I have seen this coin in person, it is amazing. A few experts at the last EAC convention thought that it will sell for $1 million or more.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Incredible coin. I think the 1793 Half Cents are my single favorite early federal issue, design-wise. Something about the high relief of the obverse and the intricacy of the reverse wreath. The 5 examples in the Missouri Cabinet together are unreal.
There should be a handful of million dollar coins in this sale.
<< <i>I have seen this coin in person, it is amazing. A few experts at the last EAC convention thought that it will sell for $1 million or more. >>
I don't think 1 million will even be close to buying it. >>
The only thing that might hold it back is that it is not red, but there are no 1793 Half Cents in red so far as I know.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Numismatic Photographer for Superior/Ira & Larry Goldberg since 1990, Photographer of THE TYRANT COLLECTION one of the greatest collection ever formed.
Does a coin like this really have full cartwheels and luster as described in the auction description?
I've never had the privilege to see an MS 1790's anything in person and it's hard to fathom. Especially copper. >>
I haven't seen this particular coin in hand, but cartwheel luster on early copper is all about flowlines. This piece, being a rather advanced die state, has pretty good ones on the obverse at least and I would bet the luster is incredible in hand.
Both sets of images are fantastic. Not sure which one I like better. The TV definitely gives a better sense of luster, but photoguy's allows for a better appreciation of the surface quality IMO.
<< <i>Look at the H in HALF CENT on the reverse..... >>
look at the 1 over 200.
it would not surprise me if this coin when over 1M. i think it's a like a precious work of art and should be priced and prized as such. i am glad to hear from those who have seen this in person and confirmed it is amazing.
CRO: <I don't think 1 million will even be close to buying it. >>
ShoreColl: <<It wouldn't be the craziest coin to sell for $1M. >>
I do not think that any 1793 is the most valuable half cent in the Tettenhorst-Missouri Collection. The PCGS-67RB 1794 and the 1796 No Pole may each sell for more?
I agree and do not think it will hit $1 million. The 1794 in 67 Red/Brown will probably be closer.
Why CAC this coin? Besides gold, copper coins are probably the most often doctored. And you can probably imagine the price jump from a 63 or 64 to a 65 is huge, and the enticement to "improve" the coin could possibly be there. Thankfully it was not for the owner of this amazing collection.
9999!
All coins kept in bank vaults. PCGS Registries Box of 20 SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
It's out of my league too. I have a VF with a couple rim issues. At least it has good color.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>Why CAC this coin? Besides gold, copper coins are probably the most often doctored. And you can probably imagine the price jump from a 63 or 64 to a 65 is huge, and the enticement to "improve" the coin could possibly be there. Thankfully it was not for the owner of this amazing collection. >>
I would think that with this coin PCGS was very careful in determining the grade and whether it was doctored (I infer that it is in a SecurePlus holder given the collection name is included on the holder and the value of the coin).
Anyway, as TDN stated, what's $20 bucks thrown away for the perceived "insurance" to further reassure a buyer? I guess that has some merit, but I suspect the buyers of this coin don't feel it was necessary.
<< <i>Why CAC this coin? Besides gold, copper coins are probably the most often doctored. And you can probably imagine the price jump from a 63 or 64 to a 65 is huge, and the enticement to "improve" the coin could possibly be there. Thankfully it was not for the owner of this amazing collection. >>
I would think that with this coin PCGS was very careful in determining the grade and whether it was doctored (I infer that it is in a SecurePlus holder given the collection name is included on the holder and the value of the coin).
Anyway, as TDN stated, what's $20 bucks thrown away for the perceived "insurance" to further reassure a buyer? I guess that has some merit, but I suspect the buyers of this coin don't feel it was necessary. >>
You'd be surprised what some buyers perceive as necessary
<< <i>Why CAC this coin? Besides gold, copper coins are probably the most often doctored. And you can probably imagine the price jump from a 63 or 64 to a 65 is huge, and the enticement to "improve" the coin could possibly be there. Thankfully it was not for the owner of this amazing collection. >>
I would think that with this coin PCGS was very careful in determining the grade and whether it was doctored (I infer that it is in a SecurePlus holder given the collection name is included on the holder and the value of the coin).
Anyway, as TDN stated, what's $20 bucks thrown away for the perceived "insurance" to further reassure a buyer? I guess that has some merit, but I suspect the buyers of this coin don't feel it was necessary. >>
You'd be surprised what some buyers perceive as necessary >>
A great many collectors, who specialize in early copper, are not nearly as concerned about the opinions of CAC and third party graders as you are, Catbert. The early copper market is different from other areas of the U.S. coin market. A lot of those collectors and dealers know more about preservation issues with early copper than your average third party grader.
I was sitting with the guys who sold the Dam Holms collection. If they didn't care for what it said on the slab, they were ready to crack out a coin worth tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars at the drop of a hat.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Bill - I did know that. I challenged the need for the sticker. I brought up the SecurePlus holder in response to Ankur's concerns about doctoring and grade.
<< <i>Just to satisfy my curiosity, what is that "dot of metal" just below the ear? >>
That is the center dot punch that the die sinker used to center the placement of the bust and the lettering. It's like the sharp of a compass you would use to draw a circle. Marks like this are often visible on high grade early U.S. coins.
There is one just below Ms. Liberty's ear on this 1795 half dollar.
There is also one in the hair detail of this 1805 dime. Look toward the center of the piece, and you will find it.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
CoinOsaurus: <<The 1794 is 67RB is my favorite. There is something amazing about any early copper coin with red in it, that sheer rarity can't match.>>
I, too, very much like this coin. I wrote a whole article about it. It does have an amazing amount of original mint red!
BillJones: <<That is the center dot punch that the die sinker used to center the placement of the bust and the lettering. It's like the sharp of a compass you would use to draw a circle. Marks like this are often visible on high grade early U.S. coins. >>
Yes, I have seen such marks on a large number of early U.S. coins. It would take many hours to list them.
"In order to understand the scarce coins that you own or see, you must learn about coins that you cannot afford." -Me
Certainly a very special coin in our country's history. Many would like to see it in a museum, but for me that would be very disappointing. I just hope it remains in private hands, which will eventually transfer ownership and stimulate those of us that love this hobby. FWIW: I don't think the US Government should own/hold any rare coins in it's inventory in the Smithsonian. The government as a "coin collector" is offensive to me.
Thank you for explaining that. I have seen many collections thru auction catologues over the last 25 + years and this is the first time I ever noticed these "helpers". Thank you once again.
I would be curios to see the grades that an experienced EAC member would grade these treasures. I saw that Goldberg's gave their opinion but I would like to see the EAC opinion. Maybe in the future the auction companies could hire a member for their conservative opinion. Many times NGC and PCGS tend to be gracious with their grading. I believe Heritage recently had the opinion of a very knowledgeable and highly respected member of EAC to "net grade" a collection.
This coin and collection will go down as one of the most noted collections to be sold. IMHO collectors and dealers will site this collection as we do Garrett, Pittman, Norweb and Eliasberg. Missouri only had half cents! WOW WOW WOW
steveben
Posts: 4,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
<< <i>I have seen this coin in person, it is amazing. A few experts at the last EAC convention thought that it will sell for $1 million or more. >>
I don't think 1 million will even be close to buying it.
Coin Rarities Online
There should be a handful of million dollar coins in this sale.
<< <i>
<< <i>I have seen this coin in person, it is amazing. A few experts at the last EAC convention thought that it will sell for $1 million or more. >>
I don't think 1 million will even be close to buying it. >>
The only thing that might hold it back is that it is not red, but there are no 1793 Half Cents in red so far as I know.
Does a coin like this really have full cartwheels and luster as described in the auction description?
I've never had the privilege to see an MS 1790's anything in person and it's hard to fathom. Especially copper.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
-Paul
Freaking Awesome Coin though!!!
Edit to add: That collection has many amazing coins in it!
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
An incredible coin......
Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots
<< <i>What an outstanding coin this is.
Does a coin like this really have full cartwheels and luster as described in the auction description?
I've never had the privilege to see an MS 1790's anything in person and it's hard to fathom. Especially copper. >>
I haven't seen this particular coin in hand, but cartwheel luster on early copper is all about flowlines. This piece, being a rather advanced die state, has pretty good ones on the obverse at least and I would bet the luster is incredible in hand.
Both sets of images are fantastic. Not sure which one I like better. The TV definitely gives a better sense of luster, but photoguy's allows for a better appreciation of the surface quality IMO.
Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots
<< <i>Look at the H in HALF CENT on the reverse.....
look at the 1 over 200.
it would not surprise me if this coin when over 1M. i think it's a like a precious work of art and should be priced and prized as such. i am glad to hear from those who have seen this in person and confirmed it is amazing.
Regarding the Tettenhorst PCGS-66-Brown 1793,
CRO: <I don't think 1 million will even be close to buying it. >>
ShoreColl: <<It wouldn't be the craziest coin to sell for $1M. >>
I do not think that any 1793 is the most valuable half cent in the Tettenhorst-Missouri Collection. The PCGS-67RB 1794 and the 1796 No Pole may each sell for more?
The Missouri Half Cent Collection Part 1: Tettenhorst 1796 'No Pole' Liberty Cap
The Missouri Half Cent Collection, Part II: Tettenhorst, Superb Gem 1794
<< <i>With a distinctive and incredible coin like that, why get an irrelevant CAC review? >>
because when you pay seven figures for something knowing it's not been doctored at the cost of $20 is good insurance?
Why CAC this coin? Besides gold, copper coins are probably the most often doctored. And you can probably imagine the price jump from a 63 or 64 to a 65 is huge, and the enticement to "improve" the coin could possibly be there. Thankfully it was not for the owner of this amazing collection.
9999!
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
<< <i>I agree and do not think it will hit $1 million. The 1794 in 67 Red/Brown will probably be closer. >>
We will find out in the next 48 hours. In any case, they are both incredible!
<< <i>I have seen this coin in person, it is amazing. A few experts at the last EAC convention thought that it will sell for $1 million or more. >>
Although I would consider myself a knowledgeable collector, I concur with those "expert" friends of mine!
Getting excited for tomorrow.
<< <i>Why CAC this coin? Besides gold, copper coins are probably the most often doctored. And you can probably imagine the price jump from a 63 or 64 to a 65 is huge, and the enticement to "improve" the coin could possibly be there. Thankfully it was not for the owner of this amazing collection. >>
I would think that with this coin PCGS was very careful in determining the grade and whether it was doctored (I infer that it is in a SecurePlus holder given the collection name is included on the holder and the value of the coin).
Anyway, as TDN stated, what's $20 bucks thrown away for the perceived "insurance" to further reassure a buyer? I guess that has some merit, but I suspect the buyers of this coin don't feel it was necessary.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
<< <i>
<< <i>Why CAC this coin? Besides gold, copper coins are probably the most often doctored. And you can probably imagine the price jump from a 63 or 64 to a 65 is huge, and the enticement to "improve" the coin could possibly be there. Thankfully it was not for the owner of this amazing collection. >>
I would think that with this coin PCGS was very careful in determining the grade and whether it was doctored (I infer that it is in a SecurePlus holder given the collection name is included on the holder and the value of the coin).
Anyway, as TDN stated, what's $20 bucks thrown away for the perceived "insurance" to further reassure a buyer? I guess that has some merit, but I suspect the buyers of this coin don't feel it was necessary. >>
You'd be surprised what some buyers perceive as necessary
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Why CAC this coin? Besides gold, copper coins are probably the most often doctored. And you can probably imagine the price jump from a 63 or 64 to a 65 is huge, and the enticement to "improve" the coin could possibly be there. Thankfully it was not for the owner of this amazing collection. >>
I would think that with this coin PCGS was very careful in determining the grade and whether it was doctored (I infer that it is in a SecurePlus holder given the collection name is included on the holder and the value of the coin).
Anyway, as TDN stated, what's $20 bucks thrown away for the perceived "insurance" to further reassure a buyer? I guess that has some merit, but I suspect the buyers of this coin don't feel it was necessary. >>
You'd be surprised what some buyers perceive as necessary >>
A great many collectors, who specialize in early copper, are not nearly as concerned about the opinions of CAC and third party graders as you are, Catbert. The early copper market is different from other areas of the U.S. coin market. A lot of those collectors and dealers know more about preservation issues with early copper than your average third party grader.
I was sitting with the guys who sold the Dam Holms collection. If they didn't care for what it said on the slab, they were ready to crack out a coin worth tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars at the drop of a hat.
<< <i>Just to satisfy my curiosity, what is that "dot of metal" just below the ear? >>
That is the center dot punch that the die sinker used to center the placement of the bust and the lettering. It's like the sharp of a compass you would use to draw a circle. Marks like this are often visible on high grade early U.S. coins.
There is one just below Ms. Liberty's ear on this 1795 half dollar.
There is also one in the hair detail of this 1805 dime. Look toward the center of the piece, and you will find it.
CoinOsaurus: <<The 1794 is 67RB is my favorite. There is something amazing about any early copper coin with red in it, that sheer rarity can't match.>>
I, too, very much like this coin. I wrote a whole article about it. It does have an amazing amount of original mint red!
The Missouri Half Cent Collection, Part II: Tettenhorst, Superb Gem 1794
BillJones: <<That is the center dot punch that the die sinker used to center the placement of the bust and the lettering. It's like the sharp of a compass you would use to draw a circle. Marks like this are often visible on high grade early U.S. coins. >>
Yes, I have seen such marks on a large number of early U.S. coins. It would take many hours to list them.
OINK
last 25 + years and this is the first time I ever noticed these "helpers". Thank you
once again.
these treasures. I saw that Goldberg's gave their opinion but I would like to see
the EAC opinion. Maybe in the future the auction companies could hire a member
for their conservative opinion. Many times NGC and PCGS tend to be gracious with
their grading. I believe Heritage recently had the opinion of a very knowledgeable
and highly respected member of EAC to "net grade" a collection.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Other predictions.
The total realized for the five most expensive lots will top the presale aggregated estimate of approx. $5,000,000 for the entire collection.
The entire sale will bring in $20,000,000.
Laurie will buy something.....
Tett and EPN will share a pint of Breyers vanilla ice-cream VSOP and kvel about their grand-kids.
Plus ca change, plus la meme chose.
And the beat goes on........
If the good colonel wants to say two, then he can name that tune.