Buying Bright White vs Naturally Toned Coins

CollectorAtWork

I'm a new collector, so please bear with me. I just started collecting, and I would like to build a type set with good eye appeal. I've been trying to hold off purchase coins as much as possible while trying to learn as much about the hobby as possible although it has been difficult because I've had an itchy trigger finger to buy stuff. In general, I prefer "bright white" coins because they just look newer and better. However, I just read in this article (Link) that many if not most classic coins that are bright white have been dipped, and that the TPG's such as PCGS and NGC do not consider dipped coins as cleaned. Therefore, should I avoid buying "bright white" coins because they will naturally tone and darken anyway in just a few years? Or is there a way to keep coins (in holders) bright white longer such as keeping them out of the light? If there is no way to avoid coins losing their "bright white" texture, would it be better to just buy coins that have a very nice looking naturally toning since you can't be assured that your bright white coins will tone nicely? Or will even nice looking naturally toned coins today change to a different toning in the future that might not look so good? Sorry for all of the basic questions. I've only purchased one coin so far a 1922 Peace dollar graded PCGS MS-64, which is bright white, and I purchased for $60 from ebay, which I'm pretty happy with. So, if I need to change my direction a little, I don't have too much invested anyway.

Type2

Well some like White some like crusty most new collectors like white. I did when i started, Most will say buy what you like. I will say buy all natural that said all coins will tone you just dont know when or how fast and some collectors will pay more for it. Some will say they dont like it so that is up to you it's your $$$. Now i look for the coins that look like you just pulled them out of the dirt but it is called crust and becuse of it i get some good prices but some times i do buy nice white coins but they need to have that look you will see it after you collector for a bit, Ya i can dip them but it took a long time to get them to look like that and will take a long time to do it all over so if it is tone and they look good i'll leve it, If it is white it will get toned some day so i'll let it do it's thing. But that is just me thinking~ Type2.

bolivarshagnasty

I can't express in words how important it is that you learn from these boards and hold off buying coins. Do a search on the thread topic and come to your own conclusion. A year from now, your dollars will have more buying power because of the knowledge you've gained.

keets

I've brought a thread to the top of page one with "10 suggestions for a new collector which might help you.

lcoopie

Broadstruck

Although you can learn quite a bit on the web and forums you need to get out there to see coins in hand to really learn more about surface conditions, as even the uber dipped coins can be found in third party holders. Once you've gained an understanding from having seen them in person then in time you'll be able to judge coins a bit better based on images. Do a web search for all the local smaller shows in your area and try to attend as many as possible. Don't be afraid to ask to see MS67 Peace $1's just because they might be out of your budget range. These are usually the coins you can gain the most from as to original unmolested surfaces and then trickle down your new gained knowledge to examples in grades you can afford. Be straight forward with the dealers letting them know that your trying to learn, as if they aren't busy many dealers will take the time to try to show and teach you things. Bring a small notebook with you as you might be overwhelmed at even a small venue and you'll have have your notes to refer to later. Once your ready to buy after getting your feet really wet, just bring one blank check and not your checkbook to control the urges. Remember the fun of the hobby is learning and not really so much about needing to own these shiny things. So start small as with the $60 purchase you've already made prior to going hog wild. Well all make mistakes no matter how long we've been in this hobby. That being said your going to make quite a few in the beginning and you want them to be on a smaller scale.

AMRC

My advice is that you learn to detect original surfaces. I really do not care if a coin is white or a little toned, or very toned. What I care about is originality and eye appeal. Are there blast white coins that have original skins? Yes, but they are not proportionally represented by what you see in dealer cases which in fact contain many coins that have been dipped. The probability of a coin not growing some patina after a hundred years or so is very low considering storage methods used in the past. Unfortunately, a majority of collector prefer their coins white, and since the grading companies accept some dipping, the market fills the demand. But a discriminating collector should only care about the skin on the coin and eye appeal. This is a big factor for CAC. What all may not realize is that to get a CAC designation a coin but be in the top 2/3's of the grade AND have original surfaces devoid of PVC or other contaminants. When you see that 2/3's of coins DO NOT come back with CAC stickers you have to ask why? (Here is where are the statistic guys will start to holler - but you get my point that it should be a number close to 2/3's after enough data points) Many coins sent to CAC pass the 2/3's test but fail the original surface test.

My suggestion is that you get yourself a good loop and go to the next large auction and look at each and every CAC stickered coin. Look at as may of them as you can, compare them to like and kind coins that are not stickered. After a few dozen examinations you will start to see what original means. Once you understand that, and you see a coin you like (white or toned) just look for original surfaces. After you understand that, trust what appeals to your eye.

Having said all of that, I expect in the coming years collectors will become more sophisticated around this concept and the demand for "Blast White" may diminish, but they are shiny pretty objects and with a steady supply of new collectors always coming into the hobby, and with collectors that are good at catching Blast White as original surfaces, the demand will never go away.

BillJones

The decision is really up to you. If you buy "original" toned coins because other collectors tell you that's what you should buy but dislike them, you won't enjoy the hobby. If you buy the "white" coins, which have been dipped and like them, that's what a hobby is all about.

Aside from Morgan dollars, which spent years in treasury vaults, most any bright white old silver coin has been dipped to look the way it does. The vast majority of old coins have had something done to them over time.

Many of the coins that some collectors think are original are really coins that have been dipped which have re-toned. Here are examples of Seated dimes. The 1838 No Drapery has been dipped white, and the 1837 No Stars was dipped and has re-toned. A lot of advanced old time collectors hate the 1838 and have told me so. But it is a Mint State coin and the price was right. The 1838 No Stars dime is an AU coin, and it has grown a little darker since I bought it over 20 years ago.

1838 No Drapery Dime, dipped



1837 No Stars Dime, "orginal now"



I have a complete type set. If you would like to look at it, here a link. Every coin is photographed with a write-up.

Bill Jones half cent through dollar type set

RedTiger

Suggestions to learn are all well and good, but the reality is that it takes several years of looking at live coins to learn enough to play the game of original surfaces. The blatant ones, yes, a person can learn in a few days, but the blatant ones tend not to be in top tier holders.

My suggestion is radical for this forum, and it is to seek average coins at average prices. Avoid playing the quality game, the toner game, the original surfaces game, the bargain game, the premium quality game. Find coins in the middle range at average prices and the odds of doing okay increase dramatically. A newbie trying to play one of the mentioned games against the old hands is usually going to get plucked. A little knowledge can be dangerous, if it makes a novice feel confident that they are playing in one of the mentioned games. As I said, it typically takes years to learn the more subtle points about grading, toning, original surfaces, and we are not even to authentication (which fewer than 5% of collectors have any reasonable skill at and many of those collectors have decades in the hobby).

ricko

Lots of good advice here, but the best is to "Collect what you like"....... yes, you will make some mistakes. Yes, your tastes will change. Yes, you will learn a lot over time. There is no hypodermic injection to make you instantly expert. So relax, ask questions, study, buy some coins.... it is a hobby, not a career (unless, in the future, you make it so). Cheers, RickO

TomB

You've had some great advice given to you. I would strongly suggest that you learn, have patience and collect what you find enjoyable to own predicated upon understanding to the best of your capabilities what you are buying. Enjoy!

CollectorAtWork

Really appreciate the responses, especially from the posters who had the patience to write long replies. Thanks for such good advice. Bill, I love your type set. It is simply gorgeous.

vibr0nic

Keep collecting knowledge first - you're on the right track there it seems.

Not all white coins have been dipped, and not all toned coins are original/undipped. Many magnificent collections contain great coins that were dipped in the past and retoned over time. Much discussion on the Newman collection has been about this very topic.

That being said, I find that toned coins possess an element of character and distinction that is harder to find on white coins (although there are certainly exceptional and distinctive "white" coins out there). I wouldn't impose my tastes on anyone, though - there is enough diversity out there to satisfy anyone.

JBN

Lots of great advice.

Collect what excites you - Coins that you look at again and again are the right coins for you.


I took a look at your Babe Ruth link. Extremely interesting - had no idea there were so many cards featuring him. My favorites were the 'National Caramel' and the 'Star Picture Stamps'. It was fun to look at your collection.

TireKicker

<< <i>I've brought a thread to the top of page one with "10 suggestions for a new collector which might help you. >>



Good Suggestions Keets

georgiacop50

There are plenty who like both white & toned , as long as we are satisfied as to eye-appeal and originality.

Luster is key. Luster is the most important aspect of grading. Unfortunately it takes a lot of study because different series will exhibit different types of luster. And different mints will exhibit characteristic "looks" as far as luster.

The luster on a 3 cent nickel is much different than, say, an 80-S Morgan. And both will be different than an S-mint Franklin.