These dealers are complete scum

edmundfitzgerald

So these autographs dealers videotape a private signing with Johny Manziel so the autos would pass PSA/DNA.

Then they go to ESPN and give them this video to provide evidence that Manziel accepted money which is against NCAA policy.

Any "dealer" of sports merchandise should be sent to jail if they ask a collegiate athlete to take money for autographs.
These guys know it's against the law. They are professionals at their craft.

It's unreal that there aren't any laws to punish these guys.

Oh by the way, I'm not a Texas A&M fan or Manziel fan. ESPN article

alifaxwa2

<< <i> Any "dealer" of sports merchandise should be sent to jail if they ask a collegiate athlete to take money for autographs.
>>


Stupidest comment ever.

alifaxwa2

<< <i>These guys know it's against the law. They are professionals at their craft. >>


Law no, rules yes.

swartz1

Manziel is a Saint...

no1cp

Coming from the great state of Ohio, I am naturally an Ohio State fan. What has absolutely cracked me up about this whole Johnny Football thing is the backwardness coming from the media in regards to this story. When the OSU players stupidly/wrongly traded in memorabilia for tattoos, every media outlet blasted them for it. Lack of institutional control was thrown around by everybody.

Then this story comes out and within the past 2 days I've lost count of the amount of times that Sportscenter, ESPN (in general), Jim Rome, etc etc have talked about how the rule, itself, is what needs to change. That these are poor college athletes who should be paid.

If we've learned anything over the course of the last month, it's that Johnny Manziel is an idiot. He's a naive 20 year old college kid who keeps tripping over his own feet, but the media still loves him.

Those are my two pennies. Sorry if I offended anyone.

dtkk49a

Yes, there is a slimy side to the hobby.

edmundfitzgerald

<< <i>

<< <i> Any "dealer" of sports merchandise should be sent to jail if they ask a collegiate athlete to take money for autographs.
>>


Stupidest comment ever. >>




I guess you're all for allowing grown men to take advantage of kids for monetary gain.

edmundfitzgerald

<< <i>

If we've learned anything over the course of the last month, it's that Johnny Manziel is an idiot. He's a naive 20 year old college kid who keeps tripping over his own feet, but the media still loves him.

. >>




The media and most college football fans love him too. He's the only freshman to ever win the Heismann. He is a joy to watch play football. This is really stretching it, but
he has a little bit of Babe Ruth in him. He gets a lot of positive attention because of his greatness on the field, and he also gets attention because of his crazy lifestyle off
the field.

alifaxwa2

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i> Any "dealer" of sports merchandise should be sent to jail if they ask a collegiate athlete to take money for autographs.
>>


Stupidest comment ever. >>



I guess you're all for allowing grown men to take advantage of kids for monetary gain. >>


The ADULTS can say NO.

stown

<< <i>These guys know it's against the law. They are professionals at their craft. >>



Uh, which law did the autograph brokers break? I'm guessing you really meant to say Manziel violated NCAA rules instead.

BTW - Johnny was not taken advantage of, he comes from a *wealthy* family and is financially set for life.

Foo3112

He wanted money for his Rims is what I read, but so what. If someone wants to pay ME thousands for my signature, so be it. I'm sure he has no problem signing for adults and kids but when he’s stuck in a hotel room for a few hrs signing, he's working (although easy work) but why not get paid? I don’t see anything wrong and I think the rule should be changed. Let them make their money. Why does everyone else get to cash in on his auto but the one actually signing? This isn’t a big deal either and I hope those who liked him still do because EVERY player has done this. Let’s not be naive either.

CubsKiller99

Where does PSA stand on authenticating signatures for players that are not allowed by the NCAA to do so for money?

edmundfitzgerald

<< <i>

<< <i>These guys know it's against the law. They are professionals at their craft. >>



Uh, which law did the autograph brokers break? . >>



Yeah, I guess I went over the line with the breaking the law stuff, but these guys are slime.

They said they videotaped Johnny just for authenticating purposes.
Then they do a 180 and use that videotape against him after Manziel made money for them.
On top of this, they asked Johnny to do something that was against NCAA violations.

BunchOBull

PSA has no clue as to what premise the items were signed, nor is it there prerogative to know. This isn't illegal activity.

itzagoner

<< <i>Where does PSA stand on authenticating signatures for players that are not allowed by the NCAA to do so for money? >>



until they become a legal channel for prosecution of college athletes, i doubt it would matter.

they get paid to grade and authenticate.

edmundfitzgerald

<< <i>Where does PSA stand on authenticating signatures for players that are not allowed by the NCAA to do so for money? >>



That is a question that Joe Orlando should respond to.

But I would think PSA/DNA would authenticate a Johnny Manziel signed helmet only because PSA/DNA does not know if Johnny signed it for cash, or for free.

alifaxwa2

<< <i>

<< <i>Where does PSA stand on authenticating signatures for players that are not allowed by the NCAA to do so for money? >>



That is a question that Joe Orlando should respond to.

But I would think PSA/DNA would authenticate a Johnny Manziel signed helmet only because PSA/DNA does not know if Johnny signed it for cash, or for free. >>


Personally, if someone wants PSA/DNA to authenticate something, I see no reason why they shouldn't if the can.
Lot of PSA DNA Manziels on eBay

edmundfitzgerald

According to these completed EBAY auctions, it appears the kid should easily be pocketing $100 per auto.

EBAY

no1cp

<< <i>I guess you're all for allowing grown men to take advantage of kids for monetary gain. >>

Welcome to college athletics.

jeffcbay

<< <i>Coming from the great state of Ohio, I am naturally an Ohio State fan. What has absolutely cracked me up about this whole Johnny Football thing is the backwardness coming from the media in regards to this story. When the OSU players stupidly/wrongly traded in memorabilia for tattoos, every media outlet blasted them for it. Lack of institutional control was thrown around by everybody.

Then this story comes out and within the past 2 days I've lost count of the amount of times that Sportscenter, ESPN (in general), Jim Rome, etc etc have talked about how the rule, itself, is what needs to change. That these are poor college athletes who should be paid. >>



+1

The double standard is mind-boggling.

jeffcbay

Silly wabbit, nobody is allowed to make money from NCAA players except the NCAA.

BunchOBull

I for one understand the rules; these kids are playing football (or whatever sport) for a free education. More than any professional athlete, a college athlete is a direct reflection of the institution they represent because their "payment" is the privilege of a degree from that institution while playing a game they love. Throwing cash at them for any reason is a conflict of this understanding because it changes the scope of the obligation.

That said, I believe that any item sold baring the name or likeness of a given player should have a percentage of the proceeds set aside in a trust, accessible only after a player has lost eligibility for years of service or has suffered a career ending injury. Should a player lose eligibility or his/her scholarship for behavior non-befitting or illegal activity, they lose the trust.

jeffcbay

By that rationale, if a college student is paying his/her own way for their college education, and happens to be playing sports for that college, should they then be allowed to profit from their fame?

BunchOBull

<< <i>By that rationale, if a college student is paying his/her own way for their college education, and happens to be playing sports for that college, should they then be allowed to profit from their fame? >>



Unfortunately, non-scholarship players would be the ones to suffer; however, if they're famous enough to be sought in the hobby world, in all likelihood, they're scholarship. For those non-scholarship players that fit the description, their proceeds should go toward paying their education, and any leftovers would be placed in their respective trusts.

jeffcbay

I like the trust idea.

LarkinCollector

<< <i>I like the trust idea. >>


+1, though I personally have no issue with college kids making money. They might learn how to manage it a bit, before they hit the big payday and go crazy.

jeffcbay

<< <i>

<< <i>I like the trust idea. >>


+1, though I personally have no issue with college kids making money. They might learn how to manage it a bit, before they hit the big payday and go crazy. >>



Again, I wish people felt that way when they were penalizing the Buckeyes.

stown

It doesn't matter to me if college athletes get paid or not. If the NCAA wants to change their 'amateur' status going forward, so be it.

However, the people that are complaining about the perceived fairness today will be doing the same in about 10 years when 4 or 5 schools completely dominate the payrolls. $100 handshakes have been going on for as long as most of us have been alive but to legalize it, they'll open Pandora's Box and it will only be a matter of time before we hear, "The University of X are the NCAA version of the Yankees. It's not fair!1!"

: popcorn :

jeffcbay

itzagoner

if a student is paying his/her way through college, that student quite likely would only be signing checks to pay for food and utilities, not footballs and hats.

BunchOBull

On a personal level, I see no problem with making money either; but I understand why direct payment will never be in place. Collegiate sports teams, much like the military, must be ran with a certain level of discipline. These adults are still kids, with kid wants and kid dreams, a quick buck leaves them vulnerable to outside influence that conflicts with the discipline within the program. It also creates classes of players amongst whom are supposed to be equals and between whom no room for resentment can stand.

From the standpoint of brain physiology, there is really no difference between a 17 year old in high school and a 20 year old in college; both are still lacking in reasoning ability due to a brain that is, quite literally, still growing. There is a reason young people make silly choices despite "knowing" better. One might argue that a player's mistake is their mistake to live with, but, I assure you, a cash-hungry collegiate sports system would explode in terms of the number of documented "mistakes" that were made. Programs would fall apart from the inside out...it would be highly detrimental.

That said, in cases like Manziel's, I think a first offense statute should be in place...even make him "work off" his gains in some way if they want; but a first offense that is arguably offensive shouldn't ruin the kid.

jeffcbay

You mean to tell me there is no such thing as a college football player who doesn't have a scholarship?

stown

Hook 'em!

jeffcbay

<< <i>That said, in cases like Manziel's, I think a first offense statute should be in place...even make him "work off" his gains in some way if they want; but a first offense that is arguably offensive shouldn't ruin the kid. >>



Again, see the Buckeyes "Tattoo Gate".

fergie23

So 5 black OSU players sell memorabilia and get free benefits and they are pilloried in the media and elsewhere. A white QB from Texas asks for money to sign autographs and suddenly everyone is defending him and saying how unfair the NCAA rules are. Johnny knew the rules and he chose to break them. Assuming he actually got paid they should revoke his eligibility and move on.

Robb

CubsKiller99

Everyone knows that the sports memorabilia industry is rife with con men, chiseler and scumbags.

If PSA is authenticating material that Manziel "may or may not have been paid" to sign,
wouldn't it just be better to refuse to authenticate items for NCAA players when they're
still in school and not potentially contribute to this kind of controversy?

The PSA vetting is what gets Manziel the real money here. Without that it's just
somebody's signature on an item.

I see a lot of gray here and not black/white per the strictly legal standpoint.

When PSA has an opportunity to improve the industry's reputation they should take it.

jeffcbay

<< <i>So 5 black OSU players sell memorabilia and get free benefits and they are pilloried in the media and elsewhere. A white QB from Texas asks for money to sign autographs and suddenly everyone is defending him and saying how unfair the NCAA rules are. Johnny knew the rules and he chose to break them. Assuming he actually got paid they should revoke his eligibility and move on.

Robb >>



They should also take away wins, bowl eligibility, and scholarships.

BunchOBull

<< <i>

<< <i>That said, in cases like Manziel's, I think a first offense statute should be in place...even make him "work off" his gains in some way if they want; but a first offense that is arguably offensive shouldn't ruin the kid. >>



Again, see the Buckeyes "Tattoo Gate". >>



lol my assessment is across the board to include "that" team you've got up there. I'm a Hurricanes fan; no school has a football team comprised of more poor, inner city kids trying to make life better than Miami...I know the heartache.

ClockworkAngel

It's so easy for everyone to start ripping Manziel as an A-Hole, douchebag, etc when we're not in his shoes. The kid was 19 and is 20 when his world changed so dramatically and so quickly. How would I react as a 19 year old to everyone wanting to give me money, women, alcohol, weed, freebies, etc. The media scrutiny on him is unprecedented with cell phones, hidden cameras, etc. Every single thing he does is watched. How would anyone react as a 19 or 20 year old to that life?

He is by no means a saint and clearly needs some help/therapy/guidance, but all the name calling and criticizing is hypocritical. Johnny Manziel's life and situation is unprecedented

Also, I get that college kids should probably see compensation but how would that look? What would be the financial landscape of starting to pay all college athletes? Would each university get a cap? Would they also be doing their academics while getting paid for sports? Are all high school athletes free agents simply going to the highest bidder? Again, it's easy from the outside to talk about everything that's wrong but actually putting together a plan that works is easier said than done

edmundfitzgerald

<< <i>So 5 black OSU players sell memorabilia and get free benefits and they are pilloried in the media and elsewhere. A white QB from Texas asks for money to sign autographs and suddenly everyone is defending him and saying how unfair the NCAA rules are. .

Robb >>




For the love of God, I can't believe you are entering race into this conversation.

Johnny football is being protected because the kid is the most amazing QB talent to hit college football ever.
When is the last time you saw a freshman win the Heismann ? Answer.....Never

We want to see this kid on the field, playing football, exciting fans, and bringing excitement to the game we enjoy watching.

This has absolutely nothing to do with race, and shame on anyone who may even think it has anything to do with that.

stown

<< <i>

<< <i>So 5 black OSU players sell memorabilia and get free benefits and they are pilloried in the media and elsewhere. A white QB from Texas asks for money to sign autographs and suddenly everyone is defending him and saying how unfair the NCAA rules are. Johnny knew the rules and he chose to break them. Assuming he actually got paid they should revoke his eligibility and move on.

Robb >>



They should also take away wins, bowl eligibility, and scholarships. >>



IF the reports are true he took money for autographs before and after the 'Bama game, I agree with you 100%.

edited to add: My agreement was in regards to Jeff's comment, not the one he replied to.

no1cp

@Clockwork Angel -- To be fair, I'm the only one who actually called him any names. I called him an "idiot", because, well, he's acting like an idiot. Perhaps I should've restrained myself, but the kid broke a rule, as has been mentioned many times. I think the thread has gone from being about Manziel's action(s) to the "not a big deal" mentality going on in the media over him breaking the rule.

jeffcbay

He'll be bagging groceries in five years.

Oh, and they should also run the coach and AD out of the school.

edmundfitzgerald

<< <i>He'll be bagging groceries in five years.

. >>



Can't remember a Heismann winner who ever bagged groceries.

Although Kurt Warner was a Super Bowl winner who bagged groceries (or stocked shelves) beforehand.

no1cp

<< <i>Johnny football is being protected because the kid is the most amazing QB talent to hit college football ever.
When is the last time you saw a freshman win the Heismann ? Answer.....Never >>

I don't want anyone to be "protected" by the media. I want them to report on facts. He (allegedly) broke NCAA rules and should be punished accordingly. It shouldn't matter if he was Joe Smith 3rd string OLineman or Johnny Football.

BunchOBull

<< <i>He'll be bagging groceries in five years.

Oh, and they should also run the coach and AD out of the school. >>



I don't agree with that part though. I've never understood the mentality of cleaning house after "scandal." It's one thing if the authority in question was knowingly and wittingly allowing infractions to occur; it's another if they were blind to it.

Cleaning house tends to be more for show, it says, "he look how proactive we're being, we're doing something about the problem," while never really fixing the problem, and all too often eliminating the most qualified candidate.

itzagoner

hi Ryan Leaf!

LarkinCollector

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I like the trust idea. >>


+1, though I personally have no issue with college kids making money. They might learn how to manage it a bit, before they hit the big payday and go crazy. >>



Again, I wish people felt that way when they were penalizing the Buckeyes. >>



I always have felt that way, but this is far from the first time media double-standards have come into play.

jeffcbay

<< <i>I've never understood the mentality of cleaning house after "scandal." It's one thing if the authority in question was knowingly and wittingly allowing infractions to occur; it's another if they were blind to it.

Cleaning house tends to be more for show, it says, "he look how proactive we're being, we're doing something about the problem," while never really fixing the problem, and all too often eliminating the most qualified candidate. >>



I agree, but that's what happened in Ohio State, and I will continue to beat it into the ground because that's just how ridiculous it is/was and how similar the two stories are.

LarkinCollector

<< <i>From the standpoint of brain physiology, there is really no difference between a 17 year old in high school and a 20 year old in college; both are still lacking in reasoning ability due to a brain that is, quite literally, still growing. >>



But by 22 years old, they're magically ready to handle multi-million dollar payouts to join the NFL (MLB, NBA, whatever) when they've never learned to manage smaller amounts of money?

BunchOBull

<< <i>

<< <i>From the standpoint of brain physiology, there is really no difference between a 17 year old in high school and a 20 year old in college; both are still lacking in reasoning ability due to a brain that is, quite literally, still growing. >>



But by 22 years old, they're magically ready to handle multi-million dollar payouts to join the NFL (MLB, NBA, whatever) when they've never learned to manage smaller amounts of money? >>



Most of them not, but it's a completely different contract, both socially and fiscally; it's not relevant to the argument.

edited to add: and oddly enough, at about age 22, the majority of folks have developed all of their respective synapses.