Lloyd Seay Carl D. "Lightning" Lloyd Seay (December 14, 1919 – September 2, 1941) was an early stock car racing driver from Georgia. NASCAR founder Bill France, Sr. described Seay as the "best pure race driver I ever saw". He was shot to death by his cousin over a moonshine debitoperation the two had. His last name was pronounced as "See".
NASCAR: Davey Allison - Helicopter crash at Talladega Superspeedway (Age 32) Tim Richmond - HIV/AIDS (Age 34) Dale Earnhardt Sr. - Last lap turn 4 crash 2001 Daytona 500 (Age 49) Rob Moroso - Automobile crash (Age 22)
I think some are missing the point. "Could have been" means the player had all the potential to reach the HOF, but never did. Bo Jackson, IMO, is the quintessential could have been athlete of all time. I'll throw Ernie Davis in the mix too.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
I posted Maurice Stokes earlier and I'm rather surprised that no one else has seemed to notice. Here's a brief bio:
Maurice Stokes was an American professional basketball player in the 1950s, whose career (and later his life) was cut short by a debilitating injury. He was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and graduated from Saint Francis College in Loretto, Pennsylvania after helping to take the Red Flash team to Madison Square Garden for the 1955 National Invitation Tournament, where he was named Most Valuable Player even though his team finished fourth in the tournament.
NBA career:
Playing for the National Basketball Association's Rochester Royals (which became the Cincinnati Royals in 1957) from 1955 to 1958, Stokes grabbed 38 rebounds in a single game during his rookie season, averaged 16.3 rebounds per game overall, and was named NBA Rookie of the Year. The next season, he set a league record for most rebounds in a single season with 1,256 (17.4 per game). He played in the All-Star Game all three seasons of his tragically short career, and was named to the All-NBA second team three times. He was inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame as a player in September 2004.
Injury and illness:
On March 12, 1958, in the last game of the regular 1957–58 NBA season, in Minneapolis, Stokes drove to the basket, drew contact, fell to the floor, struck his head and lost consciousness. He was revived with smelling salts and returned to the game. Three days later, after a 12-point, 15-rebound performance in an opening-round playoff game at Detroit against the Pistons, he became ill on the team's flight back to Cincinnati; "I feel like I'm going to die," he told a teammate. He later suffered a seizure, fell into a coma and was left permanently paralyzed. In the end, he was diagnosed with post-traumatic encephalopathy, a brain injury that damaged his motor-control center."
The tragedy greatly shook the team: Stokes, a tremendous talent who could play center, forward or even guard, was second in the NBA in rebounds and third in assists in 1957-58, a feat only Wilt Chamberlain has matched for a full season. Without their best player the Royals nearly folded, but recovered after drafting superstar point guard Oscar Robertson two years later.
The original post had Bobby Orr as an example so I think the intent was who was great but may have been even greater. That's why I added Koufax to my Bo Jackson. Whatever the original intent it is an interesting thread and names I wouldn't have thought of.
Thank you for the bio, he definitely looks like he was on his way to greatness and thankfully, the Basketball HOF honored him for the three years he spent on the court.
<< <i>JR Richard WAS just coming into his own...all you have to do is look at the indicators, in his last two/three years his SO/BB ratio, and BB/9IP ratio both took big jumps from his previous career norms, and those are good indicators of a pitcher 'getting it'. Those are also his two best ERA+ years.(he was age 29, and 30 his last two years).
Age of 30 is not bad at all for a pitcher. Another big strikeout pitcher, with poor control early on, that didn't put it together until age 29(the first year he saw a marked jump in his SO/BB ratio), his name was Randy Johnson . >>
Bingo. 30+ is generally less tenuous for exceptional power pitchers, and I suspect that J.R. was stripped of sustained greatness. We'll never know, unfortunately.
Btw, whoever mentioned Joe Delaney not only stole my thunder, but they deserve a huge and one. If you're a potential stud and literally sacrifice your own life, you need to be in this conversation. I'll never forget that guy.
J.R. Richard was coming into his own when he was felled. In late 1970s, he was just about Ryan's equal when it came to strikeouts, and a better pitcher than Ryan overall. The year he had the stroke he was on his way to a possible Cy Young Award with an ERA of 1.90 and a WHIP at a ridiculous 0.92 and 119 Ks in 113 IP, with an ERA+ of 174.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> Rumor has it, that in Dodgers practice before the 1977 World Series, that Koufax threw some batting practice...and was breaking bats Koufax was only 42 at that time, and he still had heat. It is very realistic, looking at how good he was, and how other similar good pitchers made it to the 40's(and were still good), to think what really could have been with him.
Imagine Koufax getting all the way up to having '77 and '78 Topps cards! >>
Heard a story once that Sandy showed up to a Dodgers fantasy camp and was throwing BP one year. One of the campers was teasing him about lighting up "the great Sandy Koufax" and got Sandy fired up. He started buzzing 'em in at 85mph. Sandy was like 65 at the time
<< <i>Thank you for the bio, he definitely looks like he was on his way to greatness and thankfully, the Basketball HOF honored him for the three years he spent on the court. >>
The basketball HOF recognizes all portions of a person's career - high school, college, pro, international, etc.
<< <i>Nobody mentioned Mike Tyson yet? I heard if he kept it together, he would've been better than Ali as the greatest ever. >>
You are right about Mike, but part of his problems is what made him great. Though I doubt there was ever a striker that ever walked the planet than Mike. He had the king punch .
MLB: Mark Fidrych, Joel Zumaya, both injured right after promising starts to their careers
NHL: Bobby Orr (knees), Ken Dryden (statistically might be the best goalie ever based on career stats but hung 'em up early due to interest in continuing law & politics careers), Mario Lemieux (obviously one of the absolute greatest ever but possibly could have been the #1 best player if not for the bad back plus lymphoma), and, Pelle Lindbergh (tragic accident)
In baseball, for me Koufax would be #1, followed by J.R. Richard, Bo, and perhaps Clemente. Whoever mentioned Kerry Wood... I see your point but I just didn't see him as overly exceptional even when healthy.
<< <i>In baseball, for me Koufax would be #1, followed by J.R. Richard, Bo, and perhaps Clemente. Whoever mentioned Kerry Wood... I see your point but I just didn't see him as overly exceptional even when healthy. >>
Wood was on the disabled list 14 times in a 13 year career and missed a whole year due to tommy John surgery. Before 2004 he was an exceptional pitcher, and then the injuries hit him. I think he could have put up a large amount of strikeouts if he hadn't had all of the injuries.
What I Collect:
PSA HOF Baseball Postwar Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 80.51% Complete)
PSA Pro Football HOF Rookie Players Set Registry- (Currently 19.80% Complete)
PSA Basketball HOF Players Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 6.02% Complete)
<< <i>MLB: Mark Fidrych, Joel Zumaya, both injured right after promising starts to their careers
NHL: Bobby Orr (knees), Ken Dryden (statistically might be the best goalie ever based on career stats but hung 'em up early due to interest in continuing law & politics careers), Mario Lemieux (obviously one of the absolute greatest ever but possibly could have been the #1 best player if not for the bad back plus lymphoma), and, Pelle Lindbergh (tragic accident) >>
Whoops, it is embarrassing that I forgot him on my first post on this thread, but lest we forget, one of the most obvious names for this list: Vladimir Konstantinov
<< <i> Whoops, it is embarrassing that I forgot him on my first post on this thread, but lest we forget, one of the most obvious names for this list: Vladimir Konstantinov >>
Ooooohhhh, good one! Here's another that had a lot of promise on the ice... Jiri Fischer (had to retire early due to heart problems). Scotty Bowman said Fischer definitely had the potential to be a HOFer.
I do miss Vladdie, though, and what a horrible way to have a career ended....
Since the name Vlad was mentioned although not the same person, what if Vlad Guerrero is drafted or signed by anyone other than the Expos? Probably sitting at or close to 600 HRs and 3000 hits with a few years left.
<< <i>Munson had a full career. There honestly wasn't all that much in front of him career-wise. >>
Curious as to why you would say that, he only played 11 seasons and in '78 (his last full year) he had 183 hits and 27 doubles.
His three year stretch '75-'77 were consistently good if not great years (MVP '76).
His power numbers seemed to be dropping, but he was still hitting for average, and I would assume still a great team leader.
32 is not THAT old! Fisk had a few down years here and there and played until he was 45! >>
His knees were already shot and he had no power. 101 OPS+ his last full year and 95 his final year. He might have hung around a few more years but he had already had his last good year.
Comments
Carl D. "Lightning" Lloyd Seay (December 14, 1919 – September 2, 1941) was an early stock car racing driver from Georgia. NASCAR founder Bill France, Sr. described Seay as the "best pure race driver I ever saw". He was shot to death by his cousin over a moonshine debitoperation the two had. His last name was pronounced as "See".
NASCAR:
Davey Allison - Helicopter crash at Talladega Superspeedway (Age 32)
Tim Richmond - HIV/AIDS (Age 34)
Dale Earnhardt Sr. - Last lap turn 4 crash 2001 Daytona 500 (Age 49)
Rob Moroso - Automobile crash (Age 22)
Maurice Stokes was an American professional basketball player in the 1950s, whose career (and later his life) was cut short by a debilitating injury. He was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and graduated from Saint Francis College in Loretto, Pennsylvania after helping to take the Red Flash team to Madison Square Garden for the 1955 National Invitation Tournament, where he was named Most Valuable Player even though his team finished fourth in the tournament.
NBA career:
Playing for the National Basketball Association's Rochester Royals (which became the Cincinnati Royals in 1957) from 1955 to 1958, Stokes grabbed 38 rebounds in a single game during his rookie season, averaged 16.3 rebounds per game overall, and was named NBA Rookie of the Year. The next season, he set a league record for most rebounds in a single season with 1,256 (17.4 per game). He played in the All-Star Game all three seasons of his tragically short career, and was named to the All-NBA second team three times. He was inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame as a player in September 2004.
Injury and illness:
On March 12, 1958, in the last game of the regular 1957–58 NBA season, in Minneapolis, Stokes drove to the basket, drew contact, fell to the floor, struck his head and lost consciousness. He was revived with smelling salts and returned to the game. Three days later, after a 12-point, 15-rebound performance in an opening-round playoff game at Detroit against the Pistons, he became ill on the team's flight back to Cincinnati; "I feel like I'm going to die," he told a teammate. He later suffered a seizure, fell into a coma and was left permanently paralyzed. In the end, he was diagnosed with post-traumatic encephalopathy, a brain injury that damaged his motor-control center."
The tragedy greatly shook the team: Stokes, a tremendous talent who could play center, forward or even guard, was second in the NBA in rebounds and third in assists in 1957-58, a feat only Wilt Chamberlain has matched for a full season. Without their best player the Royals nearly folded, but recovered after drafting superstar point guard Oscar Robertson two years later.
<< <i>I posted Maurice Stokes earlier and I'm rather surprised that no one else has seemed to notice. >>
i did. that's why i posted his name. before you did.
<< <i>
<< <i>I posted Maurice Stokes earlier and I'm rather surprised that no one else has seemed to notice. >>
i did. that's why i posted his name. before you did.
Sorry, I missed that. I was too busy worrying about DSR Dingers to notice, I guess.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I posted Maurice Stokes earlier and I'm rather surprised that no one else has seemed to notice. >>
i did. that's why i posted his name. before you did.
Sorry, I missed that. I was too busy worrying about DSR Dingers to notice, I guess.
2. Free your mind from worries - Most never happens.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I posted Maurice Stokes earlier and I'm rather surprised that no one else has seemed to notice. >>
i did. that's why i posted his name. before you did.
Sorry, I missed that. I was too busy worrying about DSR Dingers to notice, I guess.
2. Free your mind from worries - Most never happens.
Keep it up and we'll revisit second grade . . .
<< <i>JR Richard WAS just coming into his own...all you have to do is look at the indicators, in his last two/three years his SO/BB ratio, and BB/9IP ratio both took big jumps from his previous career norms, and those are good indicators of a pitcher 'getting it'. Those are also his two best ERA+ years.(he was age 29, and 30 his last two years).
Age of 30 is not bad at all for a pitcher. Another big strikeout pitcher, with poor control early on, that didn't put it together until age 29(the first year he saw a marked jump in his SO/BB ratio), his name was Randy Johnson
Bingo. 30+ is generally less tenuous for exceptional power pitchers, and I suspect that J.R. was stripped of sustained greatness. We'll never know, unfortunately.
Btw, whoever mentioned Joe Delaney not only stole my thunder, but they deserve a huge and one. If you're a potential stud and literally sacrifice your own life, you need to be in this conversation. I'll never forget that guy.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Tony
KalineFan
<< <i>Nobody mentioned Mike Tyson yet? I heard if he kept it together, he would've been better than Ali as the greatest ever. >>
Always thought Tyson was way overrated. Never beat any real champions or contenders.
How about:
Harry Agganis
Ken Hubbs
Lyman Bostock
Reggie Lewis
Pelle Lindberg
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
Also - this is numbered to 5000 - I'll bet ya there's more than one 5000 series?
<< <i>Nobody mentioned Mike Tyson yet? I heard if he kept it together, he would've been better than Ali as the greatest ever. >>
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
http://www.slamonline.com/online/the-magazine/old-school-2/2009/12/original-old-school-the-year-of-living-dangerously/
<< <i>
Rumor has it, that in Dodgers practice before the 1977 World Series, that Koufax threw some batting practice...and was breaking bats
Imagine Koufax getting all the way up to having '77 and '78 Topps cards!
Heard a story once that Sandy showed up to a Dodgers fantasy camp and was throwing BP one year. One of the campers was teasing him about lighting up "the great Sandy Koufax" and got Sandy fired up. He started buzzing 'em in at 85mph. Sandy was like 65 at the time
<< <i>Surprised no one mentioned Donny Baseball or Thurman Munson >>
Munson had a full career. There honestly wasn't all that much in front of him career-wise.
Mattingly is a good call - his back injury derailed his HOF career.
<< <i>Thank you for the bio, he definitely looks like he was on his way to greatness and thankfully, the Basketball HOF honored him for the three years he spent on the court. >>
The basketball HOF recognizes all portions of a person's career - high school, college, pro, international, etc.
<< <i>Nobody mentioned Mike Tyson yet? I heard if he kept it together, he would've been better than Ali as the greatest ever. >>
Who told you Ali was the greatest?
Senor Lead Foot
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
CU Ancient Members badge member.
Collection: https://flickr.com/photos/185200668@N06/albums
<< <i>
<< <i>Nobody mentioned Mike Tyson yet? I heard if he kept it together, he would've been better than Ali as the greatest ever. >>
Who told you Ali was the greatest? >>
The greatest ever according to most is Sugar Ray Robinson. Even Ali said that.
Gooden
Josh Hamilton
Lindros
Prior
Hank Gathers
PSA HOF Baseball Postwar Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 80.51% Complete)
PSA Pro Football HOF Rookie Players Set Registry- (Currently 19.80% Complete)
PSA Basketball HOF Players Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 6.02% Complete)
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Nobody mentioned Mike Tyson yet? I heard if he kept it together, he would've been better than Ali as the greatest ever. >>
Who told you Ali was the greatest? >>
The greatest ever according to most is Sugar Ray Robinson. Even Ali said that. >>
Sugar Ray Robinson was the greatest pound for pound boxer of all time. But, I do not think you can be the greatest unless you are a heavy weight.
<< <i>Nobody mentioned Mike Tyson yet? I heard if he kept it together, he would've been better than Ali as the greatest ever. >>
You are right about Mike, but part of his problems is what made him great. Though I doubt there was ever a striker that ever walked the planet than Mike. He had the king punch .
MLB: Mark Fidrych, Joel Zumaya, both injured right after promising starts to their careers
NHL: Bobby Orr (knees), Ken Dryden (statistically might be the best goalie ever based on career stats but hung 'em up early due to interest in continuing law & politics careers), Mario Lemieux (obviously one of the absolute greatest ever but possibly could have been the #1 best player if not for the bad back plus lymphoma), and, Pelle Lindbergh (tragic accident)
I always wondered if he was allowed to fight in his prime what he would have accomplished. HE WAS BANNED FROM FIGHTING IN HIS PRIME!
Greg Cook
Ki-Jana Carter
Len Bias
Dwight Gooden
Dave Dravecky
Bo Jackson
Bill Walton
Ted Williams
Christy Mathewson
Maurice Clarett
bobsbbcards SGC Registry Sets
<< <i>Munson had a full career. There honestly wasn't all that much in front of him career-wise. >>
Curious as to why you would say that, he only played 11 seasons and in '78 (his last full year) he had 183 hits and 27 doubles.
His three year stretch '75-'77 were consistently good if not great years (MVP '76).
His power numbers seemed to be dropping, but he was still hitting for average, and I would assume still a great team leader.
32 is not THAT old! Fisk had a few down years here and there and played until he was 45!
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Check out his numbers before his broken ankle. Trying not to say Bo.
<< <i>In baseball, for me Koufax would be #1, followed by J.R. Richard, Bo, and perhaps Clemente. Whoever mentioned Kerry Wood... I see your point but I just didn't see him as overly exceptional even when healthy. >>
Wood was on the disabled list 14 times in a 13 year career and missed a whole year due to tommy John surgery. Before 2004 he was an exceptional pitcher, and then the injuries hit him. I think he could have put up a large amount of strikeouts if he hadn't had all of the injuries.
PSA HOF Baseball Postwar Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 80.51% Complete)
PSA Pro Football HOF Rookie Players Set Registry- (Currently 19.80% Complete)
PSA Basketball HOF Players Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 6.02% Complete)
<< <i>MLB: Mark Fidrych, Joel Zumaya, both injured right after promising starts to their careers
NHL: Bobby Orr (knees), Ken Dryden (statistically might be the best goalie ever based on career stats but hung 'em up early due to interest in continuing law & politics careers), Mario Lemieux (obviously one of the absolute greatest ever but possibly could have been the #1 best player if not for the bad back plus lymphoma), and, Pelle Lindbergh (tragic accident) >>
Whoops, it is embarrassing that I forgot him on my first post on this thread, but lest we forget, one of the most obvious names for this list: Vladimir Konstantinov
<< <i>
Whoops, it is embarrassing that I forgot him on my first post on this thread, but lest we forget, one of the most obvious names for this list: Vladimir Konstantinov >>
Ooooohhhh, good one! Here's another that had a lot of promise on the ice... Jiri Fischer (had to retire early due to heart problems). Scotty Bowman said Fischer definitely had the potential to be a HOFer.
I do miss Vladdie, though, and what a horrible way to have a career ended....
<< <i>
<< <i>Munson had a full career. There honestly wasn't all that much in front of him career-wise. >>
Curious as to why you would say that, he only played 11 seasons and in '78 (his last full year) he had 183 hits and 27 doubles.
His three year stretch '75-'77 were consistently good if not great years (MVP '76).
His power numbers seemed to be dropping, but he was still hitting for average, and I would assume still a great team leader.
32 is not THAT old! Fisk had a few down years here and there and played until he was 45! >>
His knees were already shot and he had no power. 101 OPS+ his last full year and 95 his final year. He might have hung around a few more years but he had already had his last good year.