroyed inside your home rather than a complete 100% loss of your home. Also your home insurance covers the home, not the land it sits on. So you do need to breakdown the actual value of the house, not the market value of selling your house.

GeorgeKellogg

I have an ANA-sponsored policy from Hugh Wood. As I type this, I'm at a coin show, exhibiting one of my collections (value well into five figures), as well as a few items for "show and tell" with my friends. The items out of the vault are fully covered (as well as the bulk of the collection in the bank vault), which provides peace of mind while "on the road." One must still be cautious not to leave items unattended in a vehicle, as this is a coverage exclusion in most policies.

I generally agree with the arguments made concerning the cost - benefit analysis that should be done before purchasing insurance. In my case, I am OK with the cost of the ANA policy, as it insures something that I've been investing considerable money and energy in for 35 years -- and is a small fraction of my annual coin budget. I simply consider it a part of doing business, much as I do travel expenses to coin shows. The ANA policy is flexible and coverage can be tailored to one's needs. Those who want to self-insure while in a safe deposit box could still benefit by having a smaller policy for "out of vault" coverage.

Boosibri

Bumping this thread….

Any new perspectives on the cost/benefit of insuring coins while in an SDB. I currently fully insure but am strongly debating reducing coverage for only in transit.

Funny enough, a tornado hit my bank this week with no damage to its brick building, while the wood frame building across the street is half gone.

csdot

@Boosibri said:
Bumping this thread….

Any new perspectives on the cost/benefit of insuring coins while in an SDB. I currently fully insure but am strongly debating reducing coverage for only in transit.

Funny enough, a tornado hit my bank this week with no damage to its brick building, while the wood frame building across the street is half gone.

Greatest threat to SDB contents is from the government. Would insurance even cover governmental theft?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/the-fbi-took-86-million-from-safe-deposit-boxes-an-appeals-court-will-decide-if-thats-constitutional/ar-AA1laueK

lermish

@csdot said:

@Boosibri said:
Bumping this thread….

Any new perspectives on the cost/benefit of insuring coins while in an SDB. I currently fully insure but am strongly debating reducing coverage for only in transit.

Funny enough, a tornado hit my bank this week with no damage to its brick building, while the wood frame building across the street is half gone.

Greatest threat to SDB contents is from the government. Would insurance even cover governmental theft?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/the-fbi-took-86-million-from-safe-deposit-boxes-an-appeals-court-will-decide-if-thats-constitutional/ar-AA1laueK

Not this again...we have so many insurance threads which are at least useful. We also have several threads about this safe deposit box issue with many uninformed and apocalyptic opinions. Can't we talk about something less controversial, like VaultBox or CAC?

blitzdude

@lermish said:

@csdot said:

@Boosibri said:
Bumping this thread….

Any new perspectives on the cost/benefit of insuring coins while in an SDB. I currently fully insure but am strongly debating reducing coverage for only in transit.

Funny enough, a tornado hit my bank this week with no damage to its brick building, while the wood frame building across the street is half gone.

Greatest threat to SDB contents is from the government. Would insurance even cover governmental theft?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/the-fbi-took-86-million-from-safe-deposit-boxes-an-appeals-court-will-decide-if-thats-constitutional/ar-AA1laueK

Not this again...we have so many insurance threads which are at least useful. We also have several threads about this safe deposit box issue with many uninformed and apocalyptic opinions. Can't we talk about something less controversial, like VaultBox or CAC?

The forum police strike again. There's much more to life than cacs. THKS!

lermish

@blitzdude said:

@lermish said:

@csdot said:

@Boosibri said:
Bumping this thread….

Any new perspectives on the cost/benefit of insuring coins while in an SDB. I currently fully insure but am strongly debating reducing coverage for only in transit.

Funny enough, a tornado hit my bank this week with no damage to its brick building, while the wood frame building across the street is half gone.

Greatest threat to SDB contents is from the government. Would insurance even cover governmental theft?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/the-fbi-took-86-million-from-safe-deposit-boxes-an-appeals-court-will-decide-if-thats-constitutional/ar-AA1laueK

Not this again...we have so many insurance threads which are at least useful. We also have several threads about this safe deposit box issue with many uninformed and apocalyptic opinions. Can't we talk about something less controversial, like VaultBox or CAC?

The forum police strike again. There's much more to life than cacs. THKS!

I wish I could introduce you to the forum Reading Comprehension Wizard. RD THX RGDS

Slade01

Anyone who lives down in Phoenix should strongly consider Mountain Vault over bank safety deposit boxes, far more secure and many high tech companies store data there. Heavily armed guards, halon fire suppression, no chance of flood, and very private.

raycyca

You speak of the World Trade Center and safe deposit boxes being destroyed there. My hearts go out all for that horrible day. But, I also bought silver dollars and some coins from the vaults and some are graded as 69 and 70. NOT "shipwreck effect" coins either. Just my fifty cents.

crazyhounddog

Insured with a bulletproof safe and a Kimber .45 Raptor.

tcollects

@crazyhounddog said:
Insured with a bulletproof safe and a Kimber .45 Raptor.

...and free PCGS fire insurance

horseyride

@crazyhounddog said:

Insured with a bulletproof safe and a Kimber .45 Raptor.

Why does a safe need to be bulletproof? Is someone going to open a safe by shooting at it?