<< <i>I kicked a few tires at the Newman sale on-line, but I came to the conclusion that for a collector like me, who does not collect the finest known examples, that the bids were going to be well beyond my view of rational pricing.
As for the coin that started this string, I like the looks of the piece that sold for $223 more than the Newman specimen that sold for $1880. It reminds me of the Garrett sale many years ago when people bid $250 for a common date Peace dollar that was selling for $10 to $15 at the time. There were folks there who just wanted to go home with a souvenir from the event who didn't care if they were buried it. >>
Thanks Bill, I own that coin and was happy to pay $1657 less. I think these folks are getting buried, even though the Newman coins have lots of meaty originality. Still try to sell that 53-O and break even. Here is my image of the lesser 53-O. I mostly lurk here, one of my first posts, some of you may know me as 'HT' ATS.
If it were dealers that paid the multiples, over time, those loses can be spread out over many other dealers when they don't have a buyer. But eventually, a buyer will see the coin for far less than what it sold for and buy it with the idea that he got a great deal. And the seller will profit as well, 10 dealers later.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
<< <i>I overpaid for BOTH of the widgets I bought. I overpaid in the range of $100 each. Why? Because I am a big dummy. Plain and simple. I have wasted $200 on worse things for sure...like eating out too much in the period of one month. That's the way I look at it. Both coins are problem free and seem just fine for the grades assigned. They are both blessed by CAC. When I sell the coins in 20-30 years, we will see if how much enjoyment/entertainment that the extra $200 brought me....and see if I get any of it back. If I don't, who cares.
Buy the coin first. The pedigree, holder and stickers are all secondary. For the most part, I'd like to think I listen to myself. >>
I used to wait for the right price all the time and not overpay--however some coins you just cannot get without overpaying. I used to think that I overpaid for everything I bought until 10 years later, when I look back at what I paid, with today's prices, I think that I underpaid for a lot of them.
There is one thing that you have to remember-Even if you overpay, at very least, you now own it and don't have to search for another. You have it- done deal. It is yours.
if the buyers are happy about obtaining their purchases, even if overpriced, hey enjoy em. I did not bid on anything in this sale, but I can assure you Ive stretched more than once to get the opp to purchase something that doesn't come around often.
I'm seeing three types of Newman coins, from an investment/collector perspective.
There are coins that don't appear more than once a decade or so, at most -- or longer.
Coins that appear with some regularity, but in many cases, not as nice of the Newman examples;
and a great many coins which fall below the norm for examples available elsewhere at better values.
One can easily overpay for the third category. Those who desired to have a Newman, and or Newman/Green example will pay that extra fee for admission to this rarified club.
The middle category is a bit of a minefield, in which collectors can easily get buried.
The first category, while needing a knowledgeable eye or great representation, and a cool temperament, has real value, as the coins cannot be reproduced. While many of these coins may seem expensive, and I purchased several, I don't see them as coins for which I "overpaid."
<< <i>I'm seeing three types of Newman coins, from an investment/collector perspective.
There are coins that don't appear more than once a decade or so, at most -- or longer.
Coins that appear with some regularity, but in many cases, not as nice of the Newman examples;
and a great many coins which fall below the norm for examples available elsewhere at better values.
One can easily overpay for the third category. Those who desired to have a Newman, and or Newman/Green example will pay that extra fee for admission to this rarified club.
The middle category is a bit of a minefield, in which collectors can easily get buried.
The first category, while needing a knowledgeable eye or great representation, and a cool temperament, has real value, as the coins cannot be reproduced. While many of these coins may seem expensive, and I purchased several, I don't see them as coins for which I "overpaid."
The value is all there. And then some.
EC >>
Yup. $705k for an 1803 dollar is expensive...but true gem early dollars are rarer than hen's teeth
I believe it is neither of the options the OP laid out and is a third category the OP simply didn't think of. That is, the coin market is as it was one month earlier. People are not buried in these Newman coins. It's the pedigree that is simply worth a large premium in some cases. Provenance matters.
I have existed since the creation of this world and will exist until its end. Only my form will change. For these 80 human life years, I have the benefit of having a functioning body and consciousness. I will not waste this opportunity.
Once again, I am called on to explain that there is no logical way to EVER overpay for anything. By definition, an item is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay at that point in time.
Can one pay more than what a similar item would cost elsewhere? Sure. Doesn't mean, however, that the item he purchased wasn't worth what he paid TO HIM and his opinion as to its value is the only one that matters.
Can on pay more than what he could (in any reasonable time frame) later sell it for? Again, sure. Still doesn't mean, however, that the item he purchased wasn't worth what he paid TO HIM and again his opinion as to its value is the only one that matters.
The fact that paying more than any so-called market price may not be a wise financial decision in no way means one overpaid for the item. One can never buy any auction item--regardless of price--without paying more than it was worth to anyone else present.
Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
<< <i>Once again, I am called on to explain that there is no logical way to EVER overpay for anything. By definition, an item is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay at that point in time.
Can one pay more than what a similar item would cost elsewhere? Sure. Doesn't mean, however, that the item he purchased wasn't worth what he paid TO HIM and his opinion as to its value is the only one that matters.
Can on pay more than what he could (in any reasonable time frame) later sell it for? Again, sure. Still doesn't mean, however, that the item he purchased wasn't worth what he paid TO HIM and again his opinion as to its value is the only one that matters.
The fact that paying more than any so-called market price may not be a wise financial decision in no way means one overpaid for the item. One can never buy any auction item--regardless of price--without paying more than it was worth to anyone else present. >>
Welllll - how about the time I failed to communicate to my auction rep my max on a certain coin and I ended up with it at double what I thought it worth? Logically, it was indeed an overpay....
Welllll - how about the time I failed to communicate to my auction rep my max on a certain coin and I ended up with it at double what I thought it worth? Logically, it was indeed an overpay.... >>
Unless your orders to your agent were simply "Buy the coin." then it was a case of your agent merely valuing the coin more than you did. You still only paid the amount that it was worth to someone--in this case your representative. (Unless, of course, your agent was pumping his own commission. In this case, however, I would be more inclined to say you were cheated rather than you overpaid.)
But, since it was your money involved, yes, I can see where you might feel that you overpaid under the circumstances. Point scored.
Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
<< <i>I'm seeing three types of Newman coins, from an investment/collector perspective.
There are coins that don't appear more than once a decade or so, at most -- or longer.
Coins that appear with some regularity, but in many cases, not as nice of the Newman examples;
and a great many coins which fall below the norm for examples available elsewhere at better values.
One can easily overpay for the third category. Those who desired to have a Newman, and or Newman/Green example will pay that extra fee for admission to this rarified club.
The middle category is a bit of a minefield, in which collectors can easily get buried.
The first category, while needing a knowledgeable eye or great representation, and a cool temperament, has real value, as the coins cannot be reproduced. While many of these coins may seem expensive, and I purchased several, I don't see them as coins for which I "overpaid."
The value is all there. And then some.
EC >>
This is spot on analysis, add in these coins were not in market preferred plastic the overpaying can be exacerbated in the cases were comparables' are readily available when the market gets a chance to "market grade" them via retail pricing.
At that point auction fever will not be able to overcome market preference and dealer bid demands. This as the OP said will affect the last group of less than seller mostly 19th Cen circulated coins esp hard. I would pay to be a fly on the wall at the PCGS grading room over the next month or two.
Comments
If there are 400 coins in the grade, it's possible to "overpay."
If there are 4, and none available for a decade or more...
EC
<< <i>I kicked a few tires at the Newman sale on-line, but I came to the conclusion that for a collector like me, who does not collect the finest known examples, that the bids were going to be well beyond my view of rational pricing.
As for the coin that started this string, I like the looks of the piece that sold for $223 more than the Newman specimen that sold for $1880. It reminds me of the Garrett sale many years ago when people bid $250 for a common date Peace dollar that was selling for $10 to $15 at the time. There were folks there who just wanted to go home with a souvenir from the event who didn't care if they were buried it. >>
Thanks Bill, I own that coin and was happy to pay $1657 less. I think these folks are getting buried, even though the Newman coins have lots of meaty originality. Still try to sell that 53-O and break even. Here is my image of the lesser 53-O. I mostly lurk here, one of my first posts, some of you may know me as 'HT' ATS.
Best, SH
The Quarters were simply unreal as were the prices.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
Apparently my few pennies mean more to me than million$ mean to the rich. Must be a nice place to be.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>I overpaid for BOTH of the widgets I bought. I overpaid in the range of $100 each. Why? Because I am a big dummy. Plain and simple. I have wasted $200 on worse things for sure...like eating out too much in the period of one month. That's the way I look at it. Both coins are problem free and seem just fine for the grades assigned. They are both blessed by CAC. When I sell the coins in 20-30 years, we will see if how much enjoyment/entertainment that the extra $200 brought me....and see if I get any of it back. If I don't, who cares.
Buy the coin first. The pedigree, holder and stickers are all secondary. For the most part, I'd like to think I listen to myself.
I used to wait for the right price all the time and not overpay--however some coins you just cannot get without overpaying. I used to think that I overpaid for everything I bought until 10 years later, when I look back at what I paid, with today's prices, I think that I underpaid for a lot of them.
There is one thing that you have to remember-Even if you overpay, at very least, you now own it and don't have to search for another. You have it- done deal. It is yours.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
There are coins that don't appear more than once a decade or so, at most -- or longer.
Coins that appear with some regularity, but in many cases, not as nice of the Newman examples;
and a great many coins which fall below the norm for examples available elsewhere at better values.
One can easily overpay for the third category. Those who desired to have a Newman, and or Newman/Green example will pay that extra fee
for admission to this rarified club.
The middle category is a bit of a minefield, in which collectors can easily get buried.
The first category, while needing a knowledgeable eye or great representation, and a cool temperament, has real value, as the coins cannot be reproduced.
While many of these coins may seem expensive, and I purchased several, I don't see them as coins for which I "overpaid."
The value is all there. And then some.
EC
<< <i>I'm seeing three types of Newman coins, from an investment/collector perspective.
There are coins that don't appear more than once a decade or so, at most -- or longer.
Coins that appear with some regularity, but in many cases, not as nice of the Newman examples;
and a great many coins which fall below the norm for examples available elsewhere at better values.
One can easily overpay for the third category. Those who desired to have a Newman, and or Newman/Green example will pay that extra fee
for admission to this rarified club.
The middle category is a bit of a minefield, in which collectors can easily get buried.
The first category, while needing a knowledgeable eye or great representation, and a cool temperament, has real value, as the coins cannot be reproduced.
While many of these coins may seem expensive, and I purchased several, I don't see them as coins for which I "overpaid."
The value is all there. And then some.
EC >>
Yup. $705k for an 1803 dollar is expensive...but true gem early dollars are rarer than hen's teeth
Can one pay more than what a similar item would cost elsewhere? Sure. Doesn't mean, however, that the item he purchased wasn't worth what he paid TO HIM and his opinion as to its value is the only one that matters.
Can on pay more than what he could (in any reasonable time frame) later sell it for? Again, sure. Still doesn't mean, however, that the item he purchased wasn't worth what he paid TO HIM and again his opinion as to its value is the only one that matters.
The fact that paying more than any so-called market price may not be a wise financial decision in no way means one overpaid for the item. One can never buy any auction item--regardless of price--without paying more than it was worth to anyone else present.
<< <i>Once again, I am called on to explain that there is no logical way to EVER overpay for anything. By definition, an item is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay at that point in time.
Can one pay more than what a similar item would cost elsewhere? Sure. Doesn't mean, however, that the item he purchased wasn't worth what he paid TO HIM and his opinion as to its value is the only one that matters.
Can on pay more than what he could (in any reasonable time frame) later sell it for? Again, sure. Still doesn't mean, however, that the item he purchased wasn't worth what he paid TO HIM and again his opinion as to its value is the only one that matters.
The fact that paying more than any so-called market price may not be a wise financial decision in no way means one overpaid for the item. One can never buy any auction item--regardless of price--without paying more than it was worth to anyone else present. >>
Welllll - how about the time I failed to communicate to my auction rep my max on a certain coin and I ended up with it at double what I thought it worth? Logically, it was indeed an overpay....
<< <i>
Welllll - how about the time I failed to communicate to my auction rep my max on a certain coin and I ended up with it at double what I thought it worth? Logically, it was indeed an overpay.... >>
Unless your orders to your agent were simply "Buy the coin." then it was a case of your agent merely valuing the coin more than you did. You still only paid the amount that it was worth to someone--in this case your representative. (Unless, of course, your agent was pumping his own commission. In this case, however, I would be more inclined to say you were cheated rather than you overpaid.)
But, since it was your money involved, yes, I can see where you might feel that you overpaid under the circumstances. Point scored.
<< <i>I'm seeing three types of Newman coins, from an investment/collector perspective.
There are coins that don't appear more than once a decade or so, at most -- or longer.
Coins that appear with some regularity, but in many cases, not as nice of the Newman examples;
and a great many coins which fall below the norm for examples available elsewhere at better values.
One can easily overpay for the third category. Those who desired to have a Newman, and or Newman/Green example will pay that extra fee
for admission to this rarified club.
The middle category is a bit of a minefield, in which collectors can easily get buried.
The first category, while needing a knowledgeable eye or great representation, and a cool temperament, has real value, as the coins cannot be reproduced.
While many of these coins may seem expensive, and I purchased several, I don't see them as coins for which I "overpaid."
The value is all there. And then some.
EC >>
This is spot on analysis, add in these coins were not in market preferred plastic the overpaying can be exacerbated in the cases were comparables' are readily available when the market gets a chance to "market grade" them via retail pricing.
At that point auction fever will not be able to overcome market preference and dealer bid demands. This as the OP said will affect the last group of less than seller mostly 19th Cen circulated coins esp hard. I would pay to be a fly on the wall at the PCGS grading room over the next month or two.