<< <i>Maurice, you're confusing a marketing blurb with auction house rules. >>
Negligence is defined as failure to use reasonable care, resulting in damage or injury to another.
When a company that markets itself as "one of the finest brokers of both vintage and modern graded sportscards" is paid to auction a sports card, and then fails to identify a significant variation when listing it, reasonable care was not exercised. As a result, the person that consigned the sports card was damaged to the tune of thousands of dollars.
How is this not a textbook example of negligence? >>
So is PSA negligent for mislabeling the card? PWCC is just an auctioneer. Why would they have any reason dispute what the leading sports card authenticate put in the label? Again if psa labeled it a 9 and it was cracked out and got a 10 is PWCC negligent because they should have said the card is a 10? The seller has no one to blame but himself. If he knew what he had he should have gotten the label corrected. If he didn't then he should have done a little research himself.
If you promote yourself as a high end vintage card broker it is assumed that you are a true expert in the area and should be informed on issues such as rare variations.
If you read many of the great write ups Brent places on the EBAY listings there is clearly research done on many of the cards to add additional information to promote higher prices.
Suggesting there is negligence is not a personal attack on Brent. In this case he failed to accurately asses the card he was sent and the final result was a significant loss for his consignor.
At a minimum this should serve as a learning experience for PWCC and at a maximum he may have errors and omissions insurance and a payout could be made if the consignor presses the issue.
I would argue that listing the card the way PSA labeled was reasonable care. PSA is the leading sports card authenticator. An auction house should have to research every single graded item that comes through their door. That's the job of the grading company. Again would get be negligent if they sold a psa 9 and it was cracked out and got a 10?
If you promote yourself as a high end vintage card broker it is assumed that you are a true expert in the area and should be informed on issues such as rare variations.
If you read many of the great write ups Brent places on the EBAY listings there is clearly research done on many of the cards to add additional information to promote higher prices.
Suggesting there is negligence is not a personal attack on Brent. In this case he failed to accurately asses the card he was sent and the final result was a significant loss for his consignor.
At a minimum this should serve as a learning experience for PWCC and at a maximum he may have errors and omissions insurance and a payout could be made if the consignor presses the issue. >>
I agree but, Like you said label yourself as a high end broker & want the business then you need to be paying attention to EVERY submission. Im getting really sick of these muti listing ebay sellers using generic mass info in their auctions & when you ask a question not getting a response. Quite possibly there were questions asked if this really was a brown back and never got a response back and just didn't bid high as not to pay out for the chance it is the error card. I can say I have personally asked them questions on a few cards with generic descriptions and never getting a response so I passed on it. Just comparing my experience with this auction
I don't think PWCC should apologize in anyway. They shouldn't be expected to double check every single graded card to see if any new variations exist. If they are the. I would like to send them a 10 thousand count box of 1990 pro set.. Make sure to list any errors or rare variations.
I still the seller has no one to blame but himself. Take responsibility for his own actions and stop trying to sue people. I'm happy for the buyer. He did his research worked hard and it paid off. The seller was lazy didn't do any research and missed out. Tough luck. Work harder next time
My apologies if this has been covered...but do we know that the card was actually consigned? Or was it part of PWCC's inventory that maybe came from a large buy? Its just difficult for me to believe that a consignor would have let that auction roll the way it was listed...if indeed they knew what they had.
<< <i>I still the seller has no one to blame but himself. Take responsibility for his own actions and stop trying to sue people. I'm happy for the buyer. He did his research worked hard and it paid off. The seller was lazy didn't do any research and missed out. Tough luck. Work harder next time >>
You have a point but are neglecting to mention fiduciary responsibilities of the cosigner. I honestly do not believe it was a malicious oversight but they do have an obligation to achieve the highest price possible on behalf of the Seller. It would probably be difficult to prove but it wouldn't be unreasonable if the Seller decides to file a case under E&O. Per their standard auction language:
"As a broker of graded sportscards, our responsibility is the accurate description and delivery of the item advertised, but is not to guarantee how a graded card will be assessed by another grading company."
I'm not a lawyer but the way I read that, the onus is on them to provide an accurate description of the card.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
They did accurately describe the card exactly how it was graded. Plus they included a scan of the front and back. You cannot have a more accurate description than a picture. PWCC can't be expected to research the accuracy of every how every card was graded. I would only hold them responsible if the slab was tampered with and they sold a counterfeit slab. I'm done arguing about since I could really careless about pwcc or the seller. I just don't like it when people make excuses and try to blame someone else for their own laziness. Lets leave this one to Mike to work on as his first sample case in law school
<< <i>So is PSA negligent for mislabeling the card? PWCC is just an auctioneer. Why would they have any reason dispute what the leading sports card authenticate put in the label? >>
PSA didn't mislabel the card.
When PSA started putting the back designations on the label in November 2006, it was announced that only the tobacco company name would be put on the label. No series or factory numbers. Nothing more.
Tens of thousands of PSA graded T206's don't have the back designations on the label. Those are the cards graded prior to November 2006.
Any experienced hobbyist selling/auctioning PSA graded T206's, regardless of when they were graded, knows that the PSA label doesn't provide enough information and that anything of significance about the card should be mentioned. It is absolutely necessary for a consignment seller to do this.
And "one of the finest brokers of both vintage and modern graded sportscards" didn't.
The seller should have gotten it reholdered and not hope the consigner would pick up on the variation. If a psa 8 gets cracked and becomes an 8.5 is the consigner negligent because he doesn't mention the card should be an 8.5 but it was graded before half points? The consigner did his job and listed the card as it was labeled.
<< <i>The seller should have gotten it reholdered and not hope the consigner would pick up on the variation. >>
The card is labeled properly. A reholder wouldn't change anything.
<< <i>The consigner did his job and listed the card as it was labeled. >>
It seems you didn't read my previous post. The PSA label for T206's doesn't provide enough information. >>
Exactly.
It is absolutely common knowledge among those who purchase/collect/sell graded T206's that a great many of them (61,620 to be exact) do not have back designations on the flip. If there's one thing for certain in all this it's that this wasn't PSA/s fault.
For those blaming the consignee, would it change your opinion if you found out that the consignee knew NOTHING about sportscards and had their items left to them by a dead relative?
Ugh..that's a wrench in the spokes! This just reminds me to leave a description of specific cards and what avenue to sell them. Add it as an enclosure to my will and wrap the directions around the slab with a rubber band! I can't imagine my 84 Elway full color proof from the Topps Vault selling for $50........
not Brent's fault IMO ... consignor's have to always proof their items in addition to the auction house.... just a great job by the winning bidder...seems like loads of people missed it as well....
A better story would had the consignor sell it as he did to a "friend" or shilling account, take the "value" from the card and then resell it again.
BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>If the variation was so important, and not part of the PSA label, than the seller should have included instructions for the consignor to describe the item as such. >>
And you don't think "one of the finest brokers of both vintage and modern graded sportscards" should have recognized the variation? Seriously?
PWCC has listed thousands of PSA graded T206's. PWCC knows that the PSA label doesn't provide enough info. Here is an example:
You'll notice that PWCC recognized and mentioned the FACTORY 649 OVERPRINT. That's not on the PSA label. And it should be noted that Factory 649 overprints are pretty common and only command a tiny premium (maybe 10-20%). PWCC still put it in the title.
<< <i>not Brent's fault IMO ... consignor's have to always proof their items in addition to the auction house.... just a great job by the winning bidder...seems like loads of people missed it as well.... >>
I'm guessing loads of people missed it because Brown Old Mill wasn't in the title or description. Rick, how would you handle someone looking to consign that wasn't involved in the hobby in any capacity? Would you only describe the items as the consignee would or would you use your knowledge and experience to maximize the return?
And my previous comment about the consignees situation shouldn't be misconstrued as fact, I was simply laying out a hypothetical. People turn to AHs all the time when they've had a collection dropped in their lap and don't know anything about sportscards. Should all of those people become experts in the field of every hobby nook and cranny before they sell the items that were left to them? Of course not. This happens all the time. AHs are always getting contacted by people that don't know what they have and are looking for the AH to know. Hell, that's part of the reason people consign items in the first place. They believe the consignor is going to best represent their items for maximum return.
How does a consignor know for certain that a consignee has any level of information about the items they are consigning? If I consign a card to someone and don't mention there's a massive crease across the front and wax stains on the back is the consignor off the hook if they don't mention them either?
<< <i>not Brent's fault IMO ... consignor's have to always proof their items in addition to the auction house.... just a great job by the winning bidder...seems like loads of people missed it as well.... >>
I'm guessing loads of people missed it because Brown Old Mill wasn't in the title or description. Rick, how would you handle someone looking to consign that wasn't involved in the hobby in any capacity? Would you only describe the items as the consignee would or would you use your knowledge and experience to maximize the return?
And my previous comment about the consignees situation shouldn't be misconstrued as fact, I was simply laying out a hypothetical. People turn to AHs all the time when they've had a collection dropped in their lap and don't know anything about sportscards. Should all of those people become experts in the field of every hobby nook and cranny before they sell the items that were left to them? Of course not. This happens all the time. AHs are always getting contacted by people that don't know what they have and are looking for the AH to know. Hell, that's part of the reason people consign items in the first place. They believe the consignor is going to best represent their items for maximum return.
How does a consignor know for certain that a consignee has any level of information about the items they are consigning? If I consign a card to someone and don't mention there's a massive crease across the front and wax stains on the back is the consignor off the hook if they don't mention them either? >>
He would most likely have his "guy" bid/buy it on the cheap and then re-sell it for his own profit. That's what they admittedly do with "undergraded" cards that they consign.
I was going to ask a question but it could be misinterpreted, so I'll just....
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
I was driving through southern Utah a few years back, and I saw a restaurant that had a sign that proclaimed that they served the world's best apple pie. If I went into the restaurant, plopped down my $3.75, tried the pie, determined that, although tasty, it was not the world's best, would I have a case against said restaurant?
Rick, how would you handle someone looking to consign that wasn't involved in the hobby in any capacity? Would you only describe the items as the consignee would or would you use your knowledge and experience to maximize the return? ==> I write all the descriptions, I use stickies and give to my staff when they post.... some consignors, clarify special points , low pops, etc...
<< <i>Rick, how would you handle someone looking to consign that wasn't involved in the hobby in any capacity? Would you only describe the items as the consignee would or would you use your knowledge and experience to maximize the return? ==> I write all the descriptions, I use stickies and give to my staff when they post.... some consignors, clarify special points , low pops, etc... >>
So, lets say this person from outside the hobby sends you a 1990 Topps Frank Thomas card to auction on ebay. You put together the listing with the title "1990 Topps Frank Thomas rookie card". Before listing it, you send a copy of the listing to the person to make sure everything is ok. He/she says "looks great!" and you then list it on ebay.
The card sells for $4.
Several weeks later you learn that it was the NNOF variation.
You're not at fault?
The winning bidder did a great job?
Everything is ok because everybody else missed it?
Why should the consigner care about the level of knowledge the consignee has? That's ridiculous. Do they charge different fees based on how much the consignee knows? It's a business not a handholding operation. Pwcc did their job and listed the card the way it was slabbed. It is completely unreasonable to expect them to double check for various different varieties that may or may not be listed on the slab. If they started to do this where would you draw the line? They only have to double check t206, what about panini Valida backs?, what about Lampo Text backs ect... Now if the seller asked to note the variation and pwcc didn't then he has a legitimate argument...
<< <i>Why should the consigner care about the level of knowledge the consignee has? That's ridiculous. Do they charge different fees based on how much the consignee knows? It's a business not a handholding operation. Pwcc did their job and listed the card the way it was slabbed. It is completely unreasonable to expect them to double check for various different varieties that may or may not be listed on the slab. If they started to do this where would you draw the line? They only have to double check t206, what about panini Valida backs?, what about Lampo Text backs ect... Now if the seller asked to note the variation and pwcc didn't then he has a legitimate argument... >>
Haven't they set a precedent by listing variations that weren't on the slab labels for other cards?
<< <i>...seems like loads of people missed it as well.... >>
this.
the consignor may have missed it, but how do you explain dozens upon dozens of potential bidders with presumed expertise missing it as well.
it would have taken only TWO experienced people to get it and this thread never happens. >>
Finally, some rational thinking.
In addition to placing quotation marks inside of periods, Maurice has always had a penchant for castigating Brent. Sans the fortuitous buyer, every other individual in the hobby had to back off for this to transpire. You know, a universal faux pas. Let that one marinate for a few. If there's still no clarity, then by all means, continue to flog someone who actually had a vested interest in the outcome.
Don't worry. The person who bought it is on NET54 and said he had a bid of thousands on it, so no one else could have gotten such a steal. All anyone could have done is bumped up the price for him.
<< <i>Why should the consigner care about the level of knowledge the consignee has? That's ridiculous. >>
That's kind of my point. Whether a consignee is an expert or completely ignorant to the intricacies of the hobby it doesn't matter. The consignor should be examining all items passing through their hands and describing them to the best of their abilities to maximize the return. That's part of the benefit of consigning items instead of selling them yourself.
Eagles33, if someone not familiar with our hobby in any capacity contacts a consignor and says "I've got these items, I don't know anything about them. Can you sell them for me?" should the consignor describe the auctions only as the consignee (who knows nothing) would? Is it the consignee's fault if an item is improperly described?
The consignor coddling here is incredible. PWCC made a mistake. I'm not saying that they should pay the consignee what the card is worth or anything, but for others to act like they didn't do anything wrong is just ludicrous. They cost the consignee thousands of dollars. They have stated variations not listed on the slabs in the past and have set a precedent. That and they specifically state that it is their job to maximize end prices. They messed up and cost a consignee a ton of money. End of story.
I recently consigned with Brent and in his submission form you enter the item and it's description. In my case, the description that I used is what was used on the Auction title. Therefore, the onus fell on me to accurately describe my items and what details I would like that make them stand out. Throughout the process, Brent had great communication and let's you know when the images are uploaded and the auction is ready to be viewed prior to listing. At that point, you are asked to email him to make any changes to the listing prior to going live. It seems to me that in this case, the consignor ignored all of the communication and did not preview the listing or else it would have been rightfully changed. Place the blame where blame is due, with the consignor. Kudos to the buyer for his keen eye.
Would forums on the Internet exist without people bickering over trivialities that don't impact them whatsoever while posing dozens of hypothetical situations?
What if the consignor is happy with the $50 they got for the card since they picked it up at a garage sale for $2 and everybody won?
Maybe the consignee is happy with $50 when they could have gotten thousands? Really? Yeah, I'm sure they will be just thrilled when/if they find out. lol
<< <i>Maybe the consignee is happy with $50 when they could have gotten thousands? Really? Yeah, I'm sure they will be just thrilled when/if they find out. lol >>
If they didn't know before, it's unlikely they would ever find out it's worth thousands, unless they were trolling sports card forums.
<< <i>What if the consignor is happy with the $50 they got for the card since they picked it up at a garage sale for $2 and everybody won? >>
I guarantee you, if the consignor discovered that they left $9950 on the table due to a mistake, they would not be "happy". One can only hope that the guy who consigned the card didn't know and never finds out.
For all you Monday morning qb's who obviously would never have made a mistake of this magnitude, why don't you put all your collective heads together and build a better mousetrap? Yeah, that's what I thought.
<< <i>For all you Monday morning qb's who obviously would never have made a mistake of this magnitude, why don't you put all your collective heads together and build a better mousetrap? Yeah, that's what I thought. >>
Why are you so angry that people are simply talking about a fellow hobbyist potentially losing out on thousands of dollars because their consignor didn't add very important item specifics to their listing... on a sportscard message board no less?
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Maurice, you're confusing a marketing blurb with auction house rules. >>
Negligence is defined as failure to use reasonable care, resulting in damage or injury to another.
When a company that markets itself as "one of the finest brokers of both vintage and modern graded sportscards" is paid to auction a sports card, and then fails to identify a significant variation when listing it, reasonable care was not exercised. As a result, the person that consigned the sports card was damaged to the tune of thousands of dollars.
How is this not a textbook example of negligence? >>
So is PSA negligent for mislabeling the card? PWCC is just an auctioneer. Why would they have any reason dispute what the leading sports card authenticate put in the label? Again if psa labeled it a 9 and it was cracked out and got a 10 is PWCC negligent because they should have said the card is a 10? The seller has no one to blame but himself. If he knew what he had he should have gotten the label corrected. If he didn't then he should have done a little research himself.
If you promote yourself as a high end vintage card broker it is assumed that you are a true expert in the area and should be informed on issues such as rare variations.
If you read many of the great write ups Brent places on the EBAY listings there is clearly research done on many of the cards to add additional information to promote higher prices.
Suggesting there is negligence is not a personal attack on Brent. In this case he failed to accurately asses the card he was sent and the final result was a significant loss for his consignor.
At a minimum this should serve as a learning experience for PWCC and at a maximum he may have errors and omissions insurance and a payout could be made if the consignor presses the issue.
Pop Report
<< <i>There is negligence plain and simple.
If you promote yourself as a high end vintage card broker it is assumed that you are a true expert in the area and should be informed on issues such as rare variations.
If you read many of the great write ups Brent places on the EBAY listings there is clearly research done on many of the cards to add additional information to promote higher prices.
Suggesting there is negligence is not a personal attack on Brent. In this case he failed to accurately asses the card he was sent and the final result was a significant loss for his consignor.
At a minimum this should serve as a learning experience for PWCC and at a maximum he may have errors and omissions insurance and a payout could be made if the consignor presses the issue. >>
I agree but, Like you said label yourself as a high end broker & want the business then you need to be paying attention to EVERY submission. Im getting really sick of these muti listing ebay sellers using generic mass info in their auctions & when you ask a question not getting a response. Quite possibly there were questions asked if this really was a brown back and never got a response back and just didn't bid high as not to pay out for the chance it is the error card. I can say I have personally asked them questions on a few cards with generic descriptions and never getting a response so I passed on it. Just comparing my experience with this auction
ALL MY PSA SETS
<< <i>Not trying to be a jerk, but that comparison doesn't make sense. >>
I AGREE, they wouldn't take the pro set
ALL MY PSA SETS
the consignor, consignee and PSA...
I dont think any dollar value could be disputed at this point, especially with the state of the hobby with tougher items...
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
<< <i>I still the seller has no one to blame but himself. Take responsibility for his own actions and stop trying to sue people. I'm happy for the buyer. He did his research worked hard and it paid off. The seller was lazy didn't do any research and missed out. Tough luck. Work harder next time >>
You have a point but are neglecting to mention fiduciary responsibilities of the cosigner. I honestly do not believe it was a malicious oversight but they do have an obligation to achieve the highest price possible on behalf of the Seller. It would probably be difficult to prove but it wouldn't be unreasonable if the Seller decides to file a case under E&O. Per their standard auction language:
"As a broker of graded sportscards, our responsibility is the accurate description and delivery of the item advertised, but is not to guarantee how a graded card will be assessed by another grading company."
I'm not a lawyer but the way I read that, the onus is on them to provide an accurate description of the card.
<< <i>So is PSA negligent for mislabeling the card? PWCC is just an auctioneer. Why would they have any reason dispute what the leading sports card authenticate put in the label? >>
PSA didn't mislabel the card.
When PSA started putting the back designations on the label in November 2006, it was announced that only the tobacco company name would be put on the label. No series or factory numbers. Nothing more.
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=548617
Therefore, this card is not mislabeled.
Tens of thousands of PSA graded T206's don't have the back designations on the label. Those are the cards graded prior to November 2006.
Any experienced hobbyist selling/auctioning PSA graded T206's, regardless of when they were graded, knows that the PSA label doesn't provide enough information and that anything of significance about the card should be mentioned. It is absolutely necessary for a consignment seller to do this.
And "one of the finest brokers of both vintage and modern graded sportscards" didn't.
<< <i>The seller should have gotten it reholdered and not hope the consigner would pick up on the variation. >>
The card is labeled properly. A reholder wouldn't change anything.
<< <i>The consigner did his job and listed the card as it was labeled. >>
It seems you didn't read my previous post. The PSA label for T206's doesn't provide enough information.
<< <i> I'm done arguing about since I could really careless about pwcc or the seller. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>The seller should have gotten it reholdered and not hope the consigner would pick up on the variation. >>
The card is labeled properly. A reholder wouldn't change anything.
<< <i>The consigner did his job and listed the card as it was labeled. >>
It seems you didn't read my previous post. The PSA label for T206's doesn't provide enough information. >>
Exactly.
It is absolutely common knowledge among those who purchase/collect/sell graded T206's that a great many of them (61,620 to be exact) do not have back designations on the flip. If there's one thing for certain in all this it's that this wasn't PSA/s fault.
ALL MY PSA SETS
consignor's have to always proof their items in addition to the auction house....
just a great job by the winning bidder...seems like loads of people missed it as well....
Ebay Store:
Probstein123
phone: 973 747 6304
email: rickprobstein1@gmail.com
Probstein123 is actively accepting CONSIGNMENTS !!
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>If the variation was so important, and not part of the PSA label, than the seller should have included instructions for the consignor to describe the item as such. >>
And you don't think "one of the finest brokers of both vintage and modern graded sportscards" should have recognized the variation? Seriously?
PWCC has listed thousands of PSA graded T206's. PWCC knows that the PSA label doesn't provide enough info. Here is an example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400540854101?orig_cvip=true
Auction title: 1909-11 T206 Tubby Spencer SWEET CAPORAL FACTORY 649 OVERPRINT PSA 5 EX (PWCC)
You'll notice that PWCC recognized and mentioned the FACTORY 649 OVERPRINT. That's not on the PSA label. And it should be noted that Factory 649 overprints are pretty common and only command a tiny premium (maybe 10-20%). PWCC still put it in the title.
But PWCC fails to identify a 5 figure rarity?
<< <i>not Brent's fault IMO ...
consignor's have to always proof their items in addition to the auction house....
just a great job by the winning bidder...seems like loads of people missed it as well.... >>
I'm guessing loads of people missed it because Brown Old Mill wasn't in the title or description. Rick, how would you handle someone looking to consign that wasn't involved in the hobby in any capacity? Would you only describe the items as the consignee would or would you use your knowledge and experience to maximize the return?
And my previous comment about the consignees situation shouldn't be misconstrued as fact, I was simply laying out a hypothetical. People turn to AHs all the time when they've had a collection dropped in their lap and don't know anything about sportscards. Should all of those people become experts in the field of every hobby nook and cranny before they sell the items that were left to them? Of course not. This happens all the time. AHs are always getting contacted by people that don't know what they have and are looking for the AH to know. Hell, that's part of the reason people consign items in the first place. They believe the consignor is going to best represent their items for maximum return.
How does a consignor know for certain that a consignee has any level of information about the items they are consigning? If I consign a card to someone and don't mention there's a massive crease across the front and wax stains on the back is the consignor off the hook if they don't mention them either?
<< <i>
<< <i>not Brent's fault IMO ...
consignor's have to always proof their items in addition to the auction house....
just a great job by the winning bidder...seems like loads of people missed it as well.... >>
I'm guessing loads of people missed it because Brown Old Mill wasn't in the title or description. Rick, how would you handle someone looking to consign that wasn't involved in the hobby in any capacity? Would you only describe the items as the consignee would or would you use your knowledge and experience to maximize the return?
And my previous comment about the consignees situation shouldn't be misconstrued as fact, I was simply laying out a hypothetical. People turn to AHs all the time when they've had a collection dropped in their lap and don't know anything about sportscards. Should all of those people become experts in the field of every hobby nook and cranny before they sell the items that were left to them? Of course not. This happens all the time. AHs are always getting contacted by people that don't know what they have and are looking for the AH to know. Hell, that's part of the reason people consign items in the first place. They believe the consignor is going to best represent their items for maximum return.
How does a consignor know for certain that a consignee has any level of information about the items they are consigning? If I consign a card to someone and don't mention there's a massive crease across the front and wax stains on the back is the consignor off the hook if they don't mention them either? >>
He would most likely have his "guy" bid/buy it on the cheap and then re-sell it for his own profit. That's what they admittedly do with "undergraded" cards that they consign.
<< <i>...seems like loads of people missed it as well.... >>
this.
the consignor may have missed it, but how do you explain dozens upon dozens of potential bidders with presumed expertise missing it as well.
it would have taken only TWO experienced people to get it and this thread never happens.
==> I write all the descriptions, I use stickies and give to my staff when they post....
some consignors, clarify special points , low pops, etc...
Ebay Store:
Probstein123
phone: 973 747 6304
email: rickprobstein1@gmail.com
Probstein123 is actively accepting CONSIGNMENTS !!
<< <i>Rick, how would you handle someone looking to consign that wasn't involved in the hobby in any capacity? Would you only describe the items as the consignee would or would you use your knowledge and experience to maximize the return?
==> I write all the descriptions, I use stickies and give to my staff when they post....
some consignors, clarify special points , low pops, etc... >>
So, lets say this person from outside the hobby sends you a 1990 Topps Frank Thomas card to auction on ebay. You put together the listing with the title "1990 Topps Frank Thomas rookie card". Before listing it, you send a copy of the listing to the person to make sure everything is ok. He/she says "looks great!" and you then list it on ebay.
The card sells for $4.
Several weeks later you learn that it was the NNOF variation.
You're not at fault?
The winning bidder did a great job?
Everything is ok because everybody else missed it?
<< <i>Why should the consigner care about the level of knowledge the consignee has? That's ridiculous. Do they charge different fees based on how much the consignee knows? It's a business not a handholding operation. Pwcc did their job and listed the card the way it was slabbed. It is completely unreasonable to expect them to double check for various different varieties that may or may not be listed on the slab. If they started to do this where would you draw the line? They only have to double check t206, what about panini Valida backs?, what about Lampo Text backs ect... Now if the seller asked to note the variation and pwcc didn't then he has a legitimate argument... >>
Haven't they set a precedent by listing variations that weren't on the slab labels for other cards?
<< <i>
<< <i>...seems like loads of people missed it as well.... >>
this.
the consignor may have missed it, but how do you explain dozens upon dozens of potential bidders with presumed expertise missing it as well.
it would have taken only TWO experienced people to get it and this thread never happens. >>
Finally, some rational thinking.
In addition to placing quotation marks inside of periods, Maurice has always had a penchant for castigating Brent. Sans the fortuitous buyer, every other individual in the hobby had to back off for this to transpire. You know, a universal faux pas. Let that one marinate for a few. If there's still no clarity, then by all means, continue to flog someone who actually had a vested interest in the outcome.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
<< <i>I feel nauseated. >>
Don't worry. The person who bought it is on NET54 and said he had a bid of thousands on it, so no one else could have gotten such a steal. All anyone could have done is bumped up the price for him.
<< <i>Why should the consigner care about the level of knowledge the consignee has? That's ridiculous. >>
That's kind of my point. Whether a consignee is an expert or completely ignorant to the intricacies of the hobby it doesn't matter. The consignor should be examining all items passing through their hands and describing them to the best of their abilities to maximize the return. That's part of the benefit of consigning items instead of selling them yourself.
Eagles33, if someone not familiar with our hobby in any capacity contacts a consignor and says "I've got these items, I don't know anything about them. Can you sell them for me?" should the consignor describe the auctions only as the consignee (who knows nothing) would? Is it the consignee's fault if an item is improperly described?
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Would forums on the Internet exist without people bickering over trivialities that don't impact them whatsoever while posing dozens of hypothetical situations?
What if the consignor is happy with the $50 they got for the card since they picked it up at a garage sale for $2 and everybody won?
<< <i>Maybe the consignee is happy with $50 when they could have gotten thousands? Really? Yeah, I'm sure they will be just thrilled when/if they find out. lol >>
If they didn't know before, it's unlikely they would ever find out it's worth thousands, unless they were trolling sports card forums.
<< <i>What if the consignor is happy with the $50 they got for the card since they picked it up at a garage sale for $2 and everybody won? >>
I guarantee you, if the consignor discovered that they left $9950 on the table due to a mistake, they would not be "happy". One can only hope that the guy who consigned the card didn't know and never finds out.
$9950 is a very significant chunk of change.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>For all you Monday morning qb's who obviously would never have made a mistake of this magnitude, why don't you put all your collective heads together and build a better mousetrap? Yeah, that's what I thought. >>
Why are you so angry that people are simply talking about a fellow hobbyist potentially losing out on thousands of dollars because their consignor didn't add very important item specifics to their listing... on a sportscard message board no less?