Brass or Copper?

Icollecteverything

What are the best ways to tell if a coin is brass or copper?

I posted a CWT on the "Copper for the Weekend" thread and years ago I wrote on the 2x2 that it may be brass. I am not even sure if there are acknowledged to be brass tokens for this variety since I sold my books long ago. I looked on ebay and out of about 7 or 8 tokens of the same variety one of them looked similar to mine with that yellow/golden color of brass. Maybe it's just the certain alloy used for this particular token? I have several other tokens and a world coin or two that I am really not sure of the material and sometimes there can be a large difference in value.

I did do some research but I didn't find anything specific for coins. Often it says you can tell by the color but that doesn't seem to be good enough especially with different mixes and then toning. Weight is very similar: Brass is 8.4 to 8.73 grams/cu. cm. and pure copper is 8.90 grams/cu. cm. Has anyone successfully used an accurate scale to tell the difference?

Another method with more promise is they say you can use a "heavy magnet" which will slightly attract brass but not copper. Can this be done thru paper or something else so you are not banging up the coin? Unfortunately I don't have a heavy magnet or maybe I could use one off a large speaker?

Any ideas out there??

coinsarefun

Do you have any images of the tokens?

LotsoLuck

The cwt you posted is copper. Brass is yellow in color and when tarnished will turn a black/brown, it won't develop the same colors as copper.

Broadstruck

If this is the one your talking about it's copper.



<< <i>This is one of my favorite Civil War tokens, I think because it looks like folk art.




>>

coinsarefun

I agree with Broadstruck and Lotsoluck. It still can be difficult sometimes to decipher as even NGC graded this Brown as in copper

AMRC

Considering Brass is made from Copper it makes it tricky. ,The ratio between the copper and zinc can vary greatly and still be called brass. No real easy way to tell because anything that says it is copper will more than likely trigger with the Brass as well.

Broadstruck

It's even tougher to decipher between copper and bronze.

Brass will tone with patina if it's been envelope stored for decades as seen below...

1858 Mulligan Jewelers, Philadelphia, Miller PA-370R / Wright 736, 32mm Diameter, Thick Brass Planchet, Reeded Edge, Rarity-5.

ambro51

Heavy Magnet? Attracting Brass?

ricko

A scanning electron microscope (SEM) will give you the best answer... Cheers, RickO

BillJones

The first introduction that I had in distinguishing between brass and copper was in the Patriotic Civil War token book. Their general guide was that a brass token has "the color of an old door knob." That got me started, and over time I have become decent at distinguishing between the two, but it's not always easy to do it.

When it is in its choice Uncirculated state, brass has a lighter color than copper or bronze. The brass color lacks the richness of the copper look, and that is perhaps the reason why the alloy has sort of cheap reputation. When it tones, brass never develops the rich brown color that can develop on choice copper and bronze pieces. It is always lighter in colon and always a yellow cast to it.

Here are a couple of examples.

This salamander token is made of brass.



This "Sign of Lion" token is made of copper or bronze. The Civil War Token Society stopped trying to distinguish between copper and bronze some years ago because it is simply too hard to do on a casual basis. Incidently I think this "lion" token design is kind of cool, and it is a hard design to find in nice condition.

Icollecteverything

<< <i>Heavy Magnet? Attracting Brass? >>



Are you saying that Wikipedia is lying to me?

Icollecteverything

<< <i>A scanning electron microscope (SEM) will give you the best answer... Cheers, RickO >>



Do jewelry shops usually have these?

Icollecteverything

Thanks for all the answers. The pic that Broadstruck brought over with the man with sword in front of the Monitor is the one I am talking about.

And no, I don't even want to think about differentiating copper and bronze!

I looked again at the ebay completeds of 257/311. Three out of the five are definitely copper but two of them have a more yellow color like mine. Link probably won't work? So either way, it doesn't look like they are rare.

Text

I think mine has a color similar to that really cool salamander token that Bill Jones put up and less like the more reddish color of the also very cool lion token.

This has made me wonder where all the various CWT makers got their blanks. I know some were struck over IHC's but that was not the norm since a big reason for making CWT's was all real coins were being hoarded.

I will have to look around and see if I have the others around here. I think one was a Lincoln CWT that had a sizeable difference in value in different metals.

BillJones

When I was a dealer I had a monitor token that looked like it was brass, and it was supposed to be rare in brass, but I knew it was common in copper. (Monitor tokens bring higher than normal prices relative to their rarity because of collector interest.) I showed to a couple of token dealers, and they concluded that it really did not qualify as brass because it didn't "smell right" to them. Apparently brass can have a fishy smell.

It is sometimes hard to determine the metallic content of some tokens because these pieces were made by private manufacturers who had no legal standards to satisfy. The name of the game was to make the tokens as cheaply as possible which is one of the reasons why stock dies frequently appear on multiple merchant tokens. It was also okay if the tokens were light weight and smaller than then normal cent so long as the customers accepted them. In fact the acceptance of thinner, cent sized Civil War tokens was one of the reasons why the 1864 Bronze cent became the government standard.

And, no, the dealer who made the comment about brass having a fishy smell did not buy my monitor token. In other words he didn't say that to buy it from me at a cheaper price.