50-card 1972 Jumbo Cello Pack Box?

grote15 · January 15, 2014 11:10AM

I was browsing ebay just now and noticed that NESC has listed for sale two empty blue cello boxes as 1972 cello pack boxes, both of which have 50 cards for 50c printed on the box. I have never seen any early 70s cello in a 50-card outer box, and the highest card count for any cello pack in this era when Topps used these outer boxes (1970-1972) was the 33-card pack in 1970 . All the 72 cellos I have seen have a blue outer box and the 25c price but the card count (unlike in 1970 and 1971) is not listed on the box. Furthermore, there are 30 cards in a jumbo 1972 Topps baseball cello pack, not 50. Has anyone ever seen a 50-card 1972 Topps cello pack? Does anyone know the origin of these boxes. Carnac the Magnificent?

1972 Topps cello box

Here is a typical 1972 cello pack box:

cpamike · January 15, 2014 11:16AM

Seems really odd to me too. Why would you spend 50 cents for a 1972 50 card jumbo pack when you could get 60 cards by buying two 1972 30 card jumbo packs for the same price. Don't you usually get a discount when you buy a bigger pack? Maybe this was some test issue that failed miserably.

Griffins · January 15, 2014 11:19AM

any chance this could be a Canadian version? Doesn't make sense on the card count, but IIRC the Canadian dollar was worth about .70 back then, so the math is about right.

grote15 · January 15, 2014 11:22AM

<< any chance this could be a Canadian version? Doesn't make sense on the card count, but IIRC the Canadian dollar was worth about .70 back then, so the math is about right. >>

That is an interesting theory, Anthony. Did Topps market Topps packs in Canada at different price points during this time, though? I don't recall ever seeing that. And I know there definitely aren't any 1972 OPC cello packs.

TheDudeAbides · January 15, 2014 11:49AM

That is odd. Can't remember ever seeing a 50 count cello pack from 72.

jmoran19 · January 15, 2014 12:18PM

I have a 1972 basketball cello pack that has at least 50 cards, those that count?

Have pics of display boxes from 1969 and 1971 FB that are pricing at 50 cents too. Will find the pics and post

CTM

grote15 · January 15, 2014 12:25PM

<< I have a 1972 basketball cello pack that has at least 50 cards, those that count?

Have pics of display boxes from 1969 and 1971 FB that are pricing at 50 cents too. Will find the pics and post

CTM >>

No, we are not talking about some obscure sport like basketball, Carnac. Baseball. Have you ever seen a 50-card 1972 (or 1971) Topps baseball cello pack with a box stating 50 baseball cards priced at 50c?

jmoran19 · January 15, 2014 8:11PM

Nope but too bad, posting pics anyway

Side view 50 card cello

vtbub · January 15, 2014 8:18PM

If you notice in the auction, there is no Topps logo present on the box, whereas it is in the OP's.

Even the football cello lower has 50 and the Topps logo. Something seems fishy.

Big80s · January 15, 2014 8:23PM

Where's Maurice when you need him?

packCollector · January 15, 2014 8:59PM

never seen or heard of a 50 card cello but it seems very cool. topps tried a lot of things with packaging so this wouldn't surprise me. this would be the 3rd version of legit 72 cellos

what is sad is that it was probably a pack not to long ago and 4sharp opened it up.

Dboneesq · January 15, 2014 9:48PM

Has anyone ever seen a 50-card 1972 Topps cello pack?
Not me.

PaulMaul · January 15, 2014 10:42PM

We have only the seller's word that it's a 1972 box. It's actually a lot closer to the 1971 box, with just the 30 changed to 50.

grote15 · January 15, 2014 10:43PM

<< If you notice in the auction, there is no Topps logo present on the box, whereas it is in the OP's.

Even the football cello lower has 50 and the Topps logo. Something seems fishy. >>

Interesting observation. Would be nice if they showed a pic of other side of the box to see if logo is on that side like a 1970 or 1971 cello pack box.

grote15 · January 15, 2014 10:48PM

<< We have only the seller's word that it's a 1972 box. It's actually a lot closer to the 1971 box, with just the 30 changed to 50. >>

And the price changed from 25c to 50c.

Edit to add: after seeing Carnac"s scan of the 1971 50c football cello box, it would make even more sense that this box is from 1971 not 1972.

PaulMaul · January 15, 2014 10:49PM

My guess is it will be exactly like the '71 box except for the number of cards and price. Someone ask the seller what the code is on the box!

PaulMaul · January 15, 2014 10:58PM

My prediction would be 1-368-15-02-1

grote15 · January 15, 2014 11:01PM

<< My prediction would be 1-368-15-02-1 >>

If it is a 1971 box, though, the product code should differ slightly from a standard 1971 cello pack box because of the change in card count/price.

PaulMaul · January 15, 2014 11:04PM

Right, the normal '71 box is coded 1-368-15-01-1.

The 01 should be changed to 02 for a second version of the box. That's how it works with wrappers, uncut sheets and display boxes.

grote15 · January 15, 2014 11:07PM

<< Right, the normal '71 box is coded 1-368-15-01-1.

The 01 should be changed to 02 for a second version of the box. That's how it works with wrappers, uncut sheets and display boxes. >>

That should confirm it then one way or the other.

cpamike · January 16, 2014 2:27AM

They were very prompt with the picture. Here is the back of the box.

PaulMaul · January 16, 2014 6:01AM

That's definitely an updated version of the back of the '72 box, not '71. The "one stick bubble gum" tag line lines up differently below the "cards" line in the '71.

Too bad the code # is on the flap that folds inside the box and can't be seen here.

PaulMaul · January 16, 2014 6:04AM

I see both boxes have now sold. Nothing like a thread here to generate interest!

Whoever bought them, please post here with the code number when you receive.

esquiresports · January 16, 2014 6:13AM

<< I see both boxes have now sold. Nothing like a thread here to generate interest!

Whoever bought them, please post here with the code number when you receive. >>

I'm surprised it took this long given the BIN price. I think I spent about 10x this on an OPC wrapper from a few years prior.

natetrook · January 16, 2014 9:07AM

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=28250
looks like 2 50 card cello packs in this lot

Matt

robert67 · January 16, 2014 9:41AM

Link for above post

grote15 · January 16, 2014 11:46AM

<< http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=28250
looks like 2 50 card cello packs in this lot

Matt >>

That pretty much confirms that the boxes are in fact from 1972. Very interesting. I have never seen a 50-card 72 cello pack, but obviously they were at least test-marketed. And I thought the 70 cellos were jumbo at 33 cards~geez, at 50 cards a single pack would include almost half the entire series for that year, LOL!

packCollector · January 16, 2014 10:07PM

<< http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=28250
looks like 2 50 card cello packs in this lot >>

thanks for the post. I guess I never noticed because I can't for the life of me see how that lot went for almost $4,000!!

I guess 4sharp bought it and ripped them all.

cpamike · January 16, 2014 10:11PM

<< 

<< http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=28250
looks like 2 50 card cello packs in this lot >>

thanks for the post. I guess I never noticed because I can't for the life of me see how that lot went for almost $4,000!!

I guess 4sharp bought it and ripped them all. >>

I was thinking the same thing...what am I missing here to justify that hammer price.

aconte · January 16, 2014 11:23PM

I would think the 72 Jumbo packs would have been worth more sealed.

aconte

PaulMaul · January 16, 2014 11:44PM

If you read the description, the '72 cellos were opened, it was just 50 loose cards in each box.

LarkinCollector · January 16, 2014 11:48PM

<< I was thinking the same thing...what am I missing here to justify that hammer price. >>

The 1991 Desert Shield complete set is probably the biggest portion of that bid. I'm not sure why it was bundled with all the unopened.

flatfoot816 · January 17, 2014 1:04AM

it is for reasons like this that I say you can never be sure what is legit and what is not. I mean we have some serious unopened collectors on this board who have been collecting for many years.

Yet still this particular pack has never been seen until now.

While I respect the authority some of you have--you can never be certain on: sequencing, header cards, packaging, cello wraps, cards in the wrong cell, etc.

Something new always seems to show up--that's the beauty of this hobby IMO

grote15 · January 17, 2014 1:16AM

<< it is for reasons like this that I say you can never be sure what is legit and what is not. I mean we have some serious unopened collectors on this board who have been collecting for many years.

Yet still this particular pack has never been seen until now.

While I respect the authority some of you have--you can never be certain on: sequencing, header cards, packaging, cello wraps, cards in the wrong cell, etc.

Something new always seems to show up--that's the beauty of this hobby IMO >>

Manny, I understand what you are saying but that is a very dangerous assumption. Yes, there are occasional aberrations with regard to cell placement of cards in racks but in the rare occasions that occurs there are sequencing standards behind that, too. For instance, you will never find cards mixed from different cell sheets in the same cell. For an item like this 1972 jumbo cello, there is still going to be an assigned product code that makes perfect sense for that specific product. You certainly should NEVER see a product code from a future year on this pack (like a 1973 cello wrapped in a 1975 wrapper), even if it is a test product. Yes, Topps did a lot of crazy things over the years, but we also know, after lots of study, that even with test products like this one, there are certain standards in packaging, too. To me, that is also the beauty of this hobby--studying unopened product to learn why packs are packaged the way they are. When you do the necessary research, you also begin to realize that every change in a wrapper or a product code actually makes perfect sense. Furthermore, with regard to card placement in racks, the most telling part to me is that whenever you see a rack that violates the standard or defies explanation, it's always a rack with a major HOFer on top or bottom, never a common. What does that tell you?

cpamike · January 17, 2014 2:02AM

<< 

<< it is for reasons like this that I say you can never be sure what is legit and what is not. I mean we have some serious unopened collectors on this board who have been collecting for many years.

Yet still this particular pack has never been seen until now.

While I respect the authority some of you have--you can never be certain on: sequencing, header cards, packaging, cello wraps, cards in the wrong cell, etc.

Something new always seems to show up--that's the beauty of this hobby IMO >>

Manny, I understand what you are saying but that is a very dangerous assumption. Yes, there are occasional aberrations with regard to cell placement of cards in racks but in the rare occasions that occurs there are sequencing standards behind that, too. For instance, you will never find cards mixed from different cell sheets in the same cell. For an item like this 1972 jumbo cello, there is still going to be an assigned product code that makes perfect sense for that specific product. You certainly should NEVER see a product code from a future year on this pack (like a 1973 cello wrapped in a 1975 wrapper), even if it is a test product. Yes, Topps did a lot of crazy things over the years, but we also know, after lots of study, that even with test products like this one, there are certain standards in packaging, too. To me, that is also the beauty of this hobby--studying unopened product to learn why packs are packaged the way they are. When you do the necessary research, you also begin to realize that every change in a wrapper or a product code actually makes perfect sense. Furthermore, with regard to card placement in racks, the most telling part to me is that whenever you see a rack that violates the standard or defies explanation, it's always a rack with a major HOFer on top or bottom, never a common. What does that tell you? >>

I totally agree with you Tim. There are most definitely legitimate variations that we stumble on from time to time, but they always are explainable. And as you said, the ones that aren't always seem to have a star on top or bottom or my personal favorite, both. That is why discussions like this are great. Back to work for me.

flatfoot816 · January 17, 2014 2:11AM

Furthermore, with regard to card placement in racks, the most telling part to me is that whenever you see a rack that violates the standard or defies explanation, it's always a rack with a major HOFer on top or bottom, never a common. What does that tell you?

It tells me that you should exercise caution in your purchase. When one exercises caution one should look at other factors--like--knowing from who you are purchasing. No matter how many packs are opened--nothing is absolute. Perhaps more probable than not, but not absolute.

70ToppsFanatic · January 17, 2014 4:48AM

Great thread.

Until the REA auction I had not heard of these 1972 50-Card cellos before. However, Topps had a long history of "trial
marketing" and limited distribution (both in packagings and in issues) thorughout their history. It would not come as
much a surpirse that these cellos something in that category.

Did anyone manage ot get the product code off the bottom flap of the box? Are these the only two such boxes that
have been seen?

PaulMaul · January 17, 2014 5:16AM

The buyer of the boxes will be posting the code when he receives them. It could be

1-368-15-02-2

or potentially something completely different if Topps viewed it as a test product. I look forward to finding out, I love this kind of stuff!

mikelowell25 · February 12, 2014 8:18AM

Just wanted to revisit this thread a few weeks later and mention something i noticed at that time but didnt get around to posting about it until now:

Did anyone happen to notice the 79-80 basketball wax rack pack in the pic of the rea lot that was discussed in this thread??? Two things strike me as being odd with this rack: first, I've never seen a wax rack with a header card and each pack in its own individual cell (like a rack pack with cards); the only wax racks I've seen consist of three wax packs each right next to the other with no separation between each pack and the plastic overwrap covering the packs is a soft plastic with graphics and artwork printed directly on the plastic (see: 1979 football wax racks, for example). second, regarding the header card, it states "42 cards for 69 cents" which especially strikes me as odd because 79 basketball packs retailed for only .20 each and contained only 12 cards per pack so 1) how could three 12-card packs contain 42 cards and 2) why would someone pay .69 for three packs in a rack when they could pay .60 for three packs if purchased individually??? It is all these red flags that lead me to believe this "rack" is homemade (unless of course topps marketed 14-card packs that they sold for .25 each which would make 42 cards in three packs plausible and also make three packs for .69 a better deal than three packs for .75).

Here is the link (sort of) to that pic; a clickable link can be found in robert67's post.

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=28250

PaulMaul · February 12, 2014 8:59AM

Linky

PaulMaul · February 12, 2014 9:01AM

That is very odd. It's like a normal rack pack was resealed with wax packs in each cell.

grote15 · February 12, 2014 9:16AM

Incidentally, there is no product code on the 1972 jumbo cello box. I don't see one on my 1970 cello pack box either. I believe the product codes for these issues is on the larger cello box itself instead of each individual cello pack box.

PaulMaul · February 12, 2014 9:19AM

<< Incidentally, there is no product code on the 1972 jumbo cello box. I don't see one on my 1970 cello pack box either. I believe the product codes for these issues is on the larger cello box itself instead of each individual cello pack box. >>

The code is on the inside of the box's bottom flap.

70ToppsFanatic · February 12, 2014 9:21AM

<< Incidentally, there is no product code on the 1972 jumbo cello box. I don't see one on my 1970 cello pack box either. I believe the product codes for these issues is on the larger cello box itself instead of each individual cello pack box. >>

Tim,

I have about 50 of the green 1970 cello pack boxes from my childhood (empty unfortunately) and a few 1971 and 1972 empty blue boxes too.
I also have a 1970 cello box (that held the green cello packs).

I just had some knee surgery today, but I'll try to get my hands on them and check to see if I can add any details to your info.

grote15 · February 12, 2014 9:23AM

<< 

<< Incidentally, there is no product code on the 1972 jumbo cello box. I don't see one on my 1970 cello pack box either. I believe the product codes for these issues is on the larger cello box itself instead of each individual cello pack box. >>

The code is on the inside of the box's bottom flap. >>

Thanks, I'll check that when I get home. The inside flap on top of the box contained all the copyright information so I assumed it would be there, so that's good to know.

PaulMaul · February 12, 2014 9:25AM

Here's the lay of the land:

grote15 · February 12, 2014 9:27AM

<< Here's the lay of the land:

>>

I'm fairly certain that all that copyright info was on top flap instead of bottom, but I will report my findings later tonight.

David, thanks and hope you have a smooth and quick recovery.

70ToppsFanatic · February 12, 2014 9:59AM

Thanks Tim.

Just a torn meniscus and some minor cartiledge issues from playing tennis and getting older. Other than the nuisance of being a little less mobile
for a few weeks its actually not too bad.

I'll try to get downstairs to my boxes and take some pictures and post them. For the most part, I am pretty sure you have it right, but as long as I have
all of these exmaples to check we may as well add to the knowledge base.

Dboneesq · February 12, 2014 10:17AM

Dave ... feel better .... i tore my meniscus 4 times .... surgery 3 times .... it may take a while but you will be back to doing everything soon.

grote15 · February 12, 2014 10:51AM

OK, here we are...the copyright info was on the bottom flap like the one in David's scan, but there is NO product code on either flap. That makes me wonder now if these were official Topps products or not, or if is truly some kind of "test" pack put out in very limited numbers by Topps. Any theories?

70ToppsFanatic · February 12, 2014 11:06AM

Thanks for the good wishes. Now on to the business of adding some info to the thread.

I pulled out my boxes (pictures are below). Here are the findings:

1970 cello packs came in the green outer box. They have a product code on the bottom flap (see below). I have nearly 50 of
this "inner" pack boxes that I have had since 1970 (from the 4th series that I opened myself, and then I stored all my 1970 cards
in them by team over 2 decades...which is why my original 1970 submissions came back with such great poppage and my 1970
registry set is high up in the rankings).

The 1970 outer box for the cello packs (Seaver on the top, see below) also has a product code on the bottom of the box. There
are 7 photos of this included so it can be seen from all angles, plus a close-up of the code info on the bottom.

1971 cello packs came in the blue outer box. They also have a product code on the bottom flap (just like in Tim's photo, see mine below).
This too is an original box that I opened in 1971 and then stored my 1971 cards in them. Unfortunately I only have about 10 of them, so
my original 1971s were not quite as nice as my original 1970 cards.

Why would Topps NOT put on a product code on the 1972 cello box flaps when it has basically done that as their standard all along (I know
the 1972 box was a slight re-design, so its possible it was done in error, but every packaging they ever issued in those days had a product
code)?

I have to find my 1972 inner cello boxes to check them too, but there are starting to be a bunch of yellow flags on the items that were in that
REA lot.

Anyway, enjoy the pix and hope the additional info was helpful.

50-card 1972 Jumbo Cello Pack Box?

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