Has there ever been a report of any 1964 Clad proof or mint state quarters?

oreville

Has there ever been a report of any 1964 dated Clad proof or mint state quarters?

If not, is it possible?

Just wondering?

Keep in mind that the 1964 dated quarters were in use all the way to the end of 1965..... and even part of the 1966 year (I believe the latter is also true).

ebaybuyer

interesting question,

LindeDad

Did they even have clad material in 1964 yet?

ricko

I have not heard of any.... I suppose if trial runs were conducted in '64 it is possible.... Cheers, RickO

Bossman88

I have not heard of any but I do think it was possible.
Weren't the 64 dated Kennedy half dollars still being struck until the summer of 65 by the mint to meet the demand??
Maybe Cladking can chime in on this?

Regards, Larry

oreville

Keep in mind that the 1964 dated quarters were in use all the way to the end of 1965..... and even into part of the 1966 year (I believe the latter is also true).

Coinstudy

I have heard of 65's struck on silver.Then there are the mysterious 1964 sms coins.

dbldie55

<< <i>Keep in mind that the 1964 dated quarters were in use all the way to the end of 1965..... and even into part of the 1966 year (I believe the latter is also true). >>



Yes, they struck the 1964 silver coins in 65 and 66 (as well as cents and nickels dated 1964 were struck through 1965). The 1965 dated coins were not struck until the end of the year (apparently Dec. 30 1965) and throughout 1966.

CaptHenway

This story claims that they exist. However, it offers no documentation.

link

Coinstudy

Whats strange is I own 4 type 1 clad dime blanks.The seller had them listed as being from early 1964 .How often do you get to see a type 1 blank un upset and unreeded.I believe that in 64 they would have had to been doing testing on clad blanks.I also believe all this was happening at the San Francisco assayers office.

MrEureka

I've never heard of any.

Even if the article cited by CaptHenway is correct, I'd still want to consider the possibility that those coins are not struck on planchets intended for US quarters.

RichieURich

I believe Cladking mentioned that he knows of one business strike clad 1964 quarter.

Interestingly enough, I have seen several 1965 silver dimes and quarters, but also have seen a 1966 silver dime. Alas, I wasn't smart enough to buy that one at that time.

MsMorrisine

<< <i>This story claims that they exist. However, it offers no documentation.

link >>





Smoking coin!

Haebeus coinus!

goodmoney4badmoney

I would be surprised if one doesn't exist. There are a pretty fair number of 1964/1965 - clad/silver - transitional/reverse-transitional off metal strikes out there.

blacksmoke

This link refers to this happening with Roosevelts so I don't see why it couldn't happen with Washingtons.
link

Coinstudy

1964 the end of proofs & b.u. on silver at Philly
1965,66,67 SMS(proof like/b.u. on clad with no mint marks.Supposedly all SMS coins struck at SanFrancisco.
1968 new mint at SanFrancisco.Begin strikeing proofs & b.u. w s mint mark.

what's funny is the mint hid the transition in the "P" or "the plain" or the "no mint mark".

I believe they were trying to keep people from hoarding silver.

We'll never know.

MrEureka

This link refers to this happening with Roosevelts so I don't see why it couldn't happen with Washingtons.

I've also never seen or heard of clad 64 dimes. Or halves. (Although I've seen a number of 64 halves on clad quarter planchets!)

Can anyone here point us to some images of actual coins? Hearsay just doesn't cut it.

cladking

<< <i>This story claims that they exist. However, it offers no documentation.

link >>



There is a 1964 clad quarter but it was struck after the selection of coining material in 1965. It
is vaguely possible that it could have been struck earlier in 1965 since many different coinage
materials were being tried but the odds are exceedingly low any of these got into the mint to
be struck. In any case it would necesarily have been struck long after the 1964 proof sets were
made in May 1964, if memory serves. This quarter is unique and is in AU+ condition. It was
struck by the normal 1964 dies rather than one designed for clad. I very much doubt a 1964
clad dime exists at all.

There are, of course, several reports of both 1965 silver dimes and quarters. No half dollars are
reported in 90% silver.

cladking

<< <i>This link refers to this happening with Roosevelts so I don't see why it couldn't happen with Washingtons.
link >>



It's not impossible, of course.

This is news to me though and I'd like to see substantiation. The source seems authoritative enough.

oreville

<< <i>
1964 the end of proofs & b.u. on silver at Philly
1965,66,67 SMS(proof like/b.u. on clad with no mint marks.Supposedly all SMS coins struck at SanFrancisco.
1968 new mint at SanFrancisco.Begin strikeing proofs & b.u. w s mint mark.

what's funny is the mint hid the transition in the "P" or "the plain" or the "no mint mark".

I believe they were trying to keep people from hoarding silver.

We'll never know. >>



Actually I believe we do know. The US MInt Director Eva Adams was quoted (I believe) that the collector was hoarding coins and the US Mint was purposely removing mint marks on all coins to discourage future hoarding.

leothelyon

I posted in error thinking the subject was on prooflike 1964 coinage.

EagleEye

The plausibility of the existence of a clad 1964 dime or quarter would all depend on how rigorous the security and housecleaning was during changeover from silver to clad was in late 1965. Were clad planchets available and waiting for minting while silver was still being used?

CaptHenway

Somebody told me long ago that the Mints were running 1964-dated silver coins in one part of each Mint and 1965-dated clads in another part of each Mint, with the clad coins being stockpiled so that they would have a large quantity of each denomination on hand when they started to release the clads (to discourage hoarding of the "new" coin), but I have no documentation on that. Let me see if I can dig something up.

wondercoin

I have never heard of a clad quarter from 1964 other than the one reported by CK. I do have in my Washington quarter collection a 1965 silver quarter graded PCGS-MS64. This is the only Mint State example I have ever come across in any grade. Wondercoin.

CaptHenway

The 1971 Mint Report says that the first coins dated 1965 were struck in August of 1965 and the last coins dated 1964 were struck in April of 1966, but it does not give start and stop dated by denomination. I know I have seen them somewhere. Will keep looking.

ProofArtworkonCircs

<<Somebody told me long ago that the Mints were running 1964-dated silver coins in one part of each Mint and 1965-dated clads in another part of each Mint, with the clad coins being stockpiled so that they would have a large quantity of each denomination on hand when they started to release the clads (to discourage hoarding of the "new" coin), but I have no documentation on that. Let me see if I can dig something up. >>

The coin media back then reported that no mint processed silver and clad production of the same denomination at the same time. Philly switched first, them Denver and finally San Francisco in 1966.

We had a distinctive clad quarter reverse die with a D mintmark used in Denver on 1964 dated silver production in 1965.

cladking

<< <i>The 1971 Mint Report says that the first coins dated 1965 were struck in August of 1965 and the last coins dated 1964 were struck in April of 1966, but it does not give start and stop dated by denomination. I know I have seen them somewhere. Will keep looking. >>



I believe silver quarters ended in December '65 and dimes in March '66.

Clad quarters were the first clad to go into production. Remember though that there were two
consecutive date freezes in effect. The first one in 1964 froze the 1964 date and the second
one allowed the '65 date and froze it but lifted the first freeze.

Ginger Rapsus's The United States Clad Coinage book has the exact dates of these things.

oreville

If a genuine 1964 clad quarter were found, what would be its potential value?

CaptHenway

The 1967 Mint Report has 167,905,630 1964-D silver dimes struck in calendar year 1966. It also has 4,640,865 1964-dated silver quarters struck in San Francisco in c.y. 1966. It does not say that they were without mint marks, but I assume so. The Philadelphia production of 1964-dated quarters must have ended before the end of c.y. 1965.

Does anybody have a 1966 Mint Report handy?

Overdate

<< <i>Remember though that there were two consecutive date freezes in effect. The first one in 1964 froze the 1964 date and the second one allowed the '65 date and froze it but lifted the first freeze. >>


The Mint finally changed the dates on cents and nickels from 1964 to 1965 on December 29, 1965. So a few were struck with the correct date. Most cents and nickels dated 1965 were made in the first half of 1966, after which normal dating for cents and nickels was resumed.

cladking

<< <i>If a genuine 1964 clad quarter were found, what would be its potential value? >>



Well... ...I made an offer for it so I can tell you what it isn't worth.

keets

what is the logic behind striking coins dated one year --1964-- during the following year??

cladking

<< <i>what is the logic behind striking coins dated one year --1964-- during the following year?? >>



It was required by law.

Congress came to believe that coin collectors were causing the coin shortage
and figured if all coins had the same date they would quit hoarding coins. They
started punishing collectors with date freezes, mint mark removal, ad the cessa-
tion of both mint and proof set production as well as other tactics. They were
wildly successful and modern coin collection virtually ceased and hasn't recovered
yet as evidenced by the fact the old scarce clad is still cheap and has no demand.

MsMorrisine

<< <i>what is the logic behind striking coins dated one year --1964-- during the following year?? >>



The fact-less idea was that collectors were causing coin shortages by saving each date and mm combo.

Strike them all with one date and there's plenty for all!



Interestingly enough, despite this being found untrue, there is still am allowance in the law to strike with the same year to alleviate shortages or potential shortages.... As if there are that many millions of collectors out there hoarding state quarters and more!!

MsMorrisine

<< <i>

<< <i>what is the logic behind striking coins dated one year --1964-- during the following year?? >>



It was required by law.

Congress came to believe that coin collectors were causing the coin shortage
and figured if all coins had the same date they would quit hoarding coins. They
started punishing collectors with date freezes, mint mark removal, ad the cessa-
tion of both mint and proof set production as well as other tactics. They were
wildly successful and modern coin collection virtually ceased and hasn't recovered
yet as evidenced by the fact the old scarce clad is still cheap and has no demand. >>




Yet look at 40% half dollars and how collectors did not eat those all into collections immediately upon the return of new dates.

After the fact it was more of an economy and vending thing rather than adding a coin each into a collection.

MsMorrisine

I'm going into a "furthermore"


It's only been recently that the cent and nickel costs exceeded face.

The gub-mint SHOULD WANT people saving change to some extent because of seigniorage.


If those billions of dollar coins were sitting in jars (excluding the FRB storage here!) the the gub-mint would be making ~79 cents on the dollar.

Coin hoarding? The issue there is more of capacity to replace up to circulation needs and the cost to expand minting capacity and if that can easily covered shortly by seigniorage.

War bonds? How about national debt coin hoarding! (it's more fun than the $200,000 tax!)

WoodenJefferson

<< <i>If a genuine 1964 clad quarter were found, what would be its potential value? >>



Another question would be, how would a certification company go about authenticating a single coin that theoretically should not exist?

In all my years of on off collecting since the mid 60's I've never even heard about a clad quarter dated 1964.

keets

thanks for answering the question about 1964-1968, but I knew all that. I was trying to get some understanding of why it was done historically since the date on the coin really has no significance past an internal accounting perspective. perhaps it was to use up an over-production of dies, but the Mint used to just over-date, so I would wonder what is the reasoning behind producing a "dated" coin out of the date year?-----non-1964 related, of course.

from the shortage angle-----what does it matter what the date is??? it only matters that coins are added to the economy.

Coinstudy

What was silver worth in 64-65?

was there a shortage or was demand high?

Thanks

Higashiyama

Silver was about $ 1.30/ounce circa 1964 - 65, so the silver value of $ 1 of silver coins was getting very close to $ 1. In contrast, in the 1950s, the price of silver ranged between 0.80 - 0.90 per ounce. With growing inflation fears in the mid-1960s, a fair number of people were stashing change in jars.

CaptHenway

From the 1967 Mint Report.

Last months of striking/delivery for 1964-dated coins:
Cent: (P) & D, Dec. '65
Nickel: (P) & D, Dec. '65
Dime: (P) Nov. '65, D Feb. '66
Quarter: (P) July '65, D Nov. '65, (S) Started Nov. '65, ended Feb. '66
Half: (P) & D, Apr. '66

First months of striking/delivery for 1965-dated coins:
Cent: (P) Dec. '65, (D) Jan. '66
Nickels: (P) Dec. '65, (D) Jan. '66
Dimes: (P) Dec. '65, (D) Feb. '66
Quarters: (P) Aug. '65, (D) Nov. '65, (S) Apr. '66.
Halves: (D) only, Dec. '65 but not delivered until Jan. '66.

So, it looks like they did try to segregate the striking of the clad coins from the silver coins, including (probably) shipping Denver's leftover silver quarter planchets to the SFAO to be struck there so they could start striking the clad.

Doesn't mean a 1964 strike on a clad planchet is impossible, if they were making clad blanks in preparation of beginning clad production while the silver production was winding down, but they did try not to.

TD

ProofArtworkonCircs

<<The 1967 Mint Report has 167,905,630 1964-D silver dimes struck in calendar year 1966. It also has 4,640,865 1964-dated silver quarters struck in San Francisco in c.y. 1966. It does not say that they were without mint marks, but I assume so. The Philadelphia production of 1964-dated quarters must have ended before the end of c.y. 1965.>>

I am assuming that the Denver 1965 silver production had mintmarks and the 1964 date other than the 1965 dated halves. This is based on another assumption that the mint did not have clad design quarter dies to mix up with silver design dies before 1965. I am again referring to that 1964 D quarter with the clad reverse design.

TwoSides2aCoin

It's hard to imagine this but intriguing to ponder. It seems on face value that it's impossible. And if it were to happen, such a coin would stand out like a monster.

CaptHenway

<< <i><<The 1967 Mint Report has 167,905,630 1964-D silver dimes struck in calendar year 1966. It also has 4,640,865 1964-dated silver quarters struck in San Francisco in c.y. 1966. It does not say that they were without mint marks, but I assume so. The Philadelphia production of 1964-dated quarters must have ended before the end of c.y. 1965.>>

I am assuming that the Denver 1965 silver production had mintmarks and the 1964 date other than the 1965 dated halves. This is based on another assumption that the mint did not have clad design quarter dies to mix up with silver design dies before 1965. I am again referring to that 1964 D quarter with the clad reverse design. >>



Yes, they continued using the D mint mark on the siver strikes to the end.

The clad quarter reverse die with the D mint mark presumably was made in error(?) at the Philadelphia Mint and shipped to Denver while Denver was still striking silver and Philadelphia was stockpiling clad reverse dies in anticipation of the changover.

An alternative is that the silver strikes in San Francisco using what I assume are the leftover Denver silver planchets might have been made with D-mint reverse dies, and Philadelphia might have sent them one of the new reverses just to get that job finished, but this is a long shot and I don't know how you would prove it.

cladking

<< <i>From the 1967 Mint Report.
Quarter: (P) July '65, D Nov. '65, (S) Started Nov. '65, ended Feb. '66
>>



Thank you. I knew that there were no P or D silver quarters in '66 but didn't know there were S mint made so late.

I certainly remember seeing nice fresh BU rolls of silver '64 quarters almost until 1968 (I'm "sure" there were D mint among them).

MsMorrisine

<< <i>thanks for answering the question about 1964-1968, but I knew all that. I was trying to get some understanding of why it was done historically since the date on the coin really has no significance past an internal accounting perspective. perhaps it was to use up an over-production of dies, but the Mint used to just over-date, so I would wonder what is the reasoning behind producing a "dated" coin out of the date year?-----non-1964 related, of course.

from the shortage angle-----what does it matter what the date is??? it only matters that coins are added to the economy. >>




Presumably the date and mm have been pinned to accounting.


Interesting though, the mint's melt statistics are seemingly poorly kept or even today we'd have exact sales figures in this computer age.





On the shortage angle, again it goes back to collectors not hoarders. A new date on a coin would mean the collectors would take the new date from circulation. An old date would mean all the year's run would be passed over by collectors.


Hoarding is different. The real culprit was increased demand from the economy, the economics of silver hoarding regardless of date, and the increased use of vending machines.

Coin collecting was blamed incorrectly, so their idea of re-used dates was virtually useless.

cladking

<< <i>

Coin collecting was blamed incorrectly, so their idea of re-used dates was virtually useless. >>



When you get right down to it just switching the coins to clad was going to squelch
hoarding and collecting. The way they went about it even killed modern coin collecting
and set up the situation we have today where there are numerous scarce coins made
by the billions.

CaptHenway

<< <i>

<< <i>From the 1967 Mint Report.
Quarter: (P) July '65, D Nov. '65, (S) Started Nov. '65, ended Feb. '66
>>



Thank you. I knew that there were no P or D silver quarters in '66 but didn't know there were S mint made so late.

I certainly remember seeing nice fresh BU rolls of silver '64 quarters almost until 1968 (I'm "sure" there were D mint among them). >>



I checked footnotes and everything, but could find no indication as to whether or not those San Francisco silver strikes had a D or not. I am sure they did not have an S.

cladking

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>From the 1967 Mint Report.
Quarter: (P) July '65, D Nov. '65, (S) Started Nov. '65, ended Feb. '66
>>



Thank you. I knew that there were no P or D silver quarters in '66 but didn't know there were S mint made so late.

I certainly remember seeing nice fresh BU rolls of silver '64 quarters almost until 1968 (I'm "sure" there were D mint among them). >>



I checked footnotes and everything, but could find no indication as to whether or not those San Francisco silver strikes had a D or not. I am sure they did not have an S. >>




Great question.

Maybe someone near San Francisco can remember whether there were many D mint
quarters released in that era at the time. I'd guess they probably had no mint mark.

I knew San Francisco was striking all the coins after 1965 but I don't think I knew that
these included silver.

There was lot going on with the mints and changes in those days so it would be easy
to not know or to forget details.

CaptHenway

A Freedom of Information Act request might dig out whether the coins had mint marks or not. Somebody knock yourself out.

CaptHenway

Just thought of something....The figures given for Philadelphia and San Francisco add up to the Redbook figure for Philadelphia, so I'm going to guess that Yeoman and/or Bressett already checked that.