First, I just want to make the point that not a single person's opinion on here matters one bit with regards to what people will/won't do with their own property. The fact, that so many people feel they have some authority to render a decision on what is right/wrong for someone to do with something they own is a joke. I may think it's poor form to buy/flip from a group break (I don't think that by the way), but at the end of the day what I think isn't even relevant. It is so self-indulgent to come on here taking some stand on what is right or wrong about someone selling cardboard that they own. And yes, I realize that I just gave my own thoughts, so I guess I suck too!!!
If someone thinks that selling cards you own is illegal, unethical, or immoral, I would love to hear why.
Finally, I think Steve Hart is a fantastic dude and represents everything that is right in our hobby. With that, anyone who thinks that Steve is supporting group breaks solely because he's a nice guy (which he happens to be) is incredibly naive. He does it because it is a great move for his business, for many reasons, most of which have already been mentioned. We owe Steve nothing but positive reviews after the transaction. Once you have bought a product from a group rip, you don't owe Steve or anyone else in the collecting community anything else.
Also, FWIW, Steve used to always give 10% to me as long as I spent $1,000 on that purchase. Or maybe it was $500. I can't remember as it was a few years ago. Thus the group rips are no different of a discount than he gives to any good customer. I can't imagine Steve really cares what one does with "his" boxes after they are sold. He made his money and the box would have to be re-sold for a lot more (thus raising over-all market value) for that person to make a profit. You people are too funny sometimes.
<< <i>Notice that alot of people post about BBCE "reputation", This guy steve sounds like a great person with great reputation. But do you know why some people do not buy from BBCE? an employees reputation is just as important as the owners. dont want to get deep into this. just do your research on people. Example. If you visit a LCS and the owner is a great person with great hobby ethics, but when the owner is not in the shop and his "employees" are searching packs and other questionable acts or even a bad reputation , do you really want to purchase from that shop? Does a persons Local reputation in the hobby carry weight about that person? Can a person with a bad reputation "FIX" his reputation over years (I HOPE SO)?
THIS HAS NOTHING to do with steve, he sounds like a great person.
Just something to think about. seriously. >>
This is the most ridiculous comment I have ever read.
<< <i>Notice that alot of people post about BBCE "reputation", This guy steve sounds like a great person with great reputation. But do you know why some people do not buy from BBCE? an employees reputation is just as important as the owners. dont want to get deep into this. just do your research on people. Example. If you visit a LCS and the owner is a great person with great hobby ethics, but when the owner is not in the shop and his "employees" are searching packs and other questionable acts or even a bad reputation , do you really want to purchase from that shop? Does a persons Local reputation in the hobby carry weight about that person? Can a person with a bad reputation "FIX" his reputation over years (I HOPE SO)?
THIS HAS NOTHING to do with steve, he sounds like a great person.
Just something to think about. seriously. >>
This is the most ridiculous comment I have ever read. >>
not according to alot of collectors in my state. 20+ years of history and reputation. if you only knew.
<< <i>Also, FWIW, Steve used to always give 10% to me as long as I spent $1,000 on that purchase. Or maybe it was $500. I can't remember as it was a few years ago. Thus the group rips are no different of a discount than he gives to any good customer. I can't imagine Steve really cares what one does with "his" boxes after they are sold. He made his money and the box would have to be re-sold for a lot more (thus raising over-all market value) for that person to make a profit. You people are too funny sometimes. >>
I inquired once about buying a large quantity of boxes at a discount and was also offered the same 10%, after asking. It was around $800 of modern wax boxes, all the same product.
<< <i>To participate in a group rip the only requirement is being a member here.
And if you purchase something from BBCE (regardless of whether it was through a group rip, direct from the BBCE website, on ebay or at a card show), it is now your property and you can do whatever you want with it. >>
Exactly.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>Ummm... if someone buys a box from the group rip, even at 10% off the already premium price, and tries to flip it on ebay, they will lose their @$$ after fees. Am I wrong? >>
My thoughts too. I simply deduct 20% of the total sale for eBay fees, PP fees. If I didn't charge shipping, I'd have to be a power seller to make money.
<< <i>Notice that alot of people post about BBCE "reputation", This guy steve sounds like a great person with great reputation. But do you know why some people do not buy from BBCE? an employees reputation is just as important as the owners. dont want to get deep into this. just do your research on people. Example. If you visit a LCS and the owner is a great person with great hobby ethics, but when the owner is not in the shop and his "employees" are searching packs and other questionable acts or even a bad reputation , do you really want to purchase from that shop? Does a persons Local reputation in the hobby carry weight about that person? Can a person with a bad reputation "FIX" his reputation over years (I HOPE SO)?
THIS HAS NOTHING to do with steve, he sounds like a great person.
Just something to think about. seriously. >>
This is the most ridiculous comment I have ever read. >>
not according to alot of collectors in my state. 20+ years of history and reputation. if you only knew. >>
<< <i>Notice that alot of people post about BBCE "reputation", This guy steve sounds like a great person with great reputation. But do you know why some people do not buy from BBCE? an employees reputation is just as important as the owners. dont want to get deep into this. just do your research on people. Example. If you visit a LCS and the owner is a great person with great hobby ethics, but when the owner is not in the shop and his "employees" are searching packs and other questionable acts or even a bad reputation , do you really want to purchase from that shop? Does a persons Local reputation in the hobby carry weight about that person? Can a person with a bad reputation "FIX" his reputation over years (I HOPE SO)?
THIS HAS NOTHING to do with steve, he sounds like a great person.
Just something to think about. seriously. >>
Are you saying that wax boxes have been searched by an employee?
<< <i>Notice that alot of people post about BBCE "reputation", This guy steve sounds like a great person with great reputation. But do you know why some people do not buy from BBCE? an employees reputation is just as important as the owners. dont want to get deep into this. just do your research on people. Example. If you visit a LCS and the owner is a great person with great hobby ethics, but when the owner is not in the shop and his "employees" are searching packs and other questionable acts or even a bad reputation , do you really want to purchase from that shop? Does a persons Local reputation in the hobby carry weight about that person? Can a person with a bad reputation "FIX" his reputation over years (I HOPE SO)?
THIS HAS NOTHING to do with steve, he sounds like a great person.
Just something to think about. seriously. >>
This is the most ridiculous comment I have ever read. >>
not according to alot of collectors in my state. 20+ years of history and reputation. if you only knew. >>
Of course people "can" flip their group rip stuff. I don't want to live with crazy restrictions any more than thee next guy. But I also can't imagine it being fun if it were all about flipping. It's not at the moment so I don't think this is a big deal, but It's certainly possible to see a good thing ruined, so people have opinions.
For those looking for hard lined rules on when the non flippers think it's "okay" to sell your stuff you bought as part of a community purchase, they can't exist. But it's not as hard to interpret as that imo. For me if someone is buying with no interest in what they are buying, and blocking a collector purely to add themselves in as an extra middle man, then some of us find that to be a cheap move outside the spirit of the rip. If you buy because you want it and end up selling, there isn't a time minimum.
Again, I'm expressing an opinion on a message board, I'm not looking for enforcible rules.
To bigdcards: "you are right" - cpamike "That is correct" -grote15
I have bought packs and boxes in quite a few of the group rips. I buy the packs to open but the boxes usually go in my closet in hopes that they will increase in value. I haven't sent a card in for grading in a few years so opening these boxes are usually done at a loss. I can buy the key cards or the set for much less than the box cost. All of the boxes I have will eventually be sold. The wax boxes still have the BBCE wrap. The cello boxes were opened to see if any stars were showing. I did get a 82 Topps cello with Ripken on it. The pack went back into the box. James
This could all help my sales.....Here's my new title format on EBAY
1958 Topps Baseball not hockey, football, nascar or Wrestling #150 Mickey Mantle PSA 7 not 1,2,3,4,5,6,8 or 9, not SGC, BVG or BGS...not Mays, Aaron, Harper "BBCE"
I guess I am confused as to what the bigger issue is -- buying and then selling referencing BBCE's name or simply buying with the group and selling period.
I know the response is in here many times, but if you pay honest money that Steve (an obviously good businessman) is asking for, then why should it be anyone's business what happens after that (i.e college tuition, major expense, getting out of the hobby or simply flipping to make a profit to buy more later?
Using BBCE's name will only guarantee success if potential buyers know BBCE and trust that the item came from them. Steve's company name carries clout because of his reputation. I dont see a big difference with this than using the PSA or BGS or SGC in your title. You are simply reaching out to people who put more faith in these companies.
And really in the end, what are the vast majority of us going to do with all of these cards? Possibly hand them down. But more likely, sell them in some form (graded, unopened, lots etc)
<< <i>I guess I am confused as to what the bigger issue is -- buying and then selling referencing BBCE's name or simply buying with the group and selling period.
I know the response is in here many times, but if you pay honest money that Steve (an obviously good businessman) is asking for, then why should it be anyone's business what happens after that (i.e college tuition, major expense, getting out of the hobby or simply flipping to make a profit to buy more later?
Using BBCE's name will only guarantee success if potential buyers know BBCE and trust that the item came from them. Steve's company name carries clout because of his reputation. I dont see a big difference with this than using the PSA or BGS or SGC in your title. You are simply reaching out to people who put more faith in these companies.
And really in the end, what are the vast majority of us going to do with all of these cards? Possibly hand them down. But more likely, sell them in some form (graded, unopened, lots etc) >>
agreed I love living in a free market where you can sell anything you want at anytime. Price fixing etc ruins any economy.
<< <i>This could all help my sales.....Here's my new title format on EBAY
1958 Topps Baseball not hockey, football, nascar or Wrestling #150 Mickey Mantle PSA 7 not 1,2,3,4,5,6,8 or 9, not SGC, BVG or BGS...not Mays, Aaron, Harper "BBCE"
What is interesting is those who get cellos or rack packs from group rips, with stars on top, display here for people to see, and other members will PM if they are offering to sell said packs.
Is this not the same thing as someone selling on eBay? Or is it only CU members can buy BBCE from each other?
I have stated it before and I will say it again, BBCE is not really a desirable eBay keyword. Only 9 auctions exist using BBCE as a keyword. Nine! There are more posts in this thread about selling on eBay than there are actual auctions out there at the moment.
And, lastly, this entire thread is completely misdirected as, at least those that are using BBCE in their title are selling legit products. Its like pointing the gun at the innocent. Why are you not pointing fingers at people who selling bad packs and rewrapped stuff! Those are the ones you should all be in a huff about! Not people who are selling stuff that is legitimate.
<< <i>Only 9 auctions exist using BBCE as a keyword. Nine! >>
and if there were only 8 you wouldn't be trying to defend your actions to a bunch of strangers. you've missed the point completely. there is generally no difficulty with anyone choosing to resell their own products while conducting themselves in an honest and businesslike manner.
you sir are not BBCE, and there is no reason to pose as them through a flimsy auction. the product is not a BBCE product, it's a TOPPS product. period.
<< <i>Only 9 auctions exist using BBCE as a keyword. Nine! >>
and if there were only 8 you wouldn't be trying to defend your actions to a bunch of strangers. you've missed the point completely. there is generally no difficulty with anyone choosing to resell their own products while conducting themselves in an honest and businesslike manner.
you sir are not BBCE, and there is no reason to pose as them through a flimsy auction. the product is not a BBCE product, it's a TOPPS product. period. >>
however, we should or could agree that such a practice steps outside the boundaries. up to you. nor are either of us so ignorant. >>
when you say "steps outside the boudaries", what do you mean. What boundaries?
I agree that this whole issue is a slippery slope and obviously lots of different opinions about the moral or ethical behaviors concerning buying/selling and the representation of said products.
I do not think it is inherently wrong mentioning BBCE in an auction thread. And I don't think in my particular auctions I am misrepresenting BBCE in any way. Even though the 75 mini packs do not have BBCE label (same with the 76 football), but I know where they came from, so I felt I was being honest in mentioning them as it would be a more trust-worthy pack of cards. And I do not keyword spam on every page either and thought I was being respectful. I have other products for sale that are from BBCE and have not mentioned them in the subject heading (for the simple reason that I don't think it was needed).
as an eBay seller you assume the responsibility of knowing the answer to your own question. i don't believe it's in either of our best interests to pursue this as an argument anymore. you will do what you believe is necessary to drive your business. no need for me to stand in your way.
as an eBay seller you assume the responsibility of knowing the answer to your own question. i don't believe it's in either of our best interests to pursue this as an argument anymore. you will do what you believe is necessary to drive your business. no need for me to stand in your way. >>
BBCE is a dealer that makes profit on most if not everything they sell and what they sell is after-market product that they themselves bought from someone with the intention to make a profit on. To think that people turning around and selling what they bought from BBCE to make their own profit is bad, is absurd. You don't get mad at someone who sells a card they bought from a card shop for a profit, do you. What's the difference. BBCE makes a crap-ton of money. They don't care if someone makes money off of something they sold, so why would anyone else.
however, we should or could agree that such a practice steps outside the boundaries. up to you. nor are either of us so ignorant. >>
Are you extending this to sales where the product has been sealed by BBCE? If so, I don't see how this can be an issue (it's unclear - maybe this is not what you meant). If a product has been authenticated by BBCE, just as some boxes are authenticated by GAI, or autos are authenticated by PSA, I have no issue noting this in the title. BBCE is to unopened what PSA/DNA is to signed material. Look how often "BBCE" is used in the for sale forum on these boards.
as an eBay seller you assume the responsibility of knowing the answer to your own question. i don't believe it's in either of our best interests to pursue this as an argument anymore. you will do what you believe is necessary to drive your business. no need for me to stand in your way. >>
<< <i>This is the most ridiculous comment I have ever read. >>
not according to alot of collectors in my state. 20+ years of history and reputation. if you only knew. >>
Please tell us what all the collectors in your state with "20+ years of history and reputation" have been telling you. I'm dying to know.
Your comment is ridiculous on so many levels. If only you knew. >>
I do not know steve, this has nothing to do with steve. BBCE and steve sounds like a great outstanding person/business. It is someone that is associated with BBCE that doesnt have a great reputation in his own state, and it is well known in the hobby of that state..
Deny all you want. Hopefully that person has changed for the better and is now more trustworthy for you all to feel comfortable with transactions.
<< <i>This is the most ridiculous comment I have ever read. >>
not according to alot of collectors in my state. 20+ years of history and reputation. if you only knew. >>
Please tell us what all the collectors in your state with "20+ years of history and reputation" have been telling you. I'm dying to know.
Your comment is ridiculous on so many levels. If only you knew. >>
I do not know steve, this has nothing to do with steve. BBCE and steve sounds like a great outstanding person/business. It is someone that is associated with BBCE that doesnt have a great reputation in his own state, and it is well known in the hobby of that state..
Deny all you want. Hopefully that person has changed for the better and is now more trustworthy for you all to feel comfortable with transactions. >>
Using BBCE,PSA, GAI etc in a listing title sounds reasonable for product that can be verified from that source as in the case with encapsulated items or BBCE shrink wrap perhaps. Once removed from "encapsulation" or shrink, a raw pack is a raw pack at the end of the day and there is no way for a prospective buyer to verify what subsequent owners have done with it. Loose packs routinely change hands several times, knowing that it was once from a box sold by BBCE means very little down the road. I would be inclined to mention the source in the description rather than the listing title where a buyer can decide if it is relevant information or not.
Ok new rule you can't resell your bbce product for 3 days 2 hours 5 minutes and 45 seconds after you receive it . You bought it you can do what you want with it
I am too morose over the Tigers FAIL so far against an obviously inferior but scrappy Red Sox team to post anything coherent but good lord what is the big deal? Also, how is any of this bad for BBCE or us for that matter? Would you rather poor saps continue to buy obviously resealed wax boxes and packs versus shrinkwapped BBCE?
EDIT: BTW nice job catching that keyword spamming Snuffy! That is bush-league imo
<< <i>Using BBCE,PSA, GAI etc in a listing title sounds reasonable for product that can be verified from that source as in the case with encapsulated items or BBCE shrink wrap perhaps. Once removed from "encapsulation" or shrink, a raw pack is a raw pack at the end of the day and there is no way for a prospective buyer to verify what subsequent owners have done with it. Loose packs routinely change hands several times, knowing that it was once from a box sold by BBCE means very little down the road. I would be inclined to mention the source in the description rather than the listing title where a buyer can decide if it is relevant information or not. >>
This.
I don't think mygotta had malicious intent. Going forward, unless it's still shrink-wrapped, it would be more appropriate to use BBCE's name in the description field rather than the title.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
there is no way for a prospective buyer to verify what subsequent owners have done with it
THERE IS ALSO NO WAY FOR A BUYER TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE THE ORIGINAL OWNER OF ANY CARD THAT YOU DEEM "HAD IT FROM PACKS I RIPPED 30 YEARS AGO". DOES THAT MEAN YOU CANT SAY IT?
WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE, ANY PROSPECTIVE BUYER WILL PUT AS MUCH STOCK AS THEY WANT TO WITH HOW YOU ADVERTISE.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Edit to add: IMO there is a big difference between a raw card and a raw pack as far as provenance goes. If mygotta were selling his bbce mini packs from bbce and advertising them as such on this forum where people know him and know he participated in the group rips, I don't think people would have an issue. But if you list a pack with BBCE in title and no explanation in the listing as to how that even correlates to the pack in question, that is a different story. In the end, you don't want to see resealers start to use BBCE in their auction titles to gain a false level of comfort from the buyer.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Edit to add: IMO there is a big difference between a raw card and a raw pack as far as provenance goes. If mygotta were selling his bbce mini packs from bbce and advertising them as such on this forum where people know him and know he participated in the group rips, I don't think people would have an issue. But if you list a pack with BBCE in title and no explanation in the listing as to how that even correlates to the pack in question, that is a different story. In the end, you don't want to see resealers start to use BBCE in their auction titles to gain a false level of comfort from the buyer. >>
Agreed. It's not the fact you used the acronym in your title -- I would have done the same -- but it's all predicated on not expounding in the description space afforded to you. As a result, it (imo) comes across like an unwarranted attention grab, thereby nullifying the clean provenance effect. Aside from that, I personally don't have a problem with anything you did. Lord knows there's a colossal difference between a pack derived from BBCE as compared to any other generic pack on eBay.
Can't tell you how often I type in 'BBCE' and hit search. But simply connecting on a listing doesn't suffice. If a seller doesn't take time to completely quell my apprehension, I'll leave quicker than I arrived.
I can't blame people for reselling stuff from BBCE. Sometimes you need the funds to help make other hobby purchases.
And let's face it, Steve's product is as good as cash lots of times. When you buy stuff from Steve you know it has been authenticated and it is good because he says it is. He's the best there is and I'm glad he's out there to make the hobby lots of fun for us all. I'll buy anything from Steve and know I can sleep at night knowing I got good stuff!
Speaking of the interesting analogy that Snuffy uses for card-collecting as passing a hot potato: I bought a 1975M wax-case from REA for around 12K, sold the entire case to Steve for 19K in order to help me purchase PSA 10 minis from a high-end set break a year ago...and recently I have just rebought 8 boxes of Minis at 2.1K so 1/2 case for 17k. What do you call the idiot who keeps passing the hot potato back and forth to himself I already know the answer!
So I totally get Mygotta's point about trading cards for cash.
IMO I think it is beneficial to all parties if more sealed BBCE boxes (and packs for that matter) start to circulate and if buyers in all forums begin to demand provenance of authenticity. This is good for BBCE and good for both buyer and seller. The alternative is to continue putting off novice collectors who get duped into buying re-sealed boxes.
EDIT: In regards to BBCE in the title line. If it is a sealed BBCE product, I believe you have every right to state this.
Person had 3 1980 Waxboxes for sale and sold 2 already at 899.00 (OBO). I forgot what the boxes from the last case sold for (675?) but I missed out as it was gone in a day. Again, I am totally missing why this is a bad thing. The seller made a few bucks, the buyer can be assured that the box is not resealed and was obviously willing to pay, and this is free advertising for Steve:
IF the seller can clearly show that the product was purchased from BBCE, I can live with the seller using BBCE in the title (although I'm not crazy about it).
I would prefer that they simply state the provenance in the description.
'Sir, I realize it's been difficult for you to sleep at night without your EX/MT 1977 Topps Tom Seaver, but I swear to you that you'll get it safe and sound.' -CDs Nuts, 1/20/14
<< <i>IF the seller can clearly show that the product was purchased from BBCE, I can live with the seller using BBCE in the title (although I'm not crazy about it).
I would prefer that they simply state the provenance in the description. >>
Ah, I'm with you! Yes, a couple of the auctions use the BBCE without any direct provenance like the sealed wrap. One guy has an opened cello box listed as BBCE. I agree that is wrong
Just better keep the sealed BBCE purchased boxes inside the sealed BBCE shipping box to make sure. hahahahahahahahaa
Hey, when I try to sell, 10 years down the road, a raw 1975 box, or a 1975 box in faked BBCE cellophane, or a 1975 box still in the original shipping box from BBCE - who do you trust ?
yes, this has gone quite cookoo
I'd trust 1985Fa*'s input. but - it's just psycho !
Comments
If someone thinks that selling cards you own is illegal, unethical, or immoral, I would love to hear why.
Finally, I think Steve Hart is a fantastic dude and represents everything that is right in our hobby. With that, anyone who thinks that Steve is supporting group breaks solely because he's a nice guy (which he happens to be) is incredibly naive. He does it because it is a great move for his business, for many reasons, most of which have already been mentioned. We owe Steve nothing but positive reviews after the transaction. Once you have bought a product from a group rip, you don't owe Steve or anyone else in the collecting community anything else.
jbox
<< <i>Why would anybody care? I don't get it. They bought and now they are selling. Good for them. >>
+1,000,000
<< <i>Notice that alot of people post about BBCE "reputation", This guy steve sounds like a great person with great reputation. But do you know why some people do not buy from BBCE? an employees reputation is just as important as the owners. dont want to get deep into this. just do your research on people. Example. If you visit a LCS and the owner is a great person with great hobby ethics, but when the owner is not in the shop and his "employees" are searching packs and other questionable acts or even a bad reputation , do you really want to purchase from that shop? Does a persons Local reputation in the hobby carry weight about that person? Can a person with a bad reputation "FIX" his reputation over years (I HOPE SO)?
THIS HAS NOTHING to do with steve, he sounds like a great person.
Just something to think about. seriously. >>
This is the most ridiculous comment I have ever read.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
<< <i>
<< <i>Notice that alot of people post about BBCE "reputation", This guy steve sounds like a great person with great reputation. But do you know why some people do not buy from BBCE? an employees reputation is just as important as the owners. dont want to get deep into this. just do your research on people. Example. If you visit a LCS and the owner is a great person with great hobby ethics, but when the owner is not in the shop and his "employees" are searching packs and other questionable acts or even a bad reputation , do you really want to purchase from that shop? Does a persons Local reputation in the hobby carry weight about that person? Can a person with a bad reputation "FIX" his reputation over years (I HOPE SO)?
THIS HAS NOTHING to do with steve, he sounds like a great person.
Just something to think about. seriously. >>
This is the most ridiculous comment I have ever read. >>
not according to alot of collectors in my state. 20+ years of history and reputation. if you only knew.
<< <i>Also, FWIW, Steve used to always give 10% to me as long as I spent $1,000 on that purchase. Or maybe it was $500. I can't remember as it was a few years ago. Thus the group rips are no different of a discount than he gives to any good customer. I can't imagine Steve really cares what one does with "his" boxes after they are sold. He made his money and the box would have to be re-sold for a lot more (thus raising over-all market value) for that person to make a profit. You people are too funny sometimes. >>
I inquired once about buying a large quantity of boxes at a discount and was also offered the same 10%, after asking. It was around $800 of modern wax boxes, all the same product.
jbox
<< <i>To participate in a group rip the only requirement is being a member here.
And if you purchase something from BBCE (regardless of whether it was through a group rip, direct from the BBCE website, on ebay or at a card show), it is now your property and you can do whatever you want with it. >>
Exactly.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>Ummm... if someone buys a box from the group rip, even at 10% off the already premium price, and tries to flip it on ebay, they will lose their @$$ after fees. Am I wrong? >>
My thoughts too. I simply deduct 20% of the total sale for eBay fees, PP fees. If I didn't charge shipping, I'd have to be a power seller to make money.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Notice that alot of people post about BBCE "reputation", This guy steve sounds like a great person with great reputation. But do you know why some people do not buy from BBCE? an employees reputation is just as important as the owners. dont want to get deep into this. just do your research on people. Example. If you visit a LCS and the owner is a great person with great hobby ethics, but when the owner is not in the shop and his "employees" are searching packs and other questionable acts or even a bad reputation , do you really want to purchase from that shop? Does a persons Local reputation in the hobby carry weight about that person? Can a person with a bad reputation "FIX" his reputation over years (I HOPE SO)?
THIS HAS NOTHING to do with steve, he sounds like a great person.
Just something to think about. seriously. >>
This is the most ridiculous comment I have ever read. >>
not according to alot of collectors in my state. 20+ years of history and reputation. if you only knew. >>
<< <i>Notice that alot of people post about BBCE "reputation", This guy steve sounds like a great person with great reputation. But do you know why some people do not buy from BBCE? an employees reputation is just as important as the owners. dont want to get deep into this. just do your research on people. Example. If you visit a LCS and the owner is a great person with great hobby ethics, but when the owner is not in the shop and his "employees" are searching packs and other questionable acts or even a bad reputation , do you really want to purchase from that shop? Does a persons Local reputation in the hobby carry weight about that person? Can a person with a bad reputation "FIX" his reputation over years (I HOPE SO)?
THIS HAS NOTHING to do with steve, he sounds like a great person.
Just something to think about. seriously. >>
Are you saying that wax boxes have been searched by an employee?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Notice that alot of people post about BBCE "reputation", This guy steve sounds like a great person with great reputation. But do you know why some people do not buy from BBCE? an employees reputation is just as important as the owners. dont want to get deep into this. just do your research on people. Example. If you visit a LCS and the owner is a great person with great hobby ethics, but when the owner is not in the shop and his "employees" are searching packs and other questionable acts or even a bad reputation , do you really want to purchase from that shop? Does a persons Local reputation in the hobby carry weight about that person? Can a person with a bad reputation "FIX" his reputation over years (I HOPE SO)?
THIS HAS NOTHING to do with steve, he sounds like a great person.
Just something to think about. seriously. >>
This is the most ridiculous comment I have ever read. >>
not according to alot of collectors in my state. 20+ years of history and reputation. if you only knew. >>
Are you the infamous Haiku?
<< <i>
<< <i>This is the most ridiculous comment I have ever read. >>
not according to alot of collectors in my state. 20+ years of history and reputation. if you only knew. >>
Please tell us what all the collectors in your state with "20+ years of history and reputation" have been telling you. I'm dying to know.
Your comment is ridiculous on so many levels. If only you knew.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
For those looking for hard lined rules on when the non flippers think it's "okay" to sell your stuff you bought as part of a community purchase, they can't exist. But it's not as hard to interpret as that imo. For me if someone is buying with no interest in what they are buying, and blocking a collector purely to add themselves in as an extra middle man, then some of us find that to be a cheap move outside the spirit of the rip. If you buy because you want it and end up selling, there isn't a time minimum.
Again, I'm expressing an opinion on a message board, I'm not looking for enforcible rules.
James
1958 Topps Baseball not hockey, football, nascar or Wrestling #150 Mickey Mantle PSA 7 not 1,2,3,4,5,6,8 or 9, not SGC, BVG or BGS...not Mays, Aaron, Harper "BBCE"
$$$$$$$
I know the response is in here many times, but if you pay honest money that Steve (an obviously good businessman) is asking for, then why should it be anyone's business what happens after that (i.e college tuition, major expense, getting out of the hobby or simply flipping to make a profit to buy more later?
Using BBCE's name will only guarantee success if potential buyers know BBCE and trust that the item came from them. Steve's company name carries clout because of his reputation. I dont see a big difference with this than using the PSA or BGS or SGC in your title. You are simply reaching out to people who put more faith in these companies.
And really in the end, what are the vast majority of us going to do with all of these cards? Possibly hand them down. But more likely, sell them in some form (graded, unopened, lots etc)
<< <i>I guess I am confused as to what the bigger issue is -- buying and then selling referencing BBCE's name or simply buying with the group and selling period.
I know the response is in here many times, but if you pay honest money that Steve (an obviously good businessman) is asking for, then why should it be anyone's business what happens after that (i.e college tuition, major expense, getting out of the hobby or simply flipping to make a profit to buy more later?
Using BBCE's name will only guarantee success if potential buyers know BBCE and trust that the item came from them. Steve's company name carries clout because of his reputation. I dont see a big difference with this than using the PSA or BGS or SGC in your title. You are simply reaching out to people who put more faith in these companies.
And really in the end, what are the vast majority of us going to do with all of these cards? Possibly hand them down. But more likely, sell them in some form (graded, unopened, lots etc) >>
agreed I love living in a free market where you can sell anything you want at anytime. Price fixing etc ruins any economy.
<< <i>This could all help my sales.....Here's my new title format on EBAY
1958 Topps Baseball not hockey, football, nascar or Wrestling #150 Mickey Mantle PSA 7 not 1,2,3,4,5,6,8 or 9, not SGC, BVG or BGS...not Mays, Aaron, Harper "BBCE"
$$$$$$$ >>
and no basketball. shame on you evil doer.
Is this not the same thing as someone selling on eBay? Or is it only CU members can buy BBCE from each other?
I have stated it before and I will say it again, BBCE is not really a desirable eBay keyword. Only 9 auctions exist using BBCE as a keyword. Nine! There are more posts in this thread about selling on eBay than there are actual auctions out there at the moment.
And, lastly, this entire thread is completely misdirected as, at least those that are using BBCE in their title are selling legit products. Its like pointing the gun at the innocent. Why are you not pointing fingers at people who selling bad packs and rewrapped stuff! Those are the ones you should all be in a huff about! Not people who are selling stuff that is legitimate.
<< <i>Only 9 auctions exist using BBCE as a keyword. Nine! >>
and if there were only 8 you wouldn't be trying to defend your actions to a bunch of strangers. you've missed the point completely. there is generally no difficulty with anyone choosing to resell their own products while conducting themselves in an honest and businesslike manner.
you sir are not BBCE, and there is no reason to pose as them through a flimsy auction. the product is not a BBCE product, it's a TOPPS product. period.
<< <i>
<< <i>Only 9 auctions exist using BBCE as a keyword. Nine! >>
and if there were only 8 you wouldn't be trying to defend your actions to a bunch of strangers. you've missed the point completely. there is generally no difficulty with anyone choosing to resell their own products while conducting themselves in an honest and businesslike manner.
you sir are not BBCE, and there is no reason to pose as them through a flimsy auction. the product is not a BBCE product, it's a TOPPS product. period. >>
and I am not Topps either.
however, we should or could agree that such a practice steps outside the boundaries. up to you. nor are either of us so ignorant.
<< <i>HA! well played.
however, we should or could agree that such a practice steps outside the boundaries. up to you. nor are either of us so ignorant. >>
when you say "steps outside the boudaries", what do you mean. What boundaries?
I agree that this whole issue is a slippery slope and obviously lots of different opinions about the moral or ethical behaviors concerning buying/selling and the representation of said products.
I do not think it is inherently wrong mentioning BBCE in an auction thread. And I don't think in my particular auctions I am misrepresenting BBCE in any way. Even though the 75 mini packs do not have BBCE label (same with the 76 football), but I know where they came from, so I felt I was being honest in mentioning them as it would be a more trust-worthy pack of cards. And I do not keyword spam on every page either and thought I was being respectful. I have other products for sale that are from BBCE and have not mentioned them in the subject heading (for the simple reason that I don't think it was needed).
<< <i>What boundaries? >>
as an eBay seller you assume the responsibility of knowing the answer to your own question. i don't believe it's in either of our best interests to pursue this as an argument anymore. you will do what you believe is necessary to drive your business. no need for me to stand in your way.
<< <i>
<< <i>What boundaries? >>
as an eBay seller you assume the responsibility of knowing the answer to your own question. i don't believe it's in either of our best interests to pursue this as an argument anymore. you will do what you believe is necessary to drive your business. no need for me to stand in your way. >>
Amen!!
<< <i>HA! well played.
however, we should or could agree that such a practice steps outside the boundaries. up to you. nor are either of us so ignorant. >>
Are you extending this to sales where the product has been sealed by BBCE? If so, I don't see how this can be an issue (it's unclear - maybe this is not what you meant). If a product has been authenticated by BBCE, just as some boxes are authenticated by GAI, or autos are authenticated by PSA, I have no issue noting this in the title. BBCE is to unopened what PSA/DNA is to signed material. Look how often "BBCE" is used in the for sale forum on these boards.
<< <i>
<< <i>What boundaries? >>
as an eBay seller you assume the responsibility of knowing the answer to your own question. i don't believe it's in either of our best interests to pursue this as an argument anymore. you will do what you believe is necessary to drive your business. no need for me to stand in your way. >>
Agreed
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>This is the most ridiculous comment I have ever read. >>
not according to alot of collectors in my state. 20+ years of history and reputation. if you only knew. >>
Please tell us what all the collectors in your state with "20+ years of history and reputation" have been telling you. I'm dying to know.
Your comment is ridiculous on so many levels. If only you knew. >>
I do not know steve, this has nothing to do with steve.
BBCE and steve sounds like a great outstanding person/business. It is someone that is associated with BBCE that doesnt have a great reputation in his own state, and it is well known in the hobby of that state..
Deny all you want. Hopefully that person has changed for the better and is now more trustworthy for you all to feel comfortable with transactions.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>This is the most ridiculous comment I have ever read. >>
not according to alot of collectors in my state. 20+ years of history and reputation. if you only knew. >>
Please tell us what all the collectors in your state with "20+ years of history and reputation" have been telling you. I'm dying to know.
Your comment is ridiculous on so many levels. If only you knew. >>
I do not know steve, this has nothing to do with steve.
BBCE and steve sounds like a great outstanding person/business. It is someone that is associated with BBCE that doesnt have a great reputation in his own state, and it is well known in the hobby of that state..
Deny all you want. Hopefully that person has changed for the better and is now more trustworthy for you all to feel comfortable with transactions. >>
You work for the competition?
EDIT: BTW nice job catching that keyword spamming Snuffy! That is bush-league imo
<< <i>Using BBCE,PSA, GAI etc in a listing title sounds reasonable for product that can be verified from that source as in the case with encapsulated items or BBCE shrink wrap perhaps. Once removed from "encapsulation" or shrink, a raw pack is a raw pack at the end of the day and there is no way for a prospective buyer to verify what subsequent owners have done with it. Loose packs routinely change hands several times, knowing that it was once from a box sold by BBCE means very little down the road. I would be inclined to mention the source in the description rather than the listing title where a buyer can decide if it is relevant information or not. >>
This.
I don't think mygotta had malicious intent. Going forward, unless it's still shrink-wrapped, it would be more appropriate to use BBCE's name in the description field rather than the title.
THERE IS ALSO NO WAY FOR A BUYER TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE THE ORIGINAL OWNER OF ANY CARD THAT YOU DEEM "HAD IT FROM PACKS I RIPPED 30 YEARS AGO". DOES THAT MEAN YOU CANT SAY IT?
WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE, ANY PROSPECTIVE BUYER WILL PUT AS MUCH STOCK AS THEY WANT TO WITH HOW YOU ADVERTISE.
<< <i>Why are you yelling? >>
Edit to add: IMO there is a big difference between a raw card and a raw pack as far as provenance goes. If mygotta were selling his bbce mini packs from bbce and advertising them as such on this forum where people know him and know he participated in the group rips, I don't think people would have an issue. But if you list a pack with BBCE in title and no explanation in the listing as to how that even correlates to the pack in question, that is a different story. In the end, you don't want to see resealers start to use BBCE in their auction titles to gain a false level of comfort from the buyer.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Edit to add: IMO there is a big difference between a raw card and a raw pack as far as provenance goes. If mygotta were selling his bbce mini packs from bbce and advertising them as such on this forum where people know him and know he participated in the group rips, I don't think people would have an issue. But if you list a pack with BBCE in title and no explanation in the listing as to how that even correlates to the pack in question, that is a different story. In the end, you don't want to see resealers start to use BBCE in their auction titles to gain a false level of comfort from the buyer. >>
Agreed. It's not the fact you used the acronym in your title -- I would have done the same -- but it's all predicated on not expounding in the description space afforded to you. As a result, it (imo) comes across like an unwarranted attention grab, thereby nullifying the clean provenance effect. Aside from that, I personally don't have a problem with anything you did. Lord knows there's a colossal difference between a pack derived from BBCE as compared to any other generic pack on eBay.
Can't tell you how often I type in 'BBCE' and hit search. But simply connecting on a listing doesn't suffice. If a seller doesn't take time to completely quell my apprehension, I'll leave quicker than I arrived.
Just my $.02, brother from another mother.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
And let's face it, Steve's product is as good as cash lots of times. When you buy stuff from Steve you know it has been authenticated and it is good because he says it is.
He's the best there is and I'm glad he's out there to make the hobby lots of fun for us all. I'll buy anything from Steve and know I can sleep at night knowing I got good stuff!
aconte
So I totally get Mygotta's point about trading cards for cash.
IMO I think it is beneficial to all parties if more sealed BBCE boxes (and packs for that matter) start to circulate and if buyers in all forums begin to demand provenance of authenticity. This is good for BBCE and good for both buyer and seller. The alternative is to continue putting off novice collectors who get duped into buying re-sealed boxes.
EDIT: In regards to BBCE in the title line. If it is a sealed BBCE product, I believe you have every right to state this.
James
1980T Waxbox BBCE
I would prefer that they simply state the provenance in the description.
-CDs Nuts, 1/20/14
*1956 Topps baseball- 97.4% complete, 7.24 GPA
*Clemente basic set: 85.0% complete, 7.89 GPA
<< <i>IF the seller can clearly show that the product was purchased from BBCE, I can live with the seller using BBCE in the title (although I'm not crazy about it).
I would prefer that they simply state the provenance in the description. >>
Ah, I'm with you! Yes, a couple of the auctions use the BBCE without any direct provenance like the sealed wrap. One guy has an opened cello box listed as BBCE. I agree that is wrong
Hey, when I try to sell, 10 years down the road, a raw 1975 box, or a 1975 box in faked BBCE cellophane, or a 1975 box still in the original shipping box from BBCE - who do you trust ?
yes, this has gone quite cookoo
I'd trust 1985Fa*'s input. but - it's just psycho !