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Disappointed with the silver medal in the Theodore Roosevelt set and now I know why ...
BillJones
Posts: 33,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
I recently received the 2013 Theodore Roosevelt "Chronicles Set," and I am disappointed with the silver medal, which was struck on a ASE planchet. In addition to indifferent surface quality, the piece is also in disappointingly low relief. This week I learned why.
In the most recent Stacks' auction there was large silver piece that was made at the Philadelphia mint in the 1950s. According to the brief Stacks' description, this piece was clandestinely made for a gentleman named Ed Rice who had an "in" at the mint. This piece was made from the standard dies that were used to make the standard three inch medals the mint offered in a wide varieties years ago. The only difference was, this piece was made in silver, and according to Stacks' is quite rare.
As you can see, even on this piece the relief is quite low, which is apparently the way Charles Barber (obverse) and George Morgan (reverse) wanted it.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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<< <i>The string on his pince-nez looks like a die crack in such low relief. Or snot. >>
I know, at first glance I thought it was a lint mark too.
There were a couple 3 inch versions a while back on ebay that came with a letter (i dont remember to whom) that saud the person who wanted the silver version had to send in their own silver to be refined before medal production.
I know a forum member has been keeping track of the 3 inch silvers. Hopefully he will post.
Edit: for clarification, the letter was dated in the 1970s i believe. So im not sure how stacks/bowers attributed this psrticular piece to Ed Rice.
Bill, how much does this piece weigh?
<< <i>Does anyone know more about Ed Rice who had this "in" at the mint which provided him with a chance to get these custom made silver pieces? I was well aware of the bronze medals that the mint offered in the 1960s and before, but I never saw any offerings of the silver pieces. >>
Anyone could have silver strikes made but the silver had to be furnished by the applicant. In the
1960s I inquired about having certain medals struck in silver and was told that there was a $25
fee per medal in addition to my furnishing the silver in a certain form. It turned out to be more of a
problem than I thought it was worth and dropped the idea.
Another problem was that the Mint would not furnish the pieces in proof. The only finish the Mint
would supply was the sand-blasted version.
<< <i>
<< <i>Does anyone know more about Ed Rice who had this "in" at the mint which provided him with a chance to get these custom made silver pieces? I was well aware of the bronze medals that the mint offered in the 1960s and before, but I never saw any offerings of the silver pieces. >>
Anyone could have silver strikes made but the silver had to be furnished by the applicant. In the
1960s I inquired about having certain medals struck in silver and was told that there was a $25
fee per medal in addition to my furnishing the silver in a certain form. It turned out to be more of a
problem than I thought it was worth and dropped the idea.
Another problem was that the Mint would not furnish the pieces in proof. The only finish the Mint
would supply was the sand-blasted version. >>
Thank you for your response. There was an example of the Abraham Lincoln medal (Julian PR-12) in the same auction from the same source. I didn't bid on it because I already have a 19th century version of that Lincoln medal which appears on the flyleaf of the Julian book.
The relief is low, but the string is clear and not confusing.
The die polish effect on the silver medal was relatively consistent across the 6, but not totally. However, none was so light as to appear to have none. The variations were slight with, interestingly enough, more variation around the rim area. edit: to add that there seems to be more around the rim areas.
The bronze medal is also low relief and surprisingly comes with lines in the fields long and strong enough to be confused with scratches at first glance, but they are the same across all 6. I don't think they are scratches. They extend radially outward as flow lines would, but these seem incuse on the coin and a couple would be the longest flow lines I've ever seen.
I ordered months ago and they haven't arrived yet.
<< <i>When did you order arrived?
I ordered months ago and they haven't arrived yet. >>
Mine arrived on Monday 1 week ago by 2 day UPS.
<< <i>in re: Ed Rice Ed was a large man from Cranbury, NJ. He was a potato broker and traded futures in potatoes. He knew a great many people in the business. He got possession of the Chapman estate and had many things including lots of catalogs. He was also a very heavy gambler who got junkets from casinos in Cuba and the Bahamas. At the 1967 ANA in Miami they sent about 20 tickets for him to pass out to his friends for an all expense trip to El Casino in the Bahamas. I was lucky to get to go there, and had one of the best meals I ever had in my life on the house. Ed was very generous to his friends. He had many silver mint medals made, I still have a Lincoln Peace medal that came from him. You can tell it was not the same quality as the originals even if they came from the same dies. >>
A potato broker, eh? When you got to the casino, did he supply chips as well??
but haven't recieved a call back yet.
<< <i>When did you order arrived?
I ordered months ago and they haven't arrived yet. >>
My order arrived on Saturday, March 22.
<< <i>
<< <i>When did you order arrived?
I ordered months ago and they haven't arrived yet. >>
My order arrived on Saturday, March 22. >>
My order is undoubtedly awaiting its turn in the sorting room
of Whitman Publishing Mail-Handling Complex 7-B.
<< <i>I've been calling our hosts about grading these
but haven't recieved a call back yet. >>
they do the first spouse medals
they did the 9/11 silver medals
they do the proof dollar coins
I imagine they could do these and only need sealed boxes because of the proof dollar coin (and perhaps the restrike(?) of the bronze medal???)