New Pet Peeve- People reselling "recent" BBCE purchases
shu4040
Posts: 982 ✭✭✭
you see on ebay, recent boxes from BBCE- as evidenced by the new wrapping they just started using. It really bothers me that people are flipping recent BBCE purchases. Most of these boxes never reach the BBCE website i think. I have no problem with Steve selling offline to his good customers, but he shouldn't be selling to those that just resell. they are basically the ticket scalpers of the unopened industry.
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Comments
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>His discount on group rips has went from 10% to 5%. I do believe he is well aware. >>
This.
Any way it's a chickens--- move, not to mention tacky and CHEAP to buy in a group rip and then turn around and sell for chump change profit.
1975 Topps Baseball Mini Wax Pack RARE BBCE
<< <i>Auctions like this should bother everyone including Steve even more!
1975 Topps Baseball Mini Wax Pack RARE BBCE >>
Now yes, that is pretty bad. It's like using PSA in auctions when you're not selling a PSA graded card.
But how is it different from purchasing a letter of authenticity from meigrey, auction house etc. ? Or even paying for authentication from PSA? Or even the premium I pay BBCE for their authentication seal and sticker? People on this board say how steve should sell his services to authenticate individual packs on his own. That's basically what bbce is doing by applying their seal/wrap.
In the game used world, if u have authentication from a reputable source u can sell that jersey for 5-10X more.
I guess its their right by I think detrimental in the long run to the rest of us. Don't getbme wrong I agree with u guys. In fact, I'm sure when I've been shut out and too late to a group rip it's because a couple of these guys beat me to it.
<< <i>Auctions like this should bother everyone including Steve even more!
1975 Topps Baseball Mini Wax Pack RARE BBCE >>
That is absolutely worse than reselling actual bbce shrinkwrapped products.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
When someone tries to flip a recent purchase, that does not bother me in the slightest.
-CDs Nuts, 1/20/14
*1956 Topps baseball- 97.4% complete, 7.24 GPA
*Clemente basic set: 85.0% complete, 7.89 GPA
So, if someone buys something as part of the group rip, are they expected to rip the pack? Save the pack? Grade the pack? Grade the cards from ripping the pack? Anything as long as they don't sell the pack? It appears that some are a little sour even though there is no clear cut rule in place while others are amused by someone making a profit -- there's nothing wrong with profit...
If someone offers up a card here (with a CU discount), is the person that buys it only allowed to post an image or put it in their collection? This HAS happened in the past and others have made snide comments about another member profiting from a sale.
Seems like some want to have their cake and eat it, too. Maybe just a little too much jealousy?
If Steve decides to take away the discount I think it will be because the supply in the market is so tight right now that he can move it quickly without it.
There has been a lot of new issues in the stock market where people quickly flip the shares. In a perfect world everyone would hold it but not everyone has the same time horizon or outlook. Some of these sellers may have bitten off more then they can chew or others may want to cash in on a little quick profit if they can. That is what makes a market. Quite frankly all of the bulls on unopened should be thrilled when these guys flip the packs as it creates supply for them to buy and gets the merchandise in stronger hands.
I just can't fathom that people are getting upset with a few buyers that purchase cards and want to re sell them. They paid for them and they own them. They take the risk of an up market or a down market. What they do with them after they purchase is their prerogative and no one else's.
If you are spending tons of money on trading cards and not the slightest bit concerned with what you can potentially sell them for that is fine but I personally like to consider my chances of getting my money out of things. Many are using trading cards as investment vehicles at the moment and especially in the sealed pack market. It is only natural when speculation moves into anything that there are going to be fast buyers and sellers. It is nothing new and will never change.
Steve as many know is an asset to the hobby and we need profit seekers and he is one. I applaud that and think under no circumstances he should even have to worry who he is selling too. The grocery store doesn't turn fat people away when they try and buy a box of fried chicken and nor should Steve turn away people who might decide to sell. Most have determined he is the only source they will buy from so it is only natural that this will happen.
Edit to add: I would agree too that the amount of business this board generates for BBCE is certainly worth the 10% discount from the standpoint of a business like BBCE, and I am very appreciative of that discount, and hope it will continue going forward. I have no issue with anyone selling anything they own for whatever reason they want. That's their business, imo.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>People can buy and sell whatever they like for whatever price they like. But I do believe that this behavior undermines the spirit of Steve's group rips and may cause an end to the discount on them (which I wouldn't blame Steve for in the slightest). So, basically, it's just going to ruin things for those that participate in the rips. >>
This is dead on. Flipping from the rips is not in the spirit of collectors sharing an experience. If Steve's prices are so good on the regular site that any joe can buy and flip it, congrats to steve, and keep an eye on the site.
<< <i>
<< <i>People can buy and sell whatever they like for whatever price they like. But I do believe that this behavior undermines the spirit of Steve's group rips and may cause an end to the discount on them (which I wouldn't blame Steve for in the slightest). So, basically, it's just going to ruin things for those that participate in the rips. >>
This is dead on. Flipping from the rips is not in the spirit of collectors sharing an experience. If Steve's prices are so good on the regular site that any joe can buy and flip it, congrats to steve, and keep an eye on the site. >>
That would be my issue as well. If you wanna buy straight from BBCE and sell on ebay, fine. But if you are buying from a group rip intending to toss it on ebay at a markup, just let the guys on the board who actually collect get it.
I stand by my assertion that to buy on a group rip and sell for a marginal profit is a cheap move.
<< <i>
<< <i>Auctions like this should bother everyone including Steve even more!
1975 Topps Baseball Mini Wax Pack RARE BBCE >>
That is absolutely worse than reselling actual bbce shrinkwrapped products. >>
So should I be ashamed of this? First off, I dont buy from BBCE with the intention of moving them on eBay. But from time to time I try to make my financial ends meet and if that means moving a few stuff I had purchased, then thats what needs to be done. If advertising BBCE in the process gets what I am looking for, then that is what I need to do. I am not having a fire sale, nor do I want to see them go. But when push comes to shove, I will let them go at a certain price. I have seen lots of people here let sell their stuff for whatever reason and that is the course our lives take. I am not duping anyone, I am not selling wrappers with gum, nor am I stealing or re-packaing the packs. So if I am guilty for needing a few extra bucks at this time, then sue me and complain to the higher ups. I like this forum and the people in it and I like BBCE and PSA. I am not trying to ruin anyones credibility, it is just a matter of making ends meet. If you are offended by my efforts, then I apologize in advance.
<< <i>That would be my issue as well. If you wanna buy straight from BBCE and sell on ebay, fine. But if you are buying from a group rip intending to toss it on ebay at a markup, just let the guys on the board who actually collect get it. >>
Yeah! And how about those guys that wait for other people to rip before they do. If they see the box is yielding crap they don't open them and sometimes sell them!
<< <i>People can buy and sell whatever they like for whatever price they like. But I do believe that this behavior undermines the spirit of Steve's group rips and may cause an end to the discount on them (which I wouldn't blame Steve for in the slightest). So, basically, it's just going to ruin things for those that participate in the rips. >>
I also agree with this take. Well said. I haven't paid close attention, but I don't have an issue where a seller is looking to get a 10-15% increase over what they paid, which is just to recover fees. Sometimes in a moment of excitement, people can jump in a little too deep.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Auctions like this should bother everyone including Steve even more!
1975 Topps Baseball Mini Wax Pack RARE BBCE >>
That is absolutely worse than reselling actual bbce shrinkwrapped products. >>
So should I be ashamed of this? First off, I dont buy from BBCE with the intention of moving them on eBay. But from time to time I try to make my financial ends meet and if that means moving a few stuff I had purchased, then thats what needs to be done. If advertising BBCE in the process gets what I am looking for, then that is what I need to do. I am not having a fire sale, nor do I want to see them go. But when push comes to shove, I will let them go at a certain price. I have seen lots of people here let sell their stuff for whatever reason and that is the course our lives take. I am not duping anyone, I am not selling wrappers with gum, nor am I stealing or re-packaing the packs. So if I am guilty for needing a few extra bucks at this time, then sue me and complain to the higher ups. I like this forum and the people in it and I like BBCE and PSA. I am not trying to ruin anyones credibility, it is just a matter of making ends meet. If you are offended by my efforts, then I apologize in advance. >>
It's not the fact that you are selling packs you may have purechased via group rips, but using BBCE's name in the auction title.
$100 a pack??
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Appreciate today-
Bill
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Auctions like this should bother everyone including Steve even more!
1975 Topps Baseball Mini Wax Pack RARE BBCE >>
That is absolutely worse than reselling actual bbce shrinkwrapped products. >>
So should I be ashamed of this? First off, I dont buy from BBCE with the intention of moving them on eBay. But from time to time I try to make my financial ends meet and if that means moving a few stuff I had purchased, then thats what needs to be done. If advertising BBCE in the process gets what I am looking for, then that is what I need to do. I am not having a fire sale, nor do I want to see them go. But when push comes to shove, I will let them go at a certain price. I have seen lots of people here let sell their stuff for whatever reason and that is the course our lives take. I am not duping anyone, I am not selling wrappers with gum, nor am I stealing or re-packaing the packs. So if I am guilty for needing a few extra bucks at this time, then sue me and complain to the higher ups. I like this forum and the people in it and I like BBCE and PSA. I am not trying to ruin anyones credibility, it is just a matter of making ends meet. If you are offended by my efforts, then I apologize in advance. >>
They are YOUR packs. Sell them, rip them or even burn them. Every one else's can suck it.
Fixed!
<< <i>Ummm... if someone buys a box from the group rip, even at 10% off the already premium price, and tries to flip it on ebay, they will lose their @$$ after fees. Am I wrong? >>
eBay plus PayPal add up to about 13%, so it's a bout a wash versus the discount. But keep in mind that many of the products offered for CU group rips already tend to sell for more on eBay. On top of that, CincyRedLegs has been able to secure many of the most desirable products that wouldn't last a few days, let alone a few weeks, on BBCE's site. For example, when I recently purchased a few 1982/83 items from BBCE direct, there was no discount (and I did not and am not complaining). So I think there are definitely instances where a near-certain break-even if not profit is available. Like I said, some people can get a little over-excited or run into unforeseen circumstances. I am not passing judgment on anyone, but I do think that if enough people appear to be taking advantage of the discount, it will go poof. A few bad apples...
<< <i>The group rips have been a gold mine for Steve. Not only has he sold a ton of product and gotten great publicity, he has also accumulated a ton of new customers from them. If Steve decides to take away the discount I think it will be because the supply in the market is so tight right now that he can move it quickly without itThere has been a lot of new issues in the stock market where people quickly flip the shares. In a perfect world everyone would hold it but not everyone has the same time horizon or outlook. Some of these sellers may have bitten off more then they can chew or others may want to cash in on a little quick profit if they can. That is what makes a market. Quite frankly all of the bulls on unopened should be thrilled when these guys flip the packs as it creates supply for them to buy and gets the merchandise in stronger hands. I just can't fathom that people are getting upset with a few buyers that purchase cards and want to re sell them. They paid for them and they own them. They take the risk of an up market or a down market. What they do with them after they purchase is their prerogative and no one else's. If you are spending tons of money on trading cards and not the slightest bit concerned with what you can potentially sell them for that is fine but I personally like to consider my chances of getting my money out of things. Many are using trading cards as investment vehicles at the moment and especially in the sealed pack market. It is only natural when speculation moves into anything that there are going to be fast buyers and sellers. It is nothing new and will never change. Steve as many know is an asset to the hobby and we need profit seekers and he is one. I applaud that and think under no circumstances he should even have to worry who he is selling too. The grocery store doesn't turn fat people away when they try and buy a box of fried chicken and nor should Steve turn away people who might decide to sell. Most have determined he is the only source they will buy from so it is only natural that this will happen. >>
+192.846
<< <i>Ummm... if someone buys a box from the group rip, even at 10% off the already premium price, and tries to flip it on ebay, they will lose their @$$ after fees. Am I wrong? >>
Depends on what someone is willing to pay. The way unopened is going, it's not taking long for it to appreciate. Buying at a 10% discount, or any discount for that matter, waiting a while, and selling unopened, looks like the closest thing to a "sure thing" right now.
<< <i>Mygotta, I'm confused. Is that your item or are you speaking in hypotheticals? >>
yup. they are mine.
<< <i>
<< <i>Mygotta, I'm confused. Is that your item or are you speaking in hypotheticals? >>
yup. they are mine. >>
Good for you! keep it up!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Auctions like this should bother everyone including Steve even more!
1975 Topps Baseball Mini Wax Pack RARE BBCE >>
That is absolutely worse than reselling actual bbce shrinkwrapped products. >>
So should I be ashamed of this? First off, I dont buy from BBCE with the intention of moving them on eBay. But from time to time I try to make my financial ends meet and if that means moving a few stuff I had purchased, then thats what needs to be done. If advertising BBCE in the process gets what I am looking for, then that is what I need to do. I am not having a fire sale, nor do I want to see them go. But when push comes to shove, I will let them go at a certain price. I have seen lots of people here let sell their stuff for whatever reason and that is the course our lives take. I am not duping anyone, I am not selling wrappers with gum, nor am I stealing or re-packaing the packs. So if I am guilty for needing a few extra bucks at this time, then sue me and complain to the higher ups. I like this forum and the people in it and I like BBCE and PSA. I am not trying to ruin anyones credibility, it is just a matter of making ends meet. If you are offended by my efforts, then I apologize in advance. >>
Wow. This thread is certainly polarizing. @Mygotta I am of the opinion that it is your property and you can sell it if that is your choice without having to defend yourself.
I am certain that much of the unopened product on the B/S/T board is product purchased from BBCE (and is touted as such). I would also think that a percentage of this BBCE advertised board product has come from previous group breaks. Several posts have said that they don't like how quickly the seller is "flipping" the product or the fact that some people sell the product for a "small profit". So to all those who are casting stones at the seller, is there a certain amount of time needed to pass or a certain amount of profit required where it then becomes tasteful to sell product obtained through a group break?
Ultimately the only opinion that really matters on this particular subject is Steve's as he is the one who is providing the material for the group rip. If Steve has a problem with people selling his product from group rips in such a manner then I hope he would simply state this opinion rather then cancelling all future group breaks. From what I have seen and heard about Steve, he seems to be very honest and runs an excellent business. He is in the business of buying and reselling items. I think he is astute enough to know that he can probably charge more for some of his products then what he sells them for. However, there is a thing to be said for taking your profits even if they are smaller than you could make over a longer period of time, if the profits can then be put into new inventory that can be resold for yet more profits. Steve does not want inventory that sits. He wants to turn his inventory over so that he can purchase new items that can be sold again. The faster he sells products the more he makes in the long run.
I definitely think it is generous of Steve to have provided 10% discounts on previous group breaks as well as the 5% discount on the next group break. I certainly thank him for the discount as it is always great to buy quality product at any discount. As another poster has reasoned, while I am sure he wants to support the board, the discount is not necessarily just an altruistic donation. The discount helps him to sell products in the group break as well as attract new customers who will buy from him again and again in the future. I for one was new to the boards and had been out of the unopened market for years until I came upon this board and a thread for a group rip. I started by just buying 3 packs in my first group break (two breaks ago). In the last break I increased my take to multiple boxes and packs and I have also purchased from Steve directly since my introduction to the breaks. Before my first break I had never heard of BBCE. I would say he got his money back and then some for the discount he provided on the group break. Also, chances are that he is not selling the group break material at a loss and writing it off as a charitable donation in the first place. He is probably making at least some profit on the material and gaining goodwill and more new customers. I hardly think he will be upset if someone sells his material for a profit after it is out of his hands. If no one were able to sell his material for profit after buying from him, chances are he would have a much harder time selling his material in the first place. So it is probably a good problem to have if you're Steve and BBCE.
Just my opinion.
Steve (not Steve Hart)
<< <i>Just out of curiosity, why would you think it was kosher to use BBCE in the title even though there's no reference to the packs being from BBCE? >>
I put BBCE there because I got it from them. Its that simple. If it offers a little comfort from buyers that they are getting good stuff, then I will use it. I did not keyword spam my entire collection with BBCE. There are boxes I have listed with BBCE stickers that I did not put in the subject heading because, quite frankly, (contrary to this thread) BBCE is NOT a hot keyword. I did a standard search for BBCE and 18 items came up, half of which are not even card related. So if you think 3 listings I have among the millions of eBay auctions is ruining things in this little corner of the card universe, then I would ask what all the hub bub is about. This thread is probably more detrimental to the group rips than the few eBay listings that have BBCE listed in their subject line.
2 common sayings are appropriate: curiosity killed the cat!! and all of the time 2 cents aren't worth a nickel!!
<< <i>
<< <i>Just out of curiosity, why would you think it was kosher to use BBCE in the title even though there's no reference to the packs being from BBCE? >>
I put BBCE there because I got it from them. Its that simple. If it offers a little comfort from buyers that they are getting good stuff, then I will use it. I did not keyword spam my entire collection with BBCE. There are boxes I have listed with BBCE stickers that I did not put in the subject heading because, quite frankly, (contrary to this thread) BBCE is NOT a hot keyword. I did a standard search for BBCE and 18 items came up, half of which are not even card related. So if you think 3 listings I have among the millions of eBay auctions is ruining things in this little corner of the card universe, then I would ask what all the hub bub is about. This thread is probably more detrimental to the group rips than the few eBay listings that have BBCE listed in their subject line. >>
You should put that in your auction description so the buyer knows. Otherwise it just looks like keyword spamming.
<< <i>You should put that in your auction description so the buyer knows. Otherwise it just looks like keyword spamming. >>
I meant no offense at all to Anthony and I explained that to him. I did not intend to point out his auction as being fraudulent or nefarious in anyway. If I saw some provenance listed, as ReggieCleveland suggested, in the auction, I would not even have mentioned it. The point I was trying to make is that people trust and buy the BBCE brand name. How are people to distinguish between legitimate auctions like MyGotta's and some evil doer using the BBCE name to rip people off. Without provenance in the auction it is impossible to tell unless you know and trust the seller as is the case with Anthony/MyGotta. As more and more non provenance BBCE auctions start popping up, history has taught us in this niche of the hobby, more and more will be frauds. If an evil doer finds a crack or an opening they will exploit it and use it. Once enough people get scammed and start associating that with BBCE in the auction title, it hurts the "Brand" and in turn the people holding the brand. It may not be a big issue now, but, big issues sometimes start out as small ones. If I were Steve, I would be concerned seeing people using my name without some type of provenance such as my shrink-wrap on the product. Its more then just an auction keyword or marketing phrase, its his LIFE. BUT.. I could be wrong… Only Steve can answer how he feels about people using his name with raw packs and opened boxes without showing any provenance. Maybe he doesn't care at all.
if you want to sell on eBay, why not represent yourself appropriately? then sell whatever you want without any repercussion when your OWN reputation speaks for you. not that of a wildly successful dealer who outperforms you on every level.
while you're at it, why not add Probstein, Babe Ruth, Michael Jordan, Ghandi & The Lord Almighty to your title?
A huge number of the packs never even get broken. I have a feeling pretty soon someone will suggest this hurts the spirit of a break when they had no plans of opening them.
Is it against the "etiquette rules" to get a star pack graded and sell it? Is it against the "etiquette rules" to flip one of the high grade cards? Is it against the "etiquette rules" for someone who doesn't collect baseball cards or hockey or whatever to buy a few packs and prevent a true collector from getting them? Is it against the "etiquette rules" to use them for trades with other collectors? Is it against the "etiquette rules" to sell them for a loss in the future?
I am still just so baffled that this is even a potential issue to anyone. I am afraid the next thread will be Steve should be selling his merchandise at cost because he has an unfair advantage of finding it.
<< <i>you see on ebay, recent boxes from BBCE- as evidenced by the new wrapping they just started using. It really bothers me that people are flipping recent BBCE purchases. Most of these boxes never reach the BBCE website i think. I have no problem with Steve selling offline to his good customers, but he shouldn't be selling to those that just resell. they are basically the ticket scalpers of the unopened industry. >>
Before you jump to conclusions, I had a couple of old BBCE boxes with damaged wrap. Since I was placing an order at the same time, Steve was gracious enough to re-wrap the old boxes for me. So now, those 2 old BBCE boxes have new wrap. If I chose to sell one, what you would perceive to be the case wouldn't be correct.
My personal opinion is that this is free enterprise. If someone cares to sell something they own, that's their choice. It's my choice to buy or pass. JMO
Doug
1)If you buy sealed wax from BBCE (who BTW buys things and resells them for a profit from others) and resell it as such---BAD
2)If you buy sealed wax from BBCE and open it, then resell the graded/raw cards--JUST FINE
3)If you buy sealed wax from Craigslist/other shop/show/online and resell the sealed wax---JUST FINE
4)If you buy sealed wax from BBCE and hold it for while and then resell it when the market moves---????/where does it end? Do you have to hold something forever that you bought from BBCE? Do you have to donate all the profits back to them because they are having such a hard time making ends meet?
How is any of this reasonable? BBCE buys and sells things to make a profit. If you buy a stock and resell it for a profit (even though you might have bought it from the nicest broker in the world), then kudos to you. Is it ok to buy things from Walmart or Target and resell them? Is it ok to buy a car from a Ford dealer and resell it? Even if he, gasp, gave you a discount? Steve runs a business and might be the nicest guy in the world, but he makes money off us (both by buying and selling) and I don't see any problems with guys making money off of him if they choose to do so.
Is there any evidence to support this other than mygotta's auction which may or may not have come from a group rip?
And if you purchase something from BBCE (regardless of whether it was through a group rip, direct from the BBCE website, on ebay or at a card show), it is now your property and you can do whatever you want with it.
THIS HAS NOTHING to do with steve, he sounds like a great person.
Just something to think about. seriously.
<< <i>To participate in a group rip the only requirement is being a member here.
And if you purchase something from BBCE (regardless of whether it was through a group rip, direct from the BBCE website, on ebay or at a card show), it is now your property and you can do whatever you want with it. >>
+1
You kind of summed up in two lines what it took me about 1000 words to say. Thanks Maurice.