This is appropriate?

CrissCriss · April 9, 2014 1:13PM

I'm just asking a question here. I have to wonder if a new board member did this if people wouldn't be going nuts, but apparently for longtime board members it's ok to auction a card but tell people on the BST that he will "take offers" on it. This is ok, really?

63 Rose

psychump · April 9, 2014 1:26PM

This webpage is not available

esquiresports · April 9, 2014 4:35PM

After writing my long-winded response, here is the Cliff Notes version: I think the lack of response is based on common practice and has little or nothing to do with how long/active this poster is on GUU. That said, here it goes:

I saw your post in the BST forum so I get the reference without needing a link. Is it okay for a seller who has an item listed on eBay to accept offers for purchase outside of eBay? Legitimate question. I don't want to try to speak for anyone else, so I will speak for myself only. A potential seller on eBay is soliciting bids for an item. A potential buyer may make an offer for the item (a bid), which is binding once accepted (contrary to what eBay may claim, a bid is not a binding agreement without acceptance). Prior to acceptance (the end of the auction), a potential seller may withdraw the item, and the potential buyer (the bidder) may withdraw the offer (the bid). eBay allows potential sellers to cancel a listing because "the item is no longer for sale" and allows for bid retractions, which is likely based on fundamental contract law. However, going beyond contract law, eBay may institute its own policies that punish potential buyers and/sellers for for these actions, even if permitted under law.

For reputational reasons, I would only offer an item outside of eBay prior to my listing it there, but wouldn't hold it against someone for doing so after listing. Again, technically speaking, eBay allows a potential seller to withdraw an item at any time once it is no longer available for sale. This is such a common practice that I doubt the lack of reaction has nothing to do with whether the seller is a long-time member but instead is based on practical reality.

miklia · April 9, 2014 5:25PM

seeing this, I assumed that this was going to be referring to a BIN listing, and was wondering what the problem was. Firedawg's running a no reserve auction, and still soliciting offers.

Rose

I'm with Criss on this one, this falls under 'not ok'.

magikbilly · April 9, 2014 5:28PM

IDK. I try to sell one thing in one place at a time. I post stuff on eBay from time to time but I sell to a core of collectors who see my collections, writing, research or images/services online or in books and write to the address given. This is good for many reasons - fees aside. Like many of you I expect - or like getting PM's from other members here you don't know yet. I am not thrilled to see an item at auction also at other venues simultaneously. Like the Gent above - I speak for myself.

Eric

Edit to add: When I see an item at auction for $400, listed elsewhere for $350 and another for $295, I know the seller likely has little idea what he is doing (or is just out to make any buck). If the item is correct - I will buy under these circumstances - I don't have to like it (and I am not spending the $400, that's for sure). Asa seller, my prices don't swing like that, and there are no price or grading guides for a lot of what I sell. Such a price swing looks very bad IMO.

firedawg45 · April 9, 2014 8:20PM

let me say first of all, its my card and i can choose to sell it however i please. there is nothing wrong with this. first i can sell in on ebay no probem and pay all the fees or sell it off line to a friend on the boards which i do all the time. i have the right to pull any listing off ebay with bids or just like retracting bids buyers do. the reason its on ebay and i posted on the boards is sometimes members dont follow through and since my wife is pregnant i need to move some funds for this. family before all, sorry if you dont like it to your taste but again its my card and my right. i have a outstanding rep on here and never screwewd anyone over. so please move on. my 2 cents.

miklia · April 9, 2014 8:48PM

<< i have a outstanding rep >>

hey now, no need to limit yourself to the present tense.

WinPitcher · April 9, 2014 9:03PM

A non issue, Dawg states in the BST that it is also on Ebay...

Scottiec2288 · April 9, 2014 9:09PM

I would say No. Personally I would not auction card and try to sell on BST board too. If it was a Buy it now ok but once there are bidders in an auction you should just let it ride. If your scared should of put a reserve or higher starting price. It is a awesome card and I think you could have asked higher price as a buy it now or best offer. It is your card and you can do what you want but doesn't make it right.

vintageinvestments · April 9, 2014 9:15PM

Not as bad as someone presenting an offer on the BST and then after days of non-communication backing out on their own deal. I would imagine that is far worse for your reputation.....wouldn't you Criss?

Frozencaribou · April 9, 2014 9:48PM

I've never held it against a seller for ending an auction early. I accept that it could be advantageous for the seller and the buyer to make an off eBay deal, and accept that I don't live in a world where I can force a seller to complete an auction. I personally don't end auctions early, but I try to avoid eBay at all costs in the first place.

-Nathanael

Unknown · April 9, 2014 9:59PM

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fergie23 · April 9, 2014 10:13PM

Kind of sleazy but pretty common. If I notice a seller ending NR auctions early that have bids I won't bother to do business with them. When it happens I do wonder what the item sold off eBay for as I am a fairly aggressive bidder for items I want and it is unlikely the item sold for more than my max bid would have been (though of course the seller would never know this). I can understand why sellers do it but I would be interested in knowing if people that turn down the offers to end early find that their items sold for more or less than the offer that was made.

As for CrissCriss not sure what he actually contributes to these boards. Seems like an alt for a bitter person that does not want to reveal that side of themselves with their normal account. Not sure why anyone would consider/want to do business with someone like that.

Robb

Dnice · April 9, 2014 10:53PM

I personally have no issues with either person and although criss criss has always come off like an alt on these boards imo, I believe that doesnt stop him from having a valid point. Yes the seller can do whatever he chooses with his card but to be taking offers outside of ebay when people have already placed bids on the actual auction is not good business in my book and I know most members here look down upon that practice from what Ive read with my time here on the boards. If someone doesnt care, its probably because they dont have any bids in the auctual auction.

Black00SS · April 9, 2014 10:59PM

Here's a question.....

Is it appropriate to make another thread to address a complaint that could have been addressed in the aforementioned thread?

jeffcbay · April 9, 2014 11:10PM

I don't find a problem with what he's doing. I don't personally do it, but it's his own prerogative. It would make more sense to have it listed on ebay as a BIN/OBO while being listed on the BST, but it is what it is. Not the end of the world.

WFFL · April 9, 2014 11:13PM

Tough for me to make a sound decision with many good points by seller, potential buyers, and onlookers. I know as a seller I want the most money I can honestly get and as a buyer I want the least amount of money I have to pay. With that in mind, I expect competition for the price be it legitimate bidding, multiple listings, and/or shilling. Appropriate? Critical thinking essay material.

RonBurgundy · April 9, 2014 11:34PM

I agree with DNice. I certainly wouldn't bid on the card.

DanBessette · April 10, 2014 12:54AM

<< Not as bad as someone presenting an offer on the BST and then after days of non-communication backing out on their own deal. I would imagine that is far worse for your reputation.....wouldn't you Criss? >>

I've read this in numerous threads.... And he never responds to it. Lack of denial says it all.

mattyc_collection · April 10, 2014 12:56AM

While the card is accurately graded and VERY VERY VERY nice, it is not 50/50, as advertised. The left-right looks more like 55/45?

shagrotn77 · April 10, 2014 1:29AM

Based on the ridiculous fees eBay now charges to sell items, I'm all for selling offline whenever possible. As I've said before here, if a card pops up that you have to have, you should always contact the seller to A-see if you can do a side deal, or B-make sure the auction will run its course. Even if this runs contrary to your philosophy, many people are doing it, so you have to keep up with the Joneses.

JHS5120 · April 10, 2014 1:37AM

As a buyer and seller I have no problem with someone ending their auction early to sell the card off ebay.

jeffcbay · April 10, 2014 1:41AM

I never contact an ebay seller to sell off ebay. Also as a seller I don't sell my items off ebay when contacted about it. Especially for high-dollar items. It's worth the buyer/seller protection.

LarkinCollector · April 10, 2014 1:42AM

How would everyone feel if other AHs did this (put an item up for bid and then withdrew for an offline sale)? I agree it happens way too much on eBay, but have a feeling there would be a lot of comments regarding auction integrity if this happened in any other auction site.

sportscardtheory · April 10, 2014 2:03AM

Eh, who cares. First to pay gets the card, is what I always say.

DoctorK · April 10, 2014 2:11AM

I deal with auction houses on a regular basis and not only for cards. If an auction house/auctioneer want to ensure that people quit attending and/or bidding on items, then let the high bidder know that their bid will be considered if they do not get another offer from someone else. If one is going to auction an item, let it run the course and sell to the high bidder. If one is shopping for offers, set a high BIN/BO and wait for a suitable offer to come in. Running an unreserved auction and making a decision during or after the auction ends if the high bid will be accepted reeks of amateurism and lacks any form of professionalism. Shenanigans like this lose bidders and potential customers, many whom will never even look at the sellers items again in the future.

70ToppsFanatic · April 10, 2014 2:12AM

No need for a federal case on this. If you don't like that its on eBay and the seller is also trying to
solicit offers elsewhere then just don't bid/offer.

As for the item itself, the centering is nice but the registration and snowiness in the images were sufficient
for me to choose to pass on this one.

DoctorK · April 10, 2014 2:15AM

I don't believe there is a problem with the item being listed on ebay and offered here. I believe the problem is that the item is being offered in an auction format with current bids while being offered here simultaneously. Bids currently placed on this auction deserve to be honored.

Dnice · April 10, 2014 2:25AM

I don't believe there is a problem with the item being listed on ebay and offered here. I believe the problem is that the item is being offered in an auction format with current bids while being offered here simultaneously. Bids currently placed on this auction deserve to be honored.

You hit the nail on the head right there.

magikbilly · April 10, 2014 2:27AM

<< I don't believe there is a problem with the item being listed on ebay and offered here. I believe the problem is that the item is being offered in an auction format with current bids while being offered here simultaneously. Bids currently placed on this auction deserve to be honored.

You hit the nail on the head right there. >>

He did indeed.

Eric

sportscardtheory · April 10, 2014 3:07AM

There is a huge difference between auction houses and ebay. An auction house has to be professional because it's a business. People selling on ebay are selling their OWN things on their OWN dime and time and effort and can do whatever they want with THEIR items. To compare sellers on ebay to auction houses is silly.

charrigan · April 10, 2014 3:11AM

<< There is a huge difference between auction houses and ebay. An auction house has to be professional because it's a business. People selling on ebay are selling their OWN things on their OWN dime and time and effort and can do whatever they want with THEIR items. To compare sellers on ebay to auction houses is silly. >>

True, but that comes back to the question of "appropriateness". If buyers have a reasonable expectation that eBay sellers exhibit professional behavior (offer returns, ship promptly, communicate well, etc. as per eBay terms), the comparison is warranted.

swartz1 · April 10, 2014 3:17AM

It is his card...

so let everyone else here tell him what to do with it...

DoctorK · April 10, 2014 3:27AM

<< There is a huge difference between auction houses and ebay. An auction house has to be professional because it's a business. People selling on ebay are selling their OWN things on their OWN dime and time and effort and can do whatever they want with THEIR items. To compare sellers on ebay to auction houses is silly. >>

The point is if an item has bids--honor the bids. Sure, anyone can do anything with their property whether I deem it right or not. Put a reserve on it, start it at a price you will accept, or BIN/BO. Why run an unreserved auction if you are not sure you will sell it to the top bidder?

The comparison was made to show that HOW a seller (Corporate or Individual) handles their business impacts whether buyers will continue to purchase/attend/peruse that seller's items for sale.

sportscardtheory · April 10, 2014 3:30AM

Did he have bids on ebay and then end the item early to sell it to someone here on the boards instead? I didn't see that part.

JHS5120 · April 10, 2014 3:31AM

<< True, but that comes back to the question of "appropriateness". If buyers have a reasonable expectation that eBay sellers exhibit professional behavior (offer returns, ship promptly, communicate well, etc. as per eBay terms), the comparison is warranted. >>

Problems generally arise on eBay when a buyer starts comparing part-time eBay sellers to retail stores, auction houses, etc. It's perfectly reasonable for a seller to try to get the most out of his item and if he wishes to solicit sales off eBay (with or without bids) then that is certainly appropriate.

It certainly wouldn't be appropriate to shill the auction or not honor the winning bid (if the auction ended with a sale), but if the seller wishes to end his listing early then he is well within his right to do so.

Dpeck100 · April 10, 2014 3:33AM

<< Did he have bids on ebay and then end the item early to sell it to someone here on the boards instead? I didn't see that part. >>

The thread on the buy sell board says it is sold and the auction is ended.

I am not a huge fan of ending items with bids but it is the sellers choice.

DoctorK · April 10, 2014 3:34AM

<< Did he have bids on ebay and then end the item early to sell it to someone here on the boards instead? I didn't see that part. >>

Multiple bids up to $2333 before they were cancelled and the auction was ended.

bobbyw8469 · April 10, 2014 3:52AM

..and just 6 months ago, the card sold for $1,400 on Net54.......nice turnaround.

mtcards · April 10, 2014 4:09AM

I dont disagree with the seller from a standpoint of wanting to avoid ebay fees....I would do that in a heartbeat. I wouldnt even have a problem if I put an item up with a BIN and someone offered to buy it outside of ebay, after all it isnt changing the game having it listed/advertised somewhere else. That being said, running an auction is a different beast. I think we can all agree that bid retractors are a problem on ebay and will eventually become an issue for everyone until it costs ebay enough money to stop it. Pulling an auction item down is no different. In this instance, it is wrong....end of story

1954 · April 10, 2014 4:24AM

CrissCriss have you ever contributed to a thread without being a douche? Seriously, I have read way too many posts where all you do is bash people and slander others. Whether Dawg is selling the card incorrectly or not has nothing to do with you. You offered unopened boxes/cases to me for sale that YOU NEVER HAD or OWNED. Do you think that is honorable in any way? You hid behind your computer slandering people but yet you have never mentioned your first name before.
If you had any stones whatsoever you would come out of the closet and let all of us know who you are. You won't do that because you are a liar, a fake, worthless and a scam artist. Please contact me if you have any questions or concerns.

Shane Leonard

psychump · April 10, 2014 5:59AM

WinPitcher · April 10, 2014 7:50AM

Hi Shane, hope all is well.

PSASAP · April 10, 2014 8:41AM

I think auction houses (and eBay) should model their business practices after an industry that has a history of being transparent, honest and aboveboard in every respect. Of course I'm talking about car dealerships.

vintageinvestments · April 11, 2014 7:51AM

CrissCriss= Champaigne dreams on a Natty Lite budget. Likes to make offers and disappear with no intentions of following through.

This is appropriate?

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