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1887 Indian Cent: Opinions welcome- UPDATE on submission!

nwcoastnwcoast Posts: 2,826 ✭✭✭✭✭
Greetings.
Fighting a little bug here and thought I'd throw this out there for comment and to fire up my evening.
Picked this up about a month ago while looking through an old Whitman folder of Indians that had come in.
Not my series though I do have a book of worn examples plugging along.
What caught my eye, and isn't really captured in the photo well is the slight PL and cameo appearance of this piece.
Too bad those cheek hits are there, but I still really liked the look of this coin.
Any IHC collectors share my views on this? Or, do I need a reality check?
I know I can trust the members here for an honest opinion!

image

My apologies for the lack of sharpness with the photos. I had intended a reshoot but haven't gotten to it yet...

See later post for verdict please.

Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014

Comments

  • hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's a great looking coin
  • jp84jp84 Posts: 180 ✭✭✭
    Like it a lot. The color is a bit off but might just be the picture. Even if these have been cleaned, they can still be attractive coins.
  • WildIdeaWildIdea Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's a grade and color I like to buy. Lots of character without breaking the bank! I'll say MS 63 overall and a well matched set of these would be very desirable to me and probably others here.

    With winter and my kids in school I seem to get some kind of crud about once a month. I seem to want to organize the collection then too! Makes me feel better.
  • AuroraBorealisAuroraBorealis Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cool looking Injun... image

    ABimage
  • That is a very nice pick up. I would gladly own that cent.
  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is not the kind of coin you find in a Whitman folder. The fields appear a little to good for a business strike. It looks to me like a PF that has been cleaned sometime in the past. I have an 1887 PF that looks very much the same as this coin as to strike that was graded by PCGS as Questionable Color. You might submit it because if it is a PF it will be worth the submission cost, if only so you know for sure.

    Following are QC 1887 IHC:



    image
    image

    OINK
  • ThePennyLadyThePennyLady Posts: 4,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My first impression is that it is a very slightly circulated (or rub front the album) proof. You'll have to look and see how sharp the rims are to help determine if it's a proof.
    Charmy HarkerThe Penny Lady®
  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    FTB,

    <I know it's not a surefire thing, but look at the necklace on this one and compare it to NW's. I think the OP's coin is a nice business strike. Of course the focus could be off a bit, we'll see..>

    It could be a business strike with some wear which also seems evident on the wreath in comparison to the proof I posted of the same date. The fields look a little to clean for a business strike, though.

    OINK
  • nwcoastnwcoast Posts: 2,826 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow!
    I had a remote feeling that this could be a proof with a dash of wear, but reeled it in given some embarrasing flights of delusional coin grandeur I've embarked on in the past.
    Thanks Charmy and OldIndianNutKase! And for all the other compliments! The coin really looks much better in hand.
    Since I have no other close to Unc Indians, I have nothing to compare the rims to for reference.
    I guess I'll have to send it in to our host, or bring it to the next show- whatever's first.
    Thanks friends!

    Edited to add:
    My focus is indeed off a bit as I tilted the coin a dash as a quick way to pick up some color.
    Liberty doesn't look nearly as sharp in my coin as the Proof example posted...
    Got me wondering now though....

    Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014

  • ThePennyLadyThePennyLady Posts: 4,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Check to see if the edge of rims look sharp and squared or whether they are bevelled.
    Charmy HarkerThe Penny Lady®
  • shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
    1880's Indian Heads in high MS condition often have prooflike surfaces and very distinctive deep purple/red color.
    Must be the alloy mix of era, which was never consistent from decade to decade. They appear to be struck in a harder mix of bronze.

    Yours may indeed be a proof, but wouldn't be surprised to see a circulated example retaining some of that prooflike look.
  • nwcoastnwcoast Posts: 2,826 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Check to see if the edge of rims look sharp and squared or whether they are bevelled. >>



    Thanks for the tips and diagnostics.
    Looking at it, it looks like the edges are beveled, so I guess it's a business strike? My eye for the edge differences isn't great though so I could be wrong.
    The strength of Liberty and the necklace also have me thinking it's not a proof.
    I wonder if it's worth sending in for my freebie submission that I still haven't pulled together for this years membership.

    Sure is nice to look at and it really stuck out like a sore thumb in that old blue whitman amongst all those circulated and heavily worn companions.




    Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very nice IHC.... does not appear proof, but certainly a great coin. Cheers, RickO
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,430 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't see this coin as a Proof. Some the devices are simply too mushy. It is a Mint State coin with a couple of marks that would take it down to the MS-62 - 63 area. The color would be "brown."
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • nwcoastnwcoast Posts: 2,826 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So.....
    This went in with my coupon submission for Secure Plus and associated pics (which i've never tried).
    I asked that coins with issues be body-bagged.
    This sucker came in with a 91-questionable color... Though PROOF!!!!!

    Thought the update here appropriate to those kind enough to comment earlier and educational purposes for all....

    Maybe the sniffer picked up some old Blue Ribbon????
    I had no issues with the color!

    What now?

    Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014

  • nwcoastnwcoast Posts: 2,826 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bump for the evening crew...
    Proof it was!!!!!!

    Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014

  • hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I still like it
  • Resubmit or Charmy or Rick if not going to keep it. Darn nice coin.
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,285 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cool. Too bad about the QC.
    First thought when I just opened the thread and saw the pics was "damaged/circ proof". The reverse made me think proof, the obverse made me think circ/damage.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • nwcoastnwcoast Posts: 2,826 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Cool. Too bad about the QC.
    First thought when I just opened the thread and saw the pics was "damaged/circ proof". The reverse made me think proof, the obverse made me think circ/damage. >>



    Thanks.
    I'm going to send it in again, if only to get a details grade...
    I think it might stand a better chance next time.

    It is a pretty sweet coin and my pics don't really capture the quality.
    I'm at a loss as to why they pulled the ""questionable color" code on it though?

    Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014

  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So.....
    This went in with my coupon submission for Secure Plus and associated pics (which i've never tried).
    I asked that coins with issues be body-bagged.
    This sucker came in with a 91-questionable color... Though PROOF!!!!!

    Thought the update here appropriate to those kind enough to comment earlier and educational purposes for all....

    Maybe the sniffer picked up some old Blue Ribbon????
    I had no issues with the color!

    What now? >>

    Nah. Substances on the surface come back as 94 - Altered Surface. Someone just didn't like the color.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!

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