The USA is fortunate to have enormous resources in valuable goods and technology, and "systems" that can back the dollar; the gold is nice, but pretty effin far from all we got thats worth anything. In fact, whether the 8300 tons or there or not, or part, its a tiny percentage
The US still owns the world's reserve currency. And those 8300 tonnes of gold in inventory have a huge influence on the dollar's perceived value and liquidity to our trade partners. Symbolism is an expensive notion in this case.
If the gold is indeed gone there is no way the US govt will give up that information.
Symbolism is one thing, insurance is another. If the gold has been sold, or leased, or rehypothecated away, the issue becomes "will the system blow up from a jump in interest rates?" (Yes) And if it blows up, how badly will the US fare if there is no insurance in place? (Badly)
Granted, we have resources and defense systems and technology. We also have distorted markets and a monetary system that may cease to work.
That's how I see it.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>The USA is fortunate to have enormous resources in valuable goods and technology, and "systems" that can back the dollar; >>
>>
The only thing that backs the dollar is one's belief that the next guy will accept it as payment.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>The USA is fortunate to have enormous resources in valuable goods and technology, and "systems" that can back the dollar; >>
>>
The only thing that backs the dollar is one's belief that the next guy will accept it as payment. >>
Isn't that also true with PM's or any Asset? There needs to be a medium of exchange and the good old US Dollar is the top dog, 20lb Gorilla and no paranoid conspiracy advocate is going to change that.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>There needs to be a medium of exchange and the good old US Dollar is the top dog, 20lb Gorilla and no paranoid conspiracy advocate is going to change that. >>
That is changing as we speak.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>If you think so highly of China and it's currency, then why don't you move there? >>
Plenty of opportunity right here thanks to those like you who think patriotism means accepting what they are told.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
"ASX, the Australian Stock-Exchange operator and the Bank of China announced today that they are going to provide a Yuan settlement service between the two countries by the end of the first half-year 2014. China represents the biggest trading partner for the Australian market and trading in Dollars has no sense today. Transactions have been increasingly made in Yuan rather than the Dollar over the past few years. This new agreement comes just after last October’s agreement between the Eurozone and China and the currency-swap deal."
"Remember it’s not the value of the Dollar that is important or whether or not the Yuan can be a valued asset in the world to trade with, it’s the perception that we, as consumers and countries, actually have of that currency. The Australians are showing that the Yuan has just been perceived as possibly of greater value than the Dollar.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Isn't that also true with PM's or any Asset? >>
No out of control administration is capable of quadrupling the world supply of gold or silver with a keystroke.
These maintained value pretty well!
>>
Not sure where you came up with the quadrupling of PM comment. I don't recall any reference to that.... Nice Note, but is it worth 2 x double eagles + 1 x eagle both graded ms62?
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>8300 tonnes of gold in inventory have a huge influence on the dollar's perceived value a Only to a very few people. It has no influence on the value I place on the dollar. None. Let's suppose there was an audit and all the shiny yellow chunks of metal were there. What would happen to the price of gold? >>
I suspect the price of gold would stay about the same. Current price is based on all the gold being there and titled to the USA. Without hard proof, we assume it's so. The current price of gold is based on currencies, debt positions, real interest rates/TBonds, business conditions, investment supply vs. demand, and faith in govt. If all the gold weren't there that's a wild card currently unaccounted for. You'd probably see a $100/oz - $200/oz jump in a couple of days if a report/statement was issued that the gold had been sold/leased away. J6P in the street may not care one way or the other. But, those movers and shakers in the financial markets would raise an immediate fuss. As long as all 8300 tonnes are there, it also has no influence on the value I place on the dollar. For now, I'm going by the 6 things mentioned above.
So if you knew tonight that a report was coming out in the morning that 30% of US gold reserves are gone, you wouldn't want to be immediately long as much gold as you could afford?....or maybe heavily short the dollar? Or do you really think the markets would ignore the news and do nothing? What about gold priced in other currencies? I think this might be of importance to Asians and Europeans as well since that would be 2500 tonnes of US gold no longer supporting our debt, economy, the reserve currency, our trade positions, and symbolic good will. And if the USA has 30% less gold, well that makes it a little harder to pay back Germany's 350 tonnes. I would think every nation with gold stored in the NY FED vaults would immediately ask for theirs back or to be moved to another vault not in US custodial hands....effectively a run on bank gold supplies.
Current price is based on all the gold being there and titled to the USA
Is it really? Seems to me there is a lot of the price is based on speculation that there is no gold and anyone holding paper dollars is a fool and will be become subservient to the Govt?
So if you knew tonight that a report was coming out in the morning that 30% of US gold reserves are gone, you wouldn't want to be immediately long as much gold as you could afford?
I think the markets would interpret this to be so and trade it accordingly. That would not make the USA any less a global superpower. Walmart would still sell crap. GM would sell cars. People would eat at McDonalds. Airplanes would still fly and hospitals continue to treat a growing population of older people. Gold bugs would say "I told you so." and stock market bugs would smile back and point to a stock market going higher. If you dont believe the stock market would go up then you should look at the Japanese market over the last 18 months as the Yen dropped.
<< <i>Current price is based on all the gold being there and titled to the USA
Is it really? Seems to me there is a lot of the price is based on speculation that there is no gold and anyone holding paper dollars is a fool and will be become subservient to the Govt?
So if you knew tonight that a report was coming out in the morning that 30% of US gold reserves are gone, you wouldn't want to be immediately long as much gold as you could afford?
I think the markets would interpret this to be so and trade it accordingly. That would not make the USA any less a global superpower. Walmart would still sell crap. GM would sell cars. People would eat at McDonalds. Airplanes would still fly and hospitals continue to treat a growing population of older people. Gold bugs would say "I told you so." and stock market bugs would smile back and point to a stock market going higher. If you dont believe the stock market would go up then you should look at the Japanese market over the last 18 months as the Yen dropped. >>
Yes, it is. You only have to ask yourself where the gold price go to tomorrow on news of a 30% US gold reserves loss....and whether that gyration in price would last more than a few hours or days. I'm pretty sure it would. This has no bearing on Walmart, GM, or McD's. Gold going from $35 to $875 in the 1970's had little to no bearing on what people eat or pay at McD's. It would be no different today. The price of gold is relatively independent of the price or supply/demand curve for a Big Mac. The stock market might indeed go higher on that news. But PM and commodity prices would blister the stock market returns. Let's not forget that gold is a world commodity that is most heavily affected by Asian and European demand. Even if J6P and Joe Hedge Fund have little use for gold, the other 80%-90% of the world does.
I will make one last comment. Do you think if the very men who's job it was to guard the gold could never be trusted to even glimce the bars that they actually exist?
<< <i>I will make one last comment. Do you think if the very men who's job it was to guard the gold could never be trusted to even glimce the bars that they actually exist? >>
<< <i>I will make one last comment. Do you think if the very men who's job it was to guard the gold could never be trusted to even glimce the bars that they actually exist? >>
Yes. Never underestimate a human being. >>
including those who control their nation's savings.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>I will make one last comment. Do you think if the very men who's job it was to guard the gold could never be trusted to even glimce the bars that they actually exist? >>
Yes. Never underestimate a human being. >>
including those who control their nation's savings. >>
My best guess answer... there is gold but ownership is questionable. Also may be some gold plated tungsten for appearances when anyone is given the rare opportunity to look inside.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I'm an official government conspiracy theorist so I know for a fact Bin Laden stole all the gold in Fort Knox from a cave in Afghanistan. If he can demolish skyscrapers from the other side of the planet he can do anything. We need more fascist security stuff to keep the fatherland, er, um, homeland safe and secure!
Concerning the gold held at Fort Knox and in NY, I'm sure it's still there. That doesn't mean that the gold hasn't been hypothecated or promised for something else, such as to the FED banks. The question is, does the US still own it?
Comments
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
If the gold is indeed gone there is no way the US govt will give up that information.
Symbolism is one thing, insurance is another. If the gold has been sold, or leased, or rehypothecated away, the issue becomes "will the system blow up from a jump in interest rates?" (Yes) And if it blows up, how badly will the US fare if there is no insurance in place? (Badly)
Granted, we have resources and defense systems and technology. We also have distorted markets and a monetary system that may cease to work.
That's how I see it.
I knew it would happen.
Only to a very few people. It has no influence on the value I place on the dollar. None.
Let's suppose there was an audit and all the shiny yellow chunks of metal were there. What would happen to the price of gold?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>The USA is fortunate to have enormous resources in valuable goods and technology, and "systems" that can back the dollar; >>
<< <i>
<< <i>The USA is fortunate to have enormous resources in valuable goods and technology, and "systems" that can back the dollar; >>
The only thing that backs the dollar is one's belief that the next guy will accept it as payment.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The USA is fortunate to have enormous resources in valuable goods and technology, and "systems" that can back the dollar; >>
The only thing that backs the dollar is one's belief that the next guy will accept it as payment. >>
Isn't that also true with PM's or any Asset? There needs to be a medium of exchange and the good old US Dollar is the top dog, 20lb Gorilla and no paranoid conspiracy advocate is going to change that.
<< <i>There needs to be a medium of exchange and the good old US Dollar is the top dog, 20lb Gorilla and no paranoid conspiracy advocate is going to change that. >>
That is changing as we speak.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>If you think so highly of China and it's currency, then why don't you move there? >>
Plenty of opportunity right here thanks to those like you who think patriotism means accepting what they are told.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Isn't that also true with PM's or any Asset? >>
No out of control administration is capable of quadrupling the world supply of gold or silver with a keystroke.
These maintained value pretty well!
"ASX, the Australian Stock-Exchange operator and the Bank of China announced today that they are going to provide a Yuan settlement service between the two countries by the end of the first half-year 2014. China represents the biggest trading partner for the Australian market and trading in Dollars has no sense today. Transactions have been increasingly made in Yuan rather than the Dollar over the past few years. This new agreement comes just after last October’s agreement between the Eurozone and China and the currency-swap deal."
"Remember it’s not the value of the Dollar that is important or whether or not the Yuan can be a valued asset in the world to trade with, it’s the perception that we, as consumers and countries, actually have of that currency. The Australians are showing that the Yuan has just been perceived as possibly of greater value than the Dollar.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>Isn't that also true with PM's or any Asset? >>
No out of control administration is capable of quadrupling the world supply of gold or silver with a keystroke.
These maintained value pretty well!
Not sure where you came up with the quadrupling of PM comment. I don't recall any reference to that.... Nice Note, but is it worth 2 x double eagles + 1 x eagle both graded ms62?
Wow, you're a mind reader also!!!
For the record, I accept my own research, not that of some blogger or newsletter salesman. Exactly who is accepting what is being told?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
The Australians are showing that the Yuan has just been perceived as possibly of greater value than the Dollar--more opinion.
Perhaps it is the Chinese who feel this way and Australia is just accommodating them for facilitating transaction? Perhaps it is another reason.
The US dollar will be alive and well long after we are derryb.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>The US dollar will be alive and well long after we are derryb. >>
It will continue to trade, just as over produced currencies of other mismanaged economies do, at a greatly diminished value.
One senses it most notably when making an infrequent purchase.
<< <i>8300 tonnes of gold in inventory have a huge influence on the dollar's perceived value a
Only to a very few people. It has no influence on the value I place on the dollar. None.
Let's suppose there was an audit and all the shiny yellow chunks of metal were there. What would happen to the price of gold? >>
I suspect the price of gold would stay about the same. Current price is based on all the gold being there and titled to the USA. Without hard proof, we assume it's so. The current price of gold is based on currencies, debt positions, real interest rates/TBonds, business conditions, investment supply vs. demand, and faith in govt. If all the gold weren't there that's a wild card currently unaccounted for. You'd probably see a $100/oz - $200/oz jump in a couple of days if a report/statement was issued that the gold had been sold/leased away. J6P in the street may not care one way or the other. But, those movers and shakers in the financial markets would raise an immediate fuss. As long as all 8300 tonnes are there, it also has no influence on the value I place on the dollar. For now, I'm going by the 6 things mentioned above.
So if you knew tonight that a report was coming out in the morning that 30% of US gold reserves are gone, you wouldn't want to be immediately long as much gold as you could afford?....or maybe heavily short the dollar?
Or do you really think the markets would ignore the news and do nothing? What about gold priced in other currencies? I think this might be of importance to Asians and Europeans as well since that would be 2500 tonnes of US
gold no longer supporting our debt, economy, the reserve currency, our trade positions, and symbolic good will. And if the USA has 30% less gold, well that makes it a little harder to pay back Germany's 350 tonnes. I would
think every nation with gold stored in the NY FED vaults would immediately ask for theirs back or to be moved to another vault not in US custodial hands....effectively a run on bank gold supplies.
Is it really? Seems to me there is a lot of the price is based on speculation that there is no gold and anyone holding paper dollars is a fool and will be become subservient to the Govt?
So if you knew tonight that a report was coming out in the morning that 30% of US gold reserves are gone, you wouldn't want to be immediately long as much gold as you could afford?
I think the markets would interpret this to be so and trade it accordingly. That would not make the USA any less a global superpower. Walmart would still sell crap. GM would sell cars. People would eat at McDonalds. Airplanes would still fly and hospitals continue to treat a growing population of older people. Gold bugs would say "I told you so." and stock market bugs would smile back and point to a stock market going higher. If you dont believe the stock market would go up then you should look at the Japanese market over the last 18 months as the Yen dropped.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Current price is based on all the gold being there and titled to the USA
Is it really? Seems to me there is a lot of the price is based on speculation that there is no gold and anyone holding paper dollars is a fool and will be become subservient to the Govt?
So if you knew tonight that a report was coming out in the morning that 30% of US gold reserves are gone, you wouldn't want to be immediately long as much gold as you could afford?
I think the markets would interpret this to be so and trade it accordingly. That would not make the USA any less a global superpower. Walmart would still sell crap. GM would sell cars. People would eat at McDonalds. Airplanes would still fly and hospitals continue to treat a growing population of older people. Gold bugs would say "I told you so." and stock market bugs would smile back and point to a stock market going higher. If you dont believe the stock market would go up then you should look at the Japanese market over the last 18 months as the Yen dropped. >>
Yes, it is. You only have to ask yourself where the gold price go to tomorrow on news of a 30% US gold reserves loss....and whether that gyration in price would last more than a few hours or days. I'm pretty sure it would.
This has no bearing on Walmart, GM, or McD's. Gold going from $35 to $875 in the 1970's had little to no bearing on what people eat or pay at McD's. It would be no different today. The price of gold is relatively independent
of the price or supply/demand curve for a Big Mac. The stock market might indeed go higher on that news. But PM and commodity prices would blister the stock market returns. Let's not forget that gold is a world commodity
that is most heavily affected by Asian and European demand. Even if J6P and Joe Hedge Fund have little use for gold, the other 80%-90% of the world does.
"The United States Bullion Depository Fort Knox, Kentucky
Amount of present gold holdings: 147.3 million ounces."
I also believe the US owns all the gold there.
<< <i>I will make one last comment. Do you think if the very men who's job it was to guard the gold could never be trusted to even glimce the bars that they actually exist? >>
Yes. Never underestimate a human being.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
<< <i>I will make one last comment. Do you think if the very men who's job it was to guard the gold could never be trusted to even glimce the bars that they actually exist? >>
Yes. Never underestimate a human being. >>
including those who control their nation's savings.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I will make one last comment. Do you think if the very men who's job it was to guard the gold could never be trusted to even glimce the bars that they actually exist? >>
Yes. Never underestimate a human being. >>
including those who control their nation's savings. >>
Or those who control "them".
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Only believe what the Bulgarians tell you. LOL one day we will get you to love 'Merica again.
No gold. Fort Knox is now used to store bitcoin
My best guess answer... there is gold but ownership is questionable. Also may be some gold plated tungsten for appearances when anyone is given the rare opportunity to look inside.
I don't know and I won't make any assumptions.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
This was a fun thread to re-read.
And the gold is still there.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
More fodder for the conspiracy theorists.... It never ends.... Cheers, RickO
Nothing like bringing back a 7 year old "nonsense post"
Let it RIP
I'm an official government conspiracy theorist so I know for a fact Bin Laden stole all the gold in Fort Knox from a cave in Afghanistan. If he can demolish skyscrapers from the other side of the planet he can do anything. We need more fascist security stuff to keep the fatherland, er, um, homeland safe and secure!
With the transparency in (cough cough) the audit next week will surely clear up any further questions.
Yes there is gold there. However, not as much as the feds want us think is there. LOL
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
You mean the melted down Double eagles and Aztec Gold the military took from the New Mexico mountain caves?
Yep. Why the USA has the most Gold.
100% Positive BST transactions
Concerning the gold held at Fort Knox and in NY, I'm sure it's still there. That doesn't mean that the gold hasn't been hypothecated or promised for something else, such as to the FED banks. The question is, does the US still own it?