Blue toning on IHC

erwindoc

What is the forum's opinion on blue toned Indian cents? Is it natural or some sort of old cleaning(MS70)

LanceNewmanOCC

.
case-by-case basis and lincolns are included in this as i've seen a ton of them with the same hue of blue. coincidence? perhaps.
.

blu62vette

Not sure if you can search for this but there have been some good discussions in the past on this.

TheRegulator

In my opinion, the vast majority of them have been MS70ed.

copperhunter

There seems to be a lot of those slabbed ATS....

coinbuf

<< <i>There seems to be a lot of those slabbed ATS.... >>



And some on this side of the street to. PCGS MS65BN

illini420

I didn't have a problem with the blue toning on this proof... I don't think it was MS70 either:

braddick

If anyone states or accuses you of flame baiting or trolling with this question just disregard their accusation as simply being jealous of your ability to come up with interesting topics and not at all provocative threads.

EagleEye

There are a number of different processes associated with "blue" toning on copper.

One is what I call the Acetone effect, which is the removal of natural occurring oils on coins that are BN or RB. The result is something that looks like this:



Whatever solvent you use, MS70, acetone, laquer thinner, or whatever, the blueish tone is an unnatural look. It can be cured by reapplying some oil to the coin. So, it is not really a toning alteration, it is a stripped coin. Don't pay a premium for this type of toning, but don't condemn it either. Just understand that someone dipped it in solvent. BTW, that coin is junk! I grade it MS63BN.

That said, Proof Indian cents come with blue and magenta and emerald toning all the time. These came out in the 1930's when old hoards came to light. Check out the Eliasberg sale - it had some. It is long-term envelope toning. Sometimes debris of the ages covers the toning up and makes it brown, or slightly muted. Take away the debris and you find the old toning again. This is real toning, uncoverd by a solvent. Collectors pay strong premiums for it.



There may be instances where you have a combination of the two processes I mentioned, but neither process creates toning by using any solvent.

I wrote an in-depth article on this, and I'll be happy to post it tomorrow.

SoCalBigMark

Marguli'd?

Elcontador

There are various shades of bluish toning. The type I make a point to avoid is neon blue PF copper. Everything else is on a case by case basis.

jom

<< <i>Marguli'd? >>



I understand what you are saying here but if I recall correctly it is what Elcontador has stated above. It's Proof INDIAN cents you should look out for when it comes to your quote. All else is case by case as stated.

jom

291fifth

Use of Goo-Gone or ammonia will result in blue toning on copper coins.

keets

what SoCalBigMark said.

despite Rick's expertise in this area I don't believe it to be as simple as he states. certainly there are some coins with toning like this which occur naturally but most are......................manipulated. also, I have never seen the use of acetone on any coin bring out color like this, usually it does nothing at all without the aid of a toothpick or cotton swab. on the other hand, let's consider MS70.

erwindoc

<< <i>If anyone states or accuses you of flame baiting or trolling with this question just disregard their accusation as simply being jealous of your ability to come up with interesting topics and not at all provocative threads. >>



I searched before, because I remember seeing it in the past. Perhaps I used the wrong terms, cause I came up with zilch! I just saw a few blue toned IHCs and was curious about them in terms of legitimate toning or enhanced. They are not my area of expertise. I have considered assembling a "blue toned type set" and they came to mind.

Walkerguy21D

<< <i>Don't pay a premium for this type of toning, but don't condemn it either. Just understand that someone dipped it in solvent. >>


I am so glad to see someone of Rick's calibre state this, as I feel the same way.
If some purists don't like it that's fine, if some services won't slab them (sometimes!), that's fine too.
But oftentimes, to me, they can look very attractive - much nicer than (acid) dipped 'pink' copper!

Salvaged from long term PVC storage with MS70:

ricko

I agree with Rick about stripping copper and it resulting in blue coloration.... of course, that is not the only way it is achieved. Dips will also produce such a result. Sniffers may eliminate some of the copper discolored in this manner. It can be a risky area and each coin must be carefully evaluated on it's own merits/condition. Cheers, RickO

EagleEye

jmj3esq

This was the subject of another thread, but here is a bluish toned IHC I thought was NT. PCGS said it was questionable color. I have seen others almost identical in graded PCGS slabs. They seem to be pretty inconsistent when it comes to these:

ThePennyLady

Rick, thank you for posting your extremely informative and useful article. There is so much controversy about toned copper, and this certainly helps us understand a little more how copper can become colorfully toned, particularly proofs.

PQueue

Great information EagleEye.