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QE Forever?

derrybderryb Posts: 36,025 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 20, 2021 9:15PM in Precious Metals
Will the FED announce another buying spree before year end? While they may call it something else, I believe they will have to add to the kitty.

The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

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Comments

  • OperationButterOperationButter Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    No brainer imo.

    Yes
    Gold is for savings. Fiat is for transactions.



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  • JulioJulio Posts: 2,501
    Gut says, yes.
    image
  • mariner67mariner67 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭
    No.
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  • vprvpr Posts: 604 ✭✭✭
    No. With bond yields dropping, I'm sure they realize that the law of diminishing returns is working. The problem with adding liquidity is that the money doesn't trickle down to the people who need it. It is spent on expensive houses, coins, stocks etc. The average person on the street is still having a hard time getting credit. Mortgage rates have gone back above 4%. No more easing for now. I'm sure when the economy tanks again, they'll have to print again but I don't see that happenning this year.
    References: Too many to list. PM for details. 100% satisfaction both as buyer and seller. As a seller, I ship promptly and keep buyers updated.
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1. The federal govt borrows 40cents of every dollar it spends. If LOLthe FED does not provide
    the 40cents, who will? I'm looking around for hands being raised. None. Oh, maybe your
    retirement account. LOL
    2. Hey, how about them student "non performing" loans? Federal govt guarantee on those puppies.

    Just wait til the SHTF on this little charade. 2-5 years. Take cover. Incoming.
    Have a nice day
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In the back of my brain I keep wondering what "they" have up their sleeve when
    the new and improved $100 bill comes out shortly

    All "they" would have to do is either completely or gradually demonitize the old benjis.

    Can you just imagine the flood of cash reentering the USA? That would be one way to jumpstart Main Street

    Good idea to thoroughly rinse the residue off before making a depositimage
    Have a nice day
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I see no reason for more QE but Bernanke has disappointed me in the past. Still, I'll vote no more QE this year.
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No more QE's. And it appears, that bond prices are beginning to think so also.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll believe the $85 billion/month in QE will continue into next year.
  • CoulportCoulport Posts: 1,087 ✭✭✭
    Same game.
    Different name.
    The most money I made are on coins I haven't sold.

    Got quoins?
  • tneigtneig Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
    I thought they could do it at will now, ongoing, maybe without the requirement to announce anything?
    COA
  • ksammutksammut Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭
    Yes, more QE. Our debt and deficit are not going away. We need a lot more than a wishing and a hoping to stop QE.
    American Numismatic Association Governor 2023 to 2025 - My posts reflect my own thoughts and are not those of the ANA.

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  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I feel pretty safe in saying "yes - there will be more QE".
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • SpoolySpooly Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭
    Tapering... the FED needs to wind down its spending.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

    In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
  • COALPORTERCOALPORTER Posts: 2,900 ✭✭


    << <i>I'll believe the $85 billion/month in QE will continue into next year. >>



    Me too, but I doubt they will increase it or come out with another plan to run
    along side this one.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes.... they will continue... it props up the banks. Cheers, RickO
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, it channels money to the banksters and makes us debt slaves image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To infinity...and beyond.
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭✭✭
    they will start to real it back in, although slower at first.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,203 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Of course they will. There's an election next year and the Dems need all the help they can get.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No. Tapering is the desired course from what Im gathering. We don't need blunt force trauma to add to the hyper inflation coming down the chute for all of our fiscal irresponsibility.
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭
    I doubt they'll start a new program.
    When they reduce to 85B per month the markets will react and they'll keep some level going for longer, it won't be a cold turkey ending.
    They'll cut it some to make the point that they created improvements but they'll keep the bulk of it going so things stay stimulated.
    Ed
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,329 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>No brainer imo.

    Yes >>

    image
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,025 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "If the Fed reduces its purchases of Treasuries and mortgages, interest rates will no doubt start rising from their artificially low levels." - Richard Ebeling, senior fellow at the American Institute for Economic Research in Great Barrington, MA and professor of economics at Northwood University in Midland, MI.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,501 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>"If the Fed reduces its purchases of Treasuries and mortgages, interest rates will no doubt start rising from their artificially low levels." - Richard Ebeling, senior fellow at the American Institute for Economic Research in Great Barrington, MA and professor of economics at Northwood University in Midland, MI. >>



    And that would be a bad thing?
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,025 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>"If the Fed reduces its purchases of Treasuries and mortgages, interest rates will no doubt start rising from their artificially low levels." - Richard Ebeling, senior fellow at the American Institute for Economic Research in Great Barrington, MA and professor of economics at Northwood University in Midland, MI. >>



    And that would be a bad thing? >>


    Bad thing for anyone (such as Washington) who is very dependent on borrowing money. A rise in interest rates will create a rise in spending for DC (higher taxes to fund more interest on the debt) and will also create inflationary pressures. The last thing the taxpayer needs is higher prices and higher taxes. This is why many believe the FED is indefinitely committed to QE.

    Keep in mind that when taxes alone can't satisfy the politicians' thirst for spending, the economic environment becomes fertile for Cyprus-like wealth confiscation on top of the current Washington-like dollar destruction.

    However, a good thing, though painful, as far as resolving runaway spending (debt) by those who can't print their way out. Our last worthwhile economic leader (Volker) proved that. I'm all for higher rates (determined by the market and not the bankers) as long as it reigns in federal spending and borrowing. Unfortunately it won't as long as Washington has paper and ink.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>"If the Fed reduces its purchases of Treasuries and mortgages, interest rates will no doubt start rising from their artificially low levels." - Richard Ebeling, senior fellow at the American Institute for Economic Research in Great Barrington, MA and professor of economics at Northwood University in Midland, MI. >>



    And that would be a bad thing? >>



    It needs to happen. Slow (very slow) increases will be the first step in letting us know where we really are. It has to happen sometime.....
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    We've already seen what happens when the perpetual increases in spending are ever-so-slightly decreased. Mind you, federal spending is still increasing quite rapidly but the hue and cry coming from all corners of the federal bureaucracy because of a slight decrease in the rate of increase was enough to become notoriously known as "sequestration" (as if anything was somehow being held back).

    Taper is a joke.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,501 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>We've already seen what happens when the perpetual increases in spending are ever-so-slightly decreased. Mind you, federal spending is still increasing quite rapidly but the hue and cry coming from all corners of the federal bureaucracy because of a slight decrease in the rate of increase was enough to become notoriously known as "sequestration" (as if anything was somehow being held back).

    Taper is a joke. >>



    Personally, I havent seen any impact of this sequester thing.

    And, the 10yr IS going to 4%, and the US economy will BOOM. Not Ka-boom, but expand, and do so quite nicely.

    Can someone please provide the math behind what a rise in the 10yr to 4%, from the current 2.20%, actually means in the total number of dollars needed to fund the debt? Would it cost an addition trillion, 2 trillion, 5 trillion?

    While your at it, please compute the additional dollars that would flow into savings accounts as a result of savers being able to get higher yields.

    How much of this additional income would flow into the economy, thus providing jobs, higher taxes revenues, ect?
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can someone please provide the math behind what a rise in the 10yr to 4%, from the current 2.20%, actually means in the total number of dollars needed to fund the debt? Would it cost an addition trillion, 2 trillion, 5 trillion?

    1.8% x $16,500,000,000,000 = $297,000,000,000 annually, or $24,750,000,000 monthly. You're right, it's peanuts. Assuming that 10yr is the average debt maturity.

    While your at it, please compute the additional dollars that would flow into savings accounts as a result of savers being able to get higher yields.

    Good question. I'd say not many. It depends on what the real interest rate is. (10yr rate minus rate of inflation).

    How much of this additional income would flow into the economy, thus providing jobs, higher taxes revenues, ect?

    Higher interest rates will always compete with every company's IRR and plans for expansion or capital reinvestment. Rising rates always put a lid on company growth. It's not like the government, where you can just order up a souffle' of new dollars by the hundreds of billions.

    Your questions indicate that you think there is no impact from massive government debt. However, there is an impact. We are feeling the effects now, and we will continue to feel the effects for a long time in this country. The quality of jobs is declining and so is the middle class. You want fries with that?
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,025 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is a very big difference on the affect to the economy by dollars created through printing vs. dollars created through production.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,025 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,025 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, years later it appears QE is forever and we now know why.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What has that got to do with QE? I believe if you go back to the beginning of time, (for homo sapiens ) that has always been the case, except maybe under Stalin in the Soviet Union. It takes money to make money & the top 5 - 10% most certainly have it, while us bottom dwellers only have a limited amount. B)

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,294 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just bought more bitcoins. Who cares about QE'z?

    I don't know about evolution but from most of what I've witnessed we better start going backwards.,,,,,because we jacked this place all up. So sad profit is what trumps life. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What’s QE got to do with inequality? I don’t think it has anything to do with “it takes money to make money”.

    I think it has more to do with “keep changing the rules and keep skimming off the top” while keeping the herd calm with reassuring and soothing official reports and massaged data.

    Gee, I hope that doesn’t sound too negative.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,025 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OPA said:
    What has that got to do with QE? I believe if you go back to the beginning of time, (for homo sapiens ) that has always been the case, except maybe under Stalin in the Soviet Union. It takes money to make money & the top 5 - 10% most certainly have it, while us bottom dwellers only have a limited amount. B)

    Duh, have you even considered the possibility that the exploding wealth gap is a result of monetary stimulus? Do you really believe stimulus floated all boats. Wanna buy some swampland?

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • chesterbchesterb Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don’t even know what QE is!

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    QE now, QE forever!

  • meluaufeetmeluaufeet Posts: 746 ✭✭✭

    2022 about a year from now YES.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,501 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @meluaufeet said:
    2022 about a year from now YES.

    Why do you feel there will need to be more QE next year?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • meluaufeetmeluaufeet Posts: 746 ✭✭✭

    YoY comps

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,203 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @meluaufeet said:
    2022 about a year from now YES.

    Why do you feel there will need to be more QE next year?

    @cohodk said:

    @meluaufeet said:
    2022 about a year from now YES.

    Why do you feel there will need to be more QE next year?

    It's an election year and the House and Senate are up for grabs. Stimulating the economy will help the party in power. Both political will do this.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • carew4mecarew4me Posts: 3,459 ✭✭✭✭

    Depends on Joe BuyThems approval rating. If it dips below %50 then more bread will be thrown to the crowd.


    Loves me some shiny!
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,501 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @cohodk said:

    @meluaufeet said:
    2022 about a year from now YES.

    Why do you feel there will need to be more QE next year?

    @cohodk said:

    @meluaufeet said:
    2022 about a year from now YES.

    Why do you feel there will need to be more QE next year?

    It's an election year and the House and Senate are up for grabs. Stimulating the economy will help the party in power. Both political will do this.

    So the stimulus of the last year, which has overwhelmed the supply chain due to excessive demand, will need to be expanded to further the disruption of the supply/demand equation?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 5,300 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd wager shutdowns disrupted the supply chain, not stimulus. I know that's what affected ours and my construction buddys say the same. Stimulus is just coincidental timing, not a reason.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,025 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2021 5:32AM

    @DrBuster said:
    I'd wager shutdowns disrupted the supply chain, not stimulus. I know that's what affected ours and my construction buddys say the same. Stimulus is just coincidental timing, not a reason.

    Stimmy has been keeping supply system drones on the couch. Supply issues are not limited to material. They include people who produce and move material. Without working people there is no chain. Less working people equals weaker supply chain.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • RobMRobM Posts: 527 ✭✭✭

    @derryb,
    Yep. Last week my local grocery had not a single banana. There is no increase in demand for bananas. The banana truck never came because some Chiquita was on the Dole. Truck drivers, in particular, are in deficit. Older drivers retire and younger would-be drivers are discouraged by forecasts of obsoletion of human operated trucks.

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Was there a mad rush and bidding war in everyone's desperation to hoard and store stacks of bananas? That was probably the last truck of bananas🍌 ever!

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • dorkbardorkbar Posts: 425 ✭✭✭

    My buddy drives back and forth from Madison to Minneapolis every day and makes $75K a year. Home nights. Says he never engages his brain, and all he does is hook up and unhook trailers. Yet nobody can muster the resolve to get a job. SMH.

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