<< <i> Whoops, it is embarrassing that I forgot him on my first post on this thread, but lest we forget, one of the most obvious names for this list: Vladimir Konstantinov >>
Ooooohhhh, good one! Here's another that had a lot of promise on the ice... Jiri Fischer (had to retire early due to heart problems). Scotty Bowman said Fischer definitely had the potential to be a HOFer.
I do miss Vladdie, though, and what a horrible way to have a career ended.... >>
Fischer wasn't going to be a HOFer.
Vlad is a great pick. Him getting hurt cost the Red Wings at least one, probably more, Stanley Cups. He was better than Lidstrom at the time of the wreck - and we know how good HE turned out. In fact, he might be the best pick in this entire thread.
For hockey, I'd go with Lindbergh over Konstantinov. 3 years younger with a few more accolades and pieces of hardware under the belt. Losing him cost the team an asset (either him, Hextall or Froese with possibly more trade value than Kjell Samuelsson) that may have brought in the piece that would have gotten them the Cup.
If Mattingly can be mentioned due to his back injuries, so too should Ralph Kiner.
<< <i> Whoops, it is embarrassing that I forgot him on my first post on this thread, but lest we forget, one of the most obvious names for this list: Vladimir Konstantinov >>
Ooooohhhh, good one! Here's another that had a lot of promise on the ice... Jiri Fischer (had to retire early due to heart problems). Scotty Bowman said Fischer definitely had the potential to be a HOFer.
I do miss Vladdie, though, and what a horrible way to have a career ended.... >>
Fischer wasn't going to be a HOFer.
Vlad is a great pick. Him getting hurt cost the Red Wings at least one, probably more, Stanley Cups. He was better than Lidstrom at the time of the wreck - and we know how good HE turned out. In fact, he might be the best pick in this entire thread. >>
Thanks man. I think all of us from Michigan miss Vladdy a ton and have spent years missing what could have been. You have to give Lidstrom all the credit in the world for his career achievements but I don't think he wins as many Norris trophies with a healthy Konstantinov splitting the vote. I'm definitely with you on giving Detroit a great shot winning at least one more cup with him on the ice if not more. Also, Jiri Fischer is a great guy and would have played several years but I sincerely doubt very much he'd have been in conversation for HOF.
Obviously Lindbergh is a worthy mention too; I added him to this thread in the first place. But I don't know how to compare the future projection of Lindbergh vs. Konstantinov. I think both would have been HOF.
We've mentioned a lot of guys who had their careers cut short for one reason or another. I'm going to throw out a slightly parallel category, for players who could have piled up the stats in the major North American leagues but played elsewhere instead:
Add the often overlooked WHA stats of Gordie Howe and Bobby Hull to their NHL stats and they become even more amazing. Wish we could see the NHL goal totals for both those guys if they hadn't switched leagues. Honorable mention to Mark Howe for his WHA years as a forward. Other NHL HOF'ers played in the WHA like Plante & Mahovlich, but I don't think they had enough in the tank at that point to have much difference in their NHL totals, compared to how Howe & Hull were still scoring.
Sadaharu Oh. Where would he have placed on the all-time HR list for the MLB?
Vladislav Tretjak. Could have been one of the greatest NHL goalies of all time.
As usual the strong Michigan contingent has hijacked the thread a bit ... but Vladdie was a great call! I totally forgot about him and I believe he would have gone down as one of the great defensemen in his era, easy HOF, and the Wings would have won another cup or two with him which may have cemented those teams as one of the most dominating across the 4 major sports. People only remember his hits but the guy was great at moving the puck and was a strong skater.
<< <i>Sadaharu Oh. Where would he have placed on the all-time HR list for the MLB? >>
He would have been really, really low. I doubt he'd have even hit 100 HRs. Japanese baseball in the 1970s was like AA-level here, if that. >>
Without trying to sound too much like a smart ass.....
And no developing player in the late 50's early 60's who hit 25+ HR's in AA or AAA ever went on to hit anything more than single digits in the majors?
Most likely, his stats would have translated roughly like Matsui. >>
That's a fair point.
Still, he was a small guy - just 170 lbs - and would have been overmatched physically - big-time - in the majors. I just don't see the guy being a star here.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
Whoops, it is embarrassing that I forgot him on my first post on this thread, but lest we forget, one of the most obvious names for this list: Vladimir Konstantinov >>
Ooooohhhh, good one! Here's another that had a lot of promise on the ice... Jiri Fischer (had to retire early due to heart problems). Scotty Bowman said Fischer definitely had the potential to be a HOFer.
I do miss Vladdie, though, and what a horrible way to have a career ended.... >>
Fischer wasn't going to be a HOFer.
Vlad is a great pick. Him getting hurt cost the Red Wings at least one, probably more, Stanley Cups. He was better than Lidstrom at the time of the wreck - and we know how good HE turned out. In fact, he might be the best pick in this entire thread.
If Mattingly can be mentioned due to his back injuries, so too should Ralph Kiner.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Whoops, it is embarrassing that I forgot him on my first post on this thread, but lest we forget, one of the most obvious names for this list: Vladimir Konstantinov >>
Ooooohhhh, good one! Here's another that had a lot of promise on the ice... Jiri Fischer (had to retire early due to heart problems). Scotty Bowman said Fischer definitely had the potential to be a HOFer.
I do miss Vladdie, though, and what a horrible way to have a career ended.... >>
Fischer wasn't going to be a HOFer.
Vlad is a great pick. Him getting hurt cost the Red Wings at least one, probably more, Stanley Cups. He was better than Lidstrom at the time of the wreck - and we know how good HE turned out. In fact, he might be the best pick in this entire thread. >>
Thanks man. I think all of us from Michigan miss Vladdy a ton and have spent years missing what could have been. You have to give Lidstrom all the credit in the world for his career achievements but I don't think he wins as many Norris trophies with a healthy Konstantinov splitting the vote. I'm definitely with you on giving Detroit a great shot winning at least one more cup with him on the ice if not more. Also, Jiri Fischer is a great guy and would have played several years but I sincerely doubt very much he'd have been in conversation for HOF.
Obviously Lindbergh is a worthy mention too; I added him to this thread in the first place. But I don't know how to compare the future projection of Lindbergh vs. Konstantinov. I think both would have been HOF.
We've mentioned a lot of guys who had their careers cut short for one reason or another. I'm going to throw out a slightly parallel category, for players who could have piled up the stats in the major North American leagues but played elsewhere instead:
Add the often overlooked WHA stats of Gordie Howe and Bobby Hull to their NHL stats and they become even more amazing. Wish we could see the NHL goal totals for both those guys if they hadn't switched leagues. Honorable mention to Mark Howe for his WHA years as a forward. Other NHL HOF'ers played in the WHA like Plante & Mahovlich, but I don't think they had enough in the tank at that point to have much difference in their NHL totals, compared to how Howe & Hull were still scoring.
Sadaharu Oh. Where would he have placed on the all-time HR list for the MLB?
Vladislav Tretjak. Could have been one of the greatest NHL goalies of all time.
<< <i>Sadaharu Oh. Where would he have placed on the all-time HR list for the MLB? >>
He would have been really, really low. I doubt he'd have even hit 100 HRs. Japanese baseball in the 1970s was like AA-level here, if that.
<< <i>
<< <i>Sadaharu Oh. Where would he have placed on the all-time HR list for the MLB? >>
He would have been really, really low. I doubt he'd have even hit 100 HRs. Japanese baseball in the 1970s was like AA-level here, if that. >>
Without trying to sound too much like a smart ass.....
And no developing player in the late 50's early 60's who hit 25+ HR's in AA or AAA ever went on to hit anything more than single digits in the majors?
Most likely, his stats would have translated roughly like Matsui.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Sadaharu Oh. Where would he have placed on the all-time HR list for the MLB? >>
He would have been really, really low. I doubt he'd have even hit 100 HRs. Japanese baseball in the 1970s was like AA-level here, if that. >>
Without trying to sound too much like a smart ass.....
And no developing player in the late 50's early 60's who hit 25+ HR's in AA or AAA ever went on to hit anything more than single digits in the majors?
Most likely, his stats would have translated roughly like Matsui. >>
That's a fair point.
Still, he was a small guy - just 170 lbs - and would have been overmatched physically - big-time - in the majors. I just don't see the guy being a star here.