Generally, people are willing to pay a premium to get good looking physical gold. Because looking at it is all it's good for between the time you buy and sell it.
to increase your pool of buyers when it is time to sell. The most popular gold products (with the most buyers) have the higher premiums. More buyers provide more demand for the product. More demand provides higher prices.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
If you have 10,000 to spend at APMEX on gold , buy mexican 10 peso coins for 337.56 each then turn around and sell them back to APMEX instantly and you will lose $458
Now buy random date 1/4 ounce AGE's for 371.69 each then turn around and sell them back to APMEX instantly and you will lose $486
I don't see the advantage in dollars and with the peso's you have almost a half ounce more gold in your pocket. >>
You don't always have to sell to Apmex. You can sell on the BST, on eBay, etc... where you can get your premium back.
The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
Pretty gold is pretty liquid, even at a premium to melt. Ugly (scrap) gold, you have to talk someone into taking it off your hands, and have to negotiate the discount to melt to cash it out.
In between is boring gold, which usually is fairly liquid at prices close to melt.
There's a spectrum. At one end is rare desirable collectible gold with huge premiums (gold melt is secondary or even trivial)
at the other end is a bunch of broken scrap jewelry and dental gold
If you have 10,000 to spend at APMEX on gold , buy mexican 10 peso coins for 337.56 each then turn around and sell them back to APMEX instantly and you will lose $458
Now buy random date 1/4 ounce AGE's for 371.69 each then turn around and sell them back to APMEX instantly and you will lose $486
I don't see the advantage in dollars and with the peso's you have almost a half ounce more gold in your pocket. >>
You don't always have to sell to Apmex. You can sell on the BST, on eBay, etc... where you can get your premium back. >>
I don't want to sell anything to APMEX , ever you have to sell over $10,000 at once to get the buyback prices they quote. That means I have to mail $10,000 in PM's halfway across the country. Plus I have to take a check.
If I sell on the BST , then "maybe" I get my premium back , "maybe" I don't. If I buy low premium gold then I get more , there is no maybe about it.
Nobody likes to quantify these premiums in terms of the percentage of spot. If spot rises , they disappear if spot falls they increase.
What is the premium on an ASE right now? 4$? that is about .2 oz of silver . If silver is $40 an ounce and you manage to get $4 back then you threw away .1 ounce of silver. How is that good?
Premiums only help if it craters . If it craters then getting out entirely pays better than selling your ASE's for 9$ each when spot is $6
Major changes in spot price create chaos in the market and premiums are hard to predict . I'm not nostradamus I can't predict pricing 5 years out , but I don't need to be if I just get more gold for the same price I'm always ahead.
to increase your pool of buyers when it is time to sell. The most popular gold products (with the most buyers) have the higher premiums. More buyers provide more demand for the product. More demand provides higher prices. >>
Would also be about trust. More people are likely to have trust in AGEs than they are in one ounce gold bars, esp. if that gold bar is removed from its sealed packaging. Then again, any coin including AGEs [if originating from outside the U.S.] could possibly be counterfeit.
<< <i> If I sell on the BST , then "maybe" I get my premium back , "maybe" I don't. If I buy low premium gold then I get more , there is no maybe about it. >>
I have always gotten the premium back on BST (for premium products).
You have more gold but I have less gold with more premium. You will have to sell your gold closer to spot because less popular. I will have more buyers willing to pay the premium for my product.
I now have a 300 Cruzeiros at melt on the BST. It has been sitting there for a couple of weeks with no takers. One AGE at $80 over spot sold in two days back in February.
The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
If you have 10,000 to spend at APMEX on gold , buy mexican 10 peso coins for 337.56 each then turn around and sell them back to APMEX instantly and you will lose $458
Now buy random date 1/4 ounce AGE's for 371.69 each then turn around and sell them back to APMEX instantly and you will lose $486
I don't see the advantage in dollars and with the peso's you have almost a half ounce more gold in your pocket. >>
You don't always have to sell to Apmex. You can sell on the BST, on eBay, etc... where you can get your premium back. >>
What is the premium on an ASE right now? 4$? that is about .2 oz of silver . If silver is $40 an ounce and you manage to get $4 back then you threw away .1 ounce of silver. How is that good? >>
Right now at JMBullion it is about $2.70 on a 100 or more coin purchase. Of course it will/may be higher if you buy from a B & M or smaller quantities. If I was buying right now, I wouldn't pay any more than what a big bullion house is selling them for. If the price drops another $10 or more per roll, I'm buying.
can you imagine, "I know it weighs one ounce of silver, but it's worth 14% more than other silver, because of the design and grade! I'm gonna need 1.14 lbs of beans in exchange for this nice piece of silver!"
also, "we can't melt that and make some transistors! It's slabbed!
This is y silver will not be used/recognized as money/currency by a world bank system... And gold "premiums" will disappear if so recognized.. >>
Current worldwide "money/currency" have premiums. They are constantly changing in the FOREX market.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
This is y silver will not be used/recognized as money/currency by a world bank system... And gold "premiums" will disappear if so recognized.. >>
Current worldwide "money/currency" have premiums. They are constantly changing in the FOREX market. >>
Pretty hilarious, your theories always seem to contradict what u seem to propagate/believe ... Gold or silver have no country... >>
FOREX is not a theory. It's a place where currency values actually rise and fall. You claimed once something becomes "money" it won't carry a premium. I showed you that it does.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Interesting...I guess I wasn't really specific... your assumption forex would be viable in a new currency era, I guess could happen... I'm more in camp if anything ever really happens that gold will dictate fiat value, not currently fiat dictating gold price...
As long as differenct currencies co-exist, they will always fluctate in trading value and will need a method of exchange. I only mentioned FOREX to show that currencies do carry premiums.
Perception dictates fiat value. I prefer to think in terms of "how many dollars will my ounce of gold buy" and "the value of my gold is not changing, it is the value of the dollar that is changing."
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Thinking more paper to paper presumed premiums are country originated, as yen here in the states are virtually worthless, unless u pay paper conversion rate ( is that considered premium?)... I think forex premiums differ from metals premiums... Once again gold, silver have no country, in any country they are still gold n silver...
<< <i>Once again gold, silver have no country, in any country they are still gold n silver... >>
This why they are real money.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Once again gold, silver have no country, in any country they are still gold n silver... >>
This why they are real money. >>
And that's why 1oz = 1oz , and there will be no premiums...lol >>
let me know where you are able to trade a one oz gold eagle for ten one-tenth ounce gold eagles and not pay a premium for the tenth ouncers. I'll take a piece of that action.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Once again gold, silver have no country, in any country they are still gold n silver... >>
This why they are real money. >>
And that's why 1oz = 1oz , and there will be no premiums...lol >>
let me know where you are able to trade a one oz gold eagle for ten one-tenth ounce gold eagles and not pay a premium for the tenth ouncers. I'll take a piece of that action. >>
Or take a 1 ounce gold bar and a 1 ounce AGE into your local B & M and see what he'll offer you for each one.
My head is spinning trying to extrapolate all the scenarios presented in this thread. Some of you sure are some worrysome people. Whatever happen to collecting this stuff as a hobby? Everyone is now worried about how many beans they can get for either a 1 oz piece of gold or if it comes in the form of 10 1/10 oz pieces of gold
Just get back to collecting and enjoy your lives. If the shtf, it aint gonna matter that much for the majority of the people who post here anyway, because 80% of the worlds people would be dead in the first 2 minutes after nuclear attacks anyway, and one has to ask themselves if they really want to go on in a world after a shtf war of the worlds scenario. I'd fight for my family as long as I could, but if they perished, I wouldn't want to go on, and you can have my silver at that point.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
tell him to buy things he likes that he can enjoy and have fun with it. That said......bunch of govt silver bullion for variety, 90%, morgans and peace, various silver bars and rounds, foreign gold, and govt gold. Thats variety right there!
Successful Buying and Selling transactions with:
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Ok thanks for the comments. Hope full lee within two weeks we will see what he has come up with. Just hope he lets me hold some of it in my hand. Oilstates2003
It's not the amount of money you spend.... It's the enjoyment you get spending it..
Comments
Because looking at it is all it's good for between the time you buy and sell it.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>What is the point of paying any premium? >>
to increase your pool of buyers when it is time to sell. The most popular gold products (with the most buyers) have the higher premiums. More buyers provide more demand for the product. More demand provides higher prices.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
What is the point of paying any premium?
If you have 10,000 to spend at APMEX on gold , buy mexican 10 peso coins for 337.56 each then turn around and sell them back to APMEX instantly and you will lose $458
Now buy random date 1/4 ounce AGE's for 371.69 each then turn around and sell them back to APMEX instantly and you will lose $486
I don't see the advantage in dollars and with the peso's you have almost a half ounce more gold in your pocket. >>
You don't always have to sell to Apmex. You can sell on the BST, on eBay, etc... where you can get your premium back.
Pretty gold is pretty liquid, even at a premium to melt. Ugly (scrap) gold, you have to talk someone into taking it off your hands, and have to negotiate the discount to melt to cash it out.
In between is boring gold, which usually is fairly liquid at prices close to melt.
There's a spectrum. At one end is rare desirable collectible gold with huge premiums (gold melt is secondary or even trivial)
at the other end is a bunch of broken scrap jewelry and dental gold
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
<< <i>
What is the point of paying any premium?
If you have 10,000 to spend at APMEX on gold , buy mexican 10 peso coins for 337.56 each then turn around and sell them back to APMEX instantly and you will lose $458
Now buy random date 1/4 ounce AGE's for 371.69 each then turn around and sell them back to APMEX instantly and you will lose $486
I don't see the advantage in dollars and with the peso's you have almost a half ounce more gold in your pocket. >>
You don't always have to sell to Apmex. You can sell on the BST, on eBay, etc... where you can get your premium back. >>
I don't want to sell anything to APMEX , ever you have to sell over $10,000 at once to get the buyback prices they quote. That means I have to mail $10,000 in PM's halfway across the country. Plus I have to take a check.
If I sell on the BST , then "maybe" I get my premium back , "maybe" I don't. If I buy low premium gold then I get more , there is no maybe about it.
Nobody likes to quantify these premiums in terms of the percentage of spot. If spot rises , they disappear if spot falls they increase.
What is the premium on an ASE right now? 4$? that is about .2 oz of silver . If silver is $40 an ounce and you manage to get $4 back then you threw away .1 ounce of silver. How is that good?
Premiums only help if it craters . If it craters then getting out entirely pays better than selling your ASE's for 9$ each when spot is $6
Major changes in spot price create chaos in the market and premiums are hard to predict . I'm not nostradamus I can't predict pricing 5 years out , but I don't need to be if I just get more gold for the same price I'm always ahead.
<< <i>
<< <i>What is the point of paying any premium? >>
to increase your pool of buyers when it is time to sell. The most popular gold products (with the most buyers) have the higher premiums. More buyers provide more demand for the product. More demand provides higher prices. >>
Would also be about trust. More people are likely to have trust in AGEs than they are in one ounce gold bars, esp. if that gold bar is removed from its sealed packaging. Then again, any coin including AGEs [if originating from outside the U.S.] could possibly be counterfeit.
<< <i> If I sell on the BST , then "maybe" I get my premium back , "maybe" I don't. If I buy low premium gold then I get more , there is no maybe about it. >>
I have always gotten the premium back on BST (for premium products).
You have more gold but I have less gold with more premium.
You will have to sell your gold closer to spot because less popular. I will have more buyers willing to pay the premium for my product.
I now have a 300 Cruzeiros at melt on the BST. It has been sitting there for a couple of weeks with no takers.
One AGE at $80 over spot sold in two days back in February.
I knew it would happen.
The big bullion retailers are not the only source of PMs.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
What is the point of paying any premium?
If you have 10,000 to spend at APMEX on gold , buy mexican 10 peso coins for 337.56 each then turn around and sell them back to APMEX instantly and you will lose $458
Now buy random date 1/4 ounce AGE's for 371.69 each then turn around and sell them back to APMEX instantly and you will lose $486
I don't see the advantage in dollars and with the peso's you have almost a half ounce more gold in your pocket. >>
You don't always have to sell to Apmex. You can sell on the BST, on eBay, etc... where you can get your premium back. >>
What is the premium on an ASE right now? 4$? that is about .2 oz of silver . If silver is $40 an ounce and you manage to get $4 back then you threw away .1 ounce of silver. How is that good? >>
Right now at JMBullion it is about $2.70 on a 100 or more coin purchase. Of course it will/may be higher if you buy from a B & M or smaller quantities. If I was buying right now, I wouldn't pay any more than what a big bullion house is selling them for. If the price drops another $10 or more per roll, I'm buying.
<< <i>Premium products draw premium prices. >>
This is y silver will not be used/recognized as money/currency by a world bank system...
And gold "premiums" will disappear if so recognized..
can you imagine, "I know it weighs one ounce of silver, but it's worth 14% more than other silver, because of the design and grade! I'm gonna need 1.14 lbs of beans in exchange for this nice piece of silver!"
also,
"we can't melt that and make some transistors! It's slabbed!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
<< <i>Premium products draw premium prices. >>
This is y silver will not be used/recognized as money/currency by a world bank system...
And gold "premiums" will disappear if so recognized.. >>
Current worldwide "money/currency" have premiums. They are constantly changing in the FOREX market.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Premium products draw premium prices. >>
This is y silver will not be used/recognized as money/currency by a world bank system...
And gold "premiums" will disappear if so recognized.. >>
Current worldwide "money/currency" have premiums. They are constantly changing in the FOREX market. >>
Pretty hilarious, your theories always seem to contradict what u seem to propagate/believe ... Gold or silver have no country...
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Premium products draw premium prices. >>
This is y silver will not be used/recognized as money/currency by a world bank system...
And gold "premiums" will disappear if so recognized.. >>
Current worldwide "money/currency" have premiums. They are constantly changing in the FOREX market. >>
Pretty hilarious, your theories always seem to contradict what u seem to propagate/believe ... Gold or silver have no country... >>
FOREX is not a theory. It's a place where currency values actually rise and fall. You claimed once something becomes "money" it won't carry a premium. I showed you that it does.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
your assumption forex would be viable in a new currency era, I guess could happen...
I'm more in camp if anything ever really happens that gold will dictate fiat value, not currently fiat dictating gold price...
Perception dictates fiat value. I prefer to think in terms of "how many dollars will my ounce of gold buy" and "the value of my gold is not changing, it is the value of the dollar that is changing."
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Once again gold, silver have no country, in any country they are still gold n silver...
<< <i>Once again gold, silver have no country, in any country they are still gold n silver... >>
This why they are real money.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>Once again gold, silver have no country, in any country they are still gold n silver... >>
This why they are real money. >>
And that's why 1oz = 1oz , and there will be no premiums...lol
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Once again gold, silver have no country, in any country they are still gold n silver... >>
This why they are real money. >>
And that's why 1oz = 1oz , and there will be no premiums...lol >>
let me know where you are able to trade a one oz gold eagle for ten one-tenth ounce gold eagles and not pay a premium for the tenth ouncers. I'll take a piece of that action.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Once again gold, silver have no country, in any country they are still gold n silver... >>
This why they are real money. >>
And that's why 1oz = 1oz , and there will be no premiums...lol >>
let me know where you are able to trade a one oz gold eagle for ten one-tenth ounce gold eagles and not pay a premium for the tenth ouncers. I'll take a piece of that action.
Or take a 1 ounce gold bar and a 1 ounce AGE into your local B & M and see what he'll offer you for each one.
Just get back to collecting and enjoy your lives. If the shtf, it aint gonna matter that much for the majority of the people who post here anyway, because 80% of the worlds people would be dead in the first 2 minutes after nuclear attacks anyway, and one has to ask themselves if they really want to go on in a world after a shtf war of the worlds scenario. I'd fight for my family as long as I could, but if they perished, I wouldn't want to go on, and you can have my silver at that point.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Oilstates2003
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