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1893-S MORGAN DOLLAR MINT ERROR PCGS VF30 on the bay

Neat error
image

Comments

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow...and on a very special coin.... Cheers, RickO
  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Too bad it is on that coin, rather than a simple 93-O or P.
  • I can understand the VF-30 grade but it actually looks like very little wear, and very few nicks or marks. Maybe a very weak strike? Due to the lamination? IDK, I'm just guessing.

    Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.

  • Anyone care to guess what it would take to get that coin?
    image
  • MedalCollectorMedalCollector Posts: 2,020 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lamination or struck through?
  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,873 ✭✭✭✭✭
    unusual slab view
    LCoopie = Les
  • EXOJUNKIEEXOJUNKIE Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like it is struck through, not a laminated planchet. And I personally like the coin's original look.
    I'm addicted to exonumia ... it is numismatic crack!

    ANA LM

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  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lamination

    Nice how it makes it right to the rim and ends there

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's a lamination. A strike through would not show design elements in the void.

    This is a tough coin to price since error collectors generally collect for error type and, when possible, avoid the more expensive canvas (i.e. key coins) when buying. "Normal" collectors tend to want key coins that are non-errors. So, this coin is sort of in the ether when it comes to pricing. [I believe Fred W. refers to these as "white elephants."]

    It would not surprise me at all for this to sell below VF-30 price for a 1893-S. It's a nice coin, nonetheless.
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • CMCARTCMCART Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭
    Wow
    Abraham Lincoln (February 12, 1809 – April 15, 1865)
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    02121809
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  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It's a lamination. A strike through would not show design elements in the void.

    This is a tough coin to price since error collectors generally collect for error type and, when possible, avoid the more expensive canvas (i.e. key coins) when buying. "Normal" collectors tend to want key coins that are non-errors. So, this coin is sort of in the ether when it comes to pricing. [I believe Fred W. refers to these as "white elephants."]

    It would not surprise me at all for this to sell below VF-30 price for a 1893-S. It's a nice coin, nonetheless. >>



    If I wanted am 1893-S in VF30, I would prefer one without the lamination.

    If I wanted a laminated Morgan Dollar, I would prefer one that doesn't cost a fortune and would look for a common date. I think that the coin will sell for less than a normally struck 1893 $1 would.
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd prefer my '93-S plain. Cool error but wrong year/mm.
    Lance.
  • MedalCollectorMedalCollector Posts: 2,020 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>A strike through would not show design elements in the void. >>



    There are many cases where this is completely untrue.
  • I spoke with two different Morgan Error Collectors. They both agreed that the coins normal premium will likely void any error premium.

    We shall see.
    Morgan Everyman Set
    Member, Society of Silver Dollar Collectors.
    Looking for PCGS AU58+ 1901-P, 1896-O, & 1894-O
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm surprised by the pricing talk.

    If I were an error collector, i'd buy a key date error for a premium.

    I guess I'm not wise enough to see the error in my way.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • PacecarPacecar Posts: 51 ✭✭✭
    Can someone please explain how this happens? Interesting coin, to say the least.
    Pacecar
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It's a lamination. A strike through would not show design elements in the void.

    This is a tough coin to price since error collectors generally collect for error type and, when possible, avoid the more expensive canvas (i.e. key coins) when buying. "Normal" collectors tend to want key coins that are non-errors. So, this coin is sort of in the ether when it comes to pricing. [I believe Fred W. refers to these as "white elephants."]

    It would not surprise me at all for this to sell below VF-30 price for a 1893-S. It's a nice coin, nonetheless. >>



    I totally agree with this! I would not want this example as the key date of my set and it has way too much premium as an example for an error. I say it sells for weak VF money...if not F+ money.....but all it takes is 2 that want a "white elephant"! image
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,745 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Can someone please explain how this happens? Interesting coin, to say the least. >>



    The metal sheet simply had a tiny portion (relative size) that did not mix well nor bond well with the rest. From the looks of the coin, that piece remained through planchet punching and striking then fell off post striking. This is why the design is at the bottom of the defect.


    A better term is delamination. Just don't get the impression that the sheet stock is composed of laminated sheets. Delamination is just the process where a layer of something peels off the underlying material.


    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would not want this as a non-error coin either. It is an error. It is an error collector's coin. The question to me is if it gets a double premium or just a premium, or as some suggest a discount down.


    eBay item for oohs and aahs


    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • TomBTomB Posts: 22,070 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd imagine this would harm the liquidity and value of this piece.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭
    Thank you for the nice words about my coin. Well it will be my coin for another 5 days or so, until the auction closes.

    Let me reintroduce myself, I joined this forum about 10 years ago but have been inactive for the last 7 years or so. The kind folks at CU let me rejoin under this name as my old password and email address have been long lost in the ether.

    I would like to share a bit of history on this coin and in a later post, my views about the valuation as this thread has initiated a friendly debate as to whether the error adds or detracts from the coin's intrinsic value.

    I purchased (and auctioned) this Morgan 8 or 9 years ago (the first time) and a thread was started here by a another member who found the coin and error to be of interest. As I recall the thread received over a hundred responses and created much attention for this unusual Dollar.

    Many opined, as you are now, about the ultimate sale price. The market for this date/mm is a bit softer than it was in 2005 or so by about 15%. market price for a VF30 was $6000 when I last auctioned this coin and is about $5300 today. The coin sold for a substantial premium to the $6000 base last time. I would suspect the same to be true this time.

    I snapped this Morgan back up when the opportunity presented itself and here we go again.




  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    I think this coin is pretty cool. Key date + error....awesome
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  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Thank you for the nice words about my coin. Well it will be my coin for another 5 days or so, until the auction closes.

    Let me reintroduce myself, I joined this forum about 10 years ago but have been inactive for the last 7 years or so. The kind folks at CU let me rejoin under this name as my old password and email address have been long lost in the ether.

    I would like to share a bit of history on this coin and in a later post, my views about the valuation as this thread has initiated a friendly debate as to whether the error adds or detracts from the coin's intrinsic value.

    I purchased (and auctioned) this Morgan 8 or 9 years ago (the first time) and a thread was started here by a another member who found the coin and error to be of interest. As I recall the thread received over a hundred responses and created much attention for this unusual Dollar.

    Many opined, as you are now, about the ultimate sale price. The market for this date/mm is a bit softer than it was in 2005 or so by about 15%. market price for a VF30 was $6000 when I last auctioned this coin and is about $5300 today. The coin sold for a substantial premium to the $6000 base last time. I would suspect the same to be true this time.

    I snapped this Morgan back up when the opportunity presented itself and here we go again. >>



    Do you think there are 2 or more "White Elephants" this go round? I simply stated what would not work for my collection...no way would that match a well put together set. I can't recall seeing a key date with an error bring a premium...not that they don't.
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The coin sold for a substantial premium to the $6000 base last time. I would suspect the same to be true this time. >>





    Me, too! Afterall, how many slabbed 'error' 93-S examples are even out there?
  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭
    This is my thought on valuation. The 1893-S is of course the key date of the series. Though it is a pricey coin in this grade to most collectors (myself included) it is still of a modest price compared to higher grade specimens. For example, in XF 40, the price doubles to $11k, in AU it soars to $30K and hits over $200,000 in MS64.

    The deep pocketed collector may consider this perhaps unique coin to be of a value closer to XF40 money. As he proudly shows off his Morgan set to his collector friends, he can be certain that this Dollar will garner more ooohs and aaahs than any XF or even AU Morgan in his cabinet.

    With respect to those that think that this error is disruptive to price, I would see the point if we were talking about say a common date MS68 Morgan whose price rises exponentially from 67 to 68. A numismatist would certainly want a pristine coin for his $5000. In the 1893-s where the lowest problem free examples are $2500 plus, and the base on the VF30 is $5300 or so, there is plenty of opportunity for a premium.
  • I like the coin for the error as I am a fan of lamination peals. As to price some of your comments seem to be a sales pitch IMHO. The pricing point is well made and we will have to see if the error will bring a premium over grade or if it will devalue the grade in the current market. Pricing on errors and their determination is such a debatable topic simply because of supply, demand, and overall desire for the coin and the error on that coin. This coin does not fit into most sets except for an error or lamination error set.
  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I like the coin for the error as I am a fan of lamination peals. As to price some of your comments seem to be a sales pitch IMHO. The pricing point is well made and we will have to see if the error will bring a premium over grade or if it will devalue the grade in the current market. Pricing on errors and their determination is such a debatable topic simply because of supply, demand, and overall desire for the coin and the error on that coin. This coin does not fit into most sets except for an error or lamination error set. >>



    Seems that about half of the posts are regarding the value. The balance address the error itself. Am I not entitled as well to my rationale for why a premium is warranted? You started the thread, not me.
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I like the coin for the error as I am a fan of lamination peals. As to price some of your comments seem to be a sales pitch IMHO. The pricing point is well made and we will have to see if the error will bring a premium over grade or if it will devalue the grade in the current market. Pricing on errors and their determination is such a debatable topic simply because of supply, demand, and overall desire for the coin and the error on that coin. This coin does not fit into most sets except for an error or lamination error set. >>



    Seems that about half of the posts are regarding the value. The balance address the error itself. Am I not entitled as well to my rationale for why a premium is warranted? You started the thread, not me. >>



    LOLOLOL! I actually agree with his statement 100%!
  • CuKevinCuKevin Posts: 1,738 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I like the coin for the error as I am a fan of lamination peals. As to price some of your comments seem to be a sales pitch IMHO. The pricing point is well made and we will have to see if the error will bring a premium over grade or if it will devalue the grade in the current market. Pricing on errors and their determination is such a debatable topic simply because of supply, demand, and overall desire for the coin and the error on that coin. This coin does not fit into most sets except for an error or lamination error set. >>



    Seems that about half of the posts are regarding the value. The balance address the error itself. Am I not entitled as well to my rationale for why a premium is warranted? You started the thread, not me. >>



    MGLICKER did not start this thread. He merely found it and put his 2c in on the subject. And many of the other responses are about its value. Who would know its price history better than him (since he has bought and sold it a few times)? Not a sales pitch, just his side of the story.
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  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Glicker, if it is of any interest, I know someone who will be watching this intently. He probably is in the Top 10 of Morgan Error collectors right now. I would be surprised if he didn't end up with it. I'll see him on 12/8 and will ask how he fared.

    For the OP: *delamination peels. A peal is a loud repeated or reverberating sound, as from a bell.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
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  • Hey thanks coindeuce did not even realize I was doing that. As I stated Just my opinion. I my self would of course try my best to justify pricing of any item I am selling, in that way i am improving my chances for a greater profit. Also as I stated I like this coin it is of interest to me and that is why I also started this thread full well knowing that some of the best of the board would give their honest opinions of this coin. I was not attacking you or in any way stating you do not have a right to your opinion.
  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Glicker, if it is of any interest, I know someone who will be watching this intently. He probably is in the Top 10 of Morgan Error collectors right now. I would be surprised if he didn't end up with it. I'll see him on 12/8 and will ask how he fared.

    For the OP: *delamination peels. A peal is a loud repeated or reverberating sound, as from a bell. >>



    Thank you Coindeuce and delamination does make more sense than calling it a lamination error. I should have remembered that from my days selling ready to assemble furniture.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just over 3h left

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • Final price...

    $4,950
    Morgan Everyman Set
    Member, Society of Silver Dollar Collectors.
    Looking for PCGS AU58+ 1901-P, 1896-O, & 1894-O
  • This content has been removed.
  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>To note, The winner had a 50% bidding history with the seller. >>



    That would be more noteworthy and suspicious of the high bidder had bid on more than two total items in the past 6 months. One was this coin and one was a boat part. If he hadnt bid on the boat part it would be 100% with this seller. Meaningless.
  • The winner has a 117 ebay rating. Where do you see the 2?
    Morgan Everyman Set
    Member, Society of Silver Dollar Collectors.
    Looking for PCGS AU58+ 1901-P, 1896-O, & 1894-O
  • So did this item pull more or less than you thought it would?


  • << <i>So did this item pull more or less than you thought it would? >>



    from the two Morgan Error Collectors I spoke with this brought less than estimated.

    But this is a bad time to sell Morgan Errors and VAMs. The reason is Heritage has some 250-300 VAMs and 10 Errors for auction next weekend. Of the five or six big buyers I know, all are reserving their funds for that auction.
    Morgan Everyman Set
    Member, Society of Silver Dollar Collectors.
    Looking for PCGS AU58+ 1901-P, 1896-O, & 1894-O
  • Figured something had to be affecting the sale sa I thought it would go just over 5000.00

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