Newman sale - raising coin prices or did everyone just overpay?

seateddime

Are prices going way up on coins or did people just bury themselves?

Compare this coin with this one from the Newman sale

Yes the coin is pretty but it's not rare.

The bids I figured were too insane to lose were most all the under bidder, 20 times someone either bid or cut bid some very insane bids I placed.

CoinRaritiesOnline

<< <i>Are prices going way up on coins or did people just bury themselves?

Compare this coin with this one from the Newman sale

Yes the coin is pretty but it's not rare.

The bids I figured were too insane to lose were most all the under bidder, 20 times someone either bid or cut bid some very insane bids I placed. >>



If people were interested in buying a coin or two out of Newman, in the relatively affordable category, in a particular series, wanted something pretty, and actually viewed the lots, I don't think there were all that many to choose from and they ended up bidding on the same few lots.

crypto79

<< <i>

<< <i>Are prices going way up on coins or did people just bury themselves?

Compare this coin with this one from the Newman sale

Yes the coin is pretty but it's not rare.

The bids I figured were too insane to lose were most all the under bidder, 20 times someone either bid or cut bid some very insane bids I placed. >>



If people were interested in buying a coin or two out of Newman, in the relatively affordable category, in a particular series, wanted something pretty, and actually viewed the lots, I don't think there were all that many to choose from and they ended up bidding on the same few lots. >>



Intriguing observation, I think you are spot on

291fifth

A good dose of irrational exuberance was evident.

nags

I think a little of rising prices, and a larger amount of overpaying.

One coin I bought was the one GSA dollar with the Newman pedigree. It is for my core collections so I wasn't really concerned with burying myself with that one, but I know I paid over three times market value for a very ordinary coin. I suspect, based on the results, that many others had similar purchases.

tradedollarnut

We paid an all time record price for a gem 1803 dollar. I am sure the priceguides will go up but how do you price something that didn't exist before?

TwoSides2aCoin

Rising tide lifts all ships.

keets

if I understand everyone's impression of the sale and the coins, many were average and sold high with help from the Pedigree. it doesn't make sense that other same grade coins would be affected by that and I wonder if those who make the price changes will be influenced. just from the discussion it would seem that the most benefit from the collection will go to NGC at least initially.

seateddime

<< <i>We paid an all time record price for a gem 1803 dollar. I am sure the priceguides will go up but how do you price something that didn't exist before? >>




One the once in a lifetime coins I can see raising the bar to the new price level. That makes sense.

I tried on a few coins too but on something that is common, sells often and was nothing special how can one justify paying 8-10x the current value?

Prices for this sale for non cac and common coins was insane. I will I could have been selling in that sale.

bidask

I think prices go up in gem ms bust and seated

Everything else stays the same

There could even be an argument we are at the top for most
other US coins .....

agentjim007

Are those scratches in the obv. field on the Newman coin. They look like it to me and this coin was put in a problem free holder and was CAC'd.

MidLifeCrisis

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Are prices going way up on coins or did people just bury themselves?

Compare this coin with this one from the Newman sale

Yes the coin is pretty but it's not rare.

The bids I figured were too insane to lose were most all the under bidder, 20 times someone either bid or cut bid some very insane bids I placed. >>



If people were interested in buying a coin or two out of Newman, in the relatively affordable category, in a particular series, wanted something pretty, and actually viewed the lots, I don't think there were all that many to choose from and they ended up bidding on the same few lots. >>



Intriguing observation, I think you are spot on >>

tradedollarnut

If you are talking about the dollar, yes there are ticks and lines. As I have said before, the coin most overgraded by collectors is one with clean surfaces but impaired luster. The one most undergraded has original mint bloom but contact marks. The first starts at MS64 and goes down, the second at MS70.

Sonorandesertrat

" As I have said before, the coin most overgraded by collectors is one with clean surfaces but impaired luster."

Very true, and this is frequently a difficult lesson for beginning/intermediate collectors to learn. Want to know why luster is important? Just walk by a case full of MS coins and quickly glance at them. Ones with booming luster will jump out at you in seconds.

Wabbit2313

<< <i>If you are talking about the dollar, yes there are ticks and lines. As I have said before, the coin most overgraded by collectors is one with clean surfaces but impaired luster. The one most undergraded has original mint bloom but contact marks. The first starts at MS64 and goes down, the second at MS70. >>



This is an interesting point. I often wonder if the graders feel the same?

BillJones

I kicked a few tires at the Newman sale on-line, but I came to the conclusion that for a collector like me, who does not collect the finest known examples, that the bids were going to be well beyond my view of rational pricing.

As for the coin that started this string, I like the looks of the piece that sold for $223 more than the Newman specimen that sold for $1880. It reminds me of the Garrett sale many years ago when people bid $250 for a common date Peace dollar that was selling for $10 to $15 at the time. There were folks there who just wanted to go home with a souvenir from the event who didn't care if they were buried it.

coindeuce

<< <i>

<< <i>We paid an all time record price for a gem 1803 dollar. I am sure the priceguides will go up but how do you price something that didn't exist before? >>




One the once in a lifetime coins I can see raising the bar to the new price level. That makes sense.

I tried on a few coins too but on something that is common, sells often and was nothing special how can one justify paying 8-10x the current value? >>



There is no justification, except for limited examples such as TDN cited, for the irrational exuberance that 291fifth mentioned. Or one could call it a neurotic desire to have a tangible connection to the previous owner. That type of behavior has been evidenced many times prior in the coin market with signature sales of pedigreed (I hate that word, it should only be applied to show dogs and race horses) or provenanced collections. Your mileage may vary.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>We paid an all time record price for a gem 1803 dollar. I am sure the priceguides will go up but how do you price something that didn't exist before? >>




In this case it would be what the highest bidder was willing to pay. Is there likely someone else out there who was unaware of the sale and would pay even more?

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BAJJERFAN

<< <i> I am comfortable that my two purchases will prove to be a great acquisition. It is an honor to be one of 3 or 4 caretakers in the last 1150 years or thereabouts. Off they go to PCGS for crossing or near crossing >>



Will PCGS keep the pedigree or don't you care?

Zoins

<< <i>In general for common coins prices were definitely crazy high that is for certain.

And if anyone had the intention to buy to flip what are they thinking, here is a well publicized event with an entire collection being promoted by both HA and NGC and many other numismatic organizations along with some pieces having a great pedigree Col Green to be exact, kind of like the perfect storm where if any flipper was to try to flip later he/she would never have that perfect storm in which to showcase his flip. Irrational exuberance was at play here, and it caused a one time spike in prices again for the common pieces.

That being said there were some incredible rarities, incredible grades/condition census, incredible toning/eyeappeal, incredible pedigree of Col Green and with those great coins go for strong/moon money prices which appears to be the norm in numismatics. I personally went what I thought was nuclear on two examples both were checked out by a trusted ex-member mark Feld and both were rare and condition census and original and naturally toned and had eye appeal and were ex:Col Green and I don't intend to them and I wanted these two in a BAD way. I am comfortable that my two purchases will prove to be a great acquisition. It is an honor to be one of 3 or 4 caretakers in the last 1150 years or thereabouts. Off they go to PCGS for crossing or near crossing >>



The Col Green pedigree is pretty cool and it's great that Mark viewed those coins for you. Congrats!

DennisH

In the Morgan department I felt like I was watching the biggest mass self-burial I will ever witness.

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CoinRaritiesOnline

<< <i>Will PCGS keep the pedigree or don't you care? >>



Of course they will.

Zoins

I finally got around to looking up Colonel Green on Wikipedia and he has an interesting history. It turns out the Colonel is from his political position as "a Colonel on the staff of a Democratic Governor of Texas." I wonder if people can still get titles like that today.

Here's a photo of his house:

RYK

Nice crib. Reminds me of Downton Abbey.

I overpaid for the two dreck coins that I purchased.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>Will PCGS keep the pedigree or don't you care? >>



Of course they will. >>



Did they retain the [pedigree?] on every Battle Creek Morgan that was submitted for crossover?

CoinRaritiesOnline

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Will PCGS keep the pedigree or don't you care? >>



Of course they will. >>



Did they retain the [pedigree?] on every Battle Creek Morgan that was submitted for crossover? >>



If the coin is submitted in a Newman holder, or submitted raw with a no-doubt plate match, they'll cross the pedigree. Trust me, I do this for a living.

RYK

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Will PCGS keep the pedigree or don't you care? >>



Of course they will. >>



Did they retain the [pedigree?] on every Battle Creek Morgan that was submitted for crossover? >>



If the coin is submitted in a Newman holder, or submitted raw with a no-doubt plate match, they'll cross the pedigree. Trust me, I do this for a living. >>



That was my response on Friday to the 91 year old woman who was concerned about the technique of a procedure that I have literally done at least 3000 times.

magikbilly

Thanks for the link. Holy Smokes! He IS the son of Hetty Green! I kept wondering that. She is or was in the Guinness Book for something or other. Richest woman, or stingiest. I can't recall.


Eric

CoinRaritiesOnline

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Will PCGS keep the pedigree or don't you care? >>



Of course they will. >>



Did they retain the [pedigree?] on every Battle Creek Morgan that was submitted for crossover? >>



If the coin is submitted in a Newman holder, or submitted raw with a no-doubt plate match, they'll cross the pedigree. Trust me, I do this for a living. >>



That was my response on Friday to the 91 year old woman who was concerned about the technique of a procedure that I have literally done at least 3000 times. >>



I suppose I should add, for clarity, that they will not cross the pedigree IF YOU SPECIFICALLY ASK THEM NOT TO.

410a

Eric "the day they shook the plum tree" only mentions of Hetty Green and the Col. in a book outside of numismatics. ................I was in NYC invited to attend the Eliasberg sales. Fast forward.....this past week the Newman sale was mentioned by my local coin dealer, I replied; "Eliasberg" ..........Now, don't YOU ALL get your knees in a knot Eliasberg had some great coins FOR SALE at that time and some people got buried in them too. It is not to say that they were common or not it was though it seemed that "neurotic connection" .Which by the way we all have as coin collectors and numismatists. I am trying to put back together many of the sets I once owned, but being older and questionalbly wiser. I would not bid the Neuman sale. Why? because, I cannot afford the uber great coins and I can't afford to overpay for the common with Pedigree. How'd I do at the Elisaberg sale? I got into what I perceived abeit too late "a shilling" over the only pure white seated half in the entire collection for way too much and I own both auction catalogs in Plastic untouched with prices realized for $60 extra 1997 dollars. I must say NYC is great at the midtown central park area. Hotels are elegant. Augustus Saint Gauden's statue of Shermans victory march is cool and well, I'd do it all over again. Warm Regards, Mike

coinkat

My Newman catalog must have been lost in the mail...

Zoins

<< <i>Thanks for the link. Holy Smokes! He IS the son of Hetty Green! I kept wondering that. She is or was in the Guinness Book for something or other. Richest woman, or stingiest. I can't recall.


Eric >>



Her entry in Guinness was for "World's Greatest Miser" and I'm sure that approach helped Ned assemble his collection. Both entries for Ned and Hetty are worth reading IMO.

PonyExpress8

Spot on John with my feelings on this auction. No denying there were 40-50 great early US coins which were highlights, but the rest while mostly nice had no rarity or scarcity to them, except perhaps some occasional condition scarcity.
While it is a neat collection to come to market there was a lot of promotion and hype for it, even though the story of the collection is interesting and neat.
I get the feeling a few years down the line when the common date material comes back on the market the prices this weekend won't be realized for the consigner.
I'm sure I am in the minority but thats what I felt!

CoinJunkie

<< <i>

<< <i>If you are talking about the dollar, yes there are ticks and lines. As I have said before, the coin most overgraded by collectors is one with clean surfaces but impaired luster. The one most undergraded has original mint bloom but contact marks. The first starts at MS64 and goes down, the second at MS70. >>



This is an interesting point. I often wonder if the graders feel the same? >>


Yes, especially at PCGS.

magikbilly

Thanks people re Hetty. I just remember reading the Guinness book as a kid and seeing a rather unflattering old photo of a pretty wicked looking woman crossing a street or some such. That is perhaps 35 years ago.

Eric


Unfortunately edited to change 25 to 35

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Type2

I think you pay if you want to play and some will say sit over there and watch how they do it. The Sky is the limit, Some one some day will pay more it's life and a 100+ years ago it was a $1 or a Dime or a Cent, It's funny when i tell some that i sell money and make a profit. But that is just me dumb Type2 thinking.

bidask

<< <i>I definitely overpaid and am loving it......I now own 2 coins that have been traced back approx. 100 years to a great collector, they are condition census rare examples with great eye appeal, when am I going to get another chance and would have regretted not winning them for years if I don't stretch the wallet.......so ridicule me, go ahead I dare yah >>

So what did you buy from the Newman auction?

mozin

I think most Newman winners overpaid, especially those winning the very high end coins. Once we see the results of the crossover attempts to PCGS, the value of the Newman pedigree might not be worth as much as it was worth last week. I am one that is not willing to pay very much for any pedigree.

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keyman64

I overpaid for BOTH of the widgets I bought. I overpaid in the range of $100 each. Why? Because I am a big dummy. Plain and simple. I have wasted $200 on worse things for sure...like eating out too much in the period of one month. That's the way I look at it. Both coins are problem free and seem just fine for the grades assigned. They are both blessed by CAC. When I sell the coins in 20-30 years, we will see if how much enjoyment/entertainment that the extra $200 brought me....and see if I get any of it back. If I don't, who cares.

Buy the coin first. The pedigree, holder and stickers are all secondary. For the most part, I'd like to think I listen to myself.

BAJJERFAN

I underbid and therefore did not overpay.

scoobydeux

<< <i>I think most Newman winners overpaid, especially those winning the very high end coins. Once we see the results of the crossover attempts to PCGS, the value of the Newman pedigree might not be worth as much as it was worth last week. I am one that is not willing to pay very much for any pedigree. >>

CoinJunkie

<< <i>

<< <i>I think most Newman winners overpaid, especially those winning the very high end coins. Once we see the results of the crossover attempts to PCGS, the value of the Newman pedigree might not be worth as much as it was worth last week. I am one that is not willing to pay very much for any pedigree. >>




>>


Actually, I looked through the lots that Legend won. With a single exception, I think the price
paid was probably justifiable. Most of the common lots from the sale I've seen posted here
appear to have fetched huge premiums based on the label.

Zoins

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I think most Newman winners overpaid, especially those winning the very high end coins. Once we see the results of the crossover attempts to PCGS, the value of the Newman pedigree might not be worth as much as it was worth last week. I am one that is not willing to pay very much for any pedigree. >>




>>


Actually, I looked through the lots that Legend won. With a single exception, I think the price
paid was probably justifiable. Most of the common lots from the sale I've seen posted here
appear to have fetched huge premiums based on the label. >>



Additionally, it seems like most of the bidders that paid premiums for the pedigree met their objectives.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

<< <i>

<< <i> I am comfortable that my two purchases will prove to be a great acquisition. It is an honor to be one of 3 or 4 caretakers in the last 1150 years or thereabouts. Off they go to PCGS for crossing or near crossing >>



Will PCGS keep the pedigree or don't you care? >>



PCGS will surely keep the pedigree if you ask for it.

CoinJunkie

<< <i>Additionally, it seems like most of the bidders that paid premiums for the pedigree met their objectives. >>


True, I think the only sense in which "overpay" can sensibly be discussed is ROI down the line.
You can't really quantify the enjoyment factor.

291fifth

It appears that this sale is already getting a reputation for widely varying quality in regard to what was sold. I'd hate to be a buyer that paid a big premium just to have a coin from this sale.

Walkerfan

A lot of people overpaid IMO. People were sold by the hype of the pedigree. Me--I'd rather have an equal or better example for a fraction of the price.