Prepare for a gold ‘moonshot’: Peter Schiff

bluelobster

" he blames 2013's 30 percent decline on investors' inability to see the truth he perceives clearly"

Glad ole' Peter sees the truth so clearly, while us mere mortals try to grapple with it everyday.


Shockingly, Peter calls for gold to shoot up

You have to love people that predict with certainty, even when there is none.

ricko

I like the idea.... however, most of these predictions are as good as mine - sometimes they are right, mostly wrong.... Cheers, RickO

derryb

Schiff has been proven correct many times particulary leading up to 2008 crisis and gold's previous rise. He sees things clearly and he will be correct once again.

Baley

Prepare? I'm prepared, many ounces for sale at $1900, and many more for sale at $2300. So... when?

OPA

<< <i>" he blames 2013's 30 percent decline on investors' inability to see the truth he perceives clearly"

Glad ole' Peter sees the truth so clearly, while us mere mortals try to grapple with it everyday.


Shockingly, Peter calls for gold to shoot up

You have to love people that predict with certainty, even when there is none. >>



Yup...I'm placing him in the same boat as J.S. ... both are trying to regain some credibility after several years of missing the boat with their predictions.

derryb

how soon we forget that he called the last gold bull market and for housing to shoot down and was ignored, even laughed at. He's still got his finger on the economic pulse. Problem is the economic bloodstream has been poisoned making timing difficult for everyone. He will be proven correct once again, I have no doubt.

tneig

I agree w/respect ur fundamentals derryb and what Schiff is saying on an overall level, as the currency/fiat will shutter at some point.

But in the intermediate levels of up and down, I'm not sure even the big boys have a handle on it.
This recent big drop and break of the ever growing up trend, did teach me to put the big drop
possibilities into perspective and consider what may happen (to me) with ups and downs in the meantime.

They tell me Schiff is credible, but the words "could" and defensive tone, came out a lot in the sentences.
Seriously, Regarding the QE, I wonder because its been a path of increasing QE and PMs still
dropped drastically. I think QE, debt, bad management will increase until it starts to break,
then we will have to live with down ratings again, and if bad, the leaders will just screw some over,
like china, and you and me citizens in general.

Economy and monetary system strength from now on is going to stay a juggling ponzi scheme.
Its never going to get stable because its built on juggling. (and keeping the pawns moving)
So be prepared.

So for me, I can see how it will go up again certainly. I don't like the shock value
words such as "shoot up." For me I think; when and it if does go way up again,
what do I do, keep or sell at that time? Because it can go down again too.

I'm glad in away I'm dealing with 2 decades left and not counting on fiat or SS in 40 years.

derryb

Schiff clearly understands that the 2008 problems have not been fixed, the attempts to do so will make the next round much worse, and that housing is being reinflated. Like a few others he understands that debt was the problem in 2008 and it remains the problem. He often uses the "kicking the can down the road" comparison and he is 100% correct. Eventually they will get to the cul-de-sac.

If physical gold were not priced according to futures contract pricing it would have already "shot" up. Eventually it will break free but not without a strong fight from those who do not want it to happen. For now, they call the shots.

cohodk

" he blames 2013's 30 percent decline on investors' inability to see the truth he perceives clearly"

Thats the best definition for denial I have ever hear.

I think he's a bright guy, but has no concept the roles of time and human psychology play in investing. With his experience he should have learned this by now. Bright guy but arrogant. That doesnt make for a good money manager.

cohodk

If physical gold were not priced according to futures contract pricing it would have already "shot" up.

Says who?

Some might argue that because phsyical gold and silver are relatively illiquid and unobtainable, interest in them would be virtually nil. Believe it or not, there is only a very small population who values gold the way many on this board do. PMs could easily fall victim to apathy.

jmski52

I think that "moonshot" is a bit of an overstatement. But it would be fun.

derryb

physical demand is not much less than it was at price peaks. Suppy has not increased drastically. Paper futures appear to have infinite supply since they are primarily backed by nothing. If paper futures pricing is not keeping physical price down, what is?

From Schiff's latest

"Some investors avoid the gold market because of its innate unofficial nature. But in a time when governments are in a race to tax anything that moves and inflate anything that prints, gold's privacy becomes the difference between preserving wealth or facing destitution. I challenge my readers to worry less about the short-term movements in the gold futures market, or even which central bank has what holdings. Understand that gold is a deep, global market that has witnessed the rise and fall of countless empires. Your decision is simple: you either own it, or you don't."

Baley

Your decision is simple: you either own it, or you don't."

Laughable! So it's a simple decision to own a single gram of gold? One and done? Or is it a MUCH more complicated decision of what percentage of your assets to allocate to gold? and strategy/timing for ramping in and back out of it?

Oh, no, it's simple...

100% gold, 24/7 baby!

jmski52

It's simple. Do I believe that contract law will be enforced, or not? Do I believe that the debt problem is real, or not? Do I believe that the bailouts will continue, or not? Do I believe that the cronyism emanating out of DC will ever affect me directly, or not? Oh, I just can't decide!

Baley

If paper futures pricing is not keeping physical price down, what is?

Sellers.

cohodk

If paper futures pricing is not keeping physical price down, what is? 


The question is presumptive.

TwoSides2aCoin

My thinking is to find a comfortable entry point, swim in it but don't drown in it.

Justacommeman

Personally I think Peter is spending too much time pandering for the cameras and not enough time on his Euro Pacific business

MJ

derryb

<< <i> If paper futures pricing is not keeping physical price down, what is? 


The question is presumptive. >>


the answer is avoiditive.

sumrtym

<< <i>" he blames 2013's 30 percent decline on investors' inability to see the truth he perceives clearly" >>


Good to know he's not wrong, it's just everyone else. After all, it was a 36% decline in the price of silver to under $20 last year while he was calling for $50 again.

Baley

Is "sellers" too unclear? How about, "people willing to accept prices near paper spot for junk (that is, non- "collector premium") pieces of gold.

No? is something ELSE making spot for non-premium (i.e., non- added profit for somebody to market to "collectors") gold stay close to the futures contract price?

please tell us it's not the infamous "them" Oh no! They're against "us"

cohodk

<< <i>

<< <i> If paper futures pricing is not keeping physical price down, what is? 


The question is presumptive. >>


the answer is avoiditive. >>



I do not subscribe to your presumptive thinking therefore cannot offer an answer. You are also assuming that physical pricing is being "kept down". Without factual basis to argue, the only debate would be regarding your opinion.

derryb

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i> If paper futures pricing is not keeping physical price down, what is? 


The question is presumptive. >>


the answer is avoiditive. >>



I do not subscribe to your presumptive thinking therefore cannot offer an answer. You are also assuming that physical pricing is being "kept down". Without factual basis to argue, the only debate would be regarding your opinion. >>


Valid question in light of the fact that physical demand continues to grow and prices continue to fall. Normally supply and demand determine price. What makes physical gold and silver pricing different than the norm?

Baley

the fact that physical demand continues to grow

is that a "fact"? If it were a fact, and supply was constant, then prices would rise. If in FACT demand is up, and prices are stable or down, then SUPPLY must be changing (increasing)

there is no way around supply-demand-quantity-price relationships, in the aggregate

micro examples to the contrary (exceptions in time or space) are just that, exceptions.

derryb

<< <i>the fact that physical demand continues to grow

is that a "fact"? If it were a fact, and supply was constant, then prices would rise. If in FACT demand is up, and prices are stable or down, then SUPPLY must be changing (increasing)

there is no way around supply-demand-quantity-price relationships, in the aggregate

micro examples to the contrary (exceptions in time or space) are just that, exceptions. >>


Mints around the world continue to report growing demand for bullion and growing physical premiums validate increased demand.

The way around a supply/demand price relationship is to peg the price to something else where supply and demand can be easily increased or decreased by select players - namely the futures market where supply of promises is limited only by imagination. Face it, physical price basis is set by spot price. Spot price is set by paper promises. A leveraged futures market is what keeps the price of physical artificially low. It will take a run on the bullion banks to divorce physical pricing from paper pricing. And it will occur.

Baley

Mints around the world continue to report growing demand for bullion and growing physical premiums validate increased demand.

You make a good point, and here's my retort: how much of that "bullion" is bought in order to be submitted for grading, with the winners marketed to collectors for large premiums to melt?

I guess my point continues to be: Metal sells for metal price. collectors items sell for collector item prices, which is metal price plus whatever premium the seller can get for it.

Lots of people confuse the two, and/or use characteristics of one to make a point a case about the other. Some folks use arguments for one in order to create demand for the other and/or increase their sales and profit

cohodk

A leveraged futures market is what keeps the price of physical artificially low. I

Or artificially high?

Increasing demand does not equate to higher prices if supply is increasing, and lower prices could also be a result of supply increasing faster than demand. So you see it is quite presumptive to conclude something nefarious.

jmski52

So you see it is quite presumptive to conclude something nefarious.

To quote Bob Dylan, "you don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows..." Sometimes you have to take the evidence at face value.

derryb

<< <i>So you see it is quite presumptive to conclude something nefarious.

To quote Bob Dylan, "you don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows..." Sometimes you have to take the evidence at face value. >>


Or just ignore it.

Baley

Oh, I listens! I believes! I bought me a buncha gold based on all I've read here and elseswhere!!

WHEN do I get to sell for $2000 or $3000 or $5000 per ounce????????

(not today I guess)

cohodk

<< <i>So you see it is quite presumptive to conclude something nefarious.

To quote Bob Dylan, "you don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows..." Sometimes you have to take the evidence at face value. >>



I'm still waiting for evidence. Prove to me gold is being "held down".

derryb

the proof's in the pudding.

Baley

The light of truth will shine soon enough

Amen

yellowkid

<< <i>I like the idea.... however, most of these predictions are as good as mine - sometimes they are right, mostly wrong.... Cheers, RickO >>

jmski52

I'm still waiting for evidence. Prove to me gold is being "held down".

Since we've debated this question for years, how about I just list what I consider to be prima facia evidence? Will that tide you over?

1) The case that GATA has presented to CFTC on silver manipulation that has been foot-drug for years and then recently dismissed. If you haven't gone over the details, you might consider it, I have.

2) The details from leakers such as Andrew Maguire.

3) The Libor scandal.

4) The ridiculous dance around Germany's repatriation request.

5) The regularly-scheduled slam-downs on low volume.

6) Of course, the lack of any public accountability at Ft. Knox.

7) Analysis of HFT on ZeroHedge from charts on minicontracts that clearly show the price manipulation without trading volume actually taking place

8) Formation of alternative trading platforms and bilateral trade agreements that exclude the USD.

9) Unidentified market participants having transient unlimited naked short positions, while similar type unlimited naked long positions are prohibited by the exchanges.

10) The need to suppress gold as a contrary indicator to maintain government financing based on fractional reserve banking, massive debt monetization and massive government overspending.

As far as "evidence" is concerned, I'm not waiting for the official government announcement by Janet Yellen that the Fed is being collateralized by MyRA accounts being held in escrow as brand spanking new 50-year Treasury Bonds, and that your money is now Double Safe & Rock Solidly Secure Backed by the Full Faith & Credit of the US Government and all of the Promises a Politician can Dream Up.

secondrepublic

<< <i>
4) The ridiculous dance around Germany's repatriation request. >>



A particularly powerful example of there being something seriously amiss.



<< <i> As far as "evidence" is concerned, I'm not waiting for the official government announcement by Janet Yellen that the Fed is being collateralized by MyRA accounts being held in escrow as brand spanking new 50-year Treasury Bonds, and that your money is now Double Safe & Rock Solidly Secure Backed by the Full Faith & Credit of the US Government and all of the Promises a Politician can Dream Up. >>



+1

sumrtym

<< <i>
1) The case that GATA has presented to CFTC on silver manipulation that has been foot-drug for years and then recently dismissed. If you haven't gone over the details, you might consider it, I have.

2) The details from leakers such as Andrew Maguire.
>>


Oh, GATA. The ones that brought us the "leaker" Andrew Maguire, whom they tried to pass off as an industry expert with 30 years experience as an inside metals trader. Except he never worked for whom he said, had NO experience as a metals trader, but is entirely in vehicle car leasing. Yes, a close relative of a used car salesman.

cohodk

<< <i>If I sold the same car to 100 people, I would be guilty of Fraud. When Bullion banks sell the same ounce of Gold to 100 (or more) people it's called "The Future's Market". This is not "traditional" supply and demand as studied in Econ 101 - this is control of price via inflated supply, thus corrupting the real supply/demand fundamentals.

There is none so blind as those who will not see.... >>



Nor so blind as to see what other tell them.

Incorrect analogy. Closer, but still miles away, would be selling a condo to 52 different people. This is quite common and entirely legal. Whats incorrect about your analogy is that the buyers of gold from the bullion banks are not interested in gold. Rather they are interested in the price movements, and this is what they are buying. The buyers have no interest in the physical as they almost never take delivery. It is no different than stock options--very few are ever exercised.

There is a true physical supply/demand market. We see it everyday and it is written about in these threads---coins shows, Ebay deals, BST, ect.

Gold is perceived to be "kept down", only because it was higher 2 years ago. No one ever wrote that gold was being "kept up".

cohodk

<< <i>[qI'm still waiting for evidence. Prove to me gold is being "held down". >>



Do your own homework! No matter what evidence is offered, just like the CFTC, you still would not "see" anything. Andrew Maguire handed two JP Morgan whistle blowers that had evidence and were prepared to testify regarding JP Morgan's manipulation of the metals markets to the CFTC, and the CFTC didn't "see" anything, either. Well, the CFTC didn't say that there was no manipulation, they simply said that they had no "actionable evidence to prosecute" (they are not going to prosecute their bosses, as that would be hazardous to one's health).
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/9/13_Morgan_Whistleblowers_Confess_Bank_Manipulates_Gold_&_Silver.html

No "outsider" has ever seen the Federal Reserve's "books", so who really knows how many "$$$s" they have created???? We didn't find out about the $15T Euro bailout for over a year, how many more "surprises" are there hidden in those books?... You can put your trust in those incompetent liars and their paper promises, but I sure won't....

Personally, I don't give a crap what you and Baley think, but you do provide entertainment. It will be too late when you finally "see" it, but that is your problem, not mine. I'll "get real" and think for myself, thank you. The light of truth will shine soon enough.

Have a nice day! >>




You seemed to have missed the MANY times I have said I'd be a buyer of gold in the $1200 and silver under $20. Maybe you were too busy looking for conspiracy theories.

I'm also hearing lots of emotion in your writing. Emotion and clear judgment do not go hand in hand. You write of thinking for yourself yet cite the work, rhetoric, fantasies, misinformation, conspiracy theory of others.

Please expound upon the $15 trillion euro bailout and show me where $15 trillion was created, printed, ect. I want to "see".

Baley

what you and Baley think, but you do provide entertainment.

I can't speak for Cohodk, but personally, it's good to know that my hairbrained, crackpot, fringe-dwelling notions are entertaining for you to read and comment on

Baley

I will ask Cohodk, though, about your choice of avatar, from among all the very large number of options, you have chosen a very rare and quite beautiful object made of precious metal?

I guess folks choose an avatar as a tiny form of self-expression

guitarwes

I just love you'se guys.

sumrtym

<< <i>Do your own homework! No matter what evidence is offered, just like the CFTC, you still would not "see" anything. Andrew Maguire handed two JP Morgan whistle blowers that had evidence and were prepared to testify regarding JP Morgan's manipulation of the metals markets to the CFTC, and the CFTC didn't "see" anything, either. Well, the CFTC didn't say that there was no manipulation, they simply said that they had no "actionable evidence to prosecute" (they are not going to prosecute their bosses, as that would be hazardous to one's health).
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/9/13_Morgan_Whistleblowers_Confess_Bank_Manipulates_Gold_&_Silver.html >>


Again, Andrew Maguire was a fraud.
http://www.kitco.com/news/2013-10-24/KitcoNews20131024DA-CPM-Group-Alleges-Whistleblower-Maguire-Has-No-Metals-History-Silver-Summit.html

rawteam1

Here may be some pertinent info...
I've been a customer of Verizon since day 1, many, many years...150 a month, 2 cells unlimited everything plus shared 2 gig...
Today to AT&T, 80 and same unl usage but 3 gig per phone...
Some pretty big deflation, will do some diligence on a Verizon short...

forgot to add, also came with 2 new free iphones...

derryb

<< <i>Again, Andrew Maguire was a fraud.
http://www.kitco.com/news/2013-10-24/KitcoNews20131024DA-CPM-Group-Alleges-Whistleblower-Maguire-Has-No-Metals-History-Silver-Summit.html >>



Is he?

One must understand that the "fraud" charges are coming from the very people Maquire has been blowing the whistle on.

And yes, foreign banks with US branches received loads of QE money.

And yes, thinking for one's self does involve an awareness of what others are saying/claiming. The best decisions are the ones made with the most information.

sumrtym

<< <i>

<< <i>Again, Andrew Maguire was a fraud.
http://www.kitco.com/news/2013-10-24/KitcoNews20131024DA-CPM-Group-Alleges-Whistleblower-Maguire-Has-No-Metals-History-Silver-Summit.html >>



Is he? >>


Yes, yes, he is.

derryb

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Again, Andrew Maguire was a fraud.
http://www.kitco.com/news/2013-10-24/KitcoNews20131024DA-CPM-Group-Alleges-Whistleblower-Maguire-Has-No-Metals-History-Silver-Summit.html >>



Is he? >>


Yes, yes, he is. >>


Are you sure?

jmski52

One must understand that the "fraud" charges are coming from the very people Maquire has been blowing the whistle on.

Well, I suppose that CPM's chairman could stand before the Silver Summit and confess, "you got me". But it's unlikely.

cohodk

in an effort to make yourself appear superior. What a hypocrite.



Not a hypocrite if I am superior.


cohodk seem to be the most vocal in denial of any kind of external market influece.

I believe there is a massive market force in play-----its called the MARKET.


That $16 trillion was not money just handed out for nothing. Much of it has come back either directly to the FED or through higher tax receipts as a result of an economy that did not fall into a Depression. This money also replaced the money that was created by the banks and subsequently lost. In effect there really isnt much more money out there than 5 years ago. Thats why inflation has been so tame. Also, before all this "money printing" gold was at $400. Now its at $1300. Dont you think there might just be a slight possibility that gold has already priced-in "all that is evident and seen"?

From a person who finds sentiment much more important than "fundamentals", I am encouraged by your feeling of frustration. I think thats a good sign. And I believe many more feel as you do, but are veiling those feelings behind manipulation and conspiracy theories.


I also like The Simpson's.

cohodk

Thanks for the comment on my avatar Bailey. Yes it is made of a precious metal--- a 3 oz chunk of gold made into a collectible round by Tiffanys in 1858. Q. David Bowers owned an example--the 6th known of a mintage of 50. My example would be the 7th known. Only the now deceased previous owner and myself have seen this particular medal in the last 40 years, so mine is only known via a small picture in an internet chatroom.

jmski52

Isn't it closer to $17 trillion?

When it all comes down to it, isn't it just a shell game being run by the bankers and politicians? I mean, really? Hasn't it always been? The point being, either you're on the inside or you're not. And if you're not and happen to ask questions, then you're labeled a conspiracy nut. It's that simple.

But if you're on the inside and then leave the circle of trust to expose the scheme, you are subject to all kinds of attacks, true? Like Maguire.

If you choose to ignore every rotten deal from the government and the system, you might just make it through life ok. If you focus on living, you're always better off. At least, you are until disaster hits, but hey - that's not something that happens around here. Is it?

That $17 trillion isn't the whole picture. Nobody's going to actually pay for the outstanding unfunded liabilities of the $1,700 gazillion (or more). At least not with dollars. But we'll all pay in various ways. Keep stackin.


Haha, cohodk. Clever, that's what I like about you! Do we get a bigger pic of your medal?