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Newman sale - raising coin prices or did everyone just overpay?

Are prices going way up on coins or did people just bury themselves?

Compare this coin with this one from the Newman sale

Yes the coin is pretty but it's not rare.

The bids I figured were too insane to lose were most all the under bidder, 20 times someone either bid or cut bid some very insane bids I placed.
I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org

Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.

Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
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Comments

  • CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,680 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Are prices going way up on coins or did people just bury themselves?

    Compare this coin with this one from the Newman sale

    Yes the coin is pretty but it's not rare.

    The bids I figured were too insane to lose were most all the under bidder, 20 times someone either bid or cut bid some very insane bids I placed. >>



    If people were interested in buying a coin or two out of Newman, in the relatively affordable category, in a particular series, wanted something pretty, and actually viewed the lots, I don't think there were all that many to choose from and they ended up bidding on the same few lots.


  • << <i>

    << <i>Are prices going way up on coins or did people just bury themselves?

    Compare this coin with this one from the Newman sale

    Yes the coin is pretty but it's not rare.

    The bids I figured were too insane to lose were most all the under bidder, 20 times someone either bid or cut bid some very insane bids I placed. >>



    If people were interested in buying a coin or two out of Newman, in the relatively affordable category, in a particular series, wanted something pretty, and actually viewed the lots, I don't think there were all that many to choose from and they ended up bidding on the same few lots. >>



    Intriguing observation, I think you are spot on
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,590 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A good dose of irrational exuberance was evident.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • nagsnags Posts: 820 ✭✭✭✭
    I think a little of rising prices, and a larger amount of overpaying.

    One coin I bought was the one GSA dollar with the Newman pedigree. It is for my core collections so I wasn't really concerned with burying myself with that one, but I know I paid over three times market value for a very ordinary coin. I suspect, based on the results, that many others had similar purchases.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,192 ✭✭✭✭✭
    We paid an all time record price for a gem 1803 dollar. I am sure the priceguides will go up but how do you price something that didn't exist before?
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,507 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rising tide lifts all ships.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    if I understand everyone's impression of the sale and the coins, many were average and sold high with help from the Pedigree. it doesn't make sense that other same grade coins would be affected by that and I wonder if those who make the price changes will be influenced. just from the discussion it would seem that the most benefit from the collection will go to NGC at least initially.
  • seateddimeseateddime Posts: 6,180 ✭✭✭


    << <i>We paid an all time record price for a gem 1803 dollar. I am sure the priceguides will go up but how do you price something that didn't exist before? >>




    One the once in a lifetime coins I can see raising the bar to the new price level. That makes sense.

    I tried on a few coins too but on something that is common, sells often and was nothing special how can one justify paying 8-10x the current value?

    Prices for this sale for non cac and common coins was insane. I will I could have been selling in that sale.
    I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org

    Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.

    Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think prices go up in gem ms bust and seated

    Everything else stays the same

    There could even be an argument we are at the top for most
    other US coins .....
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • Are those scratches in the obv. field on the Newman coin. They look like it to me and this coin was put in a problem free holder and was CAC'd.
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,550 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Are prices going way up on coins or did people just bury themselves?

    Compare this coin with this one from the Newman sale

    Yes the coin is pretty but it's not rare.

    The bids I figured were too insane to lose were most all the under bidder, 20 times someone either bid or cut bid some very insane bids I placed. >>



    If people were interested in buying a coin or two out of Newman, in the relatively affordable category, in a particular series, wanted something pretty, and actually viewed the lots, I don't think there were all that many to choose from and they ended up bidding on the same few lots. >>



    Intriguing observation, I think you are spot on >>


    image
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,192 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you are talking about the dollar, yes there are ticks and lines. As I have said before, the coin most overgraded by collectors is one with clean surfaces but impaired luster. The one most undergraded has original mint bloom but contact marks. The first starts at MS64 and goes down, the second at MS70.
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    " As I have said before, the coin most overgraded by collectors is one with clean surfaces but impaired luster."

    Very true, and this is frequently a difficult lesson for beginning/intermediate collectors to learn. Want to know why luster is important? Just walk by a case full of MS coins and quickly glance at them. Ones with booming luster will jump out at you in seconds.
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If you are talking about the dollar, yes there are ticks and lines. As I have said before, the coin most overgraded by collectors is one with clean surfaces but impaired luster. The one most undergraded has original mint bloom but contact marks. The first starts at MS64 and goes down, the second at MS70. >>



    This is an interesting point. I often wonder if the graders feel the same?
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I kicked a few tires at the Newman sale on-line, but I came to the conclusion that for a collector like me, who does not collect the finest known examples, that the bids were going to be well beyond my view of rational pricing.

    As for the coin that started this string, I like the looks of the piece that sold for $223 more than the Newman specimen that sold for $1880. It reminds me of the Garrett sale many years ago when people bid $250 for a common date Peace dollar that was selling for $10 to $15 at the time. There were folks there who just wanted to go home with a souvenir from the event who didn't care if they were buried it.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>We paid an all time record price for a gem 1803 dollar. I am sure the priceguides will go up but how do you price something that didn't exist before? >>




    One the once in a lifetime coins I can see raising the bar to the new price level. That makes sense.

    I tried on a few coins too but on something that is common, sells often and was nothing special how can one justify paying 8-10x the current value? >>



    There is no justification, except for limited examples such as TDN cited, for the irrational exuberance that 291fifth mentioned. Or one could call it a neurotic desire to have a tangible connection to the previous owner. That type of behavior has been evidenced many times prior in the coin market with signature sales of pedigreed (I hate that word, it should only be applied to show dogs and race horses) or provenanced collections. Your mileage may vary. image

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,225 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>We paid an all time record price for a gem 1803 dollar. I am sure the priceguides will go up but how do you price something that didn't exist before? >>




    In this case it would be what the highest bidder was willing to pay. Is there likely someone else out there who was unaware of the sale and would pay even more?
    theknowitalltroll;
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  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,225 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> I am comfortable that my two purchases will prove to be a great acquisition. It is an honor to be one of 3 or 4 caretakers in the last 1150 years or thereabouts. Off they go to PCGS for crossing or near crossingimage >>



    Will PCGS keep the pedigree or don't you care?
    theknowitalltroll;
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>In general for common coins prices were definitely crazy high that is for certain.

    And if anyone had the intention to buy to flip what are they thinking, here is a well publicized event with an entire collection being promoted by both HA and NGC and many other numismatic organizations along with some pieces having a great pedigree Col Green to be exact, kind of like the perfect storm where if any flipper was to try to flip later he/she would never have that perfect storm in which to showcase his flip. Irrational exuberance was at play here, and it caused a one time spike in prices again for the common pieces.

    That being said there were some incredible rarities, incredible grades/condition census, incredible toning/eyeappeal, incredible pedigree of Col Green and with those great coins go for strong/moon money prices which appears to be the norm in numismatics. I personally went what I thought was nuclear on two examples both were checked out by a trusted ex-member mark Feld and both were rare and condition census and original and naturally toned and had eye appeal and were ex:Col Green and I don't intend to them and I wanted these two in a BAD way. I am comfortable that my two purchases will prove to be a great acquisition. It is an honor to be one of 3 or 4 caretakers in the last 1150 years or thereabouts. Off they go to PCGS for crossing or near crossingimage >>



    The Col Green pedigree is pretty cool and it's great that Mark viewed those coins for you. Congrats! image
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 14,010 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In the Morgan department I felt like I was watching the biggest mass self-burial I will ever witness.
    When in doubt, don't.
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  • CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,680 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Will PCGS keep the pedigree or don't you care? >>



    Of course they will.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I finally got around to looking up Colonel Green on Wikipedia and he has an interesting history. It turns out the Colonel is from his political position as "a Colonel on the staff of a Democratic Governor of Texas." I wonder if people can still get titles like that today.

    Here's a photo of his house:

    image
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice crib. Reminds me of Downton Abbey.

    I overpaid for the two dreck coins that I purchased.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,225 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Will PCGS keep the pedigree or don't you care? >>



    Of course they will. >>



    Did they retain the [pedigree?] on every Battle Creek Morgan that was submitted for crossover?
    theknowitalltroll;
  • CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,680 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Will PCGS keep the pedigree or don't you care? >>



    Of course they will. >>



    Did they retain the [pedigree?] on every Battle Creek Morgan that was submitted for crossover? >>



    If the coin is submitted in a Newman holder, or submitted raw with a no-doubt plate match, they'll cross the pedigree. Trust me, I do this for a living.

  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Will PCGS keep the pedigree or don't you care? >>



    Of course they will. >>



    Did they retain the [pedigree?] on every Battle Creek Morgan that was submitted for crossover? >>



    If the coin is submitted in a Newman holder, or submitted raw with a no-doubt plate match, they'll cross the pedigree. Trust me, I do this for a living. >>



    That was my response on Friday to the 91 year old woman who was concerned about the technique of a procedure that I have literally done at least 3000 times. image
  • Thanks for the link. Holy Smokes! He IS the son of Hetty Green! I kept wondering that. She is or was in the Guinness Book for something or other. Richest woman, or stingiest. I can't recall.


    Eric
  • CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,680 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Will PCGS keep the pedigree or don't you care? >>



    Of course they will. >>



    Did they retain the [pedigree?] on every Battle Creek Morgan that was submitted for crossover? >>



    If the coin is submitted in a Newman holder, or submitted raw with a no-doubt plate match, they'll cross the pedigree. Trust me, I do this for a living. >>



    That was my response on Friday to the 91 year old woman who was concerned about the technique of a procedure that I have literally done at least 3000 times. image >>



    I suppose I should add, for clarity, that they will not cross the pedigree IF YOU SPECIFICALLY ASK THEM NOT TO.
  • 410a410a Posts: 1,325
    Eric "the day they shook the plum tree" only mentions of Hetty Green and the Col. in a book outside of numismatics. ................I was in NYC invited to attend the Eliasberg sales. Fast forward.....this past week the Newman sale was mentioned by my local coin dealer, I replied; "Eliasberg" ..........Now, don't YOU ALL get your knees in a knot Eliasberg had some great coins FOR SALE at that time and some people got buried in them too. It is not to say that they were common or not it was though it seemed that "neurotic connection" .Which by the way we all have as coin collectors and numismatists. I am trying to put back together many of the sets I once owned, but being older and questionalbly wiser. I would not bid the Neuman sale. Why? because, I cannot afford the uber great coins and I can't afford to overpay for the common with Pedigree. How'd I do at the Elisaberg sale? I got into what I perceived abeit too late "a shilling" over the only pure white seated half in the entire collection for way too much and I own both auction catalogs in Plastic untouched with prices realized for $60 extra 1997 dollars. I must say NYC is great at the midtown central park area. Hotels are elegant. Augustus Saint Gauden's statue of Shermans victory march is cool and well, I'd do it all over again. Warm Regards, Mike
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My Newman catalog must have been lost in the mail...

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Thanks for the link. Holy Smokes! He IS the son of Hetty Green! I kept wondering that. She is or was in the Guinness Book for something or other. Richest woman, or stingiest. I can't recall.


    Eric >>



    Her entry in Guinness was for "World's Greatest Miser" and I'm sure that approach helped Ned assemble his collection. Both entries for Ned and Hetty are worth reading IMO.
  • PonyExpress8PonyExpress8 Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭
    Spot on John with my feelings on this auction. No denying there were 40-50 great early US coins which were highlights, but the rest while mostly nice had no rarity or scarcity to them, except perhaps some occasional condition scarcity.
    While it is a neat collection to come to market there was a lot of promotion and hype for it, even though the story of the collection is interesting and neat.
    I get the feeling a few years down the line when the common date material comes back on the market the prices this weekend won't be realized for the consigner.
    I'm sure I am in the minority but thats what I felt! image
    The End of the Line in the West.

    Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>If you are talking about the dollar, yes there are ticks and lines. As I have said before, the coin most overgraded by collectors is one with clean surfaces but impaired luster. The one most undergraded has original mint bloom but contact marks. The first starts at MS64 and goes down, the second at MS70. >>



    This is an interesting point. I often wonder if the graders feel the same? >>


    Yes, especially at PCGS.
  • Thanks people re Hetty. I just remember reading the Guinness book as a kid and seeing a rather unflattering old photo of a pretty wicked looking woman crossing a street or some such. That is perhaps 35 years ago. image

    Eric


    Unfortunately edited to change 25 to 35 image
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  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think you pay if you want to play and some will say sit over there and watch how they do it. The Sky is the limit, Some one some day will pay more it's life and a 100+ years ago it was a $1 or a Dime or a Cent, It's funny when i tell some that i sell money and make a profit. But that is just me dumb Type2 thinking. image


    Hoard the keys.
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I definitely overpaid and am loving it......I now own 2 coins that have been traced back approx. 100 years to a great collector, they are condition census rare examples with great eye appeal, when am I going to get another chance and would have regretted not winning them for years if I don't stretch the wallet.......so ridicule me, go ahead I dare yah image >>

    So what did you buy from the Newman auction?
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    I think most Newman winners overpaid, especially those winning the very high end coins. Once we see the results of the crossover attempts to PCGS, the value of the Newman pedigree might not be worth as much as it was worth last week. I am one that is not willing to pay very much for any pedigree.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
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  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,521 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I overpaid for BOTH of the widgets I bought. I overpaid in the range of $100 each. Why? Because I am a big dummy. Plain and simple. I have wasted $200 on worse things for sure...like eating out too much in the period of one month. That's the way I look at it. Both coins are problem free and seem just fine for the grades assigned. They are both blessed by CAC. When I sell the coins in 20-30 years, we will see if how much enjoyment/entertainment that the extra $200 brought me....and see if I get any of it back. If I don't, who cares. image

    Buy the coin first. The pedigree, holder and stickers are all secondary. For the most part, I'd like to think I listen to myself. image
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,225 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I underbid and therefore did not overpay.
    theknowitalltroll;


  • << <i>I think most Newman winners overpaid, especially those winning the very high end coins. Once we see the results of the crossover attempts to PCGS, the value of the Newman pedigree might not be worth as much as it was worth last week. I am one that is not willing to pay very much for any pedigree. >>




    imageimage
    "Discipline is never an end in itself, only a means to an end."
  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I think most Newman winners overpaid, especially those winning the very high end coins. Once we see the results of the crossover attempts to PCGS, the value of the Newman pedigree might not be worth as much as it was worth last week. I am one that is not willing to pay very much for any pedigree. >>




    imageimage >>


    Actually, I looked through the lots that Legend won. With a single exception, I think the price
    paid was probably justifiable. Most of the common lots from the sale I've seen posted here
    appear to have fetched huge premiums based on the label.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I think most Newman winners overpaid, especially those winning the very high end coins. Once we see the results of the crossover attempts to PCGS, the value of the Newman pedigree might not be worth as much as it was worth last week. I am one that is not willing to pay very much for any pedigree. >>




    imageimage >>


    Actually, I looked through the lots that Legend won. With a single exception, I think the price
    paid was probably justifiable. Most of the common lots from the sale I've seen posted here
    appear to have fetched huge premiums based on the label. >>



    Additionally, it seems like most of the bidders that paid premiums for the pedigree met their objectives.


  • << <i>

    << <i> I am comfortable that my two purchases will prove to be a great acquisition. It is an honor to be one of 3 or 4 caretakers in the last 1150 years or thereabouts. Off they go to PCGS for crossing or near crossingimage >>



    Will PCGS keep the pedigree or don't you care? >>



    PCGS will surely keep the pedigree if you ask for it.
  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Additionally, it seems like most of the bidders that paid premiums for the pedigree met their objectives. >>


    True, I think the only sense in which "overpay" can sensibly be discussed is ROI down the line.
    You can't really quantify the enjoyment factor.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,590 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It appears that this sale is already getting a reputation for widely varying quality in regard to what was sold. I'd hate to be a buyer that paid a big premium just to have a coin from this sale.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,662 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A lot of people overpaid IMO. People were sold by the hype of the pedigree. Me--I'd rather have an equal or better example for a fraction of the price.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

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